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Marukoban

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,298
Damn! Steam definitely confirms English version.
I already bought the Vita version but will definitely triple dip at Steam and Switch :D
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,158
Steam version definitely makes me expect an English version. I really hope that is true. I really want to play this.
 

Marukoban

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,298
How can you release a game on Steam without English subtitle?

You can, just not in Japan since Steam is very small there.
Aren't there some exclusively Chinese subtitled games in Steam?

But like, Koei Tecmo is literally doing it in Japan...
http://store.steampowered.com/bundle/3475/Kou_Shibusawa_Archives_Vol15____Vol15/

How many more must I link?

Lol I posted before seeing yours.
Though most people would think Japan PC market is very small.
Koei Tecmo must be quite desperate to do that. Then again most of their PC port sucks, so maybe they don't even need to spend much to port.
 
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duckroll

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,205
Singapore

ULTROS!

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,474
Legit question but is this game as hard or harder than Romancing SaGa 2? Coz that game is hard as balls.
 

ULTROS!

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,474
That depends on what you find hard about Romancing SaGa 2?

I had a hard time with the final boss because I was unprepared and missed out on the Magic Research Facility (got it at the final emperor), I couldn't beat the game at that point.

Plus some bosses are unbalanced like that termite queen.

I haven't played this yet, but from all SaGa that I've played, RS2 is on the easier side.

I dunno but SaGa Frontier 1 was pretty doable, that's the only SaGa game I've actually completed.
 

Augemitbutter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,290
looks like i'll be buying this. no Vita sucks but at least they'll add new stuff. don't forget dat physical on PS4.
 

Scar

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,675
Title Town
Huh...

Art style is definitely...different.

I dunno. This might be something I keep on my radar.
 

duckroll

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,205
Singapore
I had a hard time with the final boss because I was unprepared and missed out on the Magic Research Facility (got it at the final emperor), I couldn't beat the game at that point.

Plus some bosses are unbalanced like that termite queen.
Okay but that isn't the game being hard so much as the wrong decisions stacking up against you. So it's hard to really say. You can absolutely screw yourself in Scarlet Grace and get in an unwinnable situation at some point too, sure. Overall I'll say combat is harder than RS2 because it requires more thought, but the difficultly is also less "random" because the player has a lot of control in influencing progress. It's far more tactical, and you have a lot of options. But if you don't know how to use them well, you can make the game increasingly worse as you progress. If you know how to use them well, the game can feel like a breeze at times.
 

Nimby

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,221
o.o didn't know this was announced on the Japanese Direct!

Please localize!! Been waiting for another SaGa since Minstrel Song on the PS2. One of my favorite games of all time.
 
OP
OP
Aeana

Aeana

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,943
For most SaGa games, you really have to accept that you can possibly get your game into a state where you can't win. Granted, this is a much more common occurrence in the Romancing SaGa games than in any of the rest of the series.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,742
For most SaGa games, you really have to accept that you can possibly get your game into a state where you can't win. Granted, this is a much more common occurrence in the Romancing SaGa games than in any of the rest of the series.

I did this in the PS2 remake of Romancing 1. I made the idiot mistake of playing Gray's storyline and could not get the Mattock item I needed to upgrade his sword to its final form, which meant I couldn't finish his main quest. I missed every single timed event on that playthrough because of all the grinding I did trying to get that stupid item.

Never, ever, ever play as Gray.
 

Nimby

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,221
I did this in the PS2 remake of Romancing 1. I made the idiot mistake of playing Gray's storyline and could not get the Mattock item I needed to upgrade his sword to its final form, which meant I couldn't finish his main quest. I missed every single timed event on that playthrough because of all the grinding I did trying to get that stupid item.

Never, ever, ever play as Gray.
I don't think you can lock yourself out of that quest line IRC, it also isn't required. I don't think you can get yourself into an unwinnable situation in Minstrel's Song, unless you pass the point of no return without having a save before that. The grind for that quest is real though, the last ore (Mollock) has seven types not mentioned at all to the player, and type 7 is the rarest of the all.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,742
I don't think you can lock yourself out of that quest line IRC, it also isn't required. I don't think you can get yourself into an unwinnable situation in Minstrel's Song, unless you pass the point of no return without having a save before that. The grind for that quest is real though, the last ore (Mollock) has seven types not mentioned at all to the player, and type 7 is the rarest of the all.

You're kinda right, I wasn't completely locked out of Gray's questline. But what happened was I spent so much time grinding up that last piece of ore that the Jewel Eater ate the entire continent it lives on before I could go kill it, and all of the other time-sensitive events in the game world ended before I could get to them. As a result, I basically had to just go straight to Saruin and fight him as soon as I finally got the ore piece and maxed out the sword, so I missed the bulk of the game.

I wanted to do another replay as a different character eventually, but I never got around to it.
 

duckroll

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,205
Singapore
You're kinda right, I wasn't completely locked out of Gray's questline. But what happened was I spent so much time grinding up that last piece of ore that the Jewel Eater ate the entire continent it lives on before I could go kill it, and all of the other time-sensitive events in the game world ended before I could get to them. As a result, I basically had to just go straight to Saruin and fight him as soon as I finally got the ore piece and maxed out the sword, so I missed the bulk of the game.

I wanted to do another replay as a different character eventually, but I never got around to it.
Traditional grinding is generally a really bad idea in Kawazu games. The more of one thing you keep doing mindlessly, the harder everything else can become. Scarlet Grace actually punishes the player pretty hard if you just go out of your way to keep fighting battles you don't have to. It's pretty anti-brute force progression. Lol.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,742
Traditional grinding is generally a really bad idea in Kawazu games. The more of one thing you keep doing mindlessly, the harder everything else can become. Scarlet Grace actually punishes the player pretty hard if you just go out of your way to keep fighting battles you don't have to. It's pretty anti-brute force progression. Lol.

Yup. Which is why gating Grey's final story quest behind a rare drop item with something like a 1.6% drop rate was insultingly cruel. None of the other heroes in Minstrel Song had that problem - I just had to pick the dumbass whose entire main storyline was about grinding and luck. Womp womp.
 

ULTROS!

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,474
Did SaGa Frontier have any unwinnable situations? I do know that when using Blue you can jump to the final boss right away making the game technically unwinnable (because heck, level 1 then final boss? Who are you kidding?).
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,742
Did SaGa Frontier have any unwinnable situations? I do know that when using Blue you can jump to the final boss right away making the game technically unwinnable (because heck, level 1 then final boss? Who are you kidding?).

I think one or two of the main quest lines were glitchy, but otherwise, no. There's no timing mechanics in Frontier - that's mostly a Romancing thing.

Now, Frontier 2 definitely could fuck you over pretty badly, though.
 
Oct 26, 2017
5,140
This version will have voice work and additional scenarios over the original Vita version.
I guess that explains why I was thinking it looked like a vita game the whole time. On first impressions, a pass from me. Ugly, combat systems didn't wow me. And there's so much coming out this spring and summer I think it'll be impossible to justify. I'll wait for impressions on the port I guess.
 

Lowblood

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,193
I think the worst way to screw yourself in SaGa Frontier would be to progress the battle counter so high that regular enemies are too strong, but even then you could go to some of the areas that spawn enemies below the battle counter level (plus you'd probably have gained some sort of abilities along the way anyway).

You could also possibly trigger the Rouge fight with Blue without being strong enough to win, but you could always just reload your save then (not to mention you can lose that fight and keep going anyway). There's also the fun part where Lute can get to his final boss within ~15 minutes of starting the game, but again, reload your save or just start over at that point.

I guess you could get trapped in Tanzer without a solid team and be unable to handle the enemies there. I know if I ever want to go to Tanzer on replays I wait until I have a solid team.
 
OP
OP
Aeana

Aeana

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,943
how did I miss this ? When ?
A year ago.
https://www.famitsu.com/news/201703/28129840.html

I guess that explains why I was thinking it looked like a vita game the whole time. On first impressions, a pass from me. Ugly, combat systems didn't wow me. And there's so much coming out this spring and summer I think it'll be impossible to justify. I'll wait for impressions on the port I guess.

The battles are the star of the game. They are, in fact, the game. It's a very deep and satisfying system; maybe duckroll will bring his explanation over it over from the old place. The game is pretty much made up entirely of a world map and battles, with dialog scenes in between.
 

Famassu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,186
Heh, I was just checking news about this earlier this week, if there had been any new mentions about bringing it to more platforms/west. Good timing for this announcement, I was wondering if there would be a PS4 and/or Switch version.
 

ULTROS!

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,474
You could also possibly trigger the Rouge fight with Blue without being strong enough to win, but you could always just reload your save then (not to mention you can lose that fight and keep going anyway). There's also the fun part where Lute can get to his final boss within ~15 minutes of starting the game, but again, reload your save or just start over at that point.

Even if you lose the Blue vs. Rouge fight, you'll be using Rouge from there on.
 

Łazy

Member
Nov 1, 2017
5,249
Is it an RPG or some other genre with RPG elements? What makes it good?
It's a very original RPG with no dungeon or city. Only a worldmap.
You chose between 4 characters who have their own more or less little story + shared events that can slightly change as well a few branching paths here and there modifying the map and what you can/can't do.

It has a glorious and hard battle system, very strategic, challenging.

I was surprised to spend more than 80 hours on it on Vita and wanted to play more but got sucked in by the Switch. Still the interest grew to the point I was considering trying to get my Vita out again but now that's not necessary anymore.

Still it's not a game for everyone I guess, but an extremely interesting and original one.
 

Synohan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,971
I've heard, and seen a lot of praise regarding the mechanics, and especially the battle system in this game. Really interested in how everything works. Is there somewhere where I can read up on the gameplay? Instant buy if it ever gets localized.
 

duckroll

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,205
Singapore
I've heard, and seen a lot of praise regarding the mechanics, and especially the battle system in this game. Really interested in how everything works. Is there somewhere where I can read up on the gameplay? Instant buy if it ever gets localized.
Let me quote all the big stuff I have written about Scarlet Grace from just before it was released to now, from the old forum to the new one. It should give you an idea of why I'm so excited for more people to play this game.

The week before it was released:
Anyone else getting it? I've been on the fence ever since they showed the game off at TGS since it looks like S-E is supporting Kawazu with a team of interns and a budget of 100 cartons of Cup Ramen. The technical aspects of the game frankly look unacceptable to me for a full priced retail release of a major new SaGa game. It's really disappointing.

But. It's a new SaGa. It's a real SaGa. And all signs point to Kawazu putting his all into the game conceptually and in terms of getting the best team together for the art, music, and story. On the scenario side of things, this is everything I wished Legend of Legacy would be. The characters all look interesting and have their own storylines. The world looks rich and expansive, with a ton of history behind it. The branching story stuff seems significant. The battle graphics look SaGa as fuck.

But it's also a game with no explorable dungeons or towns. It's a game with multiple loading screens in every battle. Everything looks slow and cheap. Why Square Enix... why?

Anyone else picking this up? Will we even have a thread to talk about stuff? Will this thread even have more than 25 replies? Are there SaGa fans on GAF anymore?


When I was playing it:
4 hours into Urpina's story, just got to the fifth region which is pretty different from all the ones before. It still feels really early in the game, but I can't overstate how dense the game feels. Any concerns I had about there being no explorable towns and dungeons are completely gone at this point because seeing how the game is designed and the concept behind it - it really -doesn't- need explorable dungeons and towns.

A RPG needs dungeons and towns because it needs locations. Locations form a world, give the player a sense of the lay of the land, and makes for memorable settings. It's nice to be able to explore a town, talk to a bunch of people, and understand how that small slice of the world is like for people who live there. It's nice to explore a dungeon and feel like it takes time and effort to get through a tough cave or a temple. The micro parts of RPGs create the strongest impressions so the player can extrapolate those feelings into the larger world without the world having to be populated to scale of a real one. This is why RPGs can have 10 towns or cities in the entire game, and players still feel it is a "world", when it reality that sort of scale makes no sense.

So then without all that, what is SaGa Scarlet Grace? If all towns are just locations on a map and a background image when you enter it, sometimes with a conversational event, other times also offering an equipment upgrade store. How does it work? It works because the game is designed for the macro, not the micro. When every location has a unique purpose which might or might not apply to your character or the current point of time in the campaign, when every region has a dozen or more locations, when battles are specifically designed scenarios for every event or location, the sense of place and discovery of the setting is communicated through that in itself. The world map is not just a world map, it is essentially one giant town and dungeon, with no random encounters, and everything is there for the player to discover. Instead of taking lots of smaller less consequential things together and extrapolating to create an image of a world, Scarlet Grace streamlines a gazillion bigger and very consequential things and populates the actual world with them. It's.... really much cooler than I imagined.

Oh and the battles are really, really, really fun. But more on that later. I just wanted to ramble on about the scenario building in the game.:P
It's interesting how Scarlet Grace really challenges the notion that you need certain things in a RPG, especially a JRPG. The battle design reflects the same philosophy the world/story design embraces - it emphasizes certain core elements by removing elements which people expect. There are no battle items in the game, there is no healing, the battle menu is super streamlined, but even so I feel like there is a ton of strategy and options. The battles really shine when you realize that you are encouraged to experiment with the party construction, swap characters in and out depending on what you expect from a battle, and try to really understand how to best abuse the turn order, the rengeki attacks, status ailments, and so on.


This is my GOTY vote for that year:
4. SaGa Scarlet Grace ; Another big surprise for me. After TGS I was expecting the worst given how the game had no explorable dungeons or towns, longass multiple loading screens in each battle, and honestly looked like a cheap ass 0 budget mobile game. It seemed pretty disgraceful for a new SaGa title on the Vita. But wow what a surprise the game turned out to be. Where it lacks in production values it makes up for in content, where it lacks in polish it makes up for in ambition, and where it lacks in what fans expect in a RPG package it makes up for by what is there being of very high quality. The game plays like a dream once you get into it, part text adventure, part battle simulator, 500% RPG. A really tight and fun battle system filled with tension and satisfaction, a huge selection of party members and weapons, every region packed to the brim with scenarios to discover and immerse in. What could have been a SaGa fan's nightmare turned out to be the sweetest dream. It helps that the art and music really rock too, an they put in a lot of effort in adapting the art into good battle models with nice combat animations. The monsters look great too. Really hope this gets localized.


When Romancing SaGa 2 was announced earlier this year:
Scarlet Grace is one of the best RPGs which flew under the radar last year. It's true that it has performance issues, the loading is kinda annoying even after they optimized it as best they could, and there are no towns and dungeons for you to "explore" so to speak. But even with all that in mind, it was the "biggest" RPG I played last year in terms of pure scope and vision when it came to developing a world. The game plays out like a tabletop RPG fan's dream, with a huge world map and dozens of regional areas. Each area is unique in its own way, contains a regional story frame, and a dozen or more smaller side stories within it. There is an abundance of optional content, the player interaction in terms of discovery and joy when it comes to roleplaying is very satisfying, there are a gazillion characters with their own quirks and many are memorable because of how they are linked to little stories in the region you find them in, and the battle system is AMAZING.

Strip away the negative perception of a low budget Unity game ill fitted for the Vita architecture and probably coded by an inexperienced team, and what you are left with is one of the strongest RPG efforts from Square Enix in many years. Excellent character art and art direction, a sublime soundtrack, a top-tier world building and character driven scripts, and game design that makes the player feel like every bit of effort put towards better understanding the game pays off in really satisfying ways.
It's not that it doesn't have towns. It's that it doesn't have explorable towns or dungeons. There are TONS of locations on the map, and each region has castles, cities, villages, settlements, etc you can find, but they aren't places you can go in and run around in, rather they are static screens with maybe 1 NPC to talk to, and might or might not also have a store menu.

Here's one way I can describe the experience. After playing a lot of it, you start to see the world map itself as a huge town map instead, and every point of interest can be thought of as a house or NPC, some leading to events and battles, some unlocking other areas, or changing stuff on the map, etc.
 

Encephalon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,856
Japan
Maybe I'll try to have an open mind and pick this up if it's the right price.

P.S. What would I need to do to not fuck myself over in Frontier 2?
 
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