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Running ERA |OT| Off the couch into a new ERA

Oct 28, 2017
2,383
They seem to cover a certain range of weight (9.3, 8.6, 10.0, 10.9 oz, respectively) and the Hoka has a lower drop (5mm vs 8-10-10), so it depends of what you're looking for and what drop you're used to (I wouldn't go straight for a 5mm one if I only ran in 10mm before) and to what you want to use them for (long run? speed session ? Road ? Trail ?) how long you expect them to last and what brand/model you've been confortable with so far.

For race day and performance the Boston 7 seems like the obvious choice, otherwise... it's up to you :p

Check runningwarehouse to see details about each of these shoes
Just road running. Uses Pegasus 35, NB1080V6 and some lunarepic flyknits. I don't really mind about the brand but feel a bit put off by the nikes as the sole wore fast. I like the Boston's and would like to use them for training and fast 10ks / 5ks
 

r3s

Member
Feb 6, 2018
101
I've been concentrating on setting some quicker times for shorter distances too. My best 5k now stands 22:30, and 10k is now 50:16. Both of which I know I can nudge down even further fairly easily. Feeling very positive about it all!
Awesome. Hopefully you can keep up the consistency and those times will surely drop.
 
Oct 26, 2017
114
pbsapeer, I just wore the reissue of the Hoka Clifton 1 for my Marathon yesterday. They went well and I did a pb of 3:15:20, crushing my 3:20:00 target and knocking off over 6 minutes of my previous pb. The Clifton 1 is light enough to race but cushy enough for slow recovery runs. Surprisingly stable on corners given the high stack. It's a good all-rounder that I'd buy again if they last 500+ km, though they look ridiculous and don't have second eyelet at the top for lock lacing (I've figured something out to give me the heel lockdown I like though). These are the only Hoka's I've tried.

Yesterday's Marathon was a blast, with torrential rain, sunny hot periods and relay runners on the mix on an undulating course on a summer's morning. Went out way too hot and lost 9 minutes in the second half, but finished 19 of 130 and 3rd in the 40-49 year old men (of 14). Won a couple of glass platters and got a kettle for spot prize. My buddy also got his target of sub 3:20 and our social group put in a relay team that came in third (of the mixed teams). A great road trip to the Westcoast via Lewis and Arthur's Pass.
Congrats on the PR! I've heard a lot of good things about the "new" Clifton 1's. I really liked the 3's but I haven't run in any other Hoka's. Mostly Nike and Skechers these days.

Still trying to get rid of the extra weight I put on over the holidays and get my stamina back. Going to focus on shorter races through the spring with the Frederick Half Marathon in May. Had a bad go of it in 2017 so I really want another crack at it since I know I can do much better. Still undecided on a fall marathon though I'm leaning towards the Marine Corps Marathon again.
 
Oct 27, 2017
744
How do you guys cope with running on a treadmill? I've been gifted a 2 month gym membership and I'm taking the opportunity to strengthen my upper body and core. However I'm also trying to integrate some shorter runs as a warm up to speed things up and to avoid multiple showers a day, etc. Pfitz has a lot of sub 8k runs in the first weeks of the base building program, but treadmills simply are unbearable. Even a 5k which takes about 25 minutes at general aerobic pace for me feels incredibly long and boring. There's TV and YT built into the treadmill, so entertainment is not really the issue. It's just the bad air and never changing environment. Any tips?
 
Oct 27, 2017
898
Paris
Not really.
Some are able to deal with it more easily but for others it will always be more boring than running outside.
It has the added benefit of controled environment, you set the pace you want to go at and that's it, you also can have your drink at any time without struggling and even upping the pace for interval is much easier to do.

But it's boring, there's no changing that, running around a track can also be so it's really up to anyone how to deal with that.

The worst part for me is the heavy sweating unlike running outside (unless it's in the summer), granted I've only done treadmill exclusively for a few months last year and have been enjoying outside runs ever since.

If I were to give a tip it's just to enjoy it as a different form of running, leasure outside running is pretty different from track running, which is different from tempo running which is different from interval running, running in the city also is different from running in a wood/trail, treadmill is just another way to practice your hobby so try to have as much variety as possible both in running overall and while running on a treadmill (with speed variation, doing a 3km cycle of 2km at 11.5km/h then 1 at 13km/h might be more enjoyable than just 3km at 12km/h)
 
Oct 26, 2017
114
How do you guys cope with running on a treadmill? I've been gifted a 2 month gym membership and I'm taking the opportunity to strengthen my upper body and core. However I'm also trying to integrate some shorter runs as a warm up to speed things up and to avoid multiple showers a day, etc. Pfitz has a lot of sub 8k runs in the first weeks of the base building program, but treadmills simply are unbearable. Even a 5k which takes about 25 minutes at general aerobic pace for me feels incredibly long and boring. There's TV and YT built into the treadmill, so entertainment is not really the issue. It's just the bad air and never changing environment. Any tips?
I just try to insert what variety I can, like changing speed or incline during commercial breaks. Other than that, there's not much I think you can do. I try to view dealing with the boredom as sort of a mental workout.
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,383
I hate treadmill running. It's awful. It's never got enough of a breeze from fans and the air is stuffy.
The only time I do it is if I'm traveling abroad and don't know the area.
 
Oct 27, 2017
744
Thanks for the tips, I'll try the 8k tomorrow and if it sucks even harder than the last time I will bury the treadmill idea.

Got my new shoes (Asics DS trainer 23) and matching laces today and don't they look great:

 
Oct 27, 2017
744
Put my racing flats to the test this morning and got a 19:11 5k. Knocked 11 seconds off my pb. Getting there 😬😁
Nice, it goes over so quickly, but it still feels like you're dying the whole time, right? Do you recommend racing flats? Which ones do you wear? Have you worn them on anything longer than a 10k?
 
Oct 27, 2017
744
I used to for my training runs but learnt to not bother.
Yeah the aches and pains stuff is weird. My knee is suddenly feeling weird and my ankle was sore earlier... Haha
I listen to podcast and audio books on long runs, that are boring otherwise. Your knee and ankle are fine, don't stress yourself.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,661
I would never listen to music in a race, you lose a lot of atmosphere and concentration imo.
I couldn't run without music. I need it mentally (because music's fun and all), but it also helps to keep a constant stride frequency / rhythm. - and i mix in some booster songs, that re-energize me mid run.

I do the relay (run) for the 70.3 IronMan and they don't allow headphones there and it's so super fucking boring.
 

r3s

Member
Feb 6, 2018
101
Nice, it goes over so quickly, but it still feels like you're dying the whole time, right? Do you recommend racing flats? Which ones do you wear? Have you worn them on anything longer than a 10k?
Pretty much dying from 500m to the end. Love a good parkrun or cheap 5k race. I use the Saucony Type A8. They're super fun to race in, but I'm probably still too solid to do anything over 10k in then. I don't wear then every time, just when it's ok conditions and I feel like having a go at lowering my pb. I like to have a pair of shoes just for race day (doesn't have to be flats), that are stupid light and encourage good leg turnover.

pixelation, have you tried foam rolling?
 
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Oct 27, 2017
744
Pretty much dying from 500m to the end. Love a good parkrun or cheap 5k race. I use the Saucony Type A8. They're super fun to race in, but I'm probably still too solid to do anything over 10k in then. I don't wear then every time, just when it's ok conditions and I feel like having a go at lowering my pb. I like to have a pair of shoes just for race day (doesn't have to be flats), that are stupid light and encourage good leg turnover.
They look amazing and I'm very curious to know how they feel on the foot. 167g would be a big step down from my Asics (200g). Maybe I'll get them closer to summer and my goal races as racing flats really don't seem to last a lot of miles and I would want to atleast run a few workouts in them first.

Who here runs on the daily and how do you avoid getting "Knots" on your calves?
Running daily without any breaks is reserved to obscene weekly miles and elite athletes. Most plans, even high mileage ones, do have one to two rest days a week. The body needs time recover.
Make sure to not put any workouts or harder runs on subsequent days and spread out the challenging runs throughout the weeks unless your training plan specifically requires it. For example Pfitzinger has elements of forcing you to run while exhausted or tired to build up resistances both mentally and physically.
Lastly, make sure to stretch before and after every run, find stretches that work for you and that target the muscles that are affected. I mix in two to three sessions of Yoga every week. There's plenty of example videos on Youtube, and in my experience those deep stretches help me feel fresher the next day.
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,383
Well it couldn't have gone much worse. Was doing about 4:08km splits until about 12km in and my knee went. Finished just under 2 hours. Had to walk the rest of the way and my knee is so sore fucking hell.
 
Oct 27, 2017
744
Well it couldn't have gone much worse. Was doing about 4:08km splits until about 12km in and my knee went. Finished just under 2 hours. Had to walk the rest of the way and my knee is so sore fucking hell.
Dang, stupid injuries. I wish I could say something to cheer you up.
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,383
Dang, stupid injuries. I wish I could say something to cheer you up.
Ha thanks. My wife is being a trooper and trying to keep me happy. Put a request in with private healthcare to see a physio so hopefully can sort it again. Just worried how long ill be out running for tbh.
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,219
Pretty much dying from 500m to the end. Love a good parkrun or cheap 5k race. I use the Saucony Type A8. They're super fun to race in, but I'm probably still too solid to do anything over 10k in then. I don't wear then every time, just when it's ok conditions and I feel like having a go at lowering my pb. I like to have a pair of shoes just for race day (doesn't have to be flats), that are stupid light and encourage good leg turnover.

pixelation, have you tried foam rolling?
No I have not tried foam rolling, you do that after a run?
They look amazing and I'm very curious to know how they feel on the foot. 167g would be a big step down from my Asics (200g). Maybe I'll get them closer to summer and my goal races as racing flats really don't seem to last a lot of miles and I would want to atleast run a few workouts in them first.



Running daily without any breaks is reserved to obscene weekly miles and elite athletes. Most plans, even high mileage ones, do have one to two rest days a week. The body needs time recover.
Make sure to not put any workouts or harder runs on subsequent days and spread out the challenging runs throughout the weeks unless your training plan specifically requires it. For example Pfitzinger has elements of forcing you to run while exhausted or tired to build up resistances both mentally and physically.
Lastly, make sure to stretch before and after every run, find stretches that work for you and that target the muscles that are affected. I mix in two to three sessions of Yoga every week. There's plenty of example videos on Youtube, and in my experience those deep stretches help me feel fresher the next day.
Oh I do rest on Saturdays and Sundays, I mean I don't run 5 consecutive days anymore (for almost a year now). But when I did I used to get some painful knots on my calves that just wouldn't go away so I dropped my running days from 5 -> 3 non-consecutive days.
 
Oct 27, 2017
744
No I have not tried foam rolling, you do that after a run?

Oh I do rest on Saturdays and Sundays, I mean I don't run 5 consecutive days anymore (for almost a year now). But when I did I used to get some painful knots on my calves that just wouldn't go away so I dropped my running days from 5 -> 3 non-consecutive days.
Did you stretch at all during that time? There's a free Blackroll app on the Appstore. Combine that with a cheap foam roll for the most cost efficient results. I got mine for 8 € at Aldi.
Some soreness is expected when running 5 or more days a week, especially with high mileage and workouts thrown in. However what you describe doesn't sound like it is in that ballpark.
Also be careful to increase mileage slowly and take off weeks with decreasing mileage once a month to minimize injury risk.
 

r3s

Member
Feb 6, 2018
101
pixelation, my routine is usually running 6 times a week with Monday's off, but I'll take an extra day off as required (I'll also do doubles - running morning and evening - during big mileage weeks). I'm not disciplined enough to foam roll regularly, but I make time for 30 minutes of rolling once a week and I do two yoga classes weekly (good for core, breathing, recognising imbalances and stretches). As Gandie mentioned, don't do a hard workout after a race or hard workout. And yeah, build in an easy week each month where time/intensity drops by 10-20% to allow the body to adapt. I've learned not to worry about pace at all on easy workouts (turn off auto-lap on the watch and only have the time showing) and just run for set time - some day's you're slow and others will be faster, but you'll know why. Still mostly injury free after 12 months of gradually increased mileage (blisters when I moved from running once a week to four times, two minor calf strains that needed 3 days rest from running to heal, and sore shins from a pair of shoes that lost all stiffness in the forefoot).

These are my go to for foam rolling techniques and things to remember (I don't bother rolling the ITB):
RC - rolling with injuries
RC - rolling mistakes
G - rolling, a runners guide
 
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Oct 26, 2017
2,219
Did you stretch at all during that time? There's a free Blackroll app on the Appstore. Combine that with a cheap foam roll for the most cost efficient results. I got mine for 8 € at Aldi.
Some soreness is expected when running 5 or more days a week, especially with high mileage and workouts thrown in. However what you describe doesn't sound like it is in that ballpark.
Also be careful to increase mileage slowly and take off weeks with decreasing mileage once a month to minimize injury risk.
I did perform basic stretching before and after running, maybe the problem was that I would train an additional 2 hours of boxing straight afterwards.
pixelation, my routine is usually running 6 times a week with Monday's off, but I'll take an extra day off as required (I'll also do doubles - running morning and evening - during big mileage weeks). I'm not disciplined enough to foam roll regularly, but I make time for 30 minutes of rolling once a week and I do two yoga classes weekly (good for core, breathing, recognising imbalances and stretches). As @Gandle mentioned, don't do a hard workout after a race or hard workout. And yeah, build in an easy week each month where time/intensity drops by 10-20% to allow the body to adapt. I've learned not to worry about pace at all on easy workouts (turn off auto-lap on the watch and only have the time showing) and just run for set time - some day's you're slow and others will be faster, but you'll know why. Still mostly injury free after 12 months of gradually increased mileage (blisters when I moved from running once a week to four times, two minor calf strains that needed 3 days rest from running to heal, and sore shins from a pair of shoes that lost all stiffness in the forefoot).
I will start doing the foam rolling exercises while I try and go back to running 5 days per week. I have no issues with stamina, my gas tank is quite good. It's the crappy knots that I tend to develop.
 
Oct 26, 2017
114
New shoe stuff! Nike Zoom Fly Flyknit and Skechers GOrun Razor 3 Hyper. Got to try the former on Friday and I though they were great. Really good energy return and midfoot strike to toe-off feels as effortless as anything I've run in. The latter seems like it will at least be a good short to medium distance racer. Hopefully the weather cooperates soon for a parkrun.
 

r3s

Member
Feb 6, 2018
101
New shoe stuff! Nike Zoom Fly Flyknit and Skechers GOrun Razor 3 Hyper. Got to try the former on Friday and I though they were great. Really good energy return and midfoot strike to toe-off feels as effortless as anything I've run in. The latter seems like it will at least be a good short to medium distance racer. Hopefully the weather cooperates soon for a parkrun.
Jealous emoji!!!
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,261
Germany
When I plan custom workouts with the Polar app, does the Polar watch "force" me to do that workout for the day, or can I line up a few custom workouts that I can do on what day I want? I had no time to get that deep into the web interface yet, but it appears that I cant create, like, 12 workouts in a row but have them just planed for specific days?
 
Oct 27, 2017
744
When I plan custom workouts with the Polar app, does the Polar watch "force" me to do that workout for the day, or can I line up a few custom workouts that I can do on what day I want? I had no time to get that deep into the web interface yet, but it appears that I cant create, like, 12 workouts in a row but have them just planed for specific days?
My chance to shine. Aside from a few UI/UX things I absolutely ADORE the Polar Flow interface and it is far superior to anything else I've tried when it comes to planning.
On my M430 you can simply scroll through upcoming days (and workouts) in the "Diary" tab in the main watch menu. So you can line up the workouts for specific days in the phone app or the more powerful web interface and do them in any order by selecting them on the watch. Caveat: You cannot run workouts that are scheduled for days that are in the past, so be mindful about that. It's very easy to drag and drop the workouts in the phone app.

I did perform basic stretching before and after running, maybe the problem was that I would train an additional 2 hours of boxing straight afterwards.
That could very well be it. Never did boxing, but I guess it is very intense for the legs with quick movements. Be mindful and don't overtrain!
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,261
Germany
My chance to shine. Aside from a few UI/UX things I absolutely ADORE the Polar Flow interface and it is far superior to anything else I've tried when it comes to planning.
On my M430 you can simply scroll through upcoming days (and workouts) in the "Diary" tab in the main watch menu. So you can line up the workouts for specific days in the phone app or the more powerful web interface and do them in any order by selecting them on the watch. Caveat: You cannot run workouts that are scheduled for days that are in the past, so be mindful about that. It's very easy to drag and drop the workouts in the phone app.
Thank you. I heard that there is also the possibility to create 20 favorite workouts, would that be a possibility to work around the problem with the missed runs? I basicly do 2x9 workouts, so thats in the margin
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,383
Noticeable improvement in my knee already today. Woke up in pain, used an ice pack on it and was getting a pain deep inside my knee socket. When I then got up after 20 minutes of icing it felt like my knee was seized up. Horrible feeling. Could barely walk up and down stairs this morning. In contrast I did some knee dips this evening with zero pain. I can still feel it pull a bit but it's already feelings better. Maybe I'll be back to a light run next week. Booked some physio already so hopefully can get some new strength exercises to do.
 
Oct 27, 2017
744
Thank you. I heard that there is also the possibility to create 20 favorite workouts, would that be a possibility to work around the problem with the missed runs? I basicly do 2x9 workouts, so thats in the margin
I use the favorite mechanic to quickly build my weekly plan. For example I have one favorite each saved with General Aerobic, Endurance, Recovery, ... heart rate requirements. To build my weekly plan I simply create a workout from a favorite, adjust the length of the run, set the date and save. I build my weekly plans in 1-2 minutes, save for interval work which takes a couple of clicks more.

That's the way favorites are supposed to be used. I don't think there's a way to directly start a favorite workout from the watch unfortunately.

Noticeable improvement in my knee already today. Woke up in pain, used an ice pack on it and was getting a pain deep inside my knee socket. When I then got up after 20 minutes of icing it felt like my knee was seized up. Horrible feeling. Could barely walk up and down stairs this morning. In contrast I did some knee dips this evening with zero pain. I can still feel it pull a bit but it's already feelings better. Maybe I'll be back to a light run next week. Booked some physio already so hopefully can get some new strength exercises to do.
Great to hear that you're feeling better. Maybe get the physio's/doctor's opinion first before running again? Just looking out for you.
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,383
I use the favorite mechanic to quickly build my weekly plan. For example I have one favorite each saved with General Aerobic, Endurance, Recovery, ... heart rate requirements. To build my weekly plan I simply create a workout from a favorite, adjust the length of the run, set the date and save. I build my weekly plans in 1-2 minutes, save for interval work which takes a couple of clicks more.

That's the way favorites are supposed to be used. I don't think there's a way to directly start a favorite workout from the watch unfortunately.



Great to hear that you're feeling better. Maybe get the physio's/doctor's opinion first before running again? Just looking out for you.
Yeah I will speak to them tomorrow and maybe have an appointment before the weekend. Will just take it easy for sure.
 
Oct 27, 2017
744
I love running. Was feeling down today (roommate moving up, other stuff), but I'm much better now after a quick easy run. Haven't missed a planned run in 3 weeks, such an amazing feeling to power through fatigue, lack of motivation with just discipline. I feel alive and amazing.
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,383
So doing some remote physio which is quite novel. Got some strength exercise to do for my hips and quads. My knee is absolutely fine now. Been walking this morning and no pain. Maybe the odd twinge but nothing painful. Will try a light run Monday morning to see how it is.
 
Oct 26, 2017
114
So doing some remote physio which is quite novel. Got some strength exercise to do for my hips and quads. My knee is absolutely fine now. Been walking this morning and no pain. Maybe the odd twinge but nothing painful. Will try a light run Monday morning to see how it is.
Glad the knee is doing better! Hope it goes well for you on Monday.
 
Oct 28, 2017
385
Are there any free training plans for sub 20 5k's? Been running for a little more than a year and kinda winged it without a plan but I can't seem to push it under 24 minutes.
 
Oct 27, 2017
744
Did my third long run today, because of a football match tomorrow. Finished the week with 48 kilometers, perfectly within the 10% per week increase. It was really cold, but at least that forced me to go pretty quick. Pfitzinger's long runs are far from the boring and slow ones I did in my training plan last year. They're a real workout and I dread the summer with longruns up to 26 kilometers. Next week is the last one without threshold work and I'm looking forward to getting some speed into my legs.
Also the brooks shoes have officially been relegated to gym duty, I keep getting knee pains after running with them. Maybe it'll get better with some more wear, but for now they're sidelined.

Are there any free training plans for sub 20 5k's? Been running for a little more than a year and kinda winged it without a plan but I can't seem to push it under 24 minutes.
All depends on your fitness level and natural talent. 5k is long enough that it doesn't require a lot of specific skill work to improve your time. I did a sub 19 5k last year while halfway through my (free) half marathon plan from runnersworld on about 35-45 km weekly. I did some light interval work (800/1600m intervals), but nothing specific to the 5k.

How much do you run right now? What's the fastest you can run 1k/1mile? Have you struggled with injuries in the past?