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Samuel L. Jackson Responds to Martin Scorsese’s Marvel Comments

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The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
2,178
Denver, Colorado
That's a theme. That's not 22 movies connected by random cameos and post-credit advertisements. I mean come on. This is like expecting Beethoven to go jogging while listening to Taylor Swift. Marvel is fun for us but its not the kind of thing that someone like Scorcese looks for in movies.
And if he said "this isn't the kind of thing I look for in cinema" instead of "this isn't even cinema" I'd have no problem with what he said. I don't give a shit if he doesn't like Iron Man; I do find it dumb for anyone to say the movies they don't like aren't even movies.
 

captainuwu

Member
Aug 14, 2019
80
I wonder if the people calling those who say Scorsese is wrong stans or fanboys or whatever would say the same if Scorsese had said "rap isn't music" or something like that.
Rap is an art form that attracts detractors solely because its tied with minorities and their culture. MCU movies aren't dismissed because of the people creating or enjoying it, they're just low brow art. Come on, don't make such a bad comparison.
 

Romars2021

Member
Nov 1, 2017
224
Like, all Scorsese seemed to really be saying is they are b movies? Do people really disagree with that lol?
Anyways, I'd say comic book movies do have some artistic value, more than he's giving them credit for... but its more in pushing high budget cgi presentation, than anything regarding writing or characters. Thats how they are pushing the art form forward.
 

CloudWolf

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,868
Okay, then pop or whatever. My point still stands.
Still not a very good comparison, as Scorsese doesn't say the MCU aren't movies. That would be silly, as they are very clearly and obviously movies. He sayd that doesn't consider them cinema, which in his eyes (and in the eyes of many film enthousiasts by the way) denotes a form of (high) art; films that straddle deep topics and themes, have a strong focus on character or try to rebel against the status quo. All stuff that the MCU doesn't really do (there are some MCU movies that try to tackle deeper themes, but none of them fully commit, except maybe GotG2).

They're just fun mindless blockbusters that serve a big audience and while there's nothing wrong with that, it's easy to see why someone who has spent an entire career making hugely influential movies that constantly challenge the status quo and is heavily involved in perserving film history, wouldn't consider mass appeal blockbusters that rely heavily on CGI battles 'cinema' (meaning, high art).

To make your comparison better, this would be like Kate Bush saying she doesn't consider Taylor Swift music high art. Which, I think, most people wouldn't really disagree with.


And if he said "this isn't the kind of thing I look for in cinema" instead of "this isn't even cinema" I'd have no problem with what he said. I don't give a shit if he doesn't like Iron Man; I do find it dumb for anyone to say the movies they don't like aren't even movies.
He isn't. The terms 'cinema' and 'movies' have wildly different connotations among film enthousiasts. Saying something isn't cinema (in your opinion) doesn't mean they're not movies.
 

kitress

Member
Oct 27, 2017
317
You think Jaws was seen as a classic beloved by the Academy when it came out? No, it was the first blockbuster that was very popular with the public audience. It got awards for editing and music, not Oscar shit.
It was nominated for Best Picture -- at a time when Best Picture nomination actually meant something, not thank-you-for-participating bullshit.
 

Alice

Member
Nov 2, 2017
4,893
Kubrick wasn't beloved by the Academy either.
And that's why it sucks that some people are trying to use Oscars as a metric for anything.

Some of the most beloved films on this forum were considered absolute schlock back in the day, but the people hyping them like crazy weren't around to see that and jumped on the Hype Wagon of "this is the best ever". They're usually the very same people ragging on MCU films right now, because hey, they're popular, and hating something that's popular is the easiest way to create a Distinct Interesting Personality (TM).

I wonder how many of these same people love Mission Impossible and Fast and the Furious, yet no one ever shits up those threads.
 

Sleuth

Banned
Jul 18, 2019
174
You think Jaws was seen as a classic beloved by the Academy when it came out? No, it was the first blockbuster that was very popular with the public audience. It got awards for editing and music, not Oscar shit.
Maybe that is true, but I don't think any currently released MCU movie is ever going to be considered the classic Jaws is today. Nor should it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,130
Gunn's quote is ridiculous. He's straight up creating an equivalence between the extreme reaction of evangelicals to The Last Temptation of Christ (which even resulted in an actual attack on a cinema), with Martin Scorsese saying he personally doesn't enjoy MCU films.
Can't speak to the Gunn stuff as I completely missed whatever that was about, but you know this isn't true as you yourself admitted in your previous post (that this is a high art/low art discussion), so not sure why you're falling back on the "he only said he didn't like them" thing now. Not that it sounds like it matters much for Gunn's statement and I don't care much for that either way (just sounds like it would lead to a huge mess of a derail anyway), but everybody knows this isn't about him only saying he doesn't like the films so tyst isn't quite right either
 

unicornKnight

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,706
Athens, Greece
Gunn's quote is ridiculous. He's straight up creating an equivalence between the extreme reaction of evangelicals to The Last Temptation of Christ (which even resulted in an actual attack on a cinema), with Martin Scorsese saying he personally doesn't enjoy MCU films.
Νο, the equivalence was having an opinion on something you haven't watched.

Gunn comparing religious fanatism with scorsese shitting on a film.
Lol guess that tweet was really hard to understand, I should feel like a genius.
 

Romars2021

Member
Nov 1, 2017
224
Νο, the equivalence was having an opinion on something you haven't watched.


Lol guess that tweet was really hard to understand, I should feel like a genius.
You're recontextualizing it, but its the same take. He's comparing a very benign dismissal with religious extremism. Like one leads to the other. He does then say he's not doing that, cause its easier than saying 'oops nvm didn't think that through'.
To be fair, I don't think gunn read Scorsese's actual words cause his response is too emotional for it.
 

barit

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
876
what on earth does that mean? raimi's spider-man wasn't mainstream? burton's batman? hell, superman in the 70s?
Geez you probably know exactly what the poster meant. When you read X-Men #315 where they meet Silver Surver for the first time you mostly have a small box in the corner that reads: "Want to find out more about Silver Surver? See Fantastic Four #102!". That´s totally new in the cinema space and MCU did it perfect. You don´t need to see all 21 movies for Endgame but it gives you so much more depth if you do because everything is connnneeected. :D
 

nachum00

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,715
Geez you probably know exactly what the poster meant. When you read X-Men #315 where they meet Silver Surver for the first time you mostly have a small box in the corner that reads: "Want to find out more about Silver Surver? See Fantastic Four #102!". That´s totally new in the cinema space and MCU did it perfect. You don´t need to see all 21 movies for Endgame but it gives you so much more depth if you do because everything is connnneeected. :D
Lame people like Kevin Smith were already doing this shit years before the MCU. The whole shared cinematic universe thing has been around since the 1940s. The only thing the MCU has done is do it on a much grander scale.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fictional_shared_universes_in_film_and_television
 
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Big_Blue

Member
Dec 12, 2017
1,667
My biggest issue with Scorcese was the he painted all comic book movies with a broad brush (Gunn's point). Black Panther didn't connect with people??? What he said wasn't gatekeeping, it was self-admitted ignorance.
 

CloudWolf

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,868
Can't speak to the Gunn stuff as I completely missed whatever that was about, but you know this isn't true as you yourself admitted in your previous post (that this is a high art/low art discussion), so not sure why you're falling back on the "he only said he didn't like them" thing now. Not that it sounds like it matters much for Gunn's statement and I don't care much for that either way (just sounds like it would lead to a huge mess of a derail anyway), but everybody knows this isn't about him only saying he doesn't like the films so tyst isn't quite right either
Those two aren't separate though. In his opinion, the MCU movies aren't what he would categorise as 'cinema', this implies that he doesn't like them because they simply don't fit in his idea of what cinema should be. Too many people are misreading what Scorsese says and make his statement into some grand statement on what is and isn't cinema, he isn't. I know plenty of (older) people working in film that hold similar ideas about film and cinema and simply don't bother with big studio movies because they just don't like those types of movies.


Νο, the equivalence was having an opinion on something you haven't watched.
He specifically drew the comparison though by saying that Martin Scorsese 'is doing the same thing' to his films as the picketers were doing to The Last Temptation, which simply isn't true.

The case with The Last Temptation of Christ also wasn't that people 'had an opinion' on it without watching the movie, it was with religious extremists who wanted to ban the movie and, as I pointed out, were even in one case willing to resort to violence. This is one guy holding the, apparently extremely controversial, opinion that he doesn't consider the MCU worth of his time.
 

Just_a_Mouse

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,918
Tbh I've enjoyed the MCU more than anything Scorcese has done in years. Solid legacy, but now he just sounds old and out of touch. It happens.
 
Dec 21, 2018
104
A good film is a good film, regardless of genre or whether or not it tackles deep topics. Not all MCU films are great, but as a whole they’re far from “mindless“ or low art as some Devil’s advocates are saying here. Most of them had a lot of work and love put into them.

Posting obnoxious Goodfellas gifs isn’t helping any case either.