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Sam Maggs (Former Bioware Writer) shares one of her worst experiences as a game developer (Asian Racism)

Sir_Bumble_Bee

Sir_Bumble_Bee

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,478


Basically:
- Character was casted, scanned, fully in the game
- Creative Director suddenly asks her to re-cast the character (supposedly late into development?)
- When asked why, they replied that it was because there was already an Asian women in the game and feared players would not be able to tell them apart...



Couldn't find a thread on this. Def deserves one imo
 
take_marsh

take_marsh

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Oct 27, 2017
7,253
That creative director put forward some very old school, unmistakably racist shit right there.
 

Just Great

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,984
Never seems to be a problem with casting 50 scruffy white dudes with short, brown hair per game.
 
Katmeister

Katmeister

Banned
May 1, 2021
2,434
I'm sorry what? This is incredibly offensive to everyone. To Asians for this blatant racism and to everyone else assuming we're so dumb and racist ourselves we can't tell two different people apart. Man, fuck Bioware.
 
Wing Scarab

Wing Scarab

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
1,757
Is anyone surprised? I was with a studio that pitched an idea to a big publisher and they were told there were too many black people in the game. Yeah.
 
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OP
Sir_Bumble_Bee

Sir_Bumble_Bee

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,478
Wing Scarab said:
Is anyone surprised? I was with a studio that pitched an idea to a big publisher and they were told there were too many black people in the game. Yeah.
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no surprise, it's just necessary to have these things out in the open

kurtmeister said:
I'm sorry what? This is incredibly offensive to everyone. To Asians for this blatant racism and to everyone else assuming we're so dumb and racist ourselves we can't tell two different people apart. Man, fuck Bioware.
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Bolded the important part.
 
tadale

tadale

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Oct 25, 2017
692
Atlanta
On Anthem, of all things. Management should have been concerned about a lot of other things besides having too many Asian character models.
 

rras1994

Member
Nov 4, 2017
5,742
It scares me in game dev that it seems to only take one person to ruin other people's aims to be inclusive as in that story they had done the face scanning which means multiple teams of professional people were completely happy with the actress and her ethnicity and because of one racist asshat , that actress nearly lost a job and no one else's of a highly competent teams opinion mattered. Complete asshat who shouldn't be in charge of organising a piss up in a brewery
 

Deleted member 23046

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
6,876
Mass Effect let you slam an unarmed woman, civilian, journalist, with the unique (or the rare) arab name in the game, just because she's asking questions. I don't think there is something equivalent (regarding choices offered) in the entire trilogy.

 
IMCaprica

IMCaprica

Member
Aug 1, 2019
9,417
Unsurprising and incredibly stupid and offensive. Even needing to say "they look nothing alike" feels like an unnecessary amount of time spent entertaining blatantly racist bullshit.
 

Deleted member 13101

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
17,973
I almost feel bad that there's only one possible reply to this, but then I realize this is likely happening on more projects and at more places. Probably in all types of media casting as well, not just games. It should be disclosed more when this type of thing happens, just awful.
 
Meta

Meta

Member
Oct 29, 2017
546
Truly the Bob Dylan of videogames.

Sir_Bumble_Bee said:
- When asked why, they replied that it was because there was already an Asian women in the game and feared players would not be able to tell them apart...
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Not only is this stupidly racist, it doesn't even make sense as an excuse. People have been dealing with samey shitty-looking Mass Effect and Dragon Age NPCs for over a decade. Bioware leadership thought that this was suddenly more difficult with scanned actresses brought to life in the Frostbite engine?
 
ultracal31

ultracal31

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Oct 25, 2017
4,615
Just Great said:
Never seems to be a problem with casting 50 scruffy white dudes with short, brown hair per game.
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NjaKm_d.jpg
 
kimbo99

kimbo99

Member
Feb 21, 2021
4,798
Insert *pretends to be shocked meme*.

I expect nothing less from Bioware.

Edit: Should say EA/Bioware.
 
Indy in the Fridge

Indy in the Fridge

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
15,278
Manfred said:
Mass Effect let you slam an unarmed woman, civilian, journalist, with the unique (or the rare) arab name in the game, just because she's asking questions. I don't think there is something equivalent (regarding choices offered) in the entire trilogy.

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Mass Effect let you hit a bunch of people/aliens as a Renegade. It wasn't exclusive to just the journalist.
 
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Sir_Bumble_Bee

Sir_Bumble_Bee

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,478
I should add too; the fact that just having *two* Asian women (in a game with ~100 named NPCs) was pushing the boundaries too far is laughable.

I know games want to be like blockbuster movies but let's not adopt Hollywood's Asian exclusion too y'all
 
BossAttack

BossAttack

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Oct 27, 2017
42,949
Manfred said:
Mass Effect let you slam an unarmed woman, civilian, journalist, with the unique (or the rare) arab name in the game, just because she's asking questions. I don't think there is something equivalent (regarding choices offered) in the entire trilogy.
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The reporter was the equivalent of Sean Hannity/Laura Ingraham. You can also do a ton of bad shit as Renegade Shepard. This is not the gotcha you think it is.
 

rras1994

Member
Nov 4, 2017
5,742
And I'll say this , and this doesn't just apply to BioWare, but this is why I don't like it when everyone goes on about how it's terrible when the old veteran devs leave a studio because quite frankly it's the new blood that got the games industry actually making diverse characters, they weren't doing that 20 years ago , they were literally just aiming for cus straight white men abd there's a lot of older devs that miss those times and don't want to change. And sometimes things only change when new people are in charge - because in this story there would have been dozens of devs that wanted that character to be Asian - and only one who had a problem with it but almost had the power to undo everyone else's work and would have done if he got in earlier
 

Deleted member 23046

Account closed at user request
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Indy in the Fridge said:
Mass Effect let you hit a bunch of people/aliens as a Renegade. It wasn't exclusive to just the journalist.
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BossAttack said:
The reporter was the equivalent of Sean Hannity/Laura Ingraham. You can also do a ton of bad shit as Renegade Shepard. This is not the gotcha you think it is.
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I am playing a full Renegade Shepard currently near the end of ME3, I haven't find any equivalent free act of violence against a civilian woman for such a lame reason. But I am ok to compare, if you have exemples, but that's only for your jusitifations, it doesn't cancel mine.
 
Veelk

Veelk

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Oct 25, 2017
14,705
BossAttack said:
The reporter was the equivalent of Sean Hannity/Laura Ingraham. You can also do a ton of bad shit as Renegade Shepard. This is not the gotcha you think it is.
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Shit like this makes me really wish I haven't taken a solemn vow to never play Mass Effect until they fix the ending, because one of the best things about going to your old favorites is how you would react to things differently now.

I don't remember much about her other than her being 'obnoxious' which I usually dealt with by responding to her questions in a way she couldn't make look bad and I always felt punching her was just...idk, maybe not cruel, but just kind of brash, below the dignity of my shepard.

But I have a different perspective on news now. Like, because, like, I know some of her questions are angled towards basically criticizing Shepard for not being a human supremacist, but there's also legit stuff worth criticizing Shepard over being an extra-legal fixer. And I remember in ME3, she was actually depicted somewhat sympathetically.

I really wish there was a Mass Effect clone being made by someone.
 
Indy in the Fridge

Indy in the Fridge

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Oct 30, 2017
15,278
Manfred said:
I am playing a full Renegade Shepard currently near the end of ME3, I haven't find any equivalent free act of violence against a civilian woman for such a lame reason. But I am ok to compare, if you have exemples, but that's only for your jusitifations, it doesn't cancel mine.
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I mean, you aren't going to find a perfect 1:1 comparison fitting all that criteria but Renegade Shepard murders indiscriminately across the entire trilogy. Punching a reporter is the least fucked up think he/she did.

 
Aurongel

Aurongel

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
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Oct 28, 2017
7,065
I understand the value of having characters "read" as distinct from one another in a visual medium but there are literally an infinite number of better (and cheaper) ways to address those concerns - assuming they're valid. Which, by the way - they're not, based on the images provided in the OP.

I mean for fucks sake, just slide the hair RGB color slider on whatever developer art tool they're using and call it a day. Being racist is both immoral and expensive as it turns out. I don't know how any studio "justifies" shit like this using such flimsy rationale. It's absurd.
 
BossAttack

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
42,949
Manfred said:
I am playing a full Renegade Shepard currently near the end of ME3, I haven't find any equivalent free act of violence against a civilian woman for such a lame reason. But I am ok to compare, if you have exemples, but that's only for your jusitifations, it doesn't cancel mine.
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See video above. There's just so much terrible stuff a Renegade Shepard can do.

The reporter was basically a Fox News host upset that Shepard isn't a human supremacist. They're not just "asking questions" they have an extremist bias. I never punch her because I think it looks too bad for my Shepard. But, if I could punch Sean Hannity in the face and get away with it, I would absolutely do it.

Veelk said:
Shit like this makes me really wish I haven't taken a solemn vow to never play Mass Effect until they fix the ending, because one of the best things about going to your old favorites is how you would react to things differently now.

I don't remember much about her other than her being 'obnoxious' which I usually dealt with by responding to her questions in a way she couldn't make look bad and I always felt punching her was just...idk, maybe not cruel, but just kind of brash, below the dignity of my shepard.

But I have a different perspective on news now. Like, because, like, I know some of her questions are angled towards basically criticizing Shepard for not being a human supremacist, but there's also legit stuff worth criticizing Shepard over being an extra-legal fixer. And I remember in ME3, she was actually depicted somewhat sympathetically.

I really wish there was a Mass Effect clone being made by someone.
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Your memory is correct, although it is interesting replaying the series and noticing how I ignored certain aspects (Miranda's sexualization) back in the day that just seems so cringe now.
 
ket

ket

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Jul 27, 2018
12,941
Not trying to say that someone at BioWare did or didn't do this but it is kinda irresponsible for a Washington Post journalist to openly speculate that this is about Anthem with little evidence.

Unless they're basing that speculation on something more concrete then maybe don't do that?
 
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