Running ERA |OT| Off the couch into a new ERA

Fliesen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,256
Got that sub 19 5k done and dusted at the local parkrun this weekend. The road to sub 18 begins. 😬
Congrats. I can't wait to get back to chasing those short distance milestones. My PB is a tight sub 20min 5k, like 19:54 or so.

Becoming more and more nervous about Sunday's Marathon...
 

harz-marz

Member
Oct 28, 2017
999
I'm currently training for the Belfast Marathon in early May this year and have had mixed results with my training. Currently up to 18 miles and doing this in a decent time but have had really bad knee pains following any long runs. I've been to a physio who I felt was useless, a podiatrist and also had a sports massage and I'm still having issues.

The Podiatrist told me my shoes didn't support me enough so I changed them a few weeks back to ASICS Kayano 25 and still having knee pains along with top of foot pain also. I run with a knee support on each knee which helps but after any long run I am usually in pain.

I have taken spells away from running for 3/4 days at a time to try and rest more also.

Any advice from anyone? I do stretch before and after runs as well as foam roll when I can. Before this marathon training I had been running 5k 4 or 5 times a week with no injuries at all.

Getting a bit down about it all, I really want to do this marathon!
 

Duebrithil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
177
I'm currently training for the Belfast Marathon in early May this year and have had mixed results with my training. Currently up to 18 miles and doing this in a decent time but have had really bad knee pains following any long runs. I've been to a physio who I felt was useless, a podiatrist and also had a sports massage and I'm still having issues.

The Podiatrist told me my shoes didn't support me enough so I changed them a few weeks back to ASICS Kayano 25 and still having knee pains along with top of foot pain also. I run with a knee support on each knee which helps but after any long run I am usually in pain.

I have taken spells away from running for 3/4 days at a time to try and rest more also.

Any advice from anyone? I do stretch before and after runs as well as foam roll when I can. Before this marathon training I had been running 5k 4 or 5 times a week with no injuries at all.

Getting a bit down about it all, I really want to do this marathon!
Knee pain is a complicated and often frustrating thing. If you have eliminated your feet as possible pain sources I'd look into hip/lumbar muscles as the cause of the pain. Maybe a biomechanical study would help in order to know if there is some hip/knee/leg asymmetry that is causing your pain.

Where exactly is the pain localised by the way?
 

harz-marz

Member
Oct 28, 2017
999
Knee pain is a complicated and often frustrating thing. If you have eliminated your feet as possible pain sources I'd look into hip/lumbar muscles as the cause of the pain. Maybe a biomechanical study would help in order to know if there is some hip/knee/leg asymmetry that is causing your pain.

Where exactly is the pain localised by the way?
Thanks for the reply! It can vary around knee but mostly around the knee cap but sometimes behind the knee too. It's actually kinda hard to pinpoint at times!
 

Duebrithil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
177
Thanks for the reply! It can vary around knee but mostly around the knee cap but sometimes behind the knee too. It's actually kinda hard to pinpoint at times!
Hmmm, it might be patellofemoral pain. I'm guessing some physical therapy exercises designed to strengthen the hip, buttock and knee muscles might help. I've also seen people use a knee band, but I don't know if it's really effective or more of a placebo thing.
 

pbsapeer

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,552
Hmmm, it might be patellofemoral pain. I'm guessing some physical therapy exercises designed to strengthen the hip, buttock and knee muscles might help. I've also seen people use a knee band, but I don't know if it's really effective or more of a placebo thing.
I agree with this. Normally knee pain is caused by your ankles or hips. If you've sorted the ankles and feet out it must be a hip issue. Should just do some hip flexor exercises and build it up from there.
 

harz-marz

Member
Oct 28, 2017
999
Thanks guys! I'll look up some hip exercises! Really getting stressed about my marathon so hope to be back running again soon.
 

GAMEPROFF

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,548
Germany
Are the M430 synccable that Polar sells in their webshop as short as the ones they pack to the watch? Its a bit to short for my taste.
 

DagsJT

Member
Oct 29, 2017
374
Subbing to this thread.

I’ve been running for 3.5 years now and in that time I’ve been in a running club where I pretty much maxed my pace out twice a week for 6 miles, then I ran a long run of 10 miles or so at a much quicker pace than I should have.

In the last few weeks, I’ve been reading more and more about 80/20 and how I should have been including some easy runs at an actual easy pace. I’m now starting to understand why I was always getting injured beforehand.

I’ve got a 10k race next week but it’s not going to be a PB due to there being a pretty lengthy uphill tunnel to get up, and then the week after is a 5 mile race. I’ve been following a Hal Higdon Intermediate 8k plan for this one, it’s had me moving from running 3 days a week to 5 days, but I’m feeling good and confident that I’ll be able to break my 5 mile PB in that race.
 

Duebrithil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
177
Are the M430 synccable that Polar sells in their webshop as short as the ones they pack to the watch? Its a bit to short for my taste.
I have absolutely zero experience with Polar products, but have you tried contacting their customer service? They may be able to provide you with the lengths of the stand alone cables.

Subbing to this thread.
Welcome!

I’ve been running for 3.5 years now and in that time I’ve been in a running club where I pretty much maxed my pace out twice a week for 6 miles, then I ran a long run of 10 miles or so at a much quicker pace than I should have.

In the last few weeks, I’ve been reading more and more about 80/20 and how I should have been including some easy runs at an actual easy pace. I’m now starting to understand why I was always getting injured beforehand.
Yeah, I've found that having some long runs at low intensity has done wonders for my aerobic capacity while still leaving enough gas in the tank for harder speed sessions.

I’ve got a 10k race next week but it’s not going to be a PB due to there being a pretty lengthy uphill tunnel to get up, and then the week after is a 5 mile race. I’ve been following a Hal Higdon Intermediate 8k plan for this one, it’s had me moving from running 3 days a week to 5 days, but I’m feeling good and confident that I’ll be able to break my 5 mile PB in that race.
The ramp up in volume is always a difficult phase but once you get adjusted to the new training regimen it's hard to go back. Good luck on your race and do keep us updated! :)
 

pbsapeer

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,552
Subbing to this thread.

I’ve been running for 3.5 years now and in that time I’ve been in a running club where I pretty much maxed my pace out twice a week for 6 miles, then I ran a long run of 10 miles or so at a much quicker pace than I should have.

In the last few weeks, I’ve been reading more and more about 80/20 and how I should have been including some easy runs at an actual easy pace. I’m now starting to understand why I was always getting injured beforehand.

I’ve got a 10k race next week but it’s not going to be a PB due to there being a pretty lengthy uphill tunnel to get up, and then the week after is a 5 mile race. I’ve been following a Hal Higdon Intermediate 8k plan for this one, it’s had me moving from running 3 days a week to 5 days, but I’m feeling good and confident that I’ll be able to break my 5 mile PB in that race.
Where is your 10k?
 

Fliesen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,256
What's you guys pre-marathon breakfast, btw?

For me it's a small bowl of overnight oats with banana and fruit. And like 1-2 bananas between then and the start of the event.
 

r3s

Member
Feb 6, 2018
126
What's you guys pre-marathon breakfast, btw?

For me it's a small bowl of overnight oats with banana and fruit. And like 1-2 bananas between then and the start of the event.
For an early morning start, I'll go with half my usual cooked oats and honey and coffee. I bring a banana, water and a gel for pre-race once I've gotten all the other stuff out of the way. I also pack a chocolate milk for when I finish too. Go get it!
 

Piston

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,086
It's official, I am signed up and running my first marathon at the end of July. I have a training plan picked out and I am 100% sticking to it + adding to it (it only has 4 runs a week, I want to do something 5 to 6 times a week). Feel free to follow me on Strava below, trying to take a picture for each run!

Aiming for 4 hours... but really aiming to finish it.

https://www.strava.com/athletes/18502044
 

LoveBug566

Member
Oct 27, 2017
344
Currently training for my first marathon in May and I have to say it's one of the toughest things I've ever had to do. Those long runs are so tough both mentally and physically. Can not wait until I go back to racing 5 and 10K.
 

Fliesen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,256
It's official, I am signed up and running my first marathon at the end of July. I have a training plan picked out and I am 100% sticking to it + adding to it (it only has 4 runs a week, I want to do something 5 to 6 times a week). Feel free to follow me on Strava below, trying to take a picture for each run!

Aiming for 4 hours... but really aiming to finish it.

https://www.strava.com/athletes/18502044
i'm a total amateur, but 5-6 runs doesn't help your training, but might actually be detrimental, no?
5-6 runs a week is nice if you wanna lose weight or increase your indurance (cardio-wise) but to get your legs to accept those long runs (25k, 30k, 42k) they need time to properly build that muscle during those resting days.

Someone with more knowledge / experience correct me, but this absolutely sounds like you're needlessly increasing your risk of having a training injury.

Currently training for my first marathon in May and I have to say it's one of the toughest things I've ever had to do. Those long runs are so tough both mentally and physically. Can not wait until I go back to racing 5 and 10K.
I feel you. But on the other hand, once you've ran a 30k, all of a sudden a half marathon feels like a "regular sunday long run". That's what i love about running so much. Everything that looks like a gargantuan challenge just a few months / a year ago looks so much more trivial in hindsight. My longest training run was 34k and it was okay ... got through so much of my podcast backlog.
I must have run like 8-10 half marathons (and longer) this year just as training long runs, which feels super weird, since just one or two years ago, an upcoming 21k would have made me freak out days ahead of the event.
 

Gandie

Member
Oct 27, 2017
811
i'm a total amateur, but 5-6 runs doesn't help your training, but might actually be detrimental, no?
5-6 runs a week is nice if you wanna lose weight or increase your indurance (cardio-wise) but to get your legs to accept those long runs (25k, 30k, 42k) they need time to properly build that muscle during those resting days.

Someone with more knowledge / experience correct me, but this absolutely sounds like you're needlessly increasing your risk of having a training injury.
I don't train for the full marathon, but I'm running 5-6 times a week with added workouts in soccer practice and games. I pay attention to recommended rests (rest after long runs and hard intervals) but I don't think there's a fixed limit on how many runs a week the human body can take (while staying reasonable of course). Training volume and intensity matters though!
 

r3s

Member
Feb 6, 2018
126
It's official, I am signed up and running my first marathon at the end of July. I have a training plan picked out and I am 100% sticking to it + adding to it (it only has 4 runs a week, I want to do something 5 to 6 times a week). Feel free to follow me on Strava below, trying to take a picture for each run!

Aiming for 4 hours... but really aiming to finish it.

https://www.strava.com/athletes/18502044
Followed. You have so got this. My general rule of thumb is that you need to be going around Marathon distance over a week to be able to finish (with walking and probably over 4hrs), but you should aim to peak at 2x Marathon distance over a week for a few weeks if you want to run the whole thing (under 4hrs, possibly 3:30). Best wishes staying injury free. 5-6 times a week is fine, just try and get a weekly long run in of 1:30-3:30 hrs in (no stressing about pace/speed at all).

Edit: don't neglect rest and expect to sleep more.
 
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r3s

Member
Feb 6, 2018
126
Currently training for my first marathon in May and I have to say it's one of the toughest things I've ever had to do. Those long runs are so tough both mentally and physically. Can not wait until I go back to racing 5 and 10K.
I get through them by going on new routes and just trying to enjoy the time on my feet. So many days of just going for a run on tired legs, you forget what it's like to run fresh. Sounds like you're getting the training done though.
 

harz-marz

Member
Oct 28, 2017
999
This is such a great thread for advice, subbed! My injury niggles continue so I really value rest and relaxation at the moment.

Do any of you find that cyro baths help after a long run? I did a half marathon yesterday and both legs are aching all over!
 

CKDexterHaven

Member
Nov 26, 2017
111
10 k cancelled here in Austin because of lightning. Driving around just now I saw someone running in a full on lightning storm .i have only been caught out once. It is too nerve wracking .
 

Duebrithil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
177
Just done 19 miles and I'm a month away from my first marathon. Should I start to tapering now?
How are you feeling? Any soreness or discomfort? If so you may want to play it safe and start now but if you are only tired you may be able to squeeze another long run next week.

If you are following a training plan though, trust it :)
 

Fliesen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,256
Just done 19 miles and I'm a month away from my first marathon. Should I start to tapering now?
Hmmm, i did my last 30+k exactly 4 weeks before the marathon.

Speaking of which. Really happy with how my first (and probably ... likely ... maybe? * only ) full marathon went.
Perfect warm running weather, light breeze, enough clouds as to not have the sun burn down like crazy.

Super happy with my time - 3:25:18
Sadly, something seems to have gone wrong with timekeeping, as i only have a recorded gun time but no net time, so i assume there's something wrong with me passing the starting line.
I forced myself hydrate at every other water point (usually, on HMs or below i never stop for water, unless it's a really hot race).

* i just don't think i can improve upon my time without rigorously following yet another training plan. And marathon training plans are just no fun. Gonna see if i can get a sub 1:30 HM in the fall and maybe go for sub 4min/km on 10Ks.
 

r3s

Member
Feb 6, 2018
126
Hmmm, i did my last 30+k exactly 4 weeks before the marathon.

Speaking of which. Really happy with how my first (and probably ... likely ... maybe? * only ) full marathon went.
Perfect warm running weather, light breeze, enough clouds as to not have the sun burn down like crazy.

Super happy with my time - 3:25:18
Sadly, something seems to have gone wrong with timekeeping, as i only have a recorded gun time but no net time, so i assume there's something wrong with me passing the starting line.


I forced myself hydrate at every other water point (usually, on HMs or below i never stop for water, unless it's a really hot race).

* i just don't think i can improve upon my time without rigorously following yet another training plan. And marathon training plans are just no fun. Gonna see if i can get a sub 1:30 HM in the fall and maybe go for sub 4min/km on 10Ks.
Congratulations on getting it done. I thought I'd be one and done, but carried on training (though I cut the weekly long slowrun down to about 90 minutes). Ended up doing two more on fairly short notice improving quite a bit on my first.

You should hit those goals with relative ease with a consistent focused training block. I still the goals as you but haven't targeted particular events to get them yet.

Cross country season starts for me next week with a short 4x4km relay. Gotta love the extra dimension relays bring to running.
 

Fliesen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,256
Congratulations on getting it done. I thought I'd be one and done, but carried on training (though I cut the weekly long slowrun down to about 90 minutes). Ended up doing two more on fairly short notice improving quite a bit on my first.

You should hit those goals with relative ease with a consistent focused training block. I still the goals as you but haven't targeted particular events to get them yet.

Cross country season starts for me next week with a short 4x4km relay. Gotta love the extra dimension relays bring to running.
yeah, i guess so.

Like, 7-or-so years ago i thought i'd never run further than maybe 5k.
5 years ago i thought i'd run one HM in my life and that's it.
Now, 21k is something i'll just run on a whim if it's nice weather outside...
Who knows, if i make decent progress on shorter distances this year - maybe i'll try to carry the momentum through the winter and attempt another finish ... Right now, my thighs are just super sore 😅
 

ruxtpin

Member
Oct 30, 2017
221
Signed up for the MCM in DC to get my ass back in long run mode. Leaving myself a lot of prep time. Last marathon I did was in 2014... I think.

I did a 10k this past weekend (41:30), but noticed a - what I believe to be - cheater on the results board. I was listed as coming in 6th when I should have been listed 5th; I knew the count of runners in front of me after the first mile (we remained a relatively close group the entire race). I did a little digging and the 5th place runner has an active athlinks.com profile with a photo. He’s someone I don’t recognize as part of the lead pack, but on top of that his average race pace beyond a 5k distance easily averages around 9 per mile. He does have a few 5ks with paces around 8 mins per mile.

It was a local race with a little over 300 runners, so it’s not like there’s much on the line... But what the hell, I’m supposed to believe this 55 y/o guy runs 9+ min miles for years and then lays down a 6:30 pace? The race was chip timed, but I don’t think any photos were taken along the course so I can’t do anything to call this guy out and have anything corrected.
 

Fliesen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,256
Congrats Fliesen! 3:25 is an insane time for a first timer.
Thanks a bunch! Yeah, i'm really happy to have beaten all my goals (soft goal: finish, super conservative goal: finish sub 4, conservative goal: finish around 3:45, ambitious goal: finish sub 3:30). Thankfully, as mentioned, the conditions that day were pretty close to perfect. It really helped to be running my first 42k at such a big event, because it's really helpful to constantly have spectators at the sidelines who cheer you on.

Already emailed the folks who did the timekeeping, i'd love official stats.
Should be around the 130th of men in my age class, around 870th or so total (out of 5693 marathon finishers).

Looking at some aerial photos i'm really happy i switched starting blocks.


This is the field of runners at KM 1 - the starting blocks are like so:


I really feel that Block 3 (Marathon 3:30-4:00, Half-Marathon 1:45-2:00) is way too crammed. That feels like exactly the middle of the 'bell curve' of participants.
I smartly switched to block 2, which then goes on to run on the left side of the Danube bridge (on the right in the above image) - which is a whole lot less crammed.
 

harz-marz

Member
Oct 28, 2017
999
Thanks a bunch! Yeah, i'm really happy to have beaten all my goals (soft goal: finish, super conservative goal: finish sub 4, conservative goal: finish around 3:45, ambitious goal: finish sub 3:30). Thankfully, as mentioned, the conditions that day were pretty close to perfect. It really helped to be running my first 42k at such a big event, because it's really helpful to constantly have spectators at the sidelines who cheer you on.

Already emailed the folks who did the timekeeping, i'd love official stats.
Should be around the 130th of men in my age class, around 870th or so total (out of 5693 marathon finishers).

Looking at some aerial photos i'm really happy i switched starting blocks.


This is the field of runners at KM 1 - the starting blocks are like so:


I really feel that Block 3 (Marathon 3:30-4:00, Half-Marathon 1:45-2:00) is way too crammed. That feels like exactly the middle of the 'bell curve' of participants.
I smartly switched to block 2, which then goes on to run on the left side of the Danube bridge (on the right in the above image) - which is a whole lot less crammed.
Wow that's amazing well done! I am in the same position as you, I ran a half marathon at the weekend in 1:42 and feel I could push myself on my big marathon day in May. Ideally I'd like to do it in 4 hours and I think I'll still aim for that.

Hat off to you !
 

Fliesen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,256
For the last several years my daughter and I have been cycling down to the Maine Marathon every year to cheer folks on. One of these days I suppose I should actually run it myself...
Folks and their kids cheering the runners on are the real MVPs. I'm a huge sucker for handing out / receiving high fives. 🙋‍♂️
It's folks like you and some super-jolly songs in my playlist that got me through the emotional slump at around 31k :)
Like, for a moment, i literally felt like crying because i was so fed up with the km just feeling like they took half an hour each.

Wow that's amazing well done! I am in the same position as you, I ran a half marathon at the weekend in 1:42 and feel I could push myself on my big marathon day in May. Ideally I'd like to do it in 4 hours and I think I'll still aim for that.

Hat off to you !
I don't / didn't believe in those "take your half marathon time, x2 and add ... 15 or 30 or whatever minutes".
But 1:42 is around 4:51 / km. While a 4h marathon is 5:38 on average.

I think that's a very achievable goal - You'll totally make that. You just need to get used to that mileage - both your legs and your head ...
 

Haunted Tank

Member
Oct 28, 2017
22
Thanks a bunch! Yeah, i'm really happy to have beaten all my goals (soft goal: finish, super conservative goal: finish sub 4, conservative goal: finish around 3:45, ambitious goal: finish sub 3:30). Thankfully, as mentioned, the conditions that day were pretty close to perfect. It really helped to be running my first 42k at such a big event, because it's really helpful to constantly have spectators at the sidelines who cheer you on.

Already emailed the folks who did the timekeeping, i'd love official stats.
Should be around the 130th of men in my age class, around 870th or so total (out of 5693 marathon finishers).

Looking at some aerial photos i'm really happy i switched starting blocks.


This is the field of runners at KM 1 - the starting blocks are like so:


I really feel that Block 3 (Marathon 3:30-4:00, Half-Marathon 1:45-2:00) is way too crammed. That feels like exactly the middle of the 'bell curve' of participants.
I smartly switched to block 2, which then goes on to run on the left side of the Danube bridge (on the right in the above image) - which is a whole lot less crammed.
https://www.vienna-marathon.com/?surl=cd162e16e318d263fd56d6261673fe72#goto-startlist

Just search for your Name and click on it. It will show your overall and age group positions. I was there with you in block 2. Unfortunately I crashed and burned at km 35. I was on course for a sub 3:20 but couldn't keep it up. That Prater alley part was cruel. Running that seemingly endless alley as a loop drained all my energy. Still got a PR with 3:22 though.
 

Gandie

Member
Oct 27, 2017
811
Week 8 completed today with a 18k longrun. Went without water today, since the backpack is really annoying me with the faster pace. Feeling amazing though, I'm enjoying building up the base and smashing longer runs like it's nothing. Had only 2 or 3 15k+ runs in the half marathon cycle last year.
 

Fliesen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,256
https://www.vienna-marathon.com/?surl=cd162e16e318d263fd56d6261673fe72#goto-startlist

Just search for your Name and click on it. It will show your overall and age group positions. I was there with you in block 2. Unfortunately I crashed and burned at km 35. I was on course for a sub 3:20 but couldn't keep it up. That Prater alley part was cruel. Running that seemingly endless alley as a loop drained all my energy. Still got a PR with 3:22 though.
Thanks, but on the VCM page i don't see any results, and on the mikatiming page i only see my "Bruttzeit" but neither "Nettozeit" nor any splits. Friend of mine has all the splits up until km 40 but no official finish time.

Congrats on the PB! Yeah, up and down the Prater Alley (km 31-35) were horrible. At least after the loop around the Lusthaus, you finally hit the point of "every step is a step towards the finish line" before that, it's feels like the opposite - you're actually running further away from the city center. Add the fact that at the same time being passed by the 4th runner of the relays which makes gives you the impression that you're running at a horrible pace :D

 

Fliesen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,256
Your run sounds like it was awesome, though, good job! We have a friend doing Boston this year and we're going to go down and cheer her on also, looking forward to it.
Do you and / or your friend have iPhones?

My parents, as well as two friends came to Vienna to cheer me (and my girlfriend and my buddy) on, and sharing our location via "Find My Friends" really helped - they just geo-fenced their position and set up to be notified when my shared location entered a 200m or so radius.
 

Duebrithil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
177
Congrats on beating your goals Fliesen, and most importantly on having fun racing your first (of hopefully many) marathon(s)! You'll easily improve your time if you set your mind to it :D
 

DagsJT

Member
Oct 29, 2017
374
Signed up to the Manchester Marathon 2020 this morning. It’ll be my first marathon despite running for 3.5 years and having run 10 half marathons.

Very much looking forward to it.
 

harz-marz

Member
Oct 28, 2017
999
What are everyone's thoughts on compression gear? I bought a couple of calf sleeves and have been wearing them about the house and they feel good on my legs. Do people wear them running too or is it better to get compression socks that pull all the way up to calves?

I'm currently wearing a knee support on each knee and Don't want to look completely ridiculous when am out running lol.
 

CKDexterHaven

Member
Nov 26, 2017
111
I wear a calf sleeve when my muscle feels twingy. Popped my calf about a year ago . The sleeve definitely helps. I don’t wear all the time .
 

Fliesen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,256
What are everyone's thoughts on compression gear? I bought a couple of calf sleeves and have been wearing them about the house and they feel good on my legs. Do people wear them running too or is it better to get compression socks that pull all the way up to calves?

I'm currently wearing a knee support on each knee and Don't want to look completely ridiculous when am out running lol.
My girlfriend wears compression socks (that are almost knee length) from time to time. I sometimes wear a knee sleeve.

Also, wear whatever makes you feel most comfortable. You're running for sports, not for a fashion show ;)