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blitzblake

Banned
Jan 4, 2018
3,171
Hold on, 1.2tf for the s vs 6tf for the x... I wouldn't say performance is 5 times better? So what we talking here, something that's slightly less than x2 of the x in performance?

Maybe teraflops aren't great at being compared like I have just done? people are pooping their britches over that 12 number.
 

Yogi

Banned
Nov 10, 2019
1,806
Unless something changes drastically, the equivalent card on PC will cost the same as the whole console!

It will cost you closer to double to get the same specs on PC. Before it was 1:1 on release.
 

DLbeast

Member
Feb 11, 2019
54
What id like to know, is on a scale for measuring purposes: We move into new-gen. How will the Xbox One X scale compare to Lockhart? With moving to a new-gen, and games being made for ps5/Scarlett( next-gen family eco-systems).....how will Xbox One X fair compare to Lockhart?

In my mind, it seems outside of some tech jargon, and lack of SSD, and Ram issues, it doesn't seem unfathomable for next-gen games, where Xbox X might not be too far compromised. Would Xbox One X now be considered comparable to Lockhart, or would it fair much worse than what i am considering?

I just am having a hard time not seeing Xbox one x as the comparable entry point, but no longer bottlenecked by this gen, far as capabilities not truly rendered( maybe I am overlooking the significance of its architecture).

Upgrade the SSD of an Xbox One X, what would i truly miss vs Lockhart? Anaconda a different story, but my focal point is Lockhart since it is attempting to be the cheap entry point, vs the Xbox One X for NEXT GEN comparisons.
 
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ShadowFox08

Banned
Nov 25, 2017
3,524
What id like to know, is on a scale for measuring purposes: We move into new-gen. How will the Xbox One X scale compare to Lockhart? With moving to a new-gen, and games being made for ps5/Scarlett.....how will Xbox One X fair compared to Lockhart?

In my mind, it seems outside of some tech jargon, and lack of SSD, and Ram issues, it doesn't seem unfathomable for next-gen games to now be too far compromised. Would Xbox One X now be considered comparable to Lockhart, or would it fair much worse within the ecosystem?
GPU is probably going to be the same/similar in performance to lockheart after taking new architecture efficiency. CPU will be much better than current gen.
 

ShadowFox08

Banned
Nov 25, 2017
3,524
Aiming 1080/30fps for anaconda/ps5 post 2020 is like aiming for 480p for Xbox x, no sensible developer would do that.
And why can't they remove the ray tracing and SVOGI for Lockhart in your example?
Ray tracing on a console equivalent to 6 TFLOPs isn't worth it outside of minecraft and current gen games imo. If anaconda ends up being 4k ray tracing then lockheart can be 2k w/out ray tracing
 

DLbeast

Member
Feb 11, 2019
54
GPU is probably going to be the same/similar in performance to lockheart after taking new architecture efficiency. CPU will be much better than current gen.

What will be the misses vs gains in this? I guess a better question: If we fast-forwarded 2 -3 years from now, and we have the ability to play a fully developed next-gen game meant for Scarlett ecosystem. What would the average Joe be missing on Xbox One X vs Lockhart with those games? Is it tangible or will it be that noticeable?

For the record I'm a console whore, so I'm getting anaconda on day one, as I will a ps5, however, I'm just wondering how will it be for those who hang on to Xbox One X a few more years longer. Will those console owners even notice the difference vs Lockhart on their tv screens?
 
Last edited:
Sep 19, 2019
2,274
Hamburg- Germany
I don't really get the purpose of the 4TF one?

It is a cheaper option to play next gem games on mostly lower resolution and some other things adjusted down to make it run properly. It ensures to transmit as many players as possible really fast. The main reason for it might be to keep GamePass subs happy as the support for old Gen will stop at some point inevitably.
 

DLbeast

Member
Feb 11, 2019
54
It targets those who want to play Xbox One games on a next generation console but don't care about 4K graphics and want a cheap console.

hmmmm
I think thats sort of where the perception problem with Lockhart comes from. Other than saving money on using the same chips as anaconda, SSD...........is it really doing anything different overall than what an Xbox one x can do?

It seems an awful lot like redundancy.

They could almost reskin Xbox one x, change the name, add an SSD drive and be about there for cheaper if you ask me. Handles current-gen in 4k, but downsamples next-gen, and sell it for 200-249 bucks next year?

Am i crazy?
 
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bananas

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,857
Xbox One X was designed to run Xbox One games at 4K. Hence a 6TF GCN GPU was needed to effectively do that.

Lockhart is designed to run Project Scarlett games at 1080p. Hence a 4TF RDNA GPU is adequate to achieve that.

Lockhart has major improvements in CPU, RAM, and SSD compared to Xbox One X, that developers can't just scale down to it the same way you can on Lockhart.

That's not to say it's a flip of a switch to get your Scarlett game on Lockhart, it will require the developers to do extra work, but it will be much, much simpler than porting it to the Xbox One X.
 

DLbeast

Member
Feb 11, 2019
54
It is a cheaper option to play next gem games on mostly lower resolution and some other things adjusted down to make it run properly. It ensures to transmit as many players as possible really fast. The main reason for it might be to keep GamePass subs happy as the support for old Gen will stop at some point inevitably.
Xbox One X was designed to run Xbox One games at 4K. Hence a 6TF GCN GPU was needed to effectively do that.

Lockhart is designed to run Project Scarlett games at 1080p. Hence a 4TF RDNA GPU is adequate to achieve that.

Lockhart has major improvements in CPU, RAM, and SSD compared to Xbox One X, that developers can't just scale down to it the same way you can on Lockhart.

That's not to say it's a flip of a switch to get your Scarlett game on Lockhart, it will require the developers to do extra work, but it will be much, much simpler than porting it to the Xbox One X.

Good answer.
 

Bitch Pudding

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,202
Xbox One X was designed to run Xbox One games at 4K. Hence a 6TF GCN GPU was needed to effectively do that.

Lockhart is designed to run Project Scarlett games at 1080p. Hence a 4TF RDNA GPU is adequate to achieve that.

that's the joke, there won't be any dedicated Scarlett-only games in the foreseeable future, at least not from MS' 1st party devs since they are tasked to fill that GamePass pipeline with content.
 

bananas

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,857
that's the joke, there won't be any dedicated Scarlett games in the foreseeable future.
Support for Xbox One architecture will be dropped at some point, most likely within the first two years. Relying on XB1X as a long term low cost console is not feasible. The goal with Lockhart is to get as many people on to the newer architecture as possible.
 

Bitch Pudding

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,202
Support for Xbox One architecture will be dropped at some point, most likely within the first two years.

not according to Matt Booty from Xbox:
"When Scarlett launches there will still be the Xbox One S out there, there will still be Xbox One X, and we really need to approach that family of devices, the same way we approach PC - content scales to meet the device. I think that's going to be the case for anybody. We will absolutely lean in on the power of Scarlett, we think is going to be the best way to play and it will be the best thing you can put in your living room, but we also want to understand that there will be a family of Xbox devices out there."

 

christocolus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,932
Xbox One X was designed to run Xbox One games at 4K. Hence a 6TF GCN GPU was needed to effectively do that.

Lockhart is designed to run Project Scarlett games at 1080p. Hence a 4TF RDNA GPU is adequate to achieve that.

Lockhart has major improvements in CPU, RAM, and SSD compared to Xbox One X, that developers can't just scale down to it the same way you can on Lockhart.

That's not to say it's a flip of a switch to get your Scarlett game on Lockhart, it will require the developers to do extra work, but it will be much, much simpler than porting it to the Xbox One X.
It is a cheaper option to play next gem games on mostly lower resolution and some other things adjusted down to make it run properly. It ensures to transmit as many players as possible really fast. The main reason for it might be to keep GamePass subs happy as the support for old Gen will stop at some point inevitably.
well said.
 

Black_Stride

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
7,389
I don't really get the purpose of the 4TF one?

Im guessing you never saw the purpose of GPUs below the XX80ti cards?

Some people are happy playing at 1080p - 1440p but want the benefits of the new architecture....so instead of getting a xx80ti you get xx70 or xx60ti.
Xbox One Ss still sell even when the Xbox One X is out.
 

Deleted member 20297

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
6,943
Resolution is usually the most talked about, because it's easy to as advertise. Theres so much that can be configured that affects performance besides resolution.

Look at the "optimized xbox one x settings" for Rdr2 for PC per Digital foundry. Some of those settings are lower than the lowest settings available on PC, because Rockstar were able to scale to the hardware accordingly.

ZrwEdoL.png


Per DF,
Changing Lighting Quality from Ultra -> Medium gave them a 14% performance increase. That's one setting alone.

Changing reflections from Ultra to their optimized X1 settings gave them between a 11 - 17% increase in performance.

Changing shadows from Ultra to their optimized X1 settings gave them a 7% increase in performance.

Theres are settings like anistrophic filtering and texture quality that barely change performance, with texture quality affecting vram usage, but when people talk about scalability in game development this is what they mean.
I will take the chance to use this post as what some people here still don't want to see for whatever reason - resolution is the biggest performance chunk on the GPU usually.
index.php


index.php
index.php


As we can see by DF, yes, there are even more things that you can scale back but the easiest thing to gain performance back is to scale down the resolution.
I don't know why this is even a question, there are hundreds of benchmarks out there supporting this.
And no, there will hardly be games targeting 1080p on Scarlett or PS5.
 

Renovatio

Member
Oct 23, 2019
33
I'm really intrigued where this leaves Xbox One X owners like me.
The question: What Xbox One X could give us in the future, what MS will do with Xbox one X.

Is so simple to say "support for 2 years" and then make a Lockhart to sell new generation console for less money than Anaconda. Goodbye Xbox one X, you've never shined and now you can rest in piece.
 

PLASTICA-MAN

Member
Oct 26, 2017
23,620
Big infos from this French Journalist:



He says that that he heard from many well informed sources in the industry that the Scarlett will have an original design, something like a cylinder because it will pack a voice assistant so similar to Alexa and that they have been trying to implement such design for months now.
 

T002 Tyrant

Member
Nov 8, 2018
8,973
Big infos from this French Journalist:



He says that that he heard from many well informed sources in the industry that the Scarlett will have an original design, something like a cylinder because it will pack a voice assistant so similar to Alexa and that they have been trying to implement such design for months now.


Oh no, oh dear lord no. They're going to repeat the same shit with Xbox One aren't they? With the added disadvantage of having the adverts with "Hey Xbox" controlling Xbox people have at home aren't they?
 

ResoRai

Member
Nov 4, 2017
217
I will take the chance to use this post as what some people here still don't want to see for whatever reason - resolution is the biggest performance chunk on the GPU usually.
index.php


index.php
index.php


As we can see by DF, yes, there are even more things that you can scale back but the easiest thing to gain performance back is to scale down the resolution.
I don't know why this is even a question, there are hundreds of benchmarks out there supporting this.
And no, there will hardly be games targeting 1080p on Scarlett or PS5.
Resolution definitely taxes the GPU the most a majority of the time, but the user I quoted seemed to be under the impression that large performance gains couldnt be seen from anything other resolution changes, which is not the case.
 

nillapuddin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,240
Big infos from this French Journalist:



He says that that he heard from many well informed sources in the industry that the Scarlett will have an original design, something like a cylinder because it will pack a voice assistant so similar to Alexa and that they have been trying to implement such design for months now.


am01-10-inch-blue1.jpg


This is the real reason it will hit 12 TF, cooling isn't an issue, because it's an actual fan
 

Le Dude

Member
May 16, 2018
4,709
USA
I'm guessing Lockhart exist cause this thing going to be 600usd right out the gate

Yeah, I'm really hoping for that sweet $499 price point, but I would not be shocked in the slightest if the Anaconda was even as high as $699.

At this point my expectation is $599 for PS5/Anaconda and $399-499 for Lockheart. Anything less than that is just a bonus.
 

Kalasai

Member
Jan 16, 2018
900
France
Big infos from this French Journalist:



He says that that he heard from many well informed sources in the industry that the Scarlett will have an original design, something like a cylinder because it will pack a voice assistant so similar to Alexa and that they have been trying to implement such design for months now.


DON'T trust this man. it's a douchebag. It's a famous clickbait man.
 

christocolus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,932
Big infos from this French Journalist:



He says that that he heard from many well informed sources in the industry that the Scarlett will have an original design, something like a cylinder because it will pack a voice assistant so similar to Alexa and that they have been trying to implement such design for months now.

Lol. After the One S and the One X we are definitely getting another awesome looking console.
 

Yerffej

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,548
Big infos from this French Journalist:



He says that that he heard from many well informed sources in the industry that the Scarlett will have an original design, something like a cylinder because it will pack a voice assistant so similar to Alexa and that they have been trying to implement such design for months now.

Um, I'm gonna say no to all of that. Just no.
 

NippleViking

Member
May 2, 2018
4,488
Hold on, 1.2tf for the s vs 6tf for the x... I wouldn't say performance is 5 times better? So what we talking here, something that's slightly less than x2 of the x in performance?

Maybe teraflops aren't great at being compared like I have just done? people are pooping their britches over that 12 number.
The vast majority of the OneX's extra power is put toward the substantial resolution increase. While most XB1S games run at 900p, which is 1600*900 or 1,440,000 pixels, most OneX games run at or around 4K, which is 3840*2160, or 8,294,290 pixels. That's a 5.76 times difference, which is roughly in-line with the 5 times greater GPU.
 

Bitch Pudding

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,202
I'm really intrigued where this leaves Xbox One X owners like me.

XBOX One X players emphazise playing on the strongest hardware available, now don't they? So, most XBOX One X players will probably switch to Anaconda very fast.

Now, there might be other XBOX One X owners out there. People who thought they'd be save with this piece of hardware in the forseeable future and are now totally surprised by MS Scarlett annoucement (...).
Well, in this case I've got good news for them, because as I mentioned above, they'll still be able to play every XBOX exclusive in that very forseeable future. In fact, besides maybe some ray-tracing based indie-titles by 3rd parties, Scarlett owners won't get any exclusives. And according to Matt Booty, PS5 users probably won't, too. I don't share that opinion with Mr. Booty, but that's what he said.
 

NippleViking

Member
May 2, 2018
4,488
Big infos from this French Journalist:



He says that that he heard from many well informed sources in the industry that the Scarlett will have an original design, something like a cylinder because it will pack a voice assistant so similar to Alexa and that they have been trying to implement such design for months now.

Many will balk at this because it's a feature that not purely for gaming, but I think it's a great idea. The hardware's all there, and microphones are very cheap, so it wouldn't affect price much, and for MS would be an incredibly clever way of creating an 'Alexa but for your entertainment area'. The main application of it will obviously be for media use (Netflix, Spotify, Youtube, etc.), but there'd definitely be scope for interesting implementations in gaming.