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4Tran

Member
Nov 4, 2017
1,531
That character was only introduced in season 2 and not even as part of the main cast. That also was following up a pretty Islamophobic side plot in season 1. Really not comparable to Ms. Marvel at all.
Yeah, there are a lot of comments from Muslims saying that Ms. Marvel is the first time that they've ever seen depictions of practices that they experience on a regular basis. It's really telling how uncommon this kind of thing really is. And to head off any more disingenuous arguments, there was a show called "Little Mosque on the Prairie" that did talk a lot about Muslim culture, but it was an obscure Canadian show that came out 10 years ago. Ms. Marvel isn't the same kind of thing at all.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,461
Side note, I like how you posted a Fury Road bait gif and the quoted responded quite in-depth on why they believe the show is top quality, and you respond with "ok." Was your intention just to troll an opinion with low quality posting or?

It definitely did slip under my radar because I too thought it was releasing later this year, but after it being out for two days spotted it and been thoroughly enjoying. It's a great all-round show with some amazing qualities, plus an endearing ethnic family representation that doesn't delve into the stereotypes just to make it "English" sensible.
You can say what you want and I can say what I want bud.
 

DarthSpider

The Fallen
Nov 15, 2017
2,954
Hiroshima, Japan
These first two episodes have been so much fun for me. I wasn't as excited about this series going in because I've never read any Ms. Marvel comics and don't know much about the character. But oh man these first two eps have been a blast. The cast is just incredible and I love the visual style. The high school stuff in this works better for me than in the John Watts Spider-Man movies, despite me loving Ned and MJ as well. I'm now going through the initial run of the comic and it's just been great.
 

Hassansan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,125
New Saints Row reveal thread flashbacks, it's valid to not like something but it's wild to me how a lot of people will draw the line at young women/poc/queer people.

Yes.
www.resetera.com

Forbes: Ms Marvel is now highest scoring MCU Disney+ title on Rotten Tomatoes Video/Streaming

More at: https://www.forbes.com/sites/paultassi/2022/06/11/ms-marvel-is-now-the-highest-scoring-mcu-series-or-movie-ever/?sh=2c8af67661b0 Throw tomatoes at me if old

I wonder if this is enough for me to call it "my favorite Marvel show" or will it be considered a bait 🤔
 

Stop It

Bad Cat
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,350
I haven't watched it. As a Muslim myself, I know the show is catering to me but I guess I have fear of disappointment. The obvious answer is to watch and find out. Any time Hollywood attempts a Muslim portrayal its stereotypical dogshit and I guess it has deterred me.
The writer is a British-Pakistani one if that helps. It feels very un American in the tone of it in many ways.

I'm now probably behind if ep 2 is out but I enjoyed the first episode and it definitely should build up momentum as the episodes are released.
 

brinstar

User requested ban
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,262
I just finally got around to watching the first 2 eps and this thread is such a weird read. I don't see how it's any more "childish" than other MCU stuff. It feels like old school Spider-Man to me with the balancing of superhero identity with regular life. Lots of fun so far!
 

Stop It

Bad Cat
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,350
I beg some people within this thread to internally ask themselves why seeing the teenage adventures of Kamala Khan makes them think, "This is for teen girls only," while the teenage adventures of Peter Parker is met with, "ah, this is for all ages and genders!"
More fool them, frankly.
 

Ambient

Member
Dec 23, 2017
7,060
I haven't watched cause I'm just burned out on MCU shows and movies. Haven't seen the last few movies or shows they've put out.
 

Radnom

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,016
I've really enjoyed the first two episodes. If it holds up to this quality it'll be my fave MCU tv show.

I do wish they'd kept her weird stretchy powers, but literally everything else about the show so far is wonderful.
 

Aiqops

Member
Aug 3, 2021
13,809
It is a comfy, low stakes teen series with nice editing, good writing and performances. I have a fun time with the show but can also see why it isn't really grabbing that big of an audience.

But to be fair after having seen all prior mcu shows, no show actually grabbed me on the level of shows like BCS, BB, The Shield, Black Sails, hell even 24 etc.

They are all just fast food in and out and forget after a week for me.
 

cdm00

The Fallen
Dec 5, 2018
2,225
I personally haven't watched it yet because it came out during the E3 timeframe (same thing happened with Loki last year for me) but 1000% sure this is a very small demographic of the viewership pie compared to the average streamer on why they haven't watched it yet

I am excited to start it however, I like my high school drama shows (that's the vibe it gave me in the first trailer and I loved it)
 

Parthenios

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
13,603
My daughter (huge Kamala fan) and I just caught up on the first two episodes. She was annoyed that we waited but we hadn't finished Moon Knight.

These are two really strong episodes. Neither of us like the power set change but it doesn't really detract from the show. Marvel is always best when it's focusing on the human elements of the story and not just cape stuff, and Ms. Marvel is really strong in that regard.
 

Davidion

Charitable King
Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,069
Just watched both episodes. I think the community/cultural characterization is good? Some of the stuff seems a bit too on the nose but I can't tell considering I'm not Muslim.

Probably the biggest thing here is that her character build-up feels really slow. Thinking about it tho, this might actually be one of the first MCU series where the protag actually didn't come with their powers out the box? Which may explain it.

Overall good, looking forward to seeing where it goes.
 

DirtyLarry

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,112
I beg some people within this thread to internally ask themselves why seeing the teenage adventures of Kamala Khan makes them think, "This is for teen girls only," while the teenage adventures of Peter Parker is met with, "ah, this is for all ages and genders!"
I did exactly what you asked (internally asked myself why) and here is my very honest reply.
Also FTR not trying to be defensive here as I'm actually enjoying Ms Marvel thus far despite it feeling very YA to me.
I should state I am also born and bred in NJ and actually lived in JC for a year and a half when I went to college in NYC and could no longer afford Manhattan.
I'm a sucker for whenever Jersey gets any shine so I would be watching Ms Marvel strictly on the strength of it taking place not,only in NJ but also a city I not only grew up by but also lived in for a little while.

I personally have a higher tolerance for Spider-Man feeling more YA as he is a character I have grown up with damn near the past 50 years.
I am 47 years old and saw my first Spider-Man comic when I was 2 or 3. I was attempting to draw him when I was 4 years old.
Spider-Man to me is a beloved character who has been a part of my entire life and also happens to be synonymous with Marvel itself.
So while I no doubt also feel the movies that revolve around him also feel very YA, I am more lenient and accepting with that fact as I actually very much equate being a fan of the character with my entire life, especially the younger part of my life.

Simply put, nostalgia is a hell of a thing.

Kamala, since I do still read some Marvel comics on occasion (I skew way more "indy" and have for the past 25 years), I am aware of the fact she is not a brand new character, I also knew she was from JC and is Muslim, but that is basically the extent of my knowledge on the character. I've never read any of her comics. So truth be told even after watching and enjoying the first 2 episodes, I still am not sure (yet also intrigued) by what her powers actually are.
This is why I no doubt feel more aware while I am watching her show it has a more YA feel to me. I am less lenient towards accepting this fact as I have no nostalgia of emotional ties to her character itself. So it is way more apparent to me it feels YA.

Again to reiterate , I am also aware Spider-Man also has a YA vibe as well, but it is easier for me to accept simply because it is a character I have known and loved not just since I myself was a YA, but since I was a toddler and infant.

And it really is that and nothing else. I am still watching and enjoying Ms Marvel. It is just a bit more difficult to accept the YA vibe as an adult.

And honestly I was not even going to reply as your comment is posed to me in a way to be more of a gotcha statement and there is only incorrect answers to it. However I really do not think that is the case for myself personally.

I just can more easily accept that Spider-Man also has a YA vibe to it because I have literally grown up with the character and because of that and my attachment to the character always being a part of my life, I am way more lenient and willing to overlook the fact that he too feels pretty YA and there is no denying that fact.

Really hope I explained that all so it makes some sense and did not come off as defensive or whatever. That is not my intent. Just truly trying to explain that why as a 47 year old while I recognize both character have a YA vibe to them, it is much easier for me to overlook Spider-Man since he has always been in my life. And I no doubt recognize a lot of that is on me. Just as I said, nostalgia is damn powerful.
 

spootime

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
3,429
Personally it looked like a show for children so I didn't watch it. If I had kids I'd definitely put it on for them
 

Leo-Tyrant

Member
Jan 14, 2019
5,083
San Jose, Costa Rica
I thought the first episode was pretty "ok". Right there with most of the other Disney shows (7/10 average).

But I have tried twice to finish episode 2 and I just can't.

Does it get better ?
 

Gorthaur

Member
Oct 28, 2017
377
People just calling it a teen drama is just fucking dumb.
It has story lines that deal with what is a huge historical point in south eat Asia.
It touches on the issues woman POC face in historically patriarchal societies.
The smell of not watching and writing it of as a teen drama is strong.
That still has nothing to do with the MCU. I watch MCU for superheroes pewpew, and that's all I want from them.
 

Fj0823

Legendary Duelist
Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,642
Costa Rica
That still has nothing to do with the MCU. I watch MCU for superheroes pewpew, and that's all I want from them.

The entirety of the first episode revolves around the MCU, the second one follows up a thread from No Way Home and it also manages to be all of the above.

It's almost as if it's really good at both
 

Gorthaur

Member
Oct 28, 2017
377
The entirety of the first episode revolves around the MCU, the second one follows up a thread from No Way Home and it also manages to be all of the above.

It's almost as if it's really good at both
I watched the first one and it's just awful for me. They don't look and act as 16 years old, more like 12 years old. And the look and style of the show shows it.

Maybe it will be good at the end, I can't know, but the first episode made me not want to continue.
 

Fj0823

Legendary Duelist
Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,642
Costa Rica
I watched the first one and it's just awful for me. They don't look and act as 16 years old, more like 12 years old. And the look and style of the show shows it.

Maybe it will be good at the end, I can't know, but the first episode made me not want to continue.

I can tell you have never interacted with a teenager if you think they're not acting like them
 
May 14, 2021
16,731
The debut viewership numbers are interesting but do they also provide viewership for the final episode of each season.
 

B.K.

Member
Oct 31, 2017
17,021
I haven't watched it yet because I'm way behind on the Marvel shows. I'm only half way through Hawkeye. I don't want to watch them out of order in case there are any references or callbacks I'll miss.
 

Staf

Member
Nov 7, 2017
3,751
Gothenburg, Sweden
Me and my wife have watched all D+ series so far. We both are kind of meh on this. It's ok but we put it on par with Falcon and the winder soldier which is the worst of the bunch so far. Hopefully it gets better because we are gonna watch all episodes of it. But if this wasn't part of the Marvel universe we would have probably dropped it.
 

viral

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,618
The show is fun, it definitely has more personality than other MCU shows. That said, I do feel like I'm a little old for it, but that's fine, not every media has to cater to me.
 

Leafshield

Member
Nov 22, 2019
2,934
I haven't watched it yet because I'm way behind on the Marvel shows. I'm only half way through Hawkeye. I don't want to watch them out of order in case there are any references or callbacks I'll miss.
This is pretty much where I am now. I'm not going to watch the more recent shows until I've seen the older films and shows I haven't seen yet. It does look like a lot of fun though.
 

CloudWolf

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,595
Watched the second episode yesterday and this is so far above the other D+ shows in quality, it's not even close. Too bad it doesn't have the draw of the others.

So, you just want a none teen MCU that is mature but doesn't touch on any deeper themes.

🤣
Tbh, that's most of the MCU. The deepest themes they usually touch on is "evil thing bad, heroes good".
 

CortexVortex

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
4,074
Didn't like the first episode at all after really looking forward to the show as the trailers looked so fun. Might watch the second episode tonight but boy, I really hope I'm gonna enjoy that one more.
 

Siggy-P

Avenger
Mar 18, 2018
11,865
If you think any of the MCU is mature or adult you are living in an absolute fantasy land.

Jesus christ the supposed "political thriller" MCU film litteraly blames all wars and terrorism on secret Nazi occult societies.
 
Oct 25, 2017
29,445
I can tell you have never interacted with a teenager if you think they're not acting like them
I'll give them the first episode, I liked it and the actress but Kamala almost isn't an actual character in it.
She's just a super hero fangirl,
she immediately goes for a driving test , spaces out and wrecks immediately.
a school guidance councilor(?) is telling her to just be herself and decide what to do with her life. She can't give him 5 seconds of attention before spacing out multiple times
She's bullied because she's a nerd/muslim/different but it kinda just breezes through it.
She ask to go to the con, they agree with stipulations that she doesn't like so she lies and sneaks out.
She barrows a bracelet without asking and causes the entire situation.


I felt they did a terrible job with her in episode 1 because it felt like there was nothing there outside the bad things.
Like Tobey Spiderman they pretty much establish Peter is a good kid before he goes rebellious douche on Uncle Ben which immediatelycomes back on him.
Or something like Turning Red where Mei is established so well and her mom so overbearing that you side with her when she does her own thing.

2nd episode 100% fixed this but I really think a lot of the elements in it should have been in the first to just set everything up better for Kamala as a character(crushing on a boy, party, going to mosque,etc)
 

J2C

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,397
Wandavision did really well though, right? For me I think the less essential a show feels to the central story, the less viewers it will get. Loki had Tom Hiddleston, where as this isn't Brie Larson on the cover. Personally I'm a neutral who refuses to watch any of the MCU shows, but if I were going to I would try Loki, Wandavision, and maybe Moon Knight 3rd being a cool name. I expect these MCU shows will get less and less viewers though as things go.
 

subpar spatula

Refuses to Wash his Ass
Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,084
I beg some people within this thread to internally ask themselves why seeing the teenage adventures of Kamala Khan makes them think, "This is for teen girls only," while the teenage adventures of Peter Parker is met with, "ah, this is for all ages and genders!"
The overwhelmingly overall reason is that it was marketed as if it was for kids/teens. Like, of course people are gonna watch Spider-Man because the shit has been pumping out in comics/tv/films for decades, so hello nostalgia. People are allowed to be hypocritical. When you accept that then life becomes a whole lot easier.
 

Messofanego

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,122
UK
I haven't watched it yet because I'm way behind on the Marvel shows. I'm only half way through Hawkeye. I don't want to watch them out of order in case there are any references or callbacks I'll miss.

This is pretty much where I am now. I'm not going to watch the more recent shows until I've seen the older films and shows I haven't seen yet. It does look like a lot of fun though.
I haven't watched any of the other MCU shows in depth (didn't like Winter Soldier, meh on Wandavision and Hawkeye after a few eps) and went straight into this one because of the subject matter, and there's a good recap at the start through Kamala's voiceover. This doesn't seem like a show about continuity and crossovers, it's a very singular point of view. There's been barely any superhero shenanigans, been mostly family comedy-drama.
 

Milennia

Prophet of Truth - Community Resetter
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,254
I adore the show, fantastic step up in production value
 

Sanctuary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,203

SilentSoldier

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,451
Everyone I know irl that is into Marvel media is getting tired of the weekly episode release format and are waiting for all the episodes to be out. They are still hyped to see it, but prefer to wait. Just something else to factor in here.

I can see this being true for a lot of others as well, especially coming off of the release of new Stranger Things (for fans of both) where we got 7 lengthy episodes dropped at one time (it was refreshing for me and my SO, but made going back to the weekly episode release difficult)

This, I have waited for all the episodes to drop for all of the Disney+ MCU shows. I don't really care about weekly discussions and prefer to talk about the seasons as a whole. I'll watch Ms Marvel when it's completed.
 

Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
17,800
I'll give this a shot at some point, but man the trailers for it did not make it look like it's for me. It looks like the tedious high school parts of the current incarnation of Spider-Man turned up to 11. But if younger folk love it, as the ratings seem to reflect, who am I to judge. Not everything is made for me.

For what it's worth, I strongly disliked the high school elements of the Spider-man movies but I quite like those elements in Ms Marvel. The series depicts them with more restraint and charm while the movies sometimes veered into obnoxious territory.
 

Mafro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,364
Not watched it yet because I'm waiting for the final episode to come out so I can binge it all. Did the same with Moon Knight.
 

Trup1aya

Literally a train safety expert
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,327
I'm stoked that a Muslim girl character gets to lead an MCU series. That's super dope. I've finally gotten caught up on The Boys, so I'll try to squeeze this show in between watching Stranger Things with my wife.

The whole "debut numbers are low because of racism & sexism" thing pretty much ignores all of the other factors that have likely played into this show's performance. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure there's a contingency of MCU fans that won't watch for those reasons, but I don't buy that it's the main driver.

The "spider-man homecoming" comparison is weak, considering spider-man is quite literally the most popular Super-hero on the planet, and Ms. Marvel is relatively unknown.
 

Xiofire

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,134
I beg some people within this thread to internally ask themselves why seeing the teenage adventures of Kamala Khan makes them think, "This is for teen girls only," while the teenage adventures of Peter Parker is met with, "ah, this is for all ages and genders!"

Preach. The dismissal of the show because it's "for a younger audience" while they're all totally fine with Spider-Man navigating high school life is frustrating to say the least.
 
Mar 11, 2020
4,966
Every tv show is "cheap" or looks like a CW show or fan film. Literally every show has those comments. It's tiring.
This annoys the fuck out of me too. Saw it all over Wheel of Time, it's under every goddamn show since Game of Thrones. Fucking hell not everything can have GoT or Stranger Things budget or shit wouldn't even get made.
 

Onebadlion

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,189
Preach. The dismissal of the show because it's "for a younger audience" while they're all totally fine with Spider-Man navigating high school life is frustrating to say the least.

Why? What is frustrating about someone deciding not to watch a show for their own reasons? Why let it bother you?

It's been pointed out multiple times that Spider-Man is a shit comparison too. You are referring to the world's most popular superhero who has been around for decades.
 

KeRaSh

I left my heart on Atropos
Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,249
It's up next in our backlog of shows to watch (skipped a few shows to the front of the queue).
I must admit, though as someone unfamiliar with the comics, I only knew who the character was because she's featured in the failed GaaS game.
 

Mutedpenguin

Member
Dec 5, 2017
1,160
Preach. The dismissal of the show because it's "for a younger audience" while they're all totally fine with Spider-Man navigating high school life is frustrating to say the least.
You can't really blame people. I mean look at the style of the trailer...

...starts with a young teen girl writing in her journal, then talking to her guidance counselor.....with cartoon speech bubbles , love hearts drawn on the screen when talking about/seeing boys, dream sequences about being a superhero, wearing a tiara with glitter falling around her, dream sequences about hot boys with roses in their mouths, devil horns drawn on a girl she doesn't like/doesn't like her.



It screams "not for you" to a good chunk of the usual Marvel audience.
Some slight tonal changes and they could have aimed it at a much wider audience pretty easily.

I'll watch it eventually..but the style from the trailer is offputting.
 
Oct 25, 2017
41,368
Miami, FL
You can't really blame people. I mean look at the style of the trailer...

...starts with a young teen girl writing in her journal, then talking to her guidance counselor.....with cartoon speech bubbles , love hearts drawn on the screen when talking about/seeing boys, dream sequences about being a superhero, wearing a tiara with glitter falling around her, dream sequences about hot boys with roses in their mouths, devil horns drawn on a girl she doesn't like/doesn't like her.



It screams "not for you" to a good chunk of the usual Marvel audience.
Some slight tonal changes and they could have aimed it at a much wider audience pretty easily.
yeaaaaaa. This certainly wouldn't have helped.
 

TSM

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,821
For what it's worth, I strongly disliked the high school elements of the Spider-man movies but I quite like those elements in Ms Marvel. The series depicts them with more restraint and charm while the movies sometimes veered into obnoxious territory.

The main issue is that I have two teenage kids and have had way more than my fill of media aimed at the teen demographic. Unless my kids want to watch this with me it'll probably be a long while before I get around to it going by what everyone is saying. This would actually be my guess as to why the ratings for this fell off with people old enough to have teen/preteen children. Media focusing on school drama gets really old after a few years.