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RWBYERA |OT| Volume 7: Atlas Shipped

DragonSJG

Member
Mar 4, 2019
3,454
He isn't central to the "racism plotline"

He is central to "Blake's plotline"

He is a part of Blake's past that she regrets.

There are various parts to the "racism plotline" such as Ilia, the entire Menagerie arc, etc.

The entire purpose of V4-5 was to convince Faunus they shouldn't follow someone like Adam because he doesn't have their best interest at heart. Just his own. And you see this when he tries to bomb and kill himself, his subordinates and the Menagerie Faunus to avoid being arrested. He is to the racism plotline as "a person you should not follow" He is the cursed rose.

Adam is not the "core" of the racism plotline.

He is part of it. He is core to Blake's plotline, which is her escaping from an abusive relationship.
For five volumes, their conflict was over the white fang, the abuser part only took full scale in volume 6 though but yeah, this is derailing the thread, so we'll just drop it here.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,629
For five volumes, their conflict was over the white fang, the abuser part only took full scale in volume 6 though
Because Adam actively threw the WF away in V5 because he showed them his true colors.

He only cared about himself.

Blake genuinely believes in Faunus equality and that is why she opposed the WF, because they were following Adam's extremist views thinking it would be the best for them.

Hell, according to MK Adam was supposed to die in Volume 5 but they held off on it because of the multiple plotlines happening at V5's conclusion.
 

SamAlbro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,861
He isn't central to the "racism plotline"

He is central to "Blake's plotline"

He is a part of Blake's past that she regrets.

There are various parts to the "racism plotline" such as Ilia, the entire Menagerie arc, etc.

The entire purpose of V4-5 was to convince Faunus they shouldn't follow someone like Adam because he doesn't have their best interest at heart. Just his own. And you see this when he tries to bomb and kill himself, his subordinates and the Menagerie Faunus to avoid being arrested. He is to the racism plotline as "a person you should not follow" He is the cursed rose.

Adam is not the "core" of the racism plotline.

He is part of it. He is core to Blake's plotline, which is her escaping from an abusive relationship.

Yeah, this is the main point here.


The core of the racism plotline is likely going to be Blake and Weiss. Adam is only part of it because his role is as a poison that corrupts, destroys, and casts doubt over every core part of Blake's identity (until she cut the poison out in volume 6,) and this includes her deepest held and noblest beliefs.
 

PhoenixAKG

Member
Aug 14, 2019
117
New topic for discussion. Why is Cinder's abuse of Emerald met with less scorn and distaste than Adam's abuse when it's just as bad?
 

PhoenixAKG

Member
Aug 14, 2019
117
Is it?

I think it’s just as sad because unfortunately to Emerald this unhealthy relationship is the only real relationship she has.
Oh yes. On the subreddit there is so much Cinder X Emerald fanart that is upvoted a lot. I mean people try to downplay Cinder's abuse as seen here: https://twitter.com/AG_Nonsuch/status/1091064105547563008. RWBY chibi even makes light of Cinder and Emerald's relationship and plays it for laughs. Like I said before Cinder is also seen as redeemable by a good chunk of the fandom. It's kind of jarring and baffling actually as she's just as bad as Adam if not worse. In fact Cinder could tell Adam "everything you do I did better".

Emerald still has Mercury though.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,629
Oh yes. On the subreddit there is so much Cinder X Emerald fanart that is upvoted a lot. I mean people try to downplay Cinder's abuse as seen here: https://twitter.com/AG_Nonsuch/status/1091064105547563008. RWBY chibi even makes light of Cinder and Emerald's relationship and plays it for laughs. Like I said before Cinder is also seen as redeemable by a good chunk of the fandom. It's kind of jarring and baffling actually as she's just as bad as Adam if not worse. In fact Cinder could tell Adam "everything you do I did better".

Emerald still has Mercury though.
I think that’s just because the subreddit just like girls love art.

Ive read discussions of people condemning the Cinder Emerald relationship on that reddit.

On the topic of redemption, I think you see that for every villain baring Tyrion.

People think Cinder can be redeemed, Adam can be redeemed, Salem can be redeemed, etc.

I think that mostly stems from the belief people have that good exists in everyone.

I personally think Cinder is too far gone to be redeemed.

Emerald on the other hand needs a real wakeup call. I think she and Mercury can be redeemed and I feel the show is setting up for them to leave Salem’s faction
 

DragonSJG

Member
Mar 4, 2019
3,454
I think that’s just because the subreddit just like girls love art.

Ive read discussions of people condemning the Cinder Emerald relationship on that reddit.

On the topic of redemption, I think you see that for every villain baring Tyrion.

People think Cinder can be redeemed, Adam can be redeemed, Salem can be redeemed, etc.

I think that mostly stems from the belief people have that good exists in everyone.

I personally think Cinder is too far gone to be redeemed.

Emerald on the other hand needs a real wakeup call. I think she and Mercury can be redeemed and I feel the show is setting up for them to leave Salem’s faction
I think Mercury has too much blood on his hand and Em too
 

PhoenixAKG

Member
Aug 14, 2019
117
I think that’s just because the subreddit just like girls love art.

Ive read discussions of people condemning the Cinder Emerald relationship on that reddit.

On the topic of redemption, I think you see that for every villain baring Tyrion.

People think Cinder can be redeemed, Adam can be redeemed, Salem can be redeemed, etc.

I think that mostly stems from the belief people have that good exists in everyone.

I personally think Cinder is too far gone to be redeemed.

Emerald on the other hand needs a real wakeup call. I think she and Mercury can be redeemed and I feel the show is setting up for them to leave Salem’s faction
Those are pretty rare though. I mean for the most part you have people saying they hate Adam for being an abuser(rightfully) but then gush about how they love Cinder. Also people who downplay Adam's abuse are met with much vitriol and scorn and are seen as abuse apologist(they are), but people do the same with Cinder's abuse and no one bats an eye. I just wonder why there are such huge double standards here.
 

Htown

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,524
oh god it's just another Adam Taurus discussion disguised as a Cinder discussion

know what, I'm just gonna come back when the first episode unlocks for freeloaders
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,629
Ok non Adam/Cinder topic.

I want to talk about Hazel because when V5 started I thought he was the most interesting on the villain side, but how they drip fed his backstory made me just not care about him anymore.

It was just really poor execution imo, which is unfortunate because the writers keep saying “he has the most tragic backstory out of the villains”
 

DragonSJG

Member
Mar 4, 2019
3,454
I think he will leave too.

Emerald and Mercury’s scene from V6 shows that Mercury is in way over his head, and Tyrion calls him out on that.
Mercury can't IMO, his hands are too dirty
Ok non Adam/Cinder topic.

I want to talk about Hazel because when V5 started I thought he was the most interesting on the villain side, but how they drip fed his backstory made me just not care about him anymore.

It was just really poor execution imo, which is unfortunate because the writers keep saying “he has the most tragic backstory out of the villains”
Agreed, he just comes across as looking very dumb as he's working the person responsible for his sis's death
 

PhoenixAKG

Member
Aug 14, 2019
117
Ok non Adam/Cinder topic.

I want to talk about Hazel because when V5 started I thought he was the most interesting on the villain side, but how they drip fed his backstory made me just not care about him anymore.

It was just really poor execution imo, which is unfortunate because the writers keep saying “he has the most tragic backstory out of the villains”
Yeah............

My young sister died because of you. Time to kill children as revenge and blame you. There's also the fact that Hazel had no problem inflicting on other families the pain he himself suffered based on the Huntsmen he killed in Mistral.
 

Woozies

Member
Nov 1, 2017
14,652
Hazel could win me back if they complete his backstory in a satisfactory way.

I think the bird thing with Raven is stupid, but a lot of my issues with her evaporated when it was revealed that "No, Salem actually is unkillable."
 

SDBurton

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,134
I could see mercury leaving way easier than Emerald.
Oh? Do tell! :D


oh god it's just another Adam Taurus discussion disguised as a Cinder discussion

know what, I'm just gonna come back when the first episode unlocks for freeloaders
Noooo! Don’t leave!

I think he will leave too.

Emerald and Mercury’s scene from V6 shows that Mercury is in way over his head, and Tyrion calls him out on that.
Ahhhh that’s right, totally slipped my mind.
 

Woozies

Member
Nov 1, 2017
14,652
Mercury at his core is all about self preservation. For him it's all about #1. And that very factor means that he's not sold to a cause. Unlike Emerald he's not an emotionally/physically abused zealot. I mean he's emotionally and physically abused, but that's manifested itself in a "Me first" kind of persona.

That's a guy who looks at how game is going and says "Time to bounce." when it is no longer in his favor.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,629
Mercury can't IMO, his hands are too dirty

Agreed, he just comes across as looking very dumb as he's working the person responsible for his sis's death
I think it’s possible for Mercury. He was born into an abusive household and his world view is pretty fucked, but I think he and Emerald can potentially find redemption.

In his own way, he has shown that he cares about Emerald. More than Cinder ever has.

It’s all on them to actively seek out redemption.

Yeah............

My young sister died because of you. Time to kill children as revenge and blame you. There's also the fact that Hazel had no problem inflicting on other families the pain he himself suffered based on the Huntsmen he killed in Mistral.
My problem with Hazel is he becomes an irrational mess when Ozpin is mentioned.

I don’t think Hazel would be dumb enough to work for Salem if Grimm killed her sister. And we can’t trust Ozpin because he divulges no details asides from “it was a training exercise”

The problem is when Hazel starts screaming about how Ozpin kills children as he actively force feeds Nora the floor is so jarring that it does him zero favours as a character
 

Woozies

Member
Nov 1, 2017
14,652
But I'm also not someone looking for any of the villains to redeem themselves.

Like I don't want or need Emerald or Mercury to redeem themselves.

But i can totally see Mercury being all "Fuck this shit, I'm out."
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,629
But I'm also not someone looking for any of the villains to redeem themselves.

Like I don't want or need Emerald or Mercury to redeem themselves.

But i can totally see Mercury being all "Fuck this shit, I'm out."
My personal belief is Emerald is going to leave in an attempt to find Cinder, and Merc tags along trying to tell her again Cinder doesn’t care.

The two of them are the only genuine relationship they have.
 

Woozies

Member
Nov 1, 2017
14,652
My personal belief is Emerald is going to leave in an attempt to find Cinder, and Merc tags along trying to tell her again Cinder doesn’t care.

The two of them are the only genuine relationship they have.
See, the issue is i don't think Salem is going to let Emerald leave. Last season suggested to me that Salem has a big interest in grooming Emerald
 

Slatsunus

Member
Nov 2, 2017
817
My personal belief is Emerald is going to leave in an attempt to find Cinder, and Merc tags along trying to tell her again Cinder doesn’t care.

The two of them are the only genuine relationship they have.
Right, Mercury actively going to Emerald's defense when Tyrian was mocking her is legit more then Cinder has ever actually done for her.

And even when he was being really blunt telling her Cinder doesnt give a fuck about either of them is something she needed to here at some point.

Personally, I hope Em defects first and Merc tags along but is like, really annoyed about it. Like he is baffled that he cares enough about her to risk going against Salem.

Side bar, but I do think the two of them are easily among the best written characters in the show, especially after there scene with Tyrian last volume
 

PhoenixAKG

Member
Aug 14, 2019
117
Right, Mercury actively going to Emerald's defense when Tyrian was mocking her is legit more then Cinder has ever actually done for her.

And even when he was being really blunt telling her Cinder doesnt give a fuck about either of them is something she needed to here at some point.

Personally, I hope Em defects first and Merc tags along but is like, really annoyed about it. Like he is baffled that he cares enough about her to risk going against Salem.

Side bar, but I do think the two of them are easily among the best written characters in the show, especially after there scene with Tyrian last volume
Seconded. Not to mention they also have one of the best (and edgiest) songs in all of RWBY.
 

RecRoulette

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,469
Yeah, surprised at how much Mercury and Emerald have grown on me as the seasons have gone on.

Hoping that eventually they end up teaming with Neo at some point after Neo/Cinder's partnership eventually collapses

My problem with Hazel is he becomes an irrational mess when Ozpin is mentioned.

I don’t think Hazel would be dumb enough to work for Salem if Grimm killed her sister. And we can’t trust Ozpin because he divulges no details asides from “it was a training exercise”

The problem is when Hazel starts screaming about how Ozpin kills children as he actively force feeds Nora the floor is so jarring that it does him zero favours as a character
They built him up over two seasons only to hilariously throw that out by him becoming a lunatic blinded with rage because of Ozpin, it just came off as goofy
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,629
Yeah, surprised at how much Mercury and Emerald have grown on me as the seasons have gone on.

Hoping that eventually they end up teaming with Neo at some point after Neo/Cinder's partnership eventually collapses



They built him up over two seasons only to hilariously throw that out by him becoming a lunatic blinded with rage because of Ozpin, it just came off as goofy
Yeah

The botched execution of his motives make him a character I can’t take seriously
 

PhoenixAKG

Member
Aug 14, 2019
117
So what are everyone's favourite weapons?

Mine are.

1. Wilt and Blush
2. Myrtenaster
3. Ruyi Bang and Jingu Bang
4. Cinder's Bow and Arrow
5. Cerberus Whip
6. Ember Celica
7. Talaria
8. Winter's Weapon
9. StormFlower
10. Crescent Rose.
 

Panthalassic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
437
I like Smile much better as a villain song. It's actually one of my favourite songs in the series.

As for favourite weapons I like Crescent Rose, Myrtenaster, Gianduja and Anesidora. I guess honororary mention to Wilt & Blush but only because I'm a sucker for cool looking animation.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,629
I've seen some really stupid takes on twitter/youtube about the first episode of V7

People acting like Penny coming back somehow undoes Volume 3, or are acting that because Penny came back Pyrrha and other dead characters can come back. And like I'm just sitting here going "she's a robot" of course she was coming back. Her whole plotline about being created for some great purpose in V2 was never addressed again. So people want that plotline to be completely dropped? I dunno, this to me is like at the end of infinity war people actually thought all the dusted characters were dead, and then complain at the end of endgame that they came back. There is also stupid stuff like people saying Yang forgot her character development because she kicked that drone that was taking pictures of her and people saying Weiss should be punished for throwing that racist in the trash because she assaulted him... and those same people are calling Qrow dumb for not turning into a bird after he got bolla'd. So they are mad "Weiss commited a felony" but want Qrow to commit a felony by "resisting arrest?"
 

PhoenixAKG

Member
Aug 14, 2019
117
I've seen some really stupid takes on twitter/youtube about the first episode of V7

People acting like Penny coming back somehow undoes Volume 3, or are acting that because Penny came back Pyrrha and other dead characters can come back. And like I'm just sitting here going "she's a robot" of course she was coming back. Her whole plotline about being created for some great purpose in V2 was never addressed again. So people want that plotline to be completely dropped? I dunno, this to me is like at the end of infinity war people actually thought all the dusted characters were dead, and then complain at the end of endgame that they came back. There is also stupid stuff like people saying Yang forgot her character development because she kicked that drone that was taking pictures of her and people saying Weiss should be punished for throwing that racist in the trash because she assaulted him... and those same people are calling Qrow dumb for not turning into a bird after he got bolla'd. So they are mad "Weiss commited a felony" but want Qrow to commit a felony by "resisting arrest?"
Well it's pretty obvious where on the political spectrum those who are mad at Weiss fall.
 

RedHoodedOwl

Member
Nov 3, 2017
8,738
I've seen some really stupid takes on twitter/youtube about the first episode of V7

People acting like Penny coming back somehow undoes Volume 3, or are acting that because Penny came back Pyrrha and other dead characters can come back. And like I'm just sitting here going "she's a robot" of course she was coming back. Her whole plotline about being created for some great purpose in V2 was never addressed again. So people want that plotline to be completely dropped? I dunno, this to me is like at the end of infinity war people actually thought all the dusted characters were dead, and then complain at the end of endgame that they came back. There is also stupid stuff like people saying Yang forgot her character development because she kicked that drone that was taking pictures of her and people saying Weiss should be punished for throwing that racist in the trash because she assaulted him... and those same people are calling Qrow dumb for not turning into a bird after he got bolla'd. So they are mad "Weiss commited a felony" but want Qrow to commit a felony by "resisting arrest?"
Weiss should be arrested for attacking a bigot? Yikes!
 

DragonSJG

Member
Mar 4, 2019
3,454
I've seen some really stupid takes on twitter/youtube about the first episode of V7

People acting like Penny coming back somehow undoes Volume 3, or are acting that because Penny came back Pyrrha and other dead characters can come back. And like I'm just sitting here going "she's a robot" of course she was coming back. Her whole plotline about being created for some great purpose in V2 was never addressed again. So people want that plotline to be completely dropped? I dunno, this to me is like at the end of infinity war people actually thought all the dusted characters were dead, and then complain at the end of endgame that they came back. There is also stupid stuff like people saying Yang forgot her character development because she kicked that drone that was taking pictures of her and people saying Weiss should be punished for throwing that racist in the trash because she assaulted him... and those same people are calling Qrow dumb for not turning into a bird after he got bolla'd. So they are mad "Weiss commited a felony" but want Qrow to commit a felony by "resisting arrest?"
Oh, FFS. The tone deafness is astounding