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shaneo632

Weekend Planner
Member
Oct 29, 2017
29,008
Wrexham, Wales
I watched episode 1 but I've just had a lot more interesting media to watch the past few days before episode 2 - the first episode seemed decent enough but it just didn't make me super eager to watch episode 2.
 

Foot

Member
Mar 10, 2019
10,882
I did exactly what you asked (internally asked myself why) and here is my very honest reply.
Also FTR not trying to be defensive here as I'm actually enjoying Ms Marvel thus far despite it feeling very YA to me.
I should state I am also born and bred in NJ and actually lived in JC for a year and a half when I went to college in NYC and could no longer afford Manhattan.
I'm a sucker for whenever Jersey gets any shine so I would be watching Ms Marvel strictly on the strength of it taking place not,only in NJ but also a city I not only grew up by but also lived in for a little while.

I personally have a higher tolerance for Spider-Man feeling more YA as he is a character I have grown up with damn near the past 50 years.
I am 47 years old and saw my first Spider-Man comic when I was 2 or 3. I was attempting to draw him when I was 4 years old.
Spider-Man to me is a beloved character who has been a part of my entire life and also happens to be synonymous with Marvel itself.
So while I no doubt also feel the movies that revolve around him also feel very YA, I am more lenient and accepting with that fact as I actually very much equate being a fan of the character with my entire life, especially the younger part of my life.

Simply put, nostalgia is a hell of a thing.

Kamala, since I do still read some Marvel comics on occasion (I skew way more "indy" and have for the past 25 years), I am aware of the fact she is not a brand new character, I also knew she was from JC and is Muslim, but that is basically the extent of my knowledge on the character. I've never read any of her comics. So truth be told even after watching and enjoying the first 2 episodes, I still am not sure (yet also intrigued) by what her powers actually are.
This is why I no doubt feel more aware while I am watching her show it has a more YA feel to me. I am less lenient towards accepting this fact as I have no nostalgia of emotional ties to her character itself. So it is way more apparent to me it feels YA.

Again to reiterate , I am also aware Spider-Man also has a YA vibe as well, but it is easier for me to accept simply because it is a character I have known and loved not just since I myself was a YA, but since I was a toddler and infant.

And it really is that and nothing else. I am still watching and enjoying Ms Marvel. It is just a bit more difficult to accept the YA vibe as an adult.

And honestly I was not even going to reply as your comment is posed to me in a way to be more of a gotcha statement and there is only incorrect answers to it. However I really do not think that is the case for myself personally.

I just can more easily accept that Spider-Man also has a YA vibe to it because I have literally grown up with the character and because of that and my attachment to the character always being a part of my life, I am way more lenient and willing to overlook the fact that he too feels pretty YA and there is no denying that fact.

Really hope I explained that all so it makes some sense and did not come off as defensive or whatever. That is not my intent. Just truly trying to explain that why as a 47 year old while I recognize both character have a YA vibe to them, it is much easier for me to overlook Spider-Man since he has always been in my life. And I no doubt recognize a lot of that is on me. Just as I said, nostalgia is damn powerful.
It is not a gotcha, it is a call for introspection. Which will naturally raise people's defensive shackles, of course. I appreciate your effort in writing all of this!
 

woolyninja

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,028
I think the cast, especially the kids, are fantastic. And the story is fine so far. Can't wait for episode three
 

Gorthaur

Member
Oct 28, 2017
377
I beg some people within this thread to internally ask themselves why seeing the teenage adventures of Kamala Khan makes them think, "This is for teen girls only," while the teenage adventures of Peter Parker is met with, "ah, this is for all ages and genders!"
I remember lots of people asking for the return of adult Peter Parker. I didn't like Tom Holland's Peter Parker, it was too kiddy. I much prefer Tobey Maguire's and Andrew Garfield's Peter Parker.
 

Bjomesphat

Member
Nov 5, 2017
1,820
Preach. The dismissal of the show because it's "for a younger audience" while they're all totally fine with Spider-Man navigating high school life is frustrating to say the least.

What? Teen coming of age is one of my favorite genres, but there's a difference between Disney Channel high school and a show like Sex Education. The demographics they're made for are completely different. Ms. Marvel seems more like a tween show, and that's great, there should be good content for that age group.
 

Soupman Prime

The Fallen
Nov 8, 2017
8,569
Boston, MA
Why? What is frustrating about someone deciding not to watch a show for their own reasons? Why let it bother you?

It's been pointed out multiple times that Spider-Man is a shit comparison too. You are referring to the world's most popular superhero who has been around for decades.
I really don't get why Spiderman keeps getting brought up as it really is a bad comparison. Next ppl will be comparing Ironheart to Spiderman and any other relatively new unknown teen.
 

werezompire

Zeboyd Games
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
11,361
So far, the only MCU TV shows I've really liked have been WandaVision, Hawkeye, and Ms. Marvel, which coincidentally had the 3 least popular opening weeks of the lot. I thought Loki was okay but was disappointed it wasn't better, dropped Falcon & the Winter Soldier after one episode, dropped What If after one episode, and never bothered to watch Moon Knight (I was on the fence, but then I saw the scene with the guy speaking completely gibberish and the show calling it Chinese and decided to skip it).

Of the 2 shows I like that have finished, I thought WandaVision had higher highs and lower lows, while Hawkeye started good and slowly got better as it progressed.

Ms. Marvel has a fun cast, great visual design (reminiscent of Mitchells vs. the Machines), the matter-of-fact depiction of Muslim life is interesting, and the couple of brief action scenes so far have been decent. Looking forward to seeing where it goes. If it keeps this level of quality through the entire run, it could take the #1 slot for me.

Oh and I'm in my 40's.
 

Mr Eric

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,141
You can't really blame people. I mean look at the style of the trailer...

...starts with a young teen girl writing in her journal, then talking to her guidance counselor.....with cartoon speech bubbles , love hearts drawn on the screen when talking about/seeing boys, dream sequences about being a superhero, wearing a tiara with glitter falling around her, dream sequences about hot boys with roses in their mouths, devil horns drawn on a girl she doesn't like/doesn't like her.



It screams "not for you" to a good chunk of the usual Marvel audience.
Some slight tonal changes and they could have aimed it at a much wider audience pretty easily.

I'll watch it eventually..but the style from the trailer is offputting.


Same for me. This is how Disney tried to sell it to me, and why I didn't watch it (at least yet). There's also the fact that June is packed with tons of new seasons for shows I was waiting for, so it went really low very fast in my priority list...
 

SnipeyMcGee

Member
Jul 1, 2020
283
I actually liked the trailer for the series as someone not deeply familiar with Ms. Marvel outside of the Avengers game (not a great game, but I liked her role in it). Unfortunately as a show it's just been absolutely mediocre. It may be my least favorite MCU show so far. The low viewership seems deserved.
 

jph139

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,378
What? Teen coming of age is one of my favorite genres, but there's a difference between Disney Channel high school and a show like Sex Education. The demographics they're made for are completely different. Ms. Marvel seems more like a tween show, and that's great, there should be good content for that age group.
Yeah, there is a distinction there that a lot of people miss. For example, I think among Marvel fare, Cloak and Dagger and Runaways are their most blatantly "aimed at a younger demographic" shows, but both have some pretty edgy content - drugs, sex, that sort of thing. Content that you don't usually even get in the PG-13 movies. There's wide gaps between children's shows, "young adult" shows, teen shows...

But, on the record, as someone that had the "is this a Disney Channel show?" concerns before the show actually came out: it's not really aiming at that level. It's not overly goofy, it doesn't avoid complex interpersonal drama, its writing is solid, its content is authentic and not watered down. It's appropriate for children, the same way most MCU content is, but it's not aimed at them to the exclusion of wider demographics. It is solidly in the same "young adult" category as the MCU Spider-Man movies in content and tone.

So yeah, I think marketing let them down a lot here.
 

plagiarize

It's not a loop. It's a spiral.
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
27,544
Cape Cod, MA
I haven't seen any of the marketing so I don't know how they present the show (which possibly speaks in part to what's going on) but having seen the first two episodes I didn't find either of them to be especially heavy in the 'high school drama' component. It's there, but it doesn't feel like the focus. At work currently so can't watch the trailer posted above, but from the description it doesn't sound like it's doing the best job conveying what the show is. You could make Chucky look like a teen drama too, very easily. Just because a story is about a teenager doesn't mean people of all ages can't readily engage with it.

Overall I have to say I find it really charming. I love that it's actually got more visual flair than you see in most Marvel stuff (although the TV shows have been pretty solid there compared to the movies weirdly enough). Stories that simultaneously say 'here's a role model for a demographic that doesn't have one' and 'you can choose to idolize anyone, even if they aren't the same as you' are pretty rare. Same too with stories that say things like 'it's totally okay to not have your future figured out' which while they usually are about teens, it's not like that same message can't be impactful for adults.

I lived in Manchester England for years, and it had a large Muslim population. Heck, the part of Manchester I lived in is now majority Muslim (wasn't quite there when I lived there, but was getting close). I don't know how accurate to US Muslim communities the show is, given that it's written by an English Muslim, but it's really recognizable as the place I called home. I know these people, as they were my friends and neighbors. That's going to be pretty uncommon here in the US.

People need to learn to parse the difference between 'racism helps explain why this show isn't as popular' (which it blatantly does) and 'if you don't like the show you must be racist'. Because no. But... plenty of people disinterested are going to be disinterested or against the show for exactly that reason. It's the same stuff we saw with The Last Jedi. Yes you don't have to be a misogynist not to like the film... but if you try to claim it's not a big reason why that film saw so much online backlash, you have your head completely in the sand.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,966
I love the series so far and I'm not too worried about it. Social media and the internet has shown that, even if a piece media fails initially there's always chances for people to come back and breathe new life into it. There's been a lot of great shows, albums, films.etc fell under the radar upon release only to find an audience and get their flowers later on. As long as Ms. Marvel maintains it's quality then I can see the same happening here. For one, The Marvels come out next year. If Iman kills it in that film, then I can see a lot of folk coming back to the show and regretting not giving it a chance.
 

crienne

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,174
This show really has it all for chuds to have it in their sights:
  • Woman as the lead
  • Young woman as the lead
  • Young woman of color as the lead
  • Young woman of color as the lead with her South Asian family
  • Young woman of color as the lead with her South Asian family who are all Muslim
Not to mention all the full-on, accurate (according to others) Muslim representation outside of the Khan family. Also the, "it's marketed for kids and teens" stuff.

Like, I'm pretty sure adults can enjoy literally any piece of entertainment they want to, regardless of who it's aimed at.
 

Rosebud

Two Pieces
Member
Apr 16, 2018
43,583
I see we still have the mentality that guy stuff are the norm, "girly" is for a specific niche only

Millennials aren't being much better than their parents
 

Teh_Lurv

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,098
I haven't started it yet. With Stranger Things, Better Call Saul, The Boys & Kenobi, it's been on the back burner and I want to watch Multiverse of Madness first when it hits Disney+. I doubt there's any crossover whatsoever there but I want to see MCU chronologically by release.

I'm in the same boat. Too many other shows dropping at the same time are taking up my limited viewing time. I think a lot of people are the same way which I think explains in part the low numbers.
 

Subxero

Member
Oct 25, 2017
611
United States
I've watched with my Mom and Brother. We've enjoyed both episodes and look forward to the rest. Kinda Scott Pilgrim like in the presentation. Just a fun show to watch.
 

Fuzzy

Completely non-threatening
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,130
Toronto
This show really has it all for chuds to have it in their sights:
  • Woman as the lead
  • Young woman as the lead
  • Young woman of color as the lead
  • Young woman of color as the lead with her South Asian family
  • Young woman of color as the lead with her South Asian family who are all Muslim
Not to mention all the full-on, accurate (according to others) Muslim representation outside of the Khan family. Also the, "it's marketed for kids and teens" stuff.

Like, I'm pretty sure adults can enjoy literally any piece of entertainment they want to, regardless of who it's aimed at.
Don't forget that she's a huge fan of Captain Marvel. That's gotta be like 2 or 3 strikes in and of itself for those people. lol
 

Thorrgal

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,319
I have to say I'm not much into the MCU or the Avengers (although I watch it because my friend is very much into it), but I have to say I LOVED the first 2 episodes.

I always preferred the mutant side of Marvel and Spiderman growing up in the 90's, always found it more relatable. Maybe this is similar in that aspect

People just calling it a teen drama is just fucking dum

It has story lines that deal with what is a huge historical point in south eat Asi

It touches on the issues woman POC face in historically patriarchal societie

The smell of not watching and writing it of as a teen drama is stron


I think this is what makes the show work for me tbh, was just talking about it with a friend.
 
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odiin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,727
Don't forget that she's a huge fan of Captain Marvel. That's gotta be like 2 or 3 strikes in and of itself for those people. lol

Not only is the character a big fan of Captaib Marvel, but the actress is a big fan of Brie Larson in real life. They're basically trolling the incels at this point.
 

Mesoian

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
26,486
I had some slight issues with episode 1, but episode 2 blew them all away. This is a really good show thus far and if it stays on this clip, It might be one of their best.
 
Oct 27, 2017
45,179
Seattle
Our Family Loved the hell out of this, felt like a mishmash of Scott Pilgrim, The Red Panda movie and Edge of Seventeen. The Family stuff definitely hit a bit home (Korean here), so I totally connected with this.
 

StereoVSN

Member
Nov 1, 2017
13,620
Eastern US
Yea timing matters too.


I'm sure there would be some of that from some portion of potential viewers. But I think the other factors mentioned + dropping it when some of the biggest shows that audience would be also interested in (Stranger Things, The Boys, Ozark part 2 coming soon, Obi, etc.) have come out at the same time pulling away a lot of that attention away from this project are the bigger factors.

In retrospect, I don't know if I've seen any marketing for this show outside of threads here.
Yep, it dropped into very competitive "time slot". It looks intended for younger audience. It's an unknown (relatively speaking) character and the show doesn't have the star power of Moon Knight.

Also, didn't they change the power set from the comics, so some fans might be upset about that?
 

Foot

Member
Mar 10, 2019
10,882
I haven't started yet but people are concluding its the best mcu show after 2 episodes?
I'm sure everyone is aware it can still fall apart (like Ranking of Kings!!!!), but they're really just saying the first episode was better realized than any other individual episode of other Marvel shows.
 

StereoVSN

Member
Nov 1, 2017
13,620
Eastern US
Don't forget that she's a huge fan of Captain Marvel. That's gotta be like 2 or 3 strikes in and of itself for those people. lol
Out of curiosity, what was wrong with Captain Marvel? Saw it in the theaters and thought it was good but not great Marvel movie. There wasn't anything particularly bad about it though.

Some people just being upset at female lead? If so that's just weird since Wonder Woman (first movie) was pretty popular (and also, good but not great comic book movie).
 

Noppie

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,770
Out of curiosity, what was wrong with Captain Marvel? Saw it in the theaters and thought it was good but not great Marvel movie. There wasn't anything particularly bad about it though.

Some people just being upset at female lead? If so that's just weird since Wonder Woman (first movie) was pretty popular (and also, good but not great comic book movie).
Brie Larson said:

"I don't need a 40-year-old white dude to tell me what didn't work for him," using "A Wrinkle In Time" as an example. "It wasn't made for him! I want to know what that film meant to women of color, to biracial women, to teen women of color."

So, obviously, rage ensued among the usual figures. Had nothing to do with the actual movie.
 

Foot

Member
Mar 10, 2019
10,882
Yeah, that single comment from Brie spawned an entire genre of YouTube videos analyzing her body language and why it meant none of the other Marvel actors liked her
 

DrROBschiz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,492
Kind of bittersweet!

I am glad it is drawing a diverse audience but I think everyone should give it a chance.

Really fun show
 

Memento Mori

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,865
Preach. The dismissal of the show because it's "for a younger audience" while they're all totally fine with Spider-Man navigating high school life is frustrating to say the least.
The difference is tone, it doesn't help that Kamala seems to be written much younger than 16. Compare it to the Stargirl show which is another teenage girl super-hero show. Stargirl is supposed to be younger than Kamala but you don't get the feeling it's intentionally aimed at teenagers like Ms Marvel is. IIRC Stargirl opens with the JSA being murdered, Ms Marvel opens with an animation sequence which made me feel 200 years old.
 

StereoVSN

Member
Nov 1, 2017
13,620
Eastern US
Brie Larson said:

"I don't need a 40-year-old white dude to tell me what didn't work for him," using "A Wrinkle In Time" as an example. "It wasn't made for him! I want to know what that film meant to women of color, to biracial women, to teen women of color."

So, obviously, rage ensued among the usual figures. Had nothing to do with the actual movie.
Interesting, didn't follow any of that, but yeah I can see it triggering some people for whatever reasons.
 

skillzilla81

Self-requested temporary ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,043
You can't really blame people. I mean look at the style of the trailer...

...starts with a young teen girl writing in her journal, then talking to her guidance counselor.....with cartoon speech bubbles , love hearts drawn on the screen when talking about/seeing boys, dream sequences about being a superhero, wearing a tiara with glitter falling around her, dream sequences about hot boys with roses in their mouths, devil horns drawn on a girl she doesn't like/doesn't like her.



It screams "not for you" to a good chunk of the usual Marvel audience.
Some slight tonal changes and they could have aimed it at a much wider audience pretty easily.

I'll watch it eventually..but the style from the trailer is offputting.


This reminds me of the review of Turning Red that said they couldn't relate because it was about a female, asian teenager.
Y'all telling on yourselves.
 

mrmoose

Member
Nov 13, 2017
21,187
This show really has it all for chuds to have it in their sights:
  • Woman as the lead
  • Young woman as the lead
  • Young woman of color as the lead
  • Young woman of color as the lead with her South Asian family
  • Young woman of color as the lead with her South Asian family who are all Muslim
Not to mention all the full-on, accurate (according to others) Muslim representation outside of the Khan family. Also the, "it's marketed for kids and teens" stuff.

Like, I'm pretty sure adults can enjoy literally any piece of entertainment they want to, regardless of who it's aimed at.
Plus she's not traditional "eye candy" so to speak. I think a lot of people are fooling themselves if they say people don't watch "teenage dramas" for the eye candy, it's what the CW is built on, and this show purposefully avoids that (which is great).
 

Instro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,009
Doesn't really feel like there's much of a draw for this show. Content and direction wise it's pretty good, but it's also a bit of a bore so far, and doesn't really have the hooks that previous shows had. I wasn't even aware that it had started airing until episode 2 was already out so it seemingly got buried by Obi Wan a bit. Even on the Disney+ app it didn't seem super clearly advertised.

Maybe this should have been released after The Marvels, rather than before?
 

mreddie

Member
Oct 26, 2017
44,107
Doesn't really feel like there's much of a draw for this show. Content and direction wise it's pretty good, but it's also a bit of a bore so far, and doesn't really have the hooks that previous shows had. I wasn't even aware that it had started airing until episode 2 was already out so it seemingly got buried by Obi Wan a bit. Even on the Disney+ app it didn't seem super clearly advertised.

Maybe this should have been released after The Marvels, rather than before?
More like away from Obi Wan
 

4Tran

Member
Nov 4, 2017
1,531
Doesn't really feel like there's much of a draw for this show. Content and direction wise it's pretty good, but it's also a bit of a bore so far, and doesn't really have the hooks that previous shows had. I wasn't even aware that it had started airing until episode 2 was already out so it seemingly got buried by Obi Wan a bit. Even on the Disney+ app it didn't seem super clearly advertised.

Maybe this should have been released after The Marvels, rather than before?
In an ensemble film like the Marvels, there wouldn't be very much time to devote to Kamala Khan's family. And the thing is, her character is her family, so switching the introduction would cripple her characterization. Besides, Ms. Marvel is one of the best and most visually interesting projects to ever come out of the MCU so it's perfectly fine at standing on its own. Even if the audience is smaller at the beginning, it'll only grow if the quality manages to hold up.
 

Prine

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,724
I'm sure we'll see her Ms Marvel viewership grow once she hits the movies in a big way.
 

Mutedpenguin

Member
Dec 5, 2017
1,161
This reminds me of the review of Turning Red that said they couldn't relate because it was about a female, asian teenager.
Y'all telling on yourselves.
If they used this style of trailer for any show with a teen girl or boy of any race/religion as the lead, I'd be put off. The trailer is clearly aimed to attract a much younger demographic (and by all accounts, that's a good chunk of the demographic they have attracted..which is fine, as I assume that was the idea).
 
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Kunka Kid

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,022
I stopped watching Moon Knight after a couple of episodes and haven't tried Ms. Marvel. I think I'm all Marvel'd out (besides the occasional movie) for a good long while.
 

Fj0823

Legendary Duelist
Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,658
Costa Rica
This reminds me of the review of Turning Red that said they couldn't relate because it was about a female, asian teenager.
Y'all telling on yourselves.

Yep, still waiting for someone to explain me how the ultra dealbreaker of a trailer that makes it look oh so childish



is different from this:



And so far the only thing I'm getting is "You see it's different because I like Spider-Man".

You're not very subtle
 
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Dunbar

Member
Dec 9, 2017
113
Columbus, OH
Watched ep 3 on my lunch break. I think what I want is this show with no superhero stuff. Just Kamala's family, church, friends, etc. The characters and casting all are great and her family cracks me up constantly. Every action scene I'm just thinking, get me back into the mosque or around the dinner table.
 

Kusagari

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,421
The idea that Ms. Marvel is any more for kids than a bunch of other comic stuff these same people probably watch is making me give some real side eye.
 

darkazcura

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,893
The idea that Ms. Marvel is any more for kids than a bunch of other comic stuff these same people probably watch is making me give some real side eye.

I mean I'm Indian American and have been dying for something like this for years (any South Asian American content tbh); I relate to so many of the family dynamics in the first couple episodes down to the subtle ways the family communicates with one another.

But honestly, the trailer did make me and my wife feel like this was really 'childish' compared to other Marvel movies/shows. The episodes didn't do much to change my mind on that either. That's fine, though, I can be a bit of a sucker for high school drama stuff lol.
 

Onebadlion

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,189
.
Yep, still waiting for someone to explain me how the ultra dealbreaker of a trailer that makes it look oh so childish



is different from this:



And so far the only thing I'm getting is "You see it's different because I like Spider-Man"


Brand loyalty and familiarity with the character. People are way more likely to take a chance on a new Spider-Man show or movie, whereas Ms Marvel is largely unknown. If the trailer doesn't resonate for whatever reason, aside from the MCU association, there's not much appeal to a viewer who has never come across the character before.

If you're asking what the difference is between the two trailer you posted, one is for the world's most popular superhero's long awaited MCU debut movie, and the other is a TV show about a relatively unknown superhero. It's really not a fair comparison.
 

Auros01

Avenger
Nov 17, 2017
5,509
There's something about this show that just feels much more lively and endearing than the other MCU D+ shows. It's a bummer that some people won't give it a try.
 

Mesoian

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
26,486
There's something about this show that just feels much more lively and endearing than the other MCU D+ shows. It's a bummer that some people won't give it a try.

They're actually doing what people wanted and are doing a lot to define the world the story lies within. Everything about Kamala's family, her friends, her education, her religion, it's not being half assed or left to be assumed, it's fully developed and fleshed out and becomes the cornerstone of the show, rather than it just being yet another super hero story. It's what every single one of the other netflix shows failed to do. It's really great.

There's still time for it to fall on it's face like most of the other shows do but...it's batting 1000 right now.