Running ERA |OT| Off the couch into a new ERA

Deleted member 25094 · May 12, 2019

I'm a bit confused by this Garmin Coach and it's ability to schedule suitable runs.

I'm two weeks into a 20 week half marathon plan with a goal time of 1hr 56m, running 4 days a week, and it's had me run an 8 mile long run today (after a 5 mile run, 4 mile run and speed sessions earlier this week) today. Next week it's lined up a 10 mile run. Looking at other plans, it feels a bit full on to be scheduling such large distance (in comparison to 13.1 miles) so early in the programme.

Does anyone else think this seems a bit odd? Like the algorithm has just broken?

Bestlaidplans · May 12, 2019

DagsJT said:
I'm a bit confused by this Garmin Coach and it's ability to schedule suitable runs.

I'm two weeks into a 20 week half marathon plan with a goal time of 1hr 56m, running 4 days a week, and it's had me run an 8 mile long run today (after a 5 mile run, 4 mile run and speed sessions earlier this week) today. Next week it's lined up a 10 mile run. Looking at other plans, it feels a bit full on to be scheduling such large distance (in comparison to 13.1 miles) so early in the programme.

Does anyone else think this seems a bit odd? Like the algorithm has just broken?

Strange. I'm the same but running 5 times a week at a goal of 1:32. It's pretty much the same. Except I'm running time goals not distance.

Deleted member 25094 · May 12, 2019

pbsapeer said:
Strange. I'm the same but running 5 times a week at a goal of 1:32. It's pretty much the same. Except I'm running time goals not distance.

Which coach have you gone with?

Bestlaidplans · May 12, 2019

DagsJT said:
Which coach have you gone with?

coach Greg.

HotHamWater · May 15, 2019

I'm pissed. I took 4 weeks off running to try and rest a problem I have with my left foot, and on the first run back its returned.

I have no idea what it is exactly. It's like a tightness in a tendon that runs under the arch of my foot from the toes to heel. The thing is, it's more of an annoyance than anything. It goes away as I get going but I'll definitely feel it for a while after a run.

Gandie · May 17, 2019

r3s said:
Gandie, I've only had pain on the top of my feet with over-tightening my laces. Either swapping the laces for longer ones (to reduce the temptation to over-tighten) or gap lace to reduce pressure on the sensitive part of the foot:

https://www.fieggen.com/shoelace/lacingmethods.htm

I hope it clears soon and good on you for backing off. I've had to do it during consecutive big training weeks. Having a few days off and turning it into a low volume week beats total downtime dealing with a significant injury.

Thank you for the lacing tip. I loosened all laces on my shoes and redid them in the way you posted and the issues are gone.
I'm really happy and crushing this week, except for temporarily losing my key and finding it after aborting the run and retracing all of the 3kms I had already run. That was a waste of a day. On course now though, Threshold session yesterday (10min-10min-8min), speed session (2*4*300m @mile) today or tomorrow. Then one last Endurance 14k tomorrow or Sunday and I'm done. Next week is lower volume, which I'm looking forward to.

Deleted member 25094 · May 17, 2019

I'm three weeks into a Garmin Coach adaptive half marathon plan where I set the target time to 1:56:00. Given my PB is 1:57:08 and I've not been close to that for a while, I felt 1:56 felt like a nice target.

It turns out that I may be underestimating myself according to Coach Amy. I've comfortably filled the confidence bar where it's been right at the top of the green confidence level, so I readjusted my time to 1:54:00 and Amy has continued to be confident in my ability as I've been running the workouts suggested.

I'm now verging on moving into the "overachieving" section of the confidence bar. I'm running the easy runs as easily as expected, I'm hitting the speed intervals without an issue (I'm asked to run my intervals between 7:51 and 8:21 min miles yet I keep getting buzzed on my watch to warn me that I'm often running a lot quicker than it says to run (around 7:25 a lot of the time).

I've got a 4 Mile Easy run tonight and a 10 mile long run on Sunday so I'm curious to see how the confidence meter changes after those two.

I guess if I'm running speed sessions without too much of an issue now, and I'm running 10 mile long runs in week 3/20 of my plan then it leaves a lot of time for me to improve I guess.

Gandie · May 17, 2019

HotHamWater said:
I'm pissed. I took 4 weeks off running to try and rest a problem I have with my left foot, and on the first run back its returned.

I have no idea what it is exactly. It's like a tightness in a tendon that runs under the arch of my foot from the toes to heel. The thing is, it's more of an annoyance than anything. It goes away as I get going but I'll definitely feel it for a while after a run.

My rule of thumb is to clear anything that doesn't go away after 1-2 weeks of rest with a doctor. Good on you for backing up after feeling some pain, maybe check with a professional to prevent real damage.

DagsJT said:
I'm three weeks into a Garmin Coach adaptive half marathon plan where I set the target time to 1:56:00. Given my PB is 1:57:08 and I've not been close to that for a while, I felt 1:56 felt like a nice target.

It turns out that I may be underestimating myself according to Coach Amy. I've comfortably filled the confidence bar where it's been right at the top of the green confidence level, so I readjusted my time to 1:54:00 and Amy has continued to be confident in my ability as I've been running the workouts suggested.

I'm now verging on moving into the "overachieving" section of the confidence bar. I'm running the easy runs as easily as expected, I'm hitting the speed intervals without an issue (I'm asked to run my intervals between 7:51 and 8:21 min miles yet I keep getting buzzed on my watch to warn me that I'm often running a lot quicker than it says to run (around 7:25 a lot of the time).

I've got a 4 Mile Easy run tonight and a 10 mile long run on Sunday so I'm curious to see how the confidence meter changes after those two.

I guess if I'm running speed sessions without too much of an issue now, and I'm running 10 mile long runs in week 3/20 of my plan then it leaves a lot of time for me to improve I guess.

What's your weekly mileage? What's your running background? 1:56 seems a very achieveable goal (maybe too achievable) if you put in 20 weeks of work. Maybe go with the flow and reconsider your goal time once a month. You could also run a 10k/10mi tune up race to gauge your performance level.

Deleted member 25094 · May 17, 2019

Gandie said:
My rule of thumb is to clear anything that doesn't go away after 1-2 weeks of rest with a doctor. Good on you for backing up after feeling some pain, maybe check with a professional to prevent real damage.

What's your weekly mileage? What's your running background? 1:56 seems a very achieveable goal (maybe too achievable) if you put in 20 weeks of work. Maybe go with the flow and reconsider your goal time once a month. You could also run a 10k/10mi tune up race to gauge your performance level.

Currently on 20~ miles per week although this plan is ramping it up a little each week. I'm adapting to it well enough.

I've been running since September 2015 where I ran a 10k in 1:08:28, after which I joined a running club. I've since ran ten half marathons in total with my PB in September 2017. Since that PB I've ran a few of those halves but the closest I've got was 2:00:31 on the same course which I got my PB.

My current 10k PB is 51:54 which again I got in 2017 and haven't managed to beat since (although I've not ran many flat 10k's since and the last 10k I did was St. Helens which has a pretty huge hill and I got 53:18 on).

I think in 2017 I was going to my running club twice a week and running at my tempo pace (approx 9 min miles) each session, then doing long runs of up to 10 miles at around 10 min miles. So in a way I was training a lot harder then with regards to effort, but I also picked up injuries quite a lot.

In the last ... 9 months maybe, I've started to run on my own and adapt my training to running more 80/20, a lot more easier runs than what I did previously.

It's odd in that pushing hard did seem to get me results with regards to times and PB's but I'd suffer for it. I've ran a number of races in the last 9 months and feel I'm fairly close to the level I was at then but without the injuries. So I'm excited to see how I am after 20 weeks when I run the EHM, and see if I can beat that 1:57:08 which I got in 2017.

I also have a 10k race in August which is the same race that I got my 51:54 PB on so that'll be a good benchmark for where I am before EHM. Hopefully two PB's in two months.

Edit: It's interesting looking at the Run Smart Calculator and inputting a recent race time. It has my easy run pace spot on as is my tempo pace pretty much (I did a Garmin threshold test and it's given my threshold within a few seconds of this calculator) but what caught my eye is intervals at 8:13 min/mi and reps at 7:49 min/mi. This Garmin Coach has me running my speed intervals between 7:51-8:21 yet I keep having to hold my pace back. It's like I've got the pace in me to be a lot faster but I don't have the stamina to go with it I guess.

Gandie · May 17, 2019

DagsJT said:
Currently on 20~ miles per week although this plan is ramping it up a little each week. I'm adapting to it well enough.

I've been running since September 2015 where I ran a 10k in 1:08:28, after which I joined a running club. I've since ran ten half marathons in total with my PB in September 2017. Since that PB I've ran a few of those halves but the closest I've got was 2:00:31 on the same course which I got my PB.

My current 10k PB is 51:54 which again I got in 2017 and haven't managed to beat since (although I've not ran many flat 10k's since and the last 10k I did was St. Helens which has a pretty huge hill and I got 53:18 on).

I think in 2017 I was going to my running club twice a week and running at my tempo pace (approx 9 min miles) each session, then doing long runs of up to 10 miles at around 10 min miles. So in a way I was training a lot harder then with regards to effort, but I also picked up injuries quite a lot.

In the last ... 9 months maybe, I've started to run on my own and adapt my training to running more 80/20, a lot more easier runs than what I did previously.

It's odd in that pushing hard did seem to get me results with regards to times and PB's but I'd suffer for it. I've ran a number of races in the last 9 months and feel I'm fairly close to the level I was at then but without the injuries. So I'm excited to see how I am after 20 weeks when I run the EHM, and see if I can beat that 1:57:08 which I got in 2017.

I also have a 10k race in August which is the same race that I got my 51:54 PB on so that'll be a good benchmark for where I am before EHM. Hopefully two PB's in two months.

Edit: It's interesting looking at the Run Smart Calculator and inputting a recent race time. It has my easy run pace spot on as is my tempo pace pretty much (I did a Garmin threshold test and it's given my threshold within a few seconds of this calculator) but what caught my eye is intervals at 8:13 min/mi and reps at 7:49 min/mi. This Garmin Coach has me running my speed intervals between 7:51-8:21 yet I keep having to hold my pace back. It's like I've got the pace in me to be a lot faster but I don't have the stamina to go with it I guess.

I wouldn't put too much in to the Garmin Coach feature. It's still just algorithms. Great to see your progress though.

Bestlaidplans · May 17, 2019

DagsJT said:
I'm three weeks into a Garmin Coach adaptive half marathon plan where I set the target time to 1:56:00. Given my PB is 1:57:08 and I've not been close to that for a while, I felt 1:56 felt like a nice target.

It turns out that I may be underestimating myself according to Coach Amy. I've comfortably filled the confidence bar where it's been right at the top of the green confidence level, so I readjusted my time to 1:54:00 and Amy has continued to be confident in my ability as I've been running the workouts suggested.

I'm now verging on moving into the "overachieving" section of the confidence bar. I'm running the easy runs as easily as expected, I'm hitting the speed intervals without an issue (I'm asked to run my intervals between 7:51 and 8:21 min miles yet I keep getting buzzed on my watch to warn me that I'm often running a lot quicker than it says to run (around 7:25 a lot of the time).

I've got a 4 Mile Easy run tonight and a 10 mile long run on Sunday so I'm curious to see how the confidence meter changes after those two.

I guess if I'm running speed sessions without too much of an issue now, and I'm running 10 mile long runs in week 3/20 of my plan then it leaves a lot of time for me to improve I guess.

Yeah I think we spoke last week. I'm doing the same but at the 01:32:00 time goal. In contrast some of the paces are completely impossible for me to get to. It states "no sprinting" and the quickest i can get to the 05:22min/mile pace is to sprint...
Still it seems like a decent plan so far. I prefer the less pressure on covering distance. I find I hold back more knowing I need to run for 90 minutes than meeting a distance deadline of say 10miles.

Petrapan · May 18, 2019

pbsapeer said:
Yeah I think we spoke last week. I'm doing the same but at the 01:32:00 time goal. In contrast some of the paces are completely impossible for me to get to. It states "no sprinting" and the quickest i can get to the 05:22min/mile pace is to sprint...
Still it seems like a decent plan so far. I prefer the less pressure on covering distance. I find I hold back more knowing I need to run for 90 minutes than meeting a distance deadline of say 10miles.

I've run a hilly 1:28 half and I've never run close to 05:22 pace for anything longer than 45seconds

Bestlaidplans · May 18, 2019

Petrapan said:
I've run a hilly 1:28 half and I've never run close to 05:22 pace for anything longer than 45seconds

Yeah exactly! I'm surprised it wants to push people so much further than they're aiming for

Deleted member 25094 · May 19, 2019

DagsJT said:
I'm three weeks into a Garmin Coach adaptive half marathon plan where I set the target time to 1:56:00. Given my PB is 1:57:08 and I've not been close to that for a while, I felt 1:56 felt like a nice target.

It turns out that I may be underestimating myself according to Coach Amy. I've comfortably filled the confidence bar where it's been right at the top of the green confidence level, so I readjusted my time to 1:54:00 and Amy has continued to be confident in my ability as I've been running the workouts suggested.

I'm now verging on moving into the "overachieving" section of the confidence bar. I'm running the easy runs as easily as expected, I'm hitting the speed intervals without an issue (I'm asked to run my intervals between 7:51 and 8:21 min miles yet I keep getting buzzed on my watch to warn me that I'm often running a lot quicker than it says to run (around 7:25 a lot of the time).

I've got a 4 Mile Easy run tonight and a 10 mile long run on Sunday so I'm curious to see how the confidence meter changes after those two.

I guess if I'm running speed sessions without too much of an issue now, and I'm running 10 mile long runs in week 3/20 of my plan then it leaves a lot of time for me to improve I guess.

So I've finished today's 10 mile run and it's given me an 11 mile run next week. For a half marathon in 17 weeks time. These algorithms are odd.

Gandie · May 20, 2019

DagsJT said:
So I've finished today's 10 mile run and it's given me an 11 mile run next week. For a half marathon in 17 weeks time. These algorithms are odd.

It's not uncommon to run longer training workouts than you eventual race.

panda-zebra · May 20, 2019

HotHamWater said:
I'm pissed. I took 4 weeks off running to try and rest a problem I have with my left foot, and on the first run back its returned.

I have no idea what it is exactly. It's like a tightness in a tendon that runs under the arch of my foot from the toes to heel. The thing is, it's more of an annoyance than anything. It goes away as I get going but I'll definitely feel it for a while after a run.

Is it bad first thing in a morning? Does it wake you in the night? I started with similar problems to what you outlined, coupled with occasion numbness, all in my left foot only and more concentrated in the arch. For about 18 months I pretty much knew what it was but was in denial and masked it with strong pain killers and just worked past the pain. Silly, because it just got worse and worse. When it finally got so bad I couldn't even walk I went to the docs and was told it was plantar fasciitis. It left me out for over 5 months and still bothers me now despite doing things to help lessen it. I know people who have had it stop them running for several years.

Just get checked out - if it is this or something like it, running on it and not doing other strengthening and stretching stuff to counter it can result in longer time out and worse problems. Not running for a week is crap. 4 weeks is terrible. Multiple months though.... :( :( :( Really hope it isn't this. It's fucking depressing shit.

HotHamWater · May 20, 2019

panda-zebra said:
Is it bad first thing in a morning? Does it wake you in the night? I started with similar problems to what you outlined, coupled with occasion numbness, all in my left foot only and more concentrated in the arch. For about 18 months I pretty much knew what it was but was in denial and masked it with strong pain killers and just worked past the pain. Silly, because it just got worse and worse. When it finally got so bad I couldn't even walk I went to the docs and was told it was plantar fasciitis. It left me out for over 5 months and still bothers me now despite doing things to help lessen it. I know people who have had it stop them running for several years.

Just get checked out - if it is this or something like it, running on it and not doing other strengthening and stretching stuff to counter it can result in longer time out and worse problems. Not running for a week is crap. 4 weeks is terrible. Multiple months though.... :( :( :( Really hope it isn't this. It's fucking depressing shit.

Yeah I ended up figuring that's what it was in the end. I originally thought it was caused by a new pair of shoes, and googling plantar fasciitis mentioned something about shooting pains which (thankfully) I don't have so I originally dismissed it. Anyway, I do feel it first thing in the morning, and that's what led me to figuring it out. I've been stretching it as best I can since my original post and I'll give it a trial sometime later this week.

I guess I'll cycle a bunch this summer, and if it doesn't make much progress I visit a physiotherapist. :(

panda-zebra · May 20, 2019

HotHamWater said:
Yeah I ended up figuring that's what it was in the end. I originally thought it was caused by a new pair of shoes, and googling plantar fasciitis mentioned something about shooting pains which (thankfully) I don't have so I originally dismissed it. Anyway, I do feel it first thing in the morning, and that's what led me to figuring it out. I've been stretching it as best I can since my original post and I'll give it a trial sometime later this week.

I guess I'll cycle a bunch this summer, and if it doesn't make much progress I visit a physiotherapist. :(

I did 5+ months of no running but worked on strengthening everything surrounding and working the PF. Squats and then later weighted squats are good. Eccentric heel dips then weighted ones later. Get a resistance band and do clam shells, leg raises and resistance squats before the weights. That all got me a lot stronger while things healed up a bit. Only started running again when I was fully sure the problem had eased off to the point where I knew it was there, but it was never any sort of pain. I was told I'd probably always have some sort of niggle under that arch going forward.

Getting back to running was scary, went out very early in the morning just to cover a potential walk of shame if it all went horribly wrong! Few week later I was back in the hills running races, but I've been a bit shit keeping up with the exercises and I've felt it as I've upped the distance recently.

Best of luck.

BennyWhatever · May 21, 2019

Anyone have any tips for running in the heat? My wife and I have been running together (not next to each other, just at the same time haha) all year and have very similar paces/distances. However, in the heat, my wife does considerably worse. I'm talking going from running 4 miles at a 10:30 pace to a 13:00 pace.
Any tips?

*It's not the heat, it's the humidity*

Gandie · May 21, 2019

BennyWhatever said:
Anyone have any tips for running in the heat? My wife and I have been running together (not next to each other, just at the same time haha) all year and have very similar paces/distances. However, in the heat, my wife does considerably worse. I'm talking going from running 4 miles at a 10:30 pace to a 13:00 pace.
Any tips?

*It's not the heat, it's the humidity*

Keep hydrated before and during your run, get proper equipment (hat, sunglasses, light socks and shoes). People adjust differently to the same conditions, don't expect the weather to affect everyone in the exact same way. Run later at night or pick a route with more cover from the sun. You can also improve the way your body adjusts by simply running more in those conditions. Be sure to not overexert, it happens quickly in the heat. Be concious of the fluids your body loses and pay close attention to your heart rate (or your perceived effort, when not using a heart rate monitor). Don't overdo it!

Duebrithil · May 23, 2019

Gandie said:
Keep hydrated before and during your run, get proper equipment (hat, sunglasses, light socks and shoes). People adjust differently to the same conditions, don't expect the weather to affect everyone in the exact same way. Run later at night or pick a route with more cover from the sun. You can also improve the way your body adjusts by simply running more in those conditions. Be sure to not overexert, it happens quickly in the heat. Be concious of the fluids your body loses and pay close attention to your heart rate (or your perceived effort, when not using a heart rate monitor). Don't overdo it!

Very, very important. It's a thin line to follow (the perceived heat will always tire you more), but if in any moment during your run you start to think "My heart is beating too fast for the pace" stop, don't risk heat exhaustion or heat stroke. Also if you feel dizzy don't try to walk or run to a chair or bench, just stop and sit down right there and then.

Etrian Oddity · May 27, 2019

Last month I started seriously running, and being a fatty (28% body fat) I'm in awe of how easy many people make running look, haha.

I did a personal best on my mile a few days ago (8:21 on a fasted day) but constantly hover around 9:30 otherwise. Kinda discouraging that ten of my last thirteen runs have been in that 9:30 neighborhood. My improvement is inarguable since my first mile was 12 minutes (LMAO!) but I'm impatient.

Do you guys prefer to just add distance onto your runs and trust that the increased stamina will condition your heart to do better on shorter runs? I've never ever been a true runner, my fitness has mostly been weightlifting but the running is just so much more convenient for my daily time crunch.

Fliesen · May 27, 2019

Etrian Oddity said:
Last month I started seriously running, and being a fatty (28% body fat) I'm in awe of how easy many people make running look, haha.

I did a personal best on my mile a few days ago (8:21 on a fasted day) but constantly hover around 9:30 otherwise. Kinda discouraging that ten of my last thirteen runs have been in that 9:30 neighborhood. My improvement is inarguable since my first mile was 12 minutes (LMAO!) but I'm impatient.

Do you guys prefer to just add distance onto your runs and trust that the increased stamina will condition your heart to do better on shorter runs? I've never ever been a true runner, my fitness has mostly been weightlifting but the running is just so much more convenient for my daily time crunch.

I go on a 12k run every 2 days, which takes me like an hour. I never really go beyond that distance on my regular training runs.

Just like with checking your body weight, you shouldn't keep track and compare your individual runs all that much. Maybe find a few 5K races or so throughout the year and use those to actually track your progress :)

Gandie · May 27, 2019

Etrian Oddity said:
Last month I started seriously running, and being a fatty (28% body fat) I'm in awe of how easy many people make running look, haha.

I did a personal best on my mile a few days ago (8:21 on a fasted day) but constantly hover around 9:30 otherwise. Kinda discouraging that ten of my last thirteen runs have been in that 9:30 neighborhood. My improvement is inarguable since my first mile was 12 minutes (LMAO!) but I'm impatient.

Do you guys prefer to just add distance onto your runs and trust that the increased stamina will condition your heart to do better on shorter runs? I've never ever been a true runner, my fitness has mostly been weightlifting but the running is just so much more convenient for my daily time crunch.

Running is all about distance. Sure you can improve by running a mile a day, but true progress comes with increasing distance. Your body needs miles and miles and miles to get faster. You can then add some fast intervals to get your legs up to speed, but that comes way later.

Fisico · May 27, 2019

There's a point where, depending on your objective in the first place, adding miles for a run might not really bring that much of a benefit, but up until 6-8 I don't think anyone could argue otherwise (unless you want to be a fast 100-200-400m runner)

Running more will make you run faster, running longer and slower will also make you faster. If you run more than two times a week not every run has to be a time trial.
My main distance is marathon but I never run less than 10k, I also spent the vast majority of my time running at low intensity which for me is ~8mn/mile while my (marathon) race pace is <6:30mn/mile

With focus on shorter distances (from 1500 all the way up to 10k) there might be a difference as there's probably not much of a benefit to go past 12-15k in training but the rule of running more/majority of running at low intensity still apply

Deleted member 25094 · May 27, 2019

I currently run 4 times per week, averaging around 20 miles per week.

How many miles would you say I should get up to in peak training for a half marathon where I'm looking to hit around 1hr 55 mins? 35mpw?

Also, as part of my weekly runs I'm running the following:

Tuesday - 5-6 Miles at easy pace
Thursday - Speed session (currently 2 mins hard, 2 mins recovery x 7)
Friday - 5-6 miles at easy pace
Sunday - Approx 10 miles at easy pace

With the idea of following 80/20, I've got the majority of my runs at easy pace with the hard efforts on the Thursday.

My goal race isn't for another 15/16 weeks so I'm even debating leaving the speedwork for a few weeks and focus just on easy running to build my base up as my aerobic system just isn't great. I can run 7-8 min miles in my speed sessions and hold that easy enough for a few mins but no chance for anything too long. So I figure if I build my base, it might enable me to run that 7-8 min miles for longer.

Any thoughts?

Fisico · May 27, 2019

How long have you been running, how tall are you, what's your weight, any other sports background, did you do any other race before (5k,10k, half...) and if so when and what was the time?

Doing the maths of your weekly runs you're also already closer to 25m than 20 miles a week.

Deleted member 25094 · May 27, 2019

Fisico said:
How long have you been running, how tall are you, what's your weight, any other sports background, did you do any other race before (5k,10k, half...) and if so when and what was the time?

Doing the maths of your weekly runs you're also already closer to 25m than 20 miles a week.

Been running since September 2015, 5'9", 13st 13lbs, no other sports. Ran a lot of 10k's over the years with my PB being 51:54 (back in 2017) and I've ran 10 half marathons with my PB being 1:57:08 (back in 2017). My most recent 10k was 53 mins but that was pretty undulating and my most recent half marathon was back in September where I hit 2 hours.

2017 was an odd year where I seemed to PB a LOT, there was a period where I just kept nailing it. Unfortunately this also resulted in a number of injuries as I was training by pushing myself constantly.

So it was an odd situation where it wasn't the wisest training yet it got results (for a time). So over the past 9 months or so I've been training a lot better with regards to not killing myself on every run, and trying to run at an actual easy pace and not still going far too quickly.

Not sure if this will work but here's my Strava profile:

https://www.strava.com/athletes/5446632

Duebrithil · May 27, 2019

Etrian Oddity said:
Last month I started seriously running, and being a fatty (28% body fat) I'm in awe of how easy many people make running look, haha.

I did a personal best on my mile a few days ago (8:21 on a fasted day) but constantly hover around 9:30 otherwise. Kinda discouraging that ten of my last thirteen runs have been in that 9:30 neighborhood. My improvement is inarguable since my first mile was 12 minutes (LMAO!) but I'm impatient.

Do you guys prefer to just add distance onto your runs and trust that the increased stamina will condition your heart to do better on shorter runs? I've never ever been a true runner, my fitness has mostly been weightlifting but the running is just so much more convenient for my daily time crunch.

I'd say that starting out increasing volume is definitely the way to go, as your aerobic system gets used to the effort you'll see that it's easier to keep up the pace for longer and this will in turn allow you to run faster. If you want to do speed training, don't focus on intervals, paces or anything like that (as Gandie said, this will come later), but rather do something like "30 seconds of increased effort".

DagsJT Having a couple of weeks to build up base it's not a bad idea. Some of the training plans I've given a look at seem to favour this approach. This one is in Spanish, but it's pretty understandable.

r3s · May 27, 2019

Etrian Oddity, just echoing the others. Lots of 'easy' slow miles (untimed and try to keep the urge to push fast down). Track them by all means, but try not to look at pace while running. The odd mile time-trial every other week on a familiar course should satisfy the urge to see progress, but it's a long term game and consistency will take you far.

DagsJT , I'm interested in hearing why you're doubting your plan. 35 mpw should be plenty to hit a 1/2 Marathon in under 1:55:00. 4 runs a week, including a hard workout. Maybe swap out the intervals for steady state run (10 min easy warm up, 30 mins at 1 hr race pace, 10 min easy cool down), during the fist 4-6 weeks.

Marathon for me next Sunday. Aiming for under 3:10:00. Tossing up whether or not to throw caution to the wind and have a go at sub 3. Currently thinking if the weather is good I may just back myself and have a crack at it. 😬

Etrian Oddity · May 27, 2019

Fliesen said:
I go on a 12k run every 2 days, which takes me like an hour. I never really go beyond that distance on my regular training runs.

Just like with checking your body weight, you shouldn't keep track and compare your individual runs all that much. Maybe find a few 5K races or so throughout the year and use those to actually track your progress :)

Gandie said:
Running is all about distance. Sure you can improve by running a mile a day, but true progress comes with increasing distance. Your body needs miles and miles and miles to get faster. You can then add some fast intervals to get your legs up to speed, but that comes way later.

Fisico said:
There's a point where, depending on your objective in the first place, adding miles for a run might not really bring that much of a benefit, but up until 6-8 I don't think anyone could argue otherwise (unless you want to be a fast 100-200-400m runner)

Running more will make you run faster, running longer and slower will also make you faster. If you run more than two times a week not every run has to be a time trial.
My main distance is marathon but I never run less than 10k, I also spent the vast majority of my time running at low intensity which for me is ~8mn/mile while my (marathon) race pace is <6:30mn/mile

With focus on shorter distances (from 1500 all the way up to 10k) there might be a difference as there's probably not much of a benefit to go past 12-15k in training but the rule of running more/majority of running at low intensity still apply

Duebrithil said:
I'd say that starting out increasing volume is definitely the way to go, as your aerobic system gets used to the effort you'll see that it's easier to keep up the pace for longer and this will in turn allow you to run faster. If you want to do speed training, don't focus on intervals, paces or anything like that (as Gandie said, this will come later), but rather do something like "30 seconds of increased effort".

DagsJT Having a couple of weeks to build up base it's not a bad idea. Some of the training plans I've given a look at seem to favour this approach. This one is in Spanish, but it's pretty understandable.

r3s said:
Etrian Oddity, just echoing the others. Lots of 'easy' slow miles (untimed and try to keep the urge to push fast down). Track them by all means, but try not to look at pace while running. The odd mile time-trial every other week on a familiar course should satisfy the urge to see progress, but it's a long term game and consistency will take you far.

You guys are saints, appreciate the advise!!!

Deleted member 25094 · May 28, 2019

r3s said:
DagsJT , I'm interested in hearing why you're doubting your plan. 35 mpw should be plenty to hit a 1/2 Marathon in under 1:55:00. 4 runs a week, including a hard workout. Maybe swap out the intervals for steady state run (10 min easy warm up, 30 mins at 1 hr race pace, 10 min easy cool down), during the fist 4-6 weeks.

Thanks! I've always followed a pre-written plan where I've always known exactly what I'll be doing each day and as it was written by a coach, it must be a pretty decent plan.

So this is the first time I've really decided to just do my own thing and work on my own schedule. And I think it's just making sure I've not missed anything obvious, or any suggestions on how to tweak it (like the steady state run you mentioned).

I'll sit down tonight and map out the mileage ready for the race.

Would you always put in a taper week for a half marathon? I've followed a Hal Higdon plan before where he still had me run 10 miles the weekend before the race and looking around other plans they seem to drop the long run distance to 6-8 miles the weekend before.

Petrapan · May 28, 2019

DagsJT said:
I currently run 4 times per week, averaging around 20 miles per week.

How many miles would you say I should get up to in peak training for a half marathon where I'm looking to hit around 1hr 55 mins? 35mpw?

Also, as part of my weekly runs I'm running the following:

Tuesday - 5-6 Miles at easy pace
Thursday - Speed session (currently 2 mins hard, 2 mins recovery x 7)
Friday - 5-6 miles at easy pace
Sunday - Approx 10 miles at easy pace

With the idea of following 80/20, I've got the majority of my runs at easy pace with the hard efforts on the Thursday.

My goal race isn't for another 15/16 weeks so I'm even debating leaving the speedwork for a few weeks and focus just on easy running to build my base up as my aerobic system just isn't great. I can run 7-8 min miles in my speed sessions and hold that easy enough for a few mins but no chance for anything too long. So I figure if I build my base, it might enable me to run that 7-8 min miles for longer.

Any thoughts?

I'd say your weekly mileage is more than sufficient. You can run a lot faster than 1:55 on 20-25mpw. I would do more speedwork, tempo runs and longer intervals (1km, mile or even 2 mile repeats). your body can take two hard sessions a week. When running mostly long and slow, you get really good at running long and slow.

Fisico · May 28, 2019

Wew, 10km race in 12 days so I tried a sort of race rehearsal that I saw on some youtube video
3km at 10k pace, 1:30 rest, 2km at 10k pace, 1:30 rest and 1km at 10k pace

It went like a charm, it was sort of a long interval and I had to push a little bit during the 2km part but I maintained the pace without struggling too much and was even able to speed up in the last km at <3:30/km

Now on to target at 35:xx which I'll use as a base for marathon training.

Deleted member 25094 · May 28, 2019

Fisico said:
Wew, 10km race in 12 days so I tried a sort of race rehearsal that I saw on some youtube video
3km at 10k pace, 1:30 rest, 2km at 10k pace, 1:30 rest and 1km at 10k pace

It went like a charm, it was sort of a long interval and I had to push a little bit during the 2km part but I maintained the pace without struggling too much and was even able to speed up in the last km at <3:30/km

Now on to target at 35:xx which I'll use as a base for marathon training.

Do you have a link to the video?

Fisico · May 28, 2019

DagsJT said:
Do you have a link to the video?

I do but it's a canadian/french youtuber.

The gist of it
For 10k : 3000-2000-1000m 10k pace with 1:30 rest between 3000-2000 and 2000-1000 (done between 7-10 days before your race)
Half : 3x3000m @Half pace with 1:30 rest between rep (10 days before the race)
Marathon : 2h30 long run, 1h15 @easy pace 2x30mn @marathon pace with 3mn footing rest in between (3 weeks before the race, very tiring, need to include fueling)

Gandie · May 31, 2019

What a month. Only missed a couple of runs. Didn't miss a single long run (my goal for May). Hit all workout targets easily, 279 kilometer in 24 runs (5,4 runs a week). Goal for June will be to do post/pre run Yoga at least 3 times a week.

r3s · Jun 2, 2019

Marathon recap:
cold, wet, windy - check (5 C, rain, 26km/h wind)
go out hard - check (1/2 marathon pb)
crazy course - check (flooding on course, 1/3rd in abandoned red zone 'roads' in city after 2010/11earthquakes with abysmal drainage)
suffer the second 1/2 - check (slowed 9 minutes in the second half)
Finished 3:03:21 chip time
Strava
Stoked to go under 3:10:00, had fun having a crack at a sub 3.

Fisico · Jun 4, 2019

r3s said:
Marathon recap:
cold, wet, windy - check (5 C, rain, 26km/h wind)
go out hard - check (1/2 marathon pb)
crazy course - check (flooding on course, 1/3rd in abandoned red zone 'roads' in city after 2010/11earthquakes with abysmal drainage)
suffer the second 1/2 - check (slowed 9 minutes in the second half)
Finished 3:03:21 chip time
Strava
Stoked to go under 3:10:00, had fun having a crack at a sub 3.

You clearly had a sub 3 in your legs had you gone more conservative in the first half, it opens the way for a big PR in your next race if you keep up with your training (probably 2h55 already)
I saw you ran it with the Reebok Floatride, how are the shoes how did you happen to learn of them and why did you choose these in particular?

Deleted member 25094 · Jun 4, 2019

I'm in two minds on how to keep training for my half marathon in September.

For the last month I've been following a Garmin Coach adaptable plan and in the last week or so I figured I could just do my own thing to a point. This consisted of 6 miles in zone 2 twice a week, a long run in zone 2 (up to 10 miles at this stage, as well as a speed session varying between tempo and intervals).

Last night I changed my Garmin Coach to use Greg McMillan's plan and for this week he's given me 45 mins at an easy pace twice, a goal pace run of 30 mins (with 15 mins of warm up and cool down on each side) and a long progressive run of 95 mins.

I'm starting to think though that where I stuck to zone 2 running my own easy miles, I could drift out of zone 2 using the Garmin plan. I would guess my zone 2's speed is around 10:50 min/mi, and then as my heart rate starts to increase over the 156bpm, I obviously need to start to slow down.

The Garmin plan has my easy run range from 9:42 - 10:42 min/mi which doesn't give me much moving room to try to keep in zone 2 and keep the necessary pace for the whole distance.

So I'd either stick to zone 2, and "fail" what's asked of me with regards to pace for the plan. Or I stick to the paces in the plan, and likely start to come more into zone 3 which then doesn't become easy miles according to HR.

This could be a case of me being optimistic in my goal HM time as if I had selected a slower HM time then the paces would obviously drop and would likely match my HR zones more. But then it's not necessarily pushing me towards that faster time?

What to do, what to do.....

Edit: I think I might bin off the Garmin Coach and do my own thing, working off HR and zone 2. I might look into the actual 80/20 plan from the book to get some suggestions I guess.

GAMEPROFF · Jun 4, 2019

Tomorrow is the day of my first marathon and I am really afraid and believe that its going to be a big disaster.

RedNalgene · Jun 4, 2019

GAMEPROFF said:
Tomorrow is the day of my first marathon and I am really afraid and believe that its going to be a big disaster.

Try to be calm - you've trained, right? If so then your body will take care of you. I was TERRIFIED of my first marathon, almost puked while waiting in the staging area. But once that gun went off everything calmed down. I started running and the familiarity of the act of running just totally calmed me down. I settled into a rhythm and the miles just ticked off. The last 5-7k was rough, but again, my body just kept moving. One step in front of the other....

GAMEPROFF · Jun 4, 2019

RedNalgene said:
Try to be calm - you've trained, right? If so then your body will take care of you. I was TERRIFIED of my first marathon, almost puked while waiting in the staging area. But once that gun went off everything calmed down. I started running and the familiarity of the act of running just totally calmed me down. I settled into a rhythm and the miles just ticked off. The last 5-7k was rough, but again, my body just kept moving. One step in front of the other....

Ive trained, the last few units were a fucking shame, thats why i took of for two days. I just hope its going well and I dont have to puke, espescially since a lot of coworkers will be there.

Duebrithil · Jun 4, 2019

GAMEPROFF said:
Ive trained, the last few units were a fucking shame, thats why i took of for two days. I just hope its going well and I dont have to puke, espescially since a lot of coworkers will be there.

The training for my first marathon consisted of three runs a week, one of those being a long run which I lengthened every week until I hit 32Km a couple of weeks before the race. I remember being on the starting line and thinking "What have I gotten myself into?" but in the end I managed to hit my time goal and had an incredible time.

What I mean to say is: Trust your training. You've done your homework and the preparation is there. Rest well and keep in mind that the only way to screw up your first marathon is by not having a crapload of fun.

Looking forward to your chronicle when you finish :)

r3s · Jun 4, 2019

Fisico said:
You clearly had a sub 3 in your legs had you gone more conservative in the first half, it opens the way for a big PR in your next race if you keep up with your training (probably 2h55 already)
I saw you ran it with the Reebok Floatride, how are the shoes how did you happen to learn of them and why did you choose these in particular?

The conditions were crap so my 3:10 strategy changed to just go hard and have fun for as long as possible. I ran with a buddy doing the half (mass start for the 10k, 1/2 and Marathon, around 4,000 runners) for as long as was sensible. I also wanted to see if I could get to the 16km mark ahead of 1:30 half marathon pacers where they turn off. We quickly caught the 1:30 pacers and cruised past a few people I knew we're aiming for sub 3hrs. I wasn't too worried as it was a strong tail wind at that point. I let my buddy drift off ahead when we started doing sub 4min k's at around 11km and it was clear he wasn't going to show down. At the furthest point (19km) on the course I knew I'd make a 90 minute 1/2 marathon, but I was now on my own, with a strong headwind and massive puddles for the next 12km so the focus was positive headspace and try and get on the shoulder of someone for a while. At 10km to go I was right on 2:59:59 pace, but knew I'd need to be able to run 4:15/km for the rest, but felt 4:30/km was about as good as I could hold. I saw 3:00:00 tick over just as I could see the finish in the distance - time to work and not get passed in the final straight.

Next big race I have lined up is a half marathon in early September then a 53km trail in mid October. Time to mix up the training with some speedwork soon and as much elevation on technical trails as I can find on the weekends. No marathon's committed yet, but I have a couple in mind.

The Reebok FloatRide Run Fast shoe was awesome. Those shoes are light and I'm not small (188cm and 86kg) and the only damage I took was some small unburst blood blisters on the outside of the ball of my foot, near the big toe. It was not a day for vaporflys or zoom fly variants, given the terrain. I was planning on wearing my hokas (Clifton 1 reissue), but I found they absorbed too much water last time I had a wet race. I've just ordered a pair of the FloatRide Run Fast Pro from Reebok (they had my size and we're 50% off) and hope to use them for shorter races. The FloatRide Forever Enery is a nice cheap trainer too (along the lines the Adidas Boston Boost only lighter) - the rest of the current Reebok range is garbage though. I'm also keen on checking out the NB Fuel Cell Rebel when it's available locally.

r3s · Jun 4, 2019

Duebrithil said:
The training for my first marathon consisted of three runs a week, one of those being a long run which I lengthened every week until I hit 32Km a couple of weeks before the race. I remember being on the starting line and thinking "What have I gotten myself into?" but in the end I managed to hit my time goal and had an incredible time.

What I mean to say is: Trust your training. You've done your homework and the preparation is there. Rest well and keep in mind that the only way to screw up your first marathon is by not having a crapload of fun.

Looking forward to your chronicle when you finish :)

GAMEPROFF, Duebrithil is right. Have faith in the training. Missing some workouts late in the piece doesn't matter. You're just nervous about your first Marathon. You got this.

RedNalgene · Jun 4, 2019

GAMEPROFF said:
Ive trained, the last few units were a fucking shame, thats why i took of for two days. I just hope its going well and I dont have to puke, espescially since a lot of coworkers will be there.

You're good then. You put in the time and the effort to train - a couple of bad workouts aren't going to make a difference. You'll be nice and calm once you start the race.

Piston · Jun 5, 2019

My training for a full marathon has been going ok. I still have almost 2 months and I've done some long runs up to a half marathon. I really need to push this week and get somewhere above 15 miles on a long run.

My main concern right now is that I am training in Miami during the summer. I can't deal with the heat and humidity in any reasonable way past an hour run. I lose between 5 and 7 lbs of sweat on an hour run outside at night stopping for water every 30 minutes or so. The weather doesn't drop below 80 at any point in the day and humidity is around 80+% as well. It is just brutal.

My tentative plan is to do all my long runs on a treadmill in a more temperature controlled environment and to do shorter strength runs in the 5 to 8 miles range outside, but I feel like that is not ideal. I am doing the San Francisco marathon, so weather wise it will be in a cooler, less humid environment, but there will be more elevation gain.

Any advice on this?

Fliesen · Jun 5, 2019

Piston said:
My training for a full marathon has been going ok. I still have almost 2 months and I've done some long runs up to a half marathon. I really need to push this week and get somewhere above 15 miles on a long run.

My main concern right now is that I am training in Miami during the summer. I can't deal with the heat and humidity in any reasonable way past an hour run. I lose between 5 and 7 lbs of sweat on an hour run outside at night stopping for water every 30 minutes or so. The weather doesn't drop below 80 at any point in the day and humidity is around 80+% as well. It is just brutal.

My tentative plan is to do all my long runs on a treadmill in a more temperature controlled environment and to do shorter strength runs in the 5 to 8 miles range outside, but I feel like that is not ideal. I am doing the San Francisco marathon, so weather wise it will be in a cooler, less humid environment, but there will be more elevation gain.

Any advice on this?

Well, if you don't think you can go for 30-34k runs in the humid Miami heat, the treadmill seems like the only option.
You need that mileage.

But i feel you, with regards to the heat.
We had shitty weather practically all throughout May - so i've been going on a run (12k or so) every single day since Thursday.
It's 28°C outside and it's killing me. 😵

GAMEPROFF · Jun 5, 2019

Its onnnnnn
Wish me luch

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