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Infiltration (SFIV, SFV fame) accused of domestic violence against ex-wife (out of TGS tournament)

Deleted member 37030

Banned
Dec 29, 2017
45
User Banned (1 month): Junior phase account attempting to rationalize domestic abuse
I really hope there are consequences to his actions if all of this ends up being true. The one year ban (or more) from the FGC should be a locked measure to this for sure. Still, I am not a big fan of all this "ban him forever" talk. What he did is inexcusable, but it is normally an action driven by lack of self-control/overridden by emotions; a factor that we have to take into account considering that we do not know anything about their relationship as well as (from what I read in the rumors) this being a common practice in their country. I am of the opinion that people can change and there should be a moment for him to reinsert himself in the community. Life-long banning and public shaming is too much IMO. It ruins his life completely with no chance of redemption.

EDIT: Just wanted after reading the above poster that there is a difference between racism and domestic violence. Racism is a belief inserted in someone's rationale, and should be dealt with life-long consequences. Domestic violence is an action that could have been brought by many different factors (for example: alcohol) that might occur in specific situations. All of this should be taken into account!
 
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dFORCE

Member
Dec 7, 2017
296
i like big butts said:
If the NFL doesn't want to do shit about domestic abuse while purposely black balling Kaepernick, that's on them. It shows you the values of the organisations that operate in the NFL, that they'd rather indefinitely ban a player who was protesting police brutality than properly deal with players who partake in domestic abuse. That's why a lot of people aren't watching the NFL, because their values are garbage.

Its up on the FGC to tell the world what their values are and what they stand for. Do they care about the behaviour of their players or does being good at video games trump all things.
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People are saying the FGC has problem based on the actions of a few top fighting game players and that's just dumb. They do not represent the entire FGC.

No one should compare the NFL to the FGC because the FGC is not owned by a group of people and there's no commissioner that's out there to watch over the league.
 
lvl 99 Pixel

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,705
dFORCE said:
People are saying the FGC has problem based on the actions of a few top fighting game players and that's just dumb. They do not represent the entire FGC.

No one should compare the NFL to the FGC because the FGC is not owned by a group of people and there's no commissioner that's out there to watch over the league.
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I feel like people have heard about "The FGC" in passing so many times and automatically assumed it was a singular entity rather than hundreds of local scenes.

I know the smash scene which is another entity in itself, being entirely grassroots and without any real unity or leadership has recently developed harassment policy and guidelines that individual TO's have all signed off on (despite one player threatening a defamation lawsuit). This is about the closest thing they have ever had to a governing body and its an opt in basis.
 

Deleted member 5596

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,747
Holgren said:
I really hope there are consequences to his actions if all of this ends up being true. The one year ban (or more) from the FGC should be a locked measure to this for sure. Still, I am not a big fan of all this "ban him forever" talk. What he did is inexcusable, but it is normally an action driven by lack of self-control/overridden by emotions; a factor that we have to take into account considering that we do not know anything about their relationship as well as (from what I read in the rumors) this being a common practice in their country. I am of the opinion that people can change and there should be a moment for him to reinsert himself in the community. Life-long banning and public shaming is too much IMO. It ruins his life completely with no chance of redemption.

EDIT: Just wanted after reading the above poster that there is a difference between racism and domestic violence. Racism is a belief inserted in someone's rationale, and should be dealt with life-long consequences. Domestic violence is an action that could have been brought by many different factors (for example: alcohol) that might occur in specific situations. All of this should be taken into account!
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Fuck this noise.

Domestic abuse doesn't occur on specific situations neither is just a matter of lack of self control.

Is something ingrained on their personality, is a need to have total control and power over their partner. A need to dominance and restrict their partner life and existence. And most of the time they enjoy exercising this dominance, and they will employ any means to accomplish it, either with physical or psychological punishment.

Domestic abusers aren't men that can't control their emotions or just drink too much. Read a bit about the actual issue before making such uninformed statements about it.
 
Valkerion

Valkerion

Member
Oct 29, 2017
7,243
Hmm... might be controversial opinion (question?) but I'll let it out anyway in regards to event bans.

In the case of event bans, I think its a bit brash and strange to simply ban him / others from public events because they did something wrong or terrible, in this case, in their private lives. In this instance, assuming the worst is real, part of my thinking is, one its no one elses business as its a public event. As long as the person is not a risk to the general public, are their personal horrible moments really anyone elses problem to the point they should not be allowed into public places? Given how large the FGC and in general all public events are with only this small handful of "stars" whos lives are visible, is it right to ban a single person, when a community in the thousands probably has multiple others in similar situations? You can't police everyone with a background check, so is this one case, away from the events in themselves as far as we know, worth a ban?

Now before I get my throat jumped down, my other bit of thinking is, if and when official statements and news stories drop about this, and everything turns out to be true, who would in actuality still support him publicly. Sponsors would drop him, -most- (lets face it there will always be some) people would stop following him as fans. Effectively the tournament career would be over. Communities generally seem to police themselves in this kinda way.

Guess what I'm really asking after that mess of a post above (sorry not sure exactly how I should explain it) is should players, no matter the community, be banned from events for their personal issues that wholly don't actually affect the events themselves? perhaps optics wise they do if they can be seen attending on player lists ect. but in past instances banned players returning after their year or so have always been low key participants with a watchful eye on them, things like no stream time, no promotion, and no sponsors ect.

Once again now! not asking if what he did should not be punished, and what not legally, just want to know the detailed reasoning for people asking for tourny bans so quickly, and what that would really do for him, the community at large, and the events themselves. Not against it, just curious since people are just saying ban him... and thats all. For me its not as simple as the people who start physical fights at events, verbal and physical threats, and more to the actual public.
 
Spaltazar

Spaltazar

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,105
From his Ex-Wife

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jett

jett

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,659
"You will answer for putting our client under stress."

Really. Eat shit Infiltration.
 
Jimnymebob

Jimnymebob

Member
Oct 26, 2017
19,636
Valkerion said:
Hmm... might be controversial opinion (question?) but I'll let it out anyway in regards to event
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I get where you're coming from, but you have to remember the Infiltration is one of the main faces of the scene, so he's almost a role model/face of the FGC.
You also have to keep in mind that this is primarily a way for him to make money, or a job effectively (I don't know if he's full time FGC or not). He's also a really good player, so the chances of him winning tournaments are extremely high.
 
Valkerion

Valkerion

Member
Oct 29, 2017
7,243
Jimnymebob said:
I get where you're coming from, but you have to remember the Infiltration is one of the main faces of the scene, so he's almost a role model/face of the FGC.
You also have to keep in mind that this is primarily a way for him to make money, or a job effectively (I don't know if he's full time FGC or not). He's also a really good player, so the chances of him winning tournaments are extremely high.
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Yeah I was thinking similar and agree. I can see places banning him out of just general saving face for the whole group or event. Like you said, if he enters something hes pretty likely to get a high ranking sponsors or not ect. Can't say I 100% agree for either side but would not fault anyone particularly for banning him I guess either.
 
janoGX

janoGX

Banned
Nov 29, 2017
2,453
Chile
Yeah, this will be a ban from CPT, and prolly CEO/EVO, after seeing that tweet by Tibber.

Also, please, don't reply to her about the topic in public, keep it to private messages or to yourself, Korean laws are very strict and you can mess up the case.
 
Mantrox

Mantrox

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,911
Surprising and disgusting news.
ANY person that Intentionally harms another should immediately be banned from these events.

I really couldn't care less if you seemed nice before or youre a great player. Go fuck yourself Infiltration, and don't come back.

Also, get your shit together South Korea.
 
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Mgs2master2

Mgs2master2

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,862
Doesnt infiltration have a tournament coming up for SFV (something TGS related?) I atleast heard that from another streamer on twitch who will be attending and live streaming it. Wonder if this is going to affect it or if this is the whole "You will answer for putting our client under stress." nonsense?
 
Hyun Sai

Hyun Sai

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,562
dFORCE said:
James Chen has cleared things up on twitter. Instead of attacking him, people should just ask what he actually means.
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That tweet was garbage, and he deserved to be called on it, hard. Luckily, he himself aknowledges that, deleting it, apologizing, calling it poorly written and being ashamed for it.
 
shinbojan

shinbojan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,101
Never like him to be honest.
Always seemed insincere, arrogant, perverted and juvenile.
Ofc, a lot of FGC adores people like that, so not that strange that guy is loved.

I don't hate him though. I hope that this is not true. Just would not be surprised if it is.
 
Xenosaga

Xenosaga

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,986
Mgs2master2 said:
Doesnt infiltration have a tournament coming up for SFV (something TGS related?) I atleast heard that from another streamer on twitch who will be attending and live streaming it. Wonder if this is going to affect it or if this is the whole "You will answer for putting our client under stress." nonsense?
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I think he is currently in Japan and is planning to participate on TGS tournament (which starts tomorrow). Will be interesting to see if he still competes tomorrow or back out after this blow up.
 

Seiez

Member
Oct 29, 2017
409
I think him being at tgs is doing him no favors I know that most of the Japanese players will be reserved about the topic and not mention it publicly. But I don't want to even think about the awkward situations for everyone at the event.

I really hope that no one is going to do something stupid to him, because it would distract from the case and could be used as a shield by his party and play up the victim role.
 
Freezard

Freezard

Member
Oct 28, 2017
688
Sea beat up a girl on stream and he was only banned for one season in Brood War so I can see Infiltration getting a one year ban.
 
Waffle

Waffle

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,823
I'm glad James Chen cleared things up. Good on him as the original tweet really came off badly.

I'm really surprised Infiltration is tweeting like usual. You'd think guilty or not, he'd at least just keep quiet until everything is worked out in court or something. This TGS CPT stream is going to be crazy if they put him on stream.
 
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Poised Turtoise

Poised Turtoise

Banned
Aug 29, 2018
1,089
i like big butts said:
For a lot of people, it isn't just about protecting your image. To quote The Specials song, "if you have a racist friend now is the time, now is the time for your friendship to end". I believe there is a moral imperative for people to actually stand up for what they think or know is right.

I bring up R Kelly and Bill Cosby because anyone with any degree of morality would push either party out of their lives, regardless of how long they knew either people or respected their creative output. Perhaps an easier example would be people like John Goodman willing to work with Roseanne despite her clearly racist behaviour over the years. The disappointing thing isn't Roseanne being racist, the disappointing thing were people tolerating it until her ship started to sink.

If Justin wants to talk to associate with Noel Brown, despite the man having a history of domestic abuse and sexual harassment documented on both video and police records, that's on him. But I aren't going to respect him for associating with Noel Brown even after beating his girlfriend and sexually harassing a convention goer. There's a clear line people have to draw when people engage in behaviour that impacts other innocent people, no matter how much time you spent in the company of said person.



That's you willing to give him a second chance. If you weren't willing to give him a second chance, there wouldn't be anything to think about.

We know he's probably going to be banned from professional events at this moment. The problem is that there is a contingent of people willing to handwave his transgressions because he's an entertaining personality who is really good at Street Fighter. If dealing with his transgressions is more important than the loss of his presence at fighting game events, then musing whether or not he could be allowed back at professional tournaments should not even be a thought.

You can be disappointed at his behaviour, you can be sad that you won't see him fight against other top pros. But to already think about "whether he should someday be let through doors into these tournaments or not"? No, there should be no question to this in the same way there should be no question with regards to how the NBA dealt with Donald Sterling.
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Letting him walk through the doors when his career opportunity is over isn't really giving him much of a second chance, like I said the FGC isn't Capcom. If he would even want to attend the events with the stigma now around him and not being able to compete in the pro tour, probably not. With the passing of time personally think everyone deserves a chance in some sense, though it'd probably be beneficial as a company not an individual for Capcom to ignore that belief with how things stand now and set an example with a lifetime ban, not everyone is going to take that second chance either, it isn't really verifiable until another bad thing happens, so probably for a pragmatic company trying to foster a healthy esport it doesn't work; not familiar with other sports and how it has worked there but can't image too hot by peoples reaction.The reason people like nice guy Chen are responding how they are though is because these guys where FRIENDS, Chen isn't some organization making a weighted decision, he is a public figure sure but not even a TO. Chen is some super empathetic dude who is clearly shocked and skeptical of a thread started on reddit that is willing to give his friend a second chance in a years time if he does some admittedly unverifiable soul searching. Expecting the entire community to condemn him on a personal level is a demand I don't think will go met even if Infil clearly needs to be disciplined legally and professionally

Personally wouldn't stay Noels friend or Infils friend it'd be too difficult to look them in the eye, I don't think Justin is a monster for making that decision and I won't think of people who come back around to Infil someday as a monster either. Couldn't have looked infil in the face again outside of a goodluck, not for a long long time if ever not even with a decade long friendship, but expecting everyone else to live up to ones own same moral imperative though, noot gonna happen, people have different different ideologies. Some people will see Infil is suffering even if self inflicted and want to help because that is all a type of person thinks about, some will think about their mom and be disgusted(probably most of us), some people have different compartmentalization abilities and just won't think about it as much at all....people are just different. You can judge them if you wan't, I'm not going to
 
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Poised Turtoise

Poised Turtoise

Banned
Aug 29, 2018
1,089
Relaxed Muscle said:
Fuck this noise.

Domestic abuse doesn't occur on specific situations neither is just a matter of lack of self control.

Is something ingrained on their personality, is a need to have total control and power over their partner. A need to dominance and restrict their partner life and existence. And most of the time they enjoy exercising this dominance, and they will employ any means to accomplish it, either with physical or psychological punishment.

Domestic abusers aren't men that can't control their emotions or just drink too much. Read a bit about the actual issue before making such uninformed statements about it.
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I mean it isn't always but it can be. Anecdotally at least I've known a few domestic abuse cases that weren't a part of some sort of established routine or attempt to control. The one a friend of mine was involved with was an emotionally unstable man baby that was incredibly selfish, when he did lash out at her it wasn't often, he'd be manic on some bullshit (not drugs just crazy), he was extremely insecure. Like literally as I was punching him this guy was crying saying he was sorry; he was not small! He could've fought! He really was sorry! very weird memory. When his girl left him he threatened to kill himself, and in general just no emotional stability, a huge ego, and a whole lot of weakness/frustration. It really was primarily him taking out insecurities on her I think or some weird shit like that. That is anecdotal though the weakest kind of evidence not saying it is normal or the usual case and who knows how that would have evolved if they were together longer then that year, just saying it does happen. Now I've also known another case like yours, Richard, where the entire relationship was making calculatingly making his girl feel like shit both emotionally and physically to further devalue her and make her feel worthless in the eyes of anyone but him so that he could further control and continue doing what he was doing. Honestly both where sickening but the latter I have no hope for, where as the first guy pops up in my head every once in a while

Maybe the latter is more likely and that might be Infil idk, for some reason the idea of a pro fighting game player wanting complete control in personal relationships makes sense to me but probably just doing my morning stretches
 
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Myradeer

Myradeer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,427
Canada
Top video gamer privilege. It has been historically been proven that being good at e-sports will earn you fanatic fan base that will defend everything; at very minimum, there are far more "lets wait and see" attitude against the bandwagon unlike what outrage against other celebrities would entail.
 
OP
OP

真棒!

Banned
Nov 24, 2017
649
Myradeer said:
Top video gamer privilege. It has been historically been proven that being good at e-sports will earn you fanatic fan base that will defend everything; at very minimum, there are far more "lets wait and see" attitude against the bandwagon unlike what outrage against other celebrities would entail.
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Personally from my point of view, it seems most people are very angry at Infiltration and the lack of communication. I don't think people are defending infiltration per say, but wanting more proof which is perfectly reasonable.

However within the last few hours his wife tweets and him not being able to compete in the TGS tournament, it's hard to not jump to the conclusion that yeah, he did something wrong.
 

Deleted member 4461

User Requested Account Deletion
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,010
Myradeer said:
Top video gamer privilege. It has been historically been proven that being good at e-sports will earn you fanatic fan base that will defend everything; at very minimum, there are far more "lets wait and see" attitude against the bandwagon unlike what outrage against other celebrities would entail.
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Chris Brown is still making music, man

College football players get away with rape

All fandom does this. Difference is this - when you hear about other celebrities, the law has already gotten involved. So they may actually get sentenced.

Esports? Our trials are on Twitter.
 

Deleted member 5596

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,747
Poised Turtoise said:
I mean it isn't always but it can be. Anecdotally at least I've known a few domestic abuse cases that weren't a part of some sort of established routine or attempt to control. The one a friend of mine was involved with was an emotionally unstable man baby that was incredibly selfish, when he did lash out at her it wasn't often, he'd be manic on some bullshit (not drugs just crazy), he was extremely insecure. Like literally as I was punching him this guy was crying saying he was sorry; he was not small! He could've fought! He really was sorry! very weird memory. When his girl left him he threatened to kill himself, and in general just no emotional stability, a huge ego, and a whole lot of weakness/frustration. It really was primarily him taking out insecurities on her I think or some weird shit like that. That is anecdotal though the weakest kind of evidence not saying it is normal or the usual case and who knows how that would have evolved if they were together longer then that year, just saying it does happen. Now I've also known another case like yours, Richard, where the entire relationship was making calculatingly making his girl feel like shit both emotionally and physically to further devalue her and make her feel worthless in the eyes of anyone but him so that he could further control and continue doing what he was doing. Honestly both where sickening but the latter I have no hope for, where as the first guy pops up in my head every once in a while

Maybe the latter is more likely and that might be Infil idk, for some reason the idea of a pro fighting game player wanting complete control in personal relationships makes sense to me but probably just doing my morning stretches
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I mean... Both cases fits the mold of the domestic abuser, it doesn't need to be a constant lash out of violence, it could be mainly psychological, since they are very manipulative: like being sorry after a physical abuse episode or your example of "come back with me or I'll suicide" is to coarce the victim by being sorry or making her guilt to stay with him (control...).

And he will do the same with the next partners.

Domestic abuser doesn't need to be a gorilla that hits constantly his wife, yes, they can be extremely insecure, usually jealousy is part of the pack, or not mentally strong or physically strong for that matter. Abuse is a choice, if you do it, you are an abuser.
 
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