Rumor: "AMD [...] is building Navi for the Sony PS5"

Bashteee · Jun 12, 2018

Interesting read fromWCCFTECH: (<- link to full atricle)

Lisa packaged the graphics department neatly into Radeon Technologies Group and gave control of that to Raja Koduri, but at the same time devoted 2/3rds of the talent on-hand for RTG to develop the next semi-custom solution – which was Navi for Sony. The P&L of RTG was also not handed over to the group head and that meant they were effectively left with 1/3rd of the engineering talent devoted to making a graphics card for gamers and almost no control over their own finances.

Bad news for PC gamers though:

Navi 20 is the GPU that you are waiting for and will be a true high-end gaming GPU manufactured on the 7nm process by AMD. The downside? it won't be coming anytime soon. In fact, our source stated it could take as long as 2021 before it sees the light of day.

Navi 10 (mainstream) is expected to hit 2H of 2019 or early 2020. The story seems plausible to me, but it is WCCFTECH, so take it with a hugh grain of salt. Nonetheless, if it's true, NVIDIA will have virtually no competition for an even longer time.

Postpone me to 2021 if old.

Kolbe1894 · Jun 12, 2018

That doesn't sound anything new.

Deleted member 721 · Jun 12, 2018

I don't think 2021 for ps5 Will happen, with ALL this talk about next gen by Bethesda and v Microsoft

X1 Two · Jun 12, 2018

It's why we have been saying from the beginning that a PS5 in 2018 or 2019 is impossible.

GhostTrick · Jun 12, 2018

X1 Two said:
It's why we have been saying from the beginning that a PS5 in 2018 or 2019 is impossible.

Why ? I doubt PS5 will feature Navi 20. More like Navi 10.

Gemüsepizza · Jun 12, 2018

X1 Two said:
It's why we have been saying from the beginning that a PS5 in 2018 or 2019 is impossible.

How is it impossible? Navi 10 seems to be out next year and is rumored to have Vega 64 performance. That's probably what they are going to use for PS5.

franklyshankly · Jun 12, 2018

Find it very hard to believe AMD would wait until 2021 to compete on the high end, but god help us if so.

Nintendo Switch · Jun 12, 2018

Eylos said:
I don't think 2021 for ps5 Will happen, with ALL this talk about next gen by Bethesda and v Microsoft

MS announced Scorpio/One X's existance two years and 4 months before its release, which puts the next Box at Fall 2020.

There's no way the guy would know that Navi 20 will not be ready for 2020.

I would bet Navi 20 is targeting a 2020 release along with the PS5 and Xbox Infinity.

Daschiel · Jun 12, 2018

GhostTrick said:
Why ? I doubt PS5 will feature Navi 20. More like Navi 10.

If we go by previous events, perhaps I'll be a Navi 15, all features from 10 and more upgrades from 20, but not fully there. Again, if we go by story isn't that what happened with the PS4?

nekomix · Jun 12, 2018

Isn't Koduri at Intel right now at the helm of their graphics division? That's a huge thing to miss it.

Edit: Just read the link, he states that. So nice speculations but why prioritise only Sony and not MS? Only because more PS4 ?

Jessie · Jun 12, 2018

I don't see how this points to 2021 for PS5. They're not going to ship it with a super high end card. Navi 10 seems likely.

PS5 Pro might use Navi 20.

Bony Manifesto · Jun 12, 2018

Nintendo Switch said:
MS announced Scorpio/ One X two and a half years before its release. So 2021 is not a stretch.

One and a half years.

Deleted member 35598 · Jun 12, 2018

2021 ? That would be such an opportunity for Microsoft and Nintendo.

Microsoft can have 1 or 2 years start and they would need big time in order to change things.

And Nintendo had pretty much one complete gen ( 4 years ) until the PS5. They can bring the Switch succesor the same year or a year after easily.

2021 ? I don't see that happening.

ethomaz · Jun 12, 2018

AMD didn't focus in high-end GPU market anymore... that is not news... they focus only in mainstream like Polaris first.

Said that yeap... PS5 and Next Xbox chip are being developed at full pace inside AMD... these machines will release late 2019 or late 2020.

VirtuaRacer · Jun 12, 2018

Nintendo Switch said:
MS announced Scorpio/One X's existance two years and 4 months before its release, which puts the next Box at Fall 2020.

Microsoft announced Scorpio at E3 2016. It released in 2017.

Daschiel said:
If we go by previous events, perhaps I'll be a Navi 15, all features from 10 and more upgrades from 20, but not fully there. Again, if we go by story isn't that what happened with the PS4?

The article says that "Navi 14 will follow Navi 10 soon after." So yes, similar to what transpired with PS4, you can bet that Mark Cerny is working with AMD directly to shape the chipset.

gofreak · Jun 12, 2018

The article says PS5 is 'expected' in 2020. Whether that's something they heard, in terms of what AMD is targeting, or just their own guesswork, I'm not sure, but they seem to be saying that that's the timeline AMD is working on. edit - reading more, it seems that is what they hear AMD is working toward, that this is the deadline Sony's given them.

I think it's also interesting that PS5 seems to be the main driver for Navi development. The suggestion is that AMD's discrete GPU business isn't what dictates semi-custom work anymore, but the other way around now.

Navi 20 is a 2021 part, apparently. Navi 10 a 2019 part. So if this is all true, I guess PS5 is a Navi 10 bump-up or Navi 20 scale-down, depending on how small Navi 10 is, or commensurately how big Navi 20 is.

Elandyll · Jun 12, 2018

X1 Two said:
It's why we have been saying from the beginning that a PS5 in 2018 or 2019 is impossible.

PS5 wouldn't be Navi 20 (high end, expensive) though, more like Navi 10.

So if anything, it reinforces 2019/2020 imo.

ethomaz · Jun 12, 2018

X1 Two said:
It's why we have been saying from the beginning that a PS5 in 2018 or 2019 is impossible.

The article supports a 2019/2020 release.

Now 2018? This year? Well that was just impossible.

Yerffej · Jun 12, 2018

Nintendo Switch said:
MS announced Scorpio/One X's existance two years and 4 months before its release, which puts the next Box at Fall 2020.

There's no way the guy would know that Navi 20 will not be ready for 2020.

I would bet Navi 20 is targeting a 2020 release along with the PS5 and Xbox Infinity.

MS announced Scorpio a year and change out. Not two.

SolidSnakeUS · Jun 12, 2018

Gemüsepizza said:
How is it impossible? Navi 10 seems to be out next year and is rumored to have Vega 64 performance. That's probably what they are going to use for PS5.

If they can pull Vega 64 performance by the end of 2019, then fucking bravo Sony. Honestly, I am expecting the next system to come out by the end of 2019, as it fits in line with the 6 year console life before a new one. But I don't think this is a bad thing, as the architecture is still x86, everything should be easily BC.

Fisty · Jun 12, 2018

Navi 10 sounds like it will be ready for 2019. They arent going to put the cutting edge, fresh-out-of-R&D tech in a $399 box. PS5 will probably have some features if 20 but itll be 10... 2019 makes sense

Meelow · Jun 12, 2018

I want Switch 2 to use this just so we can have Nintendo say "Hey...Listen Navi's back!"

Sid · Jun 12, 2018

I wonder what the nextbox will use?

Bung Hole · Jun 12, 2018

How much TF are we talking about here with Navi

ffvorax · Jun 12, 2018

I expect PS5 to be revelead next year and coming in 2020, not before, not in 2021 (looks too late)... so probably will have not the Navi20 but Navi10, that is also plausible considering the cost...?

inspectah · Jun 12, 2018

Navi is supposed to come out in H1/2019 and will be a midrange chip (hypothetical RX 680) like Polaris.
(Source (german): https://www.3dcenter.org/news/gerue...rsten-quartal-2019-mit-einer-midrange-loesung )

Speculation by Leonidas of 3dcenter (very well informed):
- the midrange-solution should reach performance of a GTX 1170/2070 and uses GDDR6-RAM
- 4096 shaders on 200-250mm² die size are possible on the 7nm node (Polaris was 230mm²)
- performance of a Vega 64 (+X%) with the powerconsumption of a RX 480 (150W) should be possible

Also, this is their latest roadmap from Computex:

This article is also pretty interesting:
https://www.pcworld.com/article/327...early-gpu-releases-to-make-pcs-fun-again.html

uncleniccius · Jun 12, 2018

The thing is, Navi 20 seems unlikely, I'm guessing Navi 14 would be possible(?), and the article implies that this would be ready sooner.

gates2 · Jun 12, 2018

Yerffej said:
MS announced Scorpio a year and change out. Not two.

IIR it was closer to 2 years out: 1.5+ years is closer to two years

gofreak · Jun 12, 2018

ffvorax said:
I expect PS5 to be revelead next year and coming in 2020, not before, not in 2021 (looks too late)... so probably will have not the Navi20 but Navi10, that is also plausible considering the cost...?

This article says:

Navi 10 (2019, 'Vega' levels of performance)
Navi 14 ('soon' after Navi 10)
PS5 (2020, some Navi variant)
Navi 20 (2021, high end)

PS5 will be some Navi configuration, probably not precisely like any PC part, but probably in and around Navi 10 or 14 perf I'd guess. Depends though.

Fafalada · Jun 12, 2018

It'd be fun if one of the makers went intel x86 with AMD GPU setup. Just so we can have endless arguments about single vs. multithreaded CPU performance next gen - this one was way too boring with CPUs being practically identical :P

Hailinel · Jun 12, 2018

Navi?

An over-chatty fairy is going to be in the next PlayStation?

Yerffej · Jun 12, 2018

gates2 said:
IIR it was closer to 2 years out: 1.5+ years is closer to two years

One year and 5 months ish. My point is dude who I quoted said it was over two years. It wasn't close to that. That would be nuts.

gofreak · Jun 12, 2018

Fafalada said:
It'd be fun if one of the makers went intel x86 with AMD GPU setup. Just so we can have endless arguments about single vs. multithreaded CPU performance next gen - this one was way too boring with CPUs being practically identical :P

Not to start probably misleading speculation, but if Sony is the main driver/consumer for Navi development, it does beg the question of where a MS contract fits in.

But maybe the author of the article doesn't have the full picture. Maybe 'Sony' is just shorthand for consoles in general, and both MS and Sony will be Navi clients. Or maybe MS is targeting a very different timeframe - by the sounds of it, Navi is using the bulk of AMD's engineering resources, so I'm not sure they could be developing another completely different solution simultaneously for another client. If MS is going AMD, and going for a similar timeframe, presumably it would have to be something Navi-based.

5Twist · Jun 12, 2018

gates2 said:
IIR it was closer to 2 years out: 1.5+ years is closer to two years

I think it's closer to 1 year than 2 years. However, when Microsoft announced the Scorpio, they dedicated a video for its announcement. For the XB2, it was just a brief shoutout during the conference.

Hate · Jun 12, 2018

nekomix said:
Isn't Koduri at Intel right now at the helm of their graphics division? That's a huge thing to miss it.

Edit: Just read the link, he states that. So nice speculations but why prioritise only Sony and not MS? Only because more PS4 ?

That's basically all it needs. Doubt MS wouldn't get their own custom solution. Besides xbox is moving away from traditional consoles and starting to dabble into PC space.

Lagspike_exe · Jun 12, 2018

Fisty said:
Navi 10 sounds like it will be ready for 2019. They arent going to put the cutting edge, fresh-out-of-R&D tech in a $399 box. PS5 will probably have some features if 20 but itll be 10... 2019 makes sense

That's actually the principal way to design consoles. You take the latest, blessing edge, tech and then optimize the silicon footprint and TDP to pack it into a small box. That way, you get all the latest performance optimizations and features while having the same amount of transistors.

PLASTICA-MAN · Jun 12, 2018

I hope they can still wait to 2021 for the best combo power/price. they don't need to rush it like the PS4 Pro.

StevieP · Jun 12, 2018

Mainstream-Navi for next year is definitely a product that has its fingers and toes in consoles.

BubblegumNemesis · Jun 12, 2018

Îf it won't see the light of day before 2021 it won't be for any console. Hardware cycles don't work like that. There are other components to consider that have to work with this. This isn't a lego kit.

1.21Gigawatts · Jun 12, 2018

Ex-Actarus said:
2021 ? That would be such an opportunity for Microsoft and Nintendo.

Microsoft can have 1 or 2 years start and they would need big time in order to change things.

And Nintendo had pretty much one complete gen ( 4 years ) until the PS5. They can bring the Switch succesor the same year or a year after easily.

2021 ? I don't see that happening.

I dont think Microsofts newly expanded 1st party department will be fast enough to really capitalize on a significant headstart of next gen xbox over ps5.

Launching early doesnt do much when multiplats are cross gen and still held back by massive last gen userbase and exclusives arent ready yet.

Fafalada · Jun 12, 2018

gofreak said:
If MS is going AMD, and going for a similar timeframe, presumably it would have to be something Navi-based.

But Navi is a GPU part - and we already have real-world example of Intel building Intel CPU with a Vega? integrated. Ie. if Intel was hypothetically trying to "steal" a CPU contract they could go out of the way of taking the engineering overhead of integrating the parts (not saying I have any idea if that could ever be profitable for them - but we've seen stranger things than that in both PS2/XBox and PS3 era chip designs - both times crippling the pricing structure of one of the parties involved).

But I admit I'm just being selfish and want to see fanboy mudslinging entertainment it would inevitably result in.

StereoVSN · Jun 12, 2018

I can see PS5 come out in late 2019 as long as 7nm process is stable and GDDR6 is cheap enough to produce in sufficient quantity.

That said 2020 is probably more likely at this stage.

Deleted member 35598 · Jun 12, 2018

1.21Gigawatts said:
I dont think Microsofts newly expanded 1st party department will be fast enough to really capitalize on a significant headstart of next gen xbox over ps5.

Launching early doesnt do much when multiplats are cross gen and still held back by massive last gen userbase and exclusives arent ready yet.

A year headstart helped the 360 big time. And maybe Microsoft has deals in place with some 3rd party devs to bring exclusive content on the Next Xbox. That would leave time for the new studios to get up to speed.

gcwy · Jun 12, 2018

I mean, this is expected but the phrasing is weird.

Stilton Ferret-Tickler · Jun 12, 2018

gofreak said:
This article says:

Navi 10 (2019, 'Vega' levels of performance)
Navi 14 ('soon' after Navi 10)
PS5 (2020, some Navi variant)
Navi 20 (2021, high end)

PS5 will be some Navi configuration, probably not precisely like any PC part, but probably in and around Navi 10 or 14 perf I'd guess. Depends though.

Yeah, that's how I read the article. I've no idea why people are talking about the PS5 in 2021 and "head starts".

Anthony Hopkins · Jun 12, 2018

It would be interesting if
one went with a 7nm vega @ 14-16tflops and the other went with a 10-12tflop navi.

gofreak · Jun 12, 2018

Stilton Ferret-Tickler said:
Yeah, that's how I read the article. I've no idea why people are talking about the PS5 in 2021 and "head starts".

Yeah, I think the lead was buried a bit with the thread title here.

The bigger 'news' here is the repeated assertions in the article that 2020 is what AMD is working towards for PS5.

alr1ght · Jun 12, 2018

Are the CPUs supposed to be garbage in these new consoles?

behOemoth · Jun 12, 2018

Gemüsepizza said:
How is it impossible? Navi 10 seems to be out next year and is rumored to have Vega 64 performance. That's probably what they are going to use for PS5.

We really should keep our expectations in check. Vega perfomance could also mean to be shlightly less powerful than a VEGA 56 (TDP ~210W), which imo is still a pretty big boost compared to the PS4.

Sleve McDichael · Jun 12, 2018

PS5 and the next Xbox holiday 2020. No doubt about it.

Rumor: "AMD [...] is building Navi for the Sony PS5"

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