RWBYERA |OT| Volume 7: Atlas Shipped

Morlas

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,062
Ding Ding

Honestly, I genuinely despise people who watch this show sometimes.
It seems to me that it happens a lot in shows that start off simple and quirky like RWBY did and then starts to show some actual depth and understanding of things like mental illness, like there was still depth there in the early stuff with Blake and Weiss' issues but for the most part it was just let's punch some monsters and bad guys until we got to the back half of volume 3. Like I've seen a ton of terrible hot takes about Yang's issues ranging from she got over her ptsd too easily(she's still not completely over it and maybe never will be), to her PTSD not being realistic because she didn't break down in a heap when confronted by Adam(despite the fact that she is never shown to react that way even in her nightmares she's always portrayed as fighting back even when she's scared). As for the racism stuff yeah the faunus racism plot hasn't really been given the room to develop and stand on its own like a good racism plot should, but I also wouldn't say that there was anything egregious about it either. I've seen a lot of the Adam stans get angry that Rooster Teeth didn't decide to go down the path of the misguided revolutionary with him rather than the abusive, spiteful, seeker of power that we got in the end, but like we have characters like that in the show in Blake(in the past of course) and Ilia, I'm sure them being women has nothing to do with why they don't count.

It also doesn't help that this series has a big overlap with the anime and gaming communities as well since I'm sure a lot of the early watchers probably came from watching Red vs Blue, and RWBY is basically an american made anime. We all know how bad those two can be at times.

Also side note, but it always catches me off guard when I notice that Ilia is almost as tall as Blake, her design just makes me think she's a lot shorter than she actually is for some reason.
 

PhoenixAKG

Member
Aug 14, 2019
397
It seems to me that it happens a lot in shows that start off simple and quirky like RWBY did and then starts to show some actual depth and understanding of things like mental illness, like there was still depth there in the early stuff with Blake and Weiss' issues but for the most part it was just let's punch some monsters and bad guys until we got to the back half of volume 3. Like I've seen a ton of terrible hot takes about Yang's issues ranging from she got over her ptsd too easily(she's still not completely over it and maybe never will be), to her PTSD not being realistic because she didn't break down in a heap when confronted by Adam(despite the fact that she is never shown to react that way even in her nightmares she's always portrayed as fighting back even when she's scared). As for the racism stuff yeah the faunus racism plot hasn't really been given the room to develop and stand on its own like a good racism plot should, but I also wouldn't say that there was anything egregious about it either. I've seen a lot of the Adam stans get angry that Rooster Teeth didn't decide to go down the path of the misguided revolutionary with him rather than the abusive, spiteful, seeker of power that we got in the end, but like we have characters like that in the show in Blake(in the past of course) and Ilia, I'm sure them being women has nothing to do with why they don't count.

It also doesn't help that this series has a big overlap with the anime and gaming communities as well since I'm sure a lot of the early watchers probably came from watching Red vs Blue, and RWBY is basically an american made anime. We all know how bad those two can be at times.

Also side note, but it always catches me off guard when I notice that Ilia is almost as tall as Blake, her design just makes me think she's a lot shorter than she actually is for some reason.
Honestly I don't the whole misguided revolutionary thing was really explored with Blake or Illia. We never see Blake's past too much and Vol 2 with Torchwick briefly alluded to it but it never followed upon. Illia did it somewhat but she got over it pretty quickly (I feel like a big chunk was her feelings for Blake) and always had her doubts from the start. Sienna could've done it but she was killed off too quickly.

The reason people are so hung about Adam is that his design is WAY too cool for the kind of character he is and doesn't communicate the kind of character he really is. When you compare him to other people who share the same aesthetics like Jetstream Sam, Vergil, or Jin Kisaragi who a lot of people are more familiar with in the anime/gaming genre, that's the kind of character people associate his design with.

Also even when RWBY tackles these topics, it's not really as deep with them as people think it is.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,101
Don't let these idiots ruin RWBY for you. I don't consider them as genuine fans honestly.
It's the harassment and vitriol the people who work on this show constantly face that genuinely breaks me. I feel so bad for them, and so frustrated that they aren't allowed to do anything when people twist their words, promote harassment on them, and build followings that just want to insult them. I genuinely got so mad when I had an argument with someone on youtube saying "it's ok to harass them because they insult Donald Trump" because they equate that it's ok for them to insult people for making a web show because they insult people who are genuinely ruining lives.
 

Morlas

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,062
It's the harassment and vitriol the people who work on this show constantly face that genuinely breaks me. I feel so bad for them, and so frustrated that they aren't allowed to do anything when people twist their words, promote harassment on them, and build followings that just want to insult them. I genuinely got so mad when I had an argument with someone on youtube saying "it's ok to harass them because they insult Donald Trump" because they equate that it's ok for them to insult people for making a web show because they insult people who are genuinely ruining lives.
Anyone who says something like that isn't worth your time or energy. Their opinions ain't shit.
 

Morlas

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,062
that's cool, I'm guessing it will probably come out around the time they start releasing the narrated versions
 

SapphiCine

Pricefield for Life
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Oct 25, 2017
2,142
Honestly I don't the whole misguided revolutionary thing was really explored with Blake or Illia. We never see Blake's past too much and Vol 2 with Torchwick briefly alluded to it but it never followed upon. Illia did it somewhat but she got over it pretty quickly (I feel like a big chunk was her feelings for Blake) and always had her doubts from the start. Sienna could've done it but she was killed off too quickly.

The reason people are so hung about Adam is that his design is WAY too cool for the kind of character he is and doesn't communicate the kind of character he really is. When you compare him to other people who share the same aesthetics like Jetstream Sam, Vergil, or Jin Kisaragi who a lot of people are more familiar with in the anime/gaming genre, that's the kind of character people associate his design with.

Also even when RWBY tackles these topics, it's not really as deep with them as people think it is.
What people need to understand is that an abuser can look like anyone.
 

Morlas

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,062
What people need to understand is that an abuser can look like anyone.
Yep abusers arent just the out of work alcoholic down the street. Some of the most dangerous ones are very charismatic and generally well liked and rarely use physical violence on those they abuse. Adam is the type of abuser that gets his power from mental control, Blake had a lot of self hatred due in no small part to how Adam treated her during their time as partners and she only recently got past most of that, though she still has some issues from that time of course. The point is Adam is actually a pretty good example of the charismatic abuser. Someone who is liked by their community and uses their charisma and intelligence to get what they want out of people while simultaneously manipulating certain people to mentally to maintain control over them. That's actually what Adam's character arc in volume 5 and 6 is about. Blake took away his control first of herself and then of the White Fang so he became obsessed with punishing her to the point that it got him killed because he couldn't let go.

Also re: the fairy tails show I want at least a couple of them to be framed as Yang reading stories to Ruby when they were younger. I'm expecting Oz and Qrow to do some as well. Maybe even Salem.
 

PhoenixAKG

Member
Aug 14, 2019
397
Yep abusers arent just the out of work alcoholic down the street. Some of the most dangerous ones are very charismatic and generally well liked and rarely use physical violence on those they abuse. Adam is the type of abuser that gets his power from mental control, Blake had a lot of self hatred due in no small part to how Adam treated her during their time as partners and she only recently got past most of that, though she still has some issues from that time of course. The point is Adam is actually a pretty good example of the charismatic abuser. Someone who is liked by their community and uses their charisma and intelligence to get what they want out of people while simultaneously manipulating certain people to mentally to maintain control over them. That's actually what Adam's character arc in volume 5 and 6 is about. Blake took away his control first of herself and then of the White Fang so he became obsessed with punishing her to the point that it got him killed because he couldn't let go.

Also re: the fairy tails show I want at least a couple of them to be framed as Yang reading stories to Ruby when they were younger. I'm expecting Oz and Qrow to do some as well. Maybe even Salem.
Where was it said that Blake's self-hatred was due to how Adam treated her in the past? I thought it was due to her guilt over her past as a WF in Vol 1-3 which Torchwick alluded to in Vol 2 and in Vol3 -4 guilt over the WF attacking the school and Adam attacking Yang.

And is Adam really good of an example of someone who is charismatic? He's never shown demonstrating any of his so-called charisma to to lead the WF and most of it is said rather than shown. In fact when he is being a leader he's acting like an emotional crybaby as seen when he was talking to Corsec and Fennec and at Haven. I think Adam's not really that deep an example of abuser honestly when you compare him to say the Joker.
 
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Morlas

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,062
Where was it said that Blake's self-hatred was due to how Adam treated her in the past? I thought it was due to her guilt over her past as a WF in Vol 1-3 which Torchwick alluded to in Vol 2 and in Vol3 -4 guilt over the WF attacking the school and Adam attacking Yang.

And is Adam really good of an example of someone who is charismatic? He's never shown demonstrating any of his so-called charisma to to lead the WF and most of it is said rather than shown. In fact when he is being a leader he's acting like an emotional crybaby as seen when he was talking to Corsec and Fennec and at Haven. I think Adam's not really that deep an example of abuser honestly when you compare him to say the Joker.
Blake explicitly says that Adam liked to get in her head and make her feel small during her and Yang's conversation at Brunswick farms. Yes a big part of why she had so much self hatred was because of the guilt she felt over leaving her parents and staying with the white fang, but Adam shows gaslighting behavior whenever he encounters Blake on screen so it's pretty easy to make the connection that that was a regular thing from him even when they were together. Even if you know someone is full of shit it doesn't mean their words don't have an effect on you, and Blake was with Adam for nearly a third of her life at that point, and she didn't start despising what he was becoming until later in that cycle. A person's words are powerful even if you yourself don't realize it. Even if you realize intellectually that something that person says about you is probably untrue it can still stick with you and bring you down before you realize it. The first thing that Blake does after Adam dies is break down and try to reassure Yang that she won't break her promise, that's a pretty clear indication that even with all that Adam's done he still has that sort of effect on her. The idea that the bad things that happen around her are her fault didn't come from nowhere after all.

As for whether he's charismatic or not, even if he isn't shown to be particularly charismatic on screen the show supports it by him being able to convince the White Fang in Vale to continue working with Torchwick and Cinder even after the disastrous events at Mountain Glen and being able to convince a sizable contingent of the White Fang to betray Sienna to follow him. The Adam we mostly see is the one that lost control of Blake and later on lost his position in the white fang. Having the things he desired taken away by the person he wanted to control caused him to crack and show who he really was, which was a spiteful petty jealous asshole.
 

DragonSJG

Member
Mar 4, 2019
5,059
What people need to understand is that an abuser can look like anyone.
That is very true.

Anway, for me, my issue with Adam is that he's a too one dimensional character for such a complex storyline like the Faunus subplot. I mean, he actually has legit reasons to be like "f*ck connecting with humans* and I feel like exploring that/or having Blake face him from that angle could work for a really interesting storyline as I feel like that huge part of his character wasn't really addressed
 

Htown

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,627
unfortunately the character that was perfect for exploring the complexities of the faunus subplot was murdered like three minutes after we met her
 

Morlas

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Oct 25, 2017
41,062
If there's one thing I would change about Volume 5 it would be having Adam's coup sending Sienna into hiding rather than just killing her.
 

PhoenixAKG

Member
Aug 14, 2019
397
If there's one thing I would change about Volume 5 it would be having Adam's coup sending Sienna into hiding rather than just killing her.
Even better. Make her retreat to Menageria for safety and have the assassination attempt be on her instead and she and Blake's family(+Sun) work together to fight off the assassins.
 

PhoenixAKG

Member
Aug 14, 2019
397
Blake explicitly says that Adam liked to get in her head and make her feel small during her and Yang's conversation at Brunswick farms. Yes a big part of why she had so much self hatred was because of the guilt she felt over leaving her parents and staying with the white fang, but Adam shows gaslighting behavior whenever he encounters Blake on screen so it's pretty easy to make the connection that that was a regular thing from him even when they were together. Even if you know someone is full of shit it doesn't mean their words don't have an effect on you, and Blake was with Adam for nearly a third of her life at that point, and she didn't start despising what he was becoming until later in that cycle. A person's words are powerful even if you yourself don't realize it. Even if you realize intellectually that something that person says about you is probably untrue it can still stick with you and bring you down before you realize it. The first thing that Blake does after Adam dies is break down and try to reassure Yang that she won't break her promise, that's a pretty clear indication that even with all that Adam's done he still has that sort of effect on her. The idea that the bad things that happen around her are her fault didn't come from nowhere after all.

As for whether he's charismatic or not, even if he isn't shown to be particularly charismatic on screen the show supports it by him being able to convince the White Fang in Vale to continue working with Torchwick and Cinder even after the disastrous events at Mountain Glen and being able to convince a sizable contingent of the White Fang to betray Sienna to follow him. The Adam we mostly see is the one that lost control of Blake and later on lost his position in the white fang. Having the things he desired taken away by the person he wanted to control caused him to crack and show who he really was, which was a spiteful petty jealous asshole.
Yeah I see your point, but the thing is we've never seen their relationship and it stays in the background with other factors that contribute to Blake's angst for the most part which is why I don't think its impactful as people think it is. Also Blake wasn't with Adam for a third of her life. The 5 year thing has been more or less retconned as the Adam short and the comic shows(where she was with him for roughly 18 months).

For the second point, that's still telling and not showing. It still makes his transition to "REEEEEEEE BLAKE!!!!!!!!" look sudden.
 

Morlas

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,062
you know it's too bad that volume 1 and to a lesser extent volume 2 were so limited, if they were more comparable in length to 6 and 7 they would've had so much more opportunity for early character and world development
 

Htown

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,627
you know it's too bad that volume 1 and to a lesser extent volume 2 were so limited, if they were more comparable in length to 6 and 7 they would've had so much more opportunity for early character and world development
maybe but in hindsight they also made pretty bad use of the time they had

like volume 1 we had to waste time on weiss pouting that she wasn't the leader, then we had to waste twice as much time on the fucking Cardin Winchester arc
 

Morlas

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,062
maybe but in hindsight they also made pretty bad use of the time they had

like volume 1 we had to waste time on weiss pouting that she wasn't the leader, then we had to waste twice as much time on the fucking Cardin Winchester arc
yeah the stuff with Cardin and Jaune should've been like 1 episode tops
 

Morlas

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,062
honestly I would've taken a Yang and Blake(seriously weiss and ruby got partner bonding time and blake and weiss even got a bit of development together so why leave yang out of all that) bonding episode any day before Cardin, like the Cardin and Jaune stuff was B plot material honestly.
 

Morlas

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,062
If they do more stuff like the fairy tales of remnant(like 2d animated stuff) I hope one thing they do is show us more of the Beacon stuff we didn't see before.
 

Flandy

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Oct 25, 2017
2,252
maybe but in hindsight they also made pretty bad use of the time they had

like volume 1 we had to waste time on weiss pouting that she wasn't the leader, then we had to waste twice as much time on the fucking Cardin Winchester arc
Ugh, please don't remind me of that.......
yeah the stuff with Cardin and Jaune should've been like 1 episode tops
Personally I prefer to call it the Jaune Arc
 

SamAlbro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,461
On this week's Fan Service: Top Tier -

Cole, Barbara and Lindsay build a tier list of semblances for use in daily life:



Final List:

Golden Honey: Clover

S Tier: Ruby, Pyhrra, Fox, Velvet, Neo, Robyn Hill, Fiona Thyme, Glynda, Maria, Carmine Escalados

A Tier: Ren, Yatsuhashi, Raven, Emerald, Harriet

B Tier: Yang, Jaune, Coco, Vine, Marrow

C Tier: Weiss, Flynt Coal, Hazel, Winter, May Marigold

D Tier: Blake, Nora, Sun, Cinder, Adam, Sienna Khan, Tock

I'm Good ... Tier: Qrow, Tyrian, Elm

Unknown: Mercury, Neon Katt
 
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Morlas

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,062
On this week's Fan Service: Top Tier -

Cole, Barbara and Lindsay build a tier list of semblances:

Without watching I'm gonna guess Clover's is the best for daily life. Good Luck will always be useful.
 

Swiggins

Member
Apr 10, 2018
3,363
Well there's nothing better to do.

Favorite Crack Ship anybody?

I've become a big fan of Silent Night (Jaune x Neo) recently but it's absolutely fucking impossible.
 

SapphiCine

Pricefield for Life
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
2,142
I ship Blake and Yang with better mental health. Luckily it seems to be panning out.
It can be a poly ship. :D

Though in seriousness, one pitfall they could fall into in regards to Blake and Yang is to drag out their shared and individual traumas related to Adam. (Not that the effects of trauma don't persist.)
 

PhoenixAKG

Member
Aug 14, 2019
397
Even though Adam wouldn't ever be friends with a human let alone consider dating one?
There called crack ships for a reason. Don't ruin this for me.

Anyway I like this ship as I think it would be a weird, murdery kind of romance. Like two praying mantis's courting each other while also trying/planning to kill each other. I only see this ship as ending with Neo killing Adam and that's perfect.
 

Gold Arsene

Member
Oct 27, 2017
25,127
I don't really have a crack ship. I have unlikely and less popular ships but nothing I'd really consider crack level.

I kinda like Ruby and Hyde after playing Cross Tag Battle but I don't think that counts as crack.
 

Morlas

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,062
Speaking of Neo who else is expecting her to stab Cinder in the back by the end of volume 8? I mean in my view she was right to go after Cinder first to get revenge for Roman since it was Cinder's fault he ended up in the position to get eaten in the first place.
 

Swiggins

Member
Apr 10, 2018
3,363
Neo taunts a nearly defeated Cinder, before trying to deliver the final blow when the blade is stopped short by a familiar magnetic semblance.

Grimm Pyrrha is now working for Salem, Jobbers Neo and then either attempts to kill, or attempts to turn Jaune.

Cut to black, Inception Horns.

Dun Dun DUNNNNN!
 

SapphiCine

Pricefield for Life
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
2,142
Speaking of Neo who else is expecting her to stab Cinder in the back by the end of volume 8? I mean in my view she was right to go after Cinder first to get revenge for Roman since it was Cinder's fault he ended up in the position to get eaten in the first place.
I hope they do it quick because Neo has showed almost no agency and Roman's death has been her only motivation.
 

PhoenixAKG

Member
Aug 14, 2019
397
Neo taunts a nearly defeated Cinder, before trying to deliver the final blow when the blade is stopped short by a familiar magnetic semblance.

Grimm Pyrrha is now working for Salem, Jobbers Neo and then either attempts to kill, or attempts to turn Jaune.

Cut to black, Inception Horns.

Dun Dun DUNNNNN!
If we get Grimm Pyrrha then I also want Grimm Adam:

 

Morlas

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,062
I'll accept grimm Adam on the condition that he's on screen for 5 minutes and embarrassingly jobs to Blake. Not Blake and Yang, just Blake.