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Bishop

Member
Nov 1, 2017
74
lol the 3080 Ti is probably going to actually cost $3080
you are aware of the 2080 Ti's current price, are you not?
Yes, I already addressed it in all the previous replies.

Who knows, maybe the RTX 2080 ti was so successful and it outsold all their previous "ti" models that a price increase closer to the newer Titan RTX makes financial sense for Nvidia. We'll see what Nvidia has in stores once they announce it.
 

Yogi

Banned
Nov 10, 2019
1,806
Unacceptable? What were your expectations? It's the first time ray tracing has been available to the mass market. I was able to play Control with all RT settings at max, and with DLSS enabled, got great performance. Metro Exodus with its GI, you still get 30fps+. Wolfenstein Youngblood, the latest to get a RTX patch, from DFs video, has pretty good RT performance.

I'd say given the scope of ray tracing, and for a first attempt, it's gone pretty damn well.

50% performance hit for strongly limited raytracing where we might have to really study the before/after to see the benefits, where it sometimes does absolutely nothing, or even makes the IQ worse, while halving the framerate is not my idea of great performance.

They're marketing the tech before we're really ready for it. Just after they did a push for high framerate monitors - how am I supposed to put up with 30fps(!) now? I want double the raytracing performance with each new series.

And DLSS is separate to raytracing performance.

I think it's definitely how games used the technology. BF5 was a terrible example of using ray tracing. But several games have come out since then that showed good performance. Also DLSS has been showing very impressive results with recent titles.

I wouldn't say it's good performance but I agree we need to see more. But it is worrying, I've seen a few games now at the 50% for not all that much benefit considering the performance hit. We have no idea what Dyling Light 2's raytracing will take to pull off what they showed in the on/off still. They've delayed the game now too.

We need massive gains in raytracing. They introduced it now (too soon), so it's on them to back it up with the hardware to run it reasonably, relative to what we're getting from it. I know some are loving it and are excited for it (I am too) but halving the framerate is too much.

If it looked like a Pixar movie they can take all my frames, but it doesn't come close. Improve performance.

I'm glad lighting is getting more attention. I'm not happy with how limited performance is even on a 2080Ti. The 30XX series needs to do significantly better.
It's not like they're going to quickly improve the efficiency of the calculations for it, just how and where they use it. They need to improve the hardware significantly, performance as is, is unacceptable. People will hit the off switch to get back that performance, and there goes next-gen till 2024.
 
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BobLoblaw

This Guy Helps
Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,288
I'm not a fan of the 3080 Ti potentially be released later. Yeah, I know that's how it used to be, but I want the best non-Titan version ASAP. My 1080 is dying and I haven't had the courage to tell him yet.
 

J2d

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,140
RE2 doesn't actually need 12GB.
Even if it says so there it's never actually using any more than 6GB of VRAM at 1080P (add in about another gigabyte or so for 4K).

Additionally, all it does is cache the textures so that it doesn't have to stream from storage. The actual texture quality between lowest i.e. 0.5GB version of "High" and highest i..e. 8GB ver of "High" is exactly the same. Games these days probably have like 20-30GB of total asset data, doesn't mean you require that much VRAM because you never use all those assets at once and you are bound to swap out models and textures at distance for lower quality ones because it's a waste and it also introduces additional high frequency noise when there's too much detail in a small number of pixels (which is what happens when those assets are at a distance).

By the time we actually need more than 16GB of VRAM in PC games we'd have far faster cards. So in effect this card having 20GB of RAM now is only going to inflate the price of the card unnecessarily for something that is not going to be used until the card is outdated (in PC space). Especially considering RAM prices are going to be higher this year.
I had no idea, kinda feels like a bummer, I was looking forward to playing it again when I got a new computer but now it feels like Ive probably gotten the most out of it with my gtx1080 at 1440p outside of higher frames :/
 

Badcoo

Member
May 9, 2018
1,605
Nvidia coming out full swing against consoles huh. If it is 20GB then I think it's a good time to update the good ol gtx1080.
 

BeI

Member
Dec 9, 2017
5,974
All that VRAM on a single gpu seems overkill, and like it must add so much cost to a gpu. Is it ever gonna be a thing where a gpu can work with system memory at a reasonable speed? Wasn't there rumors of consoles even potentially being able to make use of the SSD as extra "RAM / VRAM"?
 

mario_O

Member
Nov 15, 2017
2,755
I would love if Nvidia released a non-RTX series. A GTX 3080Ti for 699. Those who want ray tracing can pay $1.500-1800 for the RTX 3080Ti.
Or maybe AMD will do this, release a high-end card with no ray tracing to compete with the RTX 3080Ti for a much decent price.
 

Riflen

Member
Nov 13, 2017
107
I would love if Nvidia released a non-RTX series. A GTX 3080Ti for 699. Those who want ray tracing can pay $1.500-1800 for the RTX 3080Ti.
Or maybe AMD will do this, release a high-end card with no ray tracing to compete with the RTX 3080Ti for a much decent price.

Such a move would be bad for business. Ray tracing in real-time is going to be the future. You absolutely want every GPU you sell to be capable of it, wherever feasible. Doing anything else suggests you are not confident in your own technology and confidence is very important when you're trying to get a whole industry to work with you on new techniques and tools.
 

Tovarisc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,404
FIN
I would love if Nvidia released a non-RTX series. A GTX 3080Ti for 699. Those who want ray tracing can pay $1.500-1800 for the RTX 3080Ti.
Or maybe AMD will do this, release a high-end card with no ray tracing to compete with the RTX 3080Ti for a much decent price.

There is no way in hell either of the companies ignore RT going forward. It's the future for dGPU's.

Sooner you accept that era of those super cheap high end cards is far, far, far gone better off you are.
 

Ricelord

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,466
"looks at the 3080 specs"
giphy.gif
 

mario_O

Member
Nov 15, 2017
2,755
Such a move would be bad for business. Ray tracing in real-time is going to be the future. You absolutely want every GPU you sell to be capable of it, wherever feasible. Doing anything else suggests you are not confident in your own technology and confidence is very important when you're trying to get a whole industry to work with you on new techniques and tools.
Well, Nvidia did release a couple of Turing gpu's with no ray tracing. Maybe they'll do the same with Ampere, and not just low end gpu's this time. After all, devs will continue to support a dual/hybrid solution for a long long time. I don't think will see a ray tracing-only game for more than a decade. Maybe more. Allowing people now to choose between speed or eye candy might be a winner for sales. If I was AMD I would definitely give people the option. I bet many would buy a 3080Ti level card for 699 and no ray tracing. Many people.
 

EroticSushi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,985
PLEASE don't have the 3080ti release later than the rest. I know it's a high probability but come on Nvidia.

AMD 4th Gen + 3080ti would make for a great combo upgrade.
 
Oct 27, 2017
490
As a reminder, the ray tracing structures are pretty vram intensive so far!

As someone who doesn't really understand any of this stuff on a technical level, does this mean that:

1. Ray tracing on the new consoles will be extremely limiting to everything else (frame rate, settings, etc.)?
2. The price of a 20 vram graphics card isn't as daunting as it sounds (not that the consoles will have 20, but will certainly need a somewhat large number there if ray tracing is that intensive to vram)?
3. The consoles will cost way more than the current thinking?

I don't suspect it's is as clean as any of the answers here, but seems like something would have to give.

Anyone can feel free to just say "you don't know what you're talking about" given that's likely the case, LOL.

Either way, I'm anxious to upgrade my 1070, this all sounds exciting (and expensive!).
 

Riflen

Member
Nov 13, 2017
107
Well, Nvidia did release a couple of Turing gpu's with no ray tracing. Maybe they'll do the same with Ampere, and not just low end gpu's this time. After all, devs will continue to support a dual/hybrid solution for a long long time. I don't think will see a ray tracing-only game for more than a decade. Maybe more. Allowing people now to choose between speed or eye candy might be a winner for sales. If I was AMD I would definitely give people the option. I bet many would buy a 3080Ti level card for 699 and no ray tracing. Many people.

I wrote wherever feasible. It was not feasible for the 16xx cards to have any meaningful ray-tracing ability.
I think your prediction about the first game requiring ray-tracing hardware being more than a decade away is way off. A would say 3 or 4 years on PC. Users don't have to choose between speed or eye candy and that's right now with current hardware.

It would be a bad move for Nvidia or AMD to do it, not only for the reason I already mentioned, but because GPU design is incredibly expensive and complex. You can't just laser off the 'ray-tracing' parts, because in Turing at least, the 'RT cores' are integral to the design of the processor. They're not cores at all and are just maths units inside the Streaming Multiprocessor. You'd have to design a totally different line of GPUs at great expense and at a detriment to you. Competing against yourself essentially.
 

chrominance

Sky Van Gogh
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,581
I like the people who are all "welp guess I'm not buying a 2060 Super" as if any of these cards will ever be $299 US.

Like, I hope the 3070 will be less than $1000 CAD but I'm not really holding my breath here.
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
I would love if Nvidia released a non-RTX series. A GTX 3080Ti for 699. Those who want ray tracing can pay $1.500-1800 for the RTX 3080Ti.
Or maybe AMD will do this, release a high-end card with no ray tracing to compete with the RTX 3080Ti for a much decent price.
Nvidia might as well set money on fire since they'll cannibalize their own products
 

mario_O

Member
Nov 15, 2017
2,755
I wrote wherever feasible. It was not feasible for the 16xx cards to have any meaningful ray-tracing ability.
I think your prediction about the first game requiring ray-tracing hardware being more than a decade away is way off. A would say 3 or 4 years on PC. Users don't have to choose between speed or eye candy and that's right now with current hardware.

It would be a bad move for Nvidia or AMD to do it, not only for the reason I already mentioned, but because GPU design is incredibly expensive and complex. You can't just laser off the 'ray-tracing' parts, because in Turing at least, the 'RT cores' are integral to the design of the processor. They're not cores at all and are just maths units inside the Streaming Multiprocessor. You'd have to design a totally different line of GPUs at great expense and at a detriment to you. Competing against yourself essentially.

I ment choose speed and no 'eye candy' aka ray tracing for a better price.
And I disagree with you completely. I'm sure a 699 "3080Ti" from AMD with no RTX would sell like hot cakes. Many people don't care about ray tracing, they just want play the latest games and are happy with baked lighting. And devs will continue to support baked lighting for a very long time.
 

mxbison

Banned
Jan 14, 2019
2,148
I remember being able to buy high end graphics cards as a student, now with a full time job I have to settle for 3rd or 4th best lol.

Probably going for the 3070.
 

TooBusyLookinGud

Graphics Engineer
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
7,939
California
Unacceptable? What were your expectations? It's the first time ray tracing has been available to the mass market. I was able to play Control with all RT settings at max, and with DLSS enabled, got great performance. Metro Exodus with its GI, you still get 30fps+. Wolfenstein Youngblood, the latest to get a RTX patch, from DFs video, has pretty good RT performance.

I'd say given the scope of ray tracing, and for a first attempt, it's gone pretty damn well.
Guess people don't know how new technology works. I have a 2080 Ti and there nothing unacceptable about RTX right now. Shit is super demanding and the fact that it runs as well as it does is amazing.
 

DeaDPooL_jlp

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
2,518
I only just built my first gaming PC 4 months ago featuring a 2070 super and a i7-9700k with a 1440p monitor. I assume I should be good for 2-3 years, but its exciting to be able to be involved in these types of discussions now and look forward to what's next.
 

Yogi

Banned
Nov 10, 2019
1,806
Guess people don't know how new technology works. I have a 2080 Ti and there nothing unacceptable about RTX right now. Shit is super demanding and the fact that it runs as well as it does is amazing.
Guess people don't want to feel buyers remorse.

"Shit is super demanding" is the reason we need way better RTX performance.
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
I ment choose speed and no 'eye candy' aka ray tracing for a better price.
And I disagree with you completely. I'm sure a 699 "3080Ti" from AMD with no RTX would sell like hot cakes. Many people don't care about ray tracing, they just want play the latest games and are happy with baked lighting. And devs will continue to support baked lighting for a very long time.
AMD sure as shit ain't gonna sell a card that can't do things consoles can for a higher price
 

Yogi

Banned
Nov 10, 2019
1,806
LMAO, my 2080 Ti has been great for my needs - I could have easily returned it. I have no buyers remorse and plan on buying the 3080 Ti.
I'm glad it's serving you well for a year or two but I won't be upgrading quite that often.

I need at least double the RTX performance from the 30XX series.
 

Isayas

Banned
Jun 10, 2018
2,729
Probably the introduction of Ray Tracing and Nvidia thinking it would be enough to justify the price with only 11GB VRAM and other minor improvements. Plus the competition from AMD, MAYBE, they will likely bring the ti to reasonable prices.

Oh right. I think I might cop the 30 super series due to myself buying the PS5 and LGCX Television and stuff.
 

pulsemyne

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,635
I think the new cards will come in at 10gigs with the Ti maybe at 20. Quadro is more likely the 20 gig part though.