Rumor: Riddler, Catwoman, Firefly, and the Penguin will be the villains for "The Batman." [EDIT: Two-Face and Mad Hatter may be in]

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,789
Hey, let's start with....one?
Batman Begins had three. Ra's, Falcone, Scarecrow

The trick is to not make every one a central villain like Spiderman 3 or the Schumacher movies tried

Have one be the main antagonist, the others be supporting characters. In Batman Begins, Ra's and the League were the main antagonists, the mob existed to further Bruce's development (ie the criminal element he didn't understand), Scarecrow was a secondary threat that tied back to the League as the larger threat
 

Rvaan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,464
Oh haha I didn't watch Suicide Squad so I didn't know anyone verbally mentioned a Robin. Then yeah, maybe we're actually inching towards including one of the Robins.
Oh it wasn't verbal. It was on her intro flash screen and if you blinked you missed it.
 

max.rem

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Oct 25, 2017
4,720
U.S.
Or they won't even acknowledge that he was any sort of father because he has the emotional capacity of a 12-year-old or some nonsense.
If they include Dark Victory. I usually only hear people talk about The Long Halloween as a stand-alone instead of in conjunction with its sequel.
It's odd how Dark Victory is rarely acknowledged. Like Long Halloween, it's got lovely artwork. I love Tim Sale's Robin.

All I've ever wanted from a live-action movie is a story that focuses on Batman and Robin's relationship. Dick's origin story would be ideal; but fan's hate live-action origins stories so what do I even know? IMO, The Bat-family will always be the best part of the Batman character.
 

Soj

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Oct 27, 2017
3,281
If it's actually a detective story, there has to be multiple suspects.
 

Orwell

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Jun 6, 2019
220
So it's a retread of the horrible Schumacher films. However capable of an actor he is, Pattinson is not Batman, certainly not in the way Bale or even Affleck were. This film is shaping up to be a pass.
 

♡♪!?

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Oct 25, 2017
3,106
Zac Efron - Riddler
James Corden - Penguin
Emilia Clarke - Catwoman
Shia Lebeouf - Firefly

Perfect casting for ERA!
 

More_Badass

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Oct 25, 2017
15,789
Riddler as the main antagonist is like the perfect villain to use if you want to present Batman as a detective. That's a promising sign.
 

Lakeside

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Oct 25, 2017
3,569
This sounds like one of those movies that has a terrible script so they are throwing the kitchen sink in.
 

8byte

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,494
Kansas
Oh wow, I was REALLY hoping that they'd include villains we've seen dozens of times over the course of the last 20 years! HOW EXCITING!

This is why I'll always love Batman Begins the most. It at least had newer villains in the spotlight. There's so much there, I really don't want to see these people...AGAIN. Firefly is cool, but won't get much attention with the rest of this cast. At least it doesn't have the Joker in it.
 

Pau

Self-Appointed Godmother of Bruce Wayne's Children
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Oct 25, 2017
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It's odd how Dark Victory is rarely acknowledged. Like Long Halloween, it's got lovely artwork. I love Tim Sale's Robin.

All I've ever wanted from a live-action movie is a story that focuses on Batman and Robin's relationship. Dick's origin story would be ideal; but fan's hate live-action origins stories so what do I even know? IMO, The Bat-family will always be the best part of the Batman character.
Besides Dick Grayson inclusion, Dark Victory feels very similar to The Long Halloween. I'm actually not a fan of Jeph Loeb's writing in general. Hush, The Long Halloween, and Dark Victory all smash together in my memory. Tim Sale's art is amazing though. The splash page of everyone looking down at Dick's parents and Bruce looking up at Dick is one of my favorite panels of all time.

100% agreed with the bolded. I would cry if they announced a Dick origin story that takes its cues from Robin's Reckoning, Dark Victory, and the various other retellings we've gotten in comic and animated form.

So it's a retread of the horrible Schumacher films. However capable of an actor he is, Pattinson is not Batman, certainly not in the way Bale or even Affleck were. This film is shaping up to be a pass.
How do you know this without seeing the movie?
 

Rickelodeon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
93
normal movies typically have more than 4 characters

Im not sure what the worry is in this case just cause they're "bad guys". they're probably all gonna be connected somehow, and i doubt firefly gets more a role than just being a henchman for a 5 min setpiece or w/e

Best batman stories in comics/cartoons etc. usually have multiple villians anyways
 

El D

Member
Sep 20, 2018
1,420
Riddler could be a great recurring villain for a series of Bat films, especially if they lean into stuff like his Zero Year interpretation.

So it's a retread of the horrible Schumacher films. However capable of an actor he is, Pattinson is not Batman, certainly not in the way Bale or even Affleck were. This film is shaping up to be a pass.
"So it's a retread of the horrible Schumacher films. However capable of an actor he is, Ledger is not Joker, certainly not in the way Nicholson or even Hamill were. This film is shaping up to be a pass."
 

Dysun

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Oct 25, 2017
1,890
Miami
Firefly will be a goon and dealt with quickly. It's really the Penguin/Riddler show and Catwoman as an ongoing female lead. I trust Reeves to balance them out
 

SArcher

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Oct 26, 2017
1,868
I thought rewriting the script for years was usually a strong sign of a bad script.
Not necessarily, if it's done before actual production begins. So many scripts are rushed and then the principal photography is a mess as a result. In this case I think the script could be really solid.
 

Tabaxi

Member
Nov 18, 2018
823
Catwoman is going to be in the ally role and Firefly is likely taking the henchmen role, so that only leaves Penguin and Riddler as main villains, which is completely manageable.

Also, it's not like Penguin or Riddler have to be villains. Penguin has been a neutral party in the comics before, acting as an informant for Batman, and face-turn detective Riddler was probably the most interesting he's ever been.

So, while this looks like a lot on paper, it's fine as long as they keep the focus on one or two villains, with the rest being side characters/minion.
 

Saucycarpdog

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,366
Could work. I mean The Dark Knight had 3 villians in the movie. Firefly will probably be the throwaway villain and Catwoman will be the romantic interest.

The question is how they're gonna make Riddler and Penguin fit together.
 

max.rem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,720
U.S.
Besides Dick Grayson inclusion, Dark Victory feels very similar to The Long Halloween. I'm actually not a fan of Jeph Loeb's writing in general. Hush, The Long Halloween, and Dark Victory all smash together in my memory. Tim Sale's art is amazing though. The splash page of everyone looking down at Dick's parents and Bruce looking up at Dick is one of my favorite panels of all time.

100% agreed with the bolded. I would cry if they announced a Dick origin story that takes its cues from Robin's Reckoning, Dark Victory, and the various other retellings we've gotten in comic and animated form.


How do you know this without seeing the movie?
Yeah, i'm not the biggest fan of Jeph Loeb but he seems to team up with Tim Sale quite often and it's given us some beautiful moments like the one you referenced.

Using Robin's Reckoning as reference point could work too if WB is too concerned about "mature" audiences who might turn their nose up at a child-aged super hero. Pattinson's Batman might seem too young to have an adult Robin/Dick Grayson, though.
 

adj_noun

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,963
They'll have to update this


Pretty...fishy what happened to me on that ladder. Where there's a fish there must be a penguin!

But wait! It happened at sea! Sea? C for Catwoman!

It all adds up to a sinister riddle...riddle-er. Riddler!

My favorite show got canceled last night. *snaps fingers* Firefly!
 

Teh_Lurv

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,868
I liked Telltale's interpretation of The Riddler in their Batman adventure game: A sadistic criminal whose riddles are combined with death traps out of The Saw franchise. Something like that could work in a Snyder-verse Batman film.
 
Oct 25, 2017
10,381
I mean it's not like you need to give equal time to every villainous character in a movie, especially Firefly who is very much a henchman character.
 

echoshifting

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,807
The Negative Zone
For those who don't know Firefly, he is the Rocketeer but as a pyromaniac. He's great.

These are villains picked to highlight Batman's skill as a detective. Here's my guess for the first act. Investigating Firefly's arson crime scenes will be how he first hooks up with Gordon. I bet we don't see Firefly at first and Batman is the one who realizes that the odd clues they've been finding indicate their arsonist can fly. This investigation leads him to Penguin, established crime boss, but even though they know he's connected to Firefly, the cops can't touch him. So Gordon sends in Batman. That's how you do early Batman without doing all the training, make it mostly Gordon's perspective at first. Also if they don't set a big battle with Firefly in the Iceberg Lounge, they are crazy. I don't know how you can have Firefly and Penguin in the same movie and not do this, so I bet it happens.

Then Riddler as the main villain in the second and third acts. Gordon and Batman working together to solve the riddles and take him down.

Not sure how Catwoman fits, but doing her arc as a three-movie thing is the smart move. Only way to do the character justice imho.
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,789
Could work. I mean The Dark Knight had 3 villians in the movie. Firefly will probably be the throwaway villain and Catwoman will be the romantic interest.

The question is how they're gonna make Riddler and Penguin fit together.
Penguin is the man with his ear to the underground. He's the devil Batman makes a deal with to get info on the Riddler. Like how Ethan Hunt will work with a smuggler or crime lord or whatnot to get a lead on his main target

Also Riddler's schemes could be messing up Penguin's revenue, so of course he wants that nuance dealt with.
 

UltraMagnus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,694
The Arkham games show this can work.

After the emphasis on "realism" in the Nolan films I'm kinda ready for a more ... "comic book-ey" Batman film. Not Joel Schumacher silly but again the Arkham games would be a good reference point.
 

Ziltoidia 9

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,167
Well, by putting them all in the movie, guess when they don't greenlight anything else, at least we will have seen them.
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,789
Not sure how Catwoman fits, but doing her arc as a three-movie thing is the smart move. Only way to do the character justice imho.
She's the femme fatale secretly working with Riddler to distract Batman, but who's also using the Riddler's schemes to suit her own ends.

Or maybe she's tracking down Firefly as well, for revenge, so she collides with Batman on that front
 
Oct 25, 2017
10,381
Penguin is the man with his ear to the underground. He's the devil Batman makes a deal with to get info on the Riddler. Like how Ethan Hunt will work with a smuggler or crime lord or whatnot to get a lead on his main target

Also Riddler's schemes could be messing up Penguin's revenue, so of course he wants that nuance dealt with.
Half the time Riddler is portrayed as a vindictive man-child so if this movie ended up being about some war between Riddler and Penguin that is brewing I wouldn't even be surprised