Yes, there are ways Biden doesn't win.
No one has caucused or cast a single vote yet, so nothing is locked in
Let's not forget the "narrative" in '07 and how that turned out.
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Sanders finally differentiating himself from Warren: "...she's capitalist through her bones. I'm not."
- Thread starter brainchild
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Yes, there are ways Biden doesn't win.
No one has caucused or cast a single vote yet, so nothing is locked in
Let's not forget the "narrative" in '07 and how that turned out.
Trying to stay optimistic, but in reality a contested convention sounds like a real possibility, and (if I'm understanding what I'm reading) the delegates can choose whoever the hell they want if this happens. There's next to no chance they'd pick Sanders or Warren if given that opportunity imo.
But you're right everything is up in the air right now. Not much of a point in worrying about that just yet.
I mean, if we are throwing around hypothetical scenarios, the key to a brokered convention is the brokering.
let's say it's a three way split, give or take. It's easy to see a brokered deal in that scenario where Warren/Sanders delegates join forces to put one or the other over the top.
Not really. Bernie would be my top choice. Warren would be my number two.
Your bias against bernie supporters only serves as an example of bias against bernie supporters
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I don't know anyone who would vote for a self proclaimed socialist, this is only strengthening the Warren support in my circles.
Absolutely, there hasn't been a single caucus or primary yet. The race is wide open.
We should avoid making the same mistake every election that a 4% lead in the polls means a 100% surefire guaranteed election victory. There's a narrative from 2016 that "the polls were wrong!" and they weren't, the polls were right, we were wrong for thinking that a ~60% likelihood of winning an election really meant that there was a 100% likelihood.
I think ideologically this is true at least. In effect, their platforms are both attempting to reform some of the excesses of the current capitalist system, with Bernie being more radical. Warren may be more acceptible to some people, but Bernie point blank has articulated a more radical platform. That is what is needed, considering how regressive the US at a federal level currently is politically, socially and partcularly economically.
Jesus F Christ. You're defending a racist as fuck video, because he cut together a nice clip of Sanders?
He was let go because of said racist as fuck video, but only after the campaign temporarily doubled down on the hiring.
Because it's a clown show.
The biggest differentiator between Sanders and Warren is that she's a competent executive who doesn't surround herself with garbage people.
technically the key to a brokered convention is the delegate split playing out in a way that literally hasn't happened in the entire primary era
This right here is why Bernie is my first choice, and I wish he'd beat this drum more. Warren would have been an excellent candidate in 2000/2004 or even 2008. I think capitalism has failed completely by this point, and I don't think her solutions, while better than the Obama-Clinton liberal wing of the party, go far enough to address income inequality and the plight of the American working and middle classes. We need radical change now, and that's what Bernie stands for. I'll still go to vote for Warren in the general election, despite her being a capitalist, because I do believe she's a principled progressive on domestic policy, but Sanders remains the better choice for leftists.
You know, ultimately I don't want Bernie to abolish the free market. I simply want him to reduce it to the size where he can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub.
You know, ultimately I don't want Bernie to abolish the free market. I simply want him to reduce it to the size where he can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub.
If anything this just furthers my opinion that Sanders is more of a ideologue than Warren. Change within the system is better than a radical change of system, and if the change within the system results in a shift of thought and ultimately to Socialism, then OK it was meant to be.
I'd like to point out that you spent half this thread doing exactly what Sanders fears, so I don't blame him for not calling himself a Socialist.
I don't think we should lower our standards of team-building because of one terrible fluke.
I'd like to point out that you spent half this thread doing exactly what Sanders fears, so I don't blame him for not calling himself a Socialist.
I don't think we should lower our standards of team-building because of one terrible fluke.
I'm not going to sink to your pretend outrage levels to go after Warren here, but that statement is false. Use google to read about an issue with a senior staff member of hers from just a week or two ago. And yes of course they were fired. I'm so very shocked you didn't hear about it! Every campaign I'm sure has their issues. That's just reality. Try to not let the media distort it.
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seems like the fact that you can't even recall that Warren ex-staffer's name offhand is more telling than the fact that he got fired in the first place in terms of "being a competent executive"
(because that got taken care of before it could become a distraction, unlike seemingly every single Sanders hiring decision)
(because that got taken care of before it could become a distraction, unlike seemingly every single Sanders hiring decision)
Where did I say I can't recall the name? I didn't say the name and I didn't post a link because I respect Warren and I'd much rather fix the country than take ridiculous snipes at a candidate who is trying to do the same.
yeah, okay
not like my entire point is that even the overwhelming majority of Extremely Online people would be hard pressed to tell me who Rich McDaniel was because the Warren campaign takes care of this shit before it can overshadow anything, whereas Sanders staffers seem to relish in saying clown shit
like, comments on exercises of executive power like hiring decisions & how to handle anything that threatens to detract from your message aren't "ridiculous snipes" just because Sanders has demonstrated poor acumen at both for two cycles in a row
not like my entire point is that even the overwhelming majority of Extremely Online people would be hard pressed to tell me who Rich McDaniel was because the Warren campaign takes care of this shit before it can overshadow anything, whereas Sanders staffers seem to relish in saying clown shit
like, comments on exercises of executive power like hiring decisions & how to handle anything that threatens to detract from your message aren't "ridiculous snipes" just because Sanders has demonstrated poor acumen at both for two cycles in a row
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I'm completely aware of the senior staffer being fired. Complaints were laid about their behaviour. And they were dealt with professionally and promptly. The campaign did not double down on keeping around the bad apple.
Your whataboutism would work better if McDaniel had been accused of inappropriate behaviour and then Warren hired him, and/or doubled down on keeping him on the campaign.
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Holy shit, the media is extremely toxic. Nowhere in that video did he attack Warren, slam or disrespect her, or whatever verb you want to use. He literally answered the interviewer's question, and he quoted Warren herself who called herself a "capitalist through her bones", and he doesn't view himself that way. He didn't call her that. The interviewer asked for the difference between the two, and he says that she views herself like that, but he doesn't. He sees that as a difference. That's it. He even replies to attempts by the interviewer to stir shit up with "She's a good friend of mine, you should ask her." Yet here we are, 10 pages deep, accusing Bernie of hypocrisy, when he literally didn't say a single thing wrong.
And of course, the media ran wild with it, all framing it in a way like Bernie called Warren a capitalist through her bones, when he just said that's how she referred to herself.
Sanders draws line between himself and Warren: A 'capitalist to her bones'
Sanders Says Rival Warren Is 'Capitalist Through Her Bones'
Sanders says rival Warren is 'capitalist through her bones'
Sanders on difference with Warren: she's a capitalist 'I'm not'
Bernie Sanders slams Elizabeth Warren as 'capitalist'
And of course, the media ran wild with it, all framing it in a way like Bernie called Warren a capitalist through her bones, when he just said that's how she referred to herself.
Sanders draws line between himself and Warren: A 'capitalist to her bones'
Sanders Says Rival Warren Is 'Capitalist Through Her Bones'
Sanders says rival Warren is 'capitalist through her bones'
Sanders on difference with Warren: she's a capitalist 'I'm not'
Bernie Sanders slams Elizabeth Warren as 'capitalist'
^ Yeah that's why I didn't like this threads title
Here's Sanders' plan for corporate accountability and democracy https://berniesanders.com/issues/corporate-accountability-and-democracy/
Here's Sanders' plan for corporate accountability and democracy https://berniesanders.com/issues/corporate-accountability-and-democracy/
Wow you're a super fast reader. And Warrens plan unsurprisingly doesn't go as far...so....
just fyi I was ribbing Bronx-Man's super disingenuous thread title from the other day, not Bernie's plan
Ohhh. Ok. Sorry. Just saw that they were banned no idea what it was about
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One of her current surrogates is under fire for some pretty disgusting tweets she made, but this thread is not about her, so we're not even gonna go there.
If I were petty, I could call out people in Warren's camp, but I'm sure their campaign will figure out what needs to be done, and I know that those things aren't representative of the campaign's values.
Also, if we can't stay on topic I'm requesting this thread to be locked.
If that's the only difference between the two that's a pretty weak differentiator, especially in the US.
Like the Left can gloat all it wants about being the most socialist in this corporate hell world they call the USA but if Warren's campaign isn't totally incompetent there's gonna be Warren ads with this sound bite doing the rounds in the primary.
If Sanders gets the nom this clip is gonna be used by the GoP if it's dealing with whatever BS that orange is throwing at them.
Like the Left can gloat all it wants about being the most socialist in this corporate hell world they call the USA but if Warren's campaign isn't totally incompetent there's gonna be Warren ads with this sound bite doing the rounds in the primary.
If Sanders gets the nom this clip is gonna be used by the GoP if it's dealing with whatever BS that orange is throwing at them.
Don't care for him as a presidential candidate.. have never cared for him. He's got no chance but I can see why he's going down swinging for better or for worse. Just ready for all this to be over with so Democrats can stop taking shots at one another (not that this is much of one) and get focused on the real issue at hand.
This isn't the GoP, you'll see people taking a whole wide shit on whoever even years after the candidate's/president's bones are dust.
It can be the perfect candidate that saves us from Turbo Trump Prime and climate change, finally unleashing world peace while finding a cancer cure and discovering interplanetary travel, you will still find people discussing faults and claiming that that other candidate was better.
Reassuringly enough finding faults in candidates (and I mean ALL candidates not just people that aren't your favorite) is a sane thing to do.
Hopefully we can come back to the sane days of criticizing Obama for not being forceful enough instead of this hellscape.
Vox made an explainer on it, maybe open another thread if you want to talk about it.
There's no point.
People either don't actually watch the clip, or purposefully frame it disingenuously. Your correction about what actually happened will be ignored, and people will continue to use this thread to talk about something that didn't happen and words that weren't even said.
:/ Harry reid is someone i dont feel comfortable being associated with Warren. Especially because she is attempting to sell her progressive nature in certain cases. Him saying she would not fight for Medicare for all because "let's protect obamacare" and "the public option is just as good as medicare for all anyway" is straight out of Biden's playbook...i dont know how much reid knows about Warren but saying he knows "she's not in love with universal programs" like M4A in general makes my head hurt.
If Warren becomes the nominee, its gonna be twice as important for leftists to double down on putting pressure on her to double down on supporting leftist reforms that actually are substantive and not to bend to the will of neoliberal forces.
We've been spending pages going over Bernie's campaign, no reason we can't compare it to Warren's - another candidate who's directly tied to this thread, it's not like people are bringing up Biden out of nowhere.
Then do it, so far all I've seen is Bernie having a truckload of bad hires. I'd love to see how they compare.
Don't shut down the thread because Warren had the audacity not to be running a shitty campaign with her hiring decisions. You're too trigger happy at doing this when you don't think a thread is going where you want it to. Have conviction, present a stronger case for Bernie.
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If you thought you were going to goad me into doing something I said I wasn't going to do by making strawman arguments that you'd expect me to challenge, it's not going to work. And no, I have my threads locked when they show no indication of staying on topic, which I will absolutely do if that remains the case in this thread. If you want to discuss Warren's (or Bernie's) bad hires, do it in another thread.
Interesting tactic you have there. Thread talking about the differences between Warren and Bernie, as the title states, but can't talk about the bad differences. 'If you do, ill just lock the thread! Case closed!'
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Absolutely not. The problem isn't discussing differences between Sanders and Warren, it's getting into long, drawn out discussions about their surrogates. You can make a point about a candidate making bad hires. What we will NOT do is have a 10 page discussion about every little mis-step one of said candidate's surrogates made over the course of their lives. This is not the thread for that and this is my last post about this.
Wait, this wasn't even a shot at Warren. Warren self-identifies as a capitalist and Bernie self-identifies as a socialist.
There are several things still different between the two.
Bernie is all in on M4A/Warren is wishy washy on it.
Bernie wants to wipe all student loan debts/Warren doesn't.
Bernie didn't vote to give Trump an increase in military budget/Warren did.
Bernie had no reasons to evolved much/Warren did.
Bernie didn't lie about his heritage/Warren did.
Warren possibly lied about a pregnancy firing.
Warren is my #2, but it's about time we stop pretending they are carbon copies of each other.
There are several things still different between the two.
Bernie is all in on M4A/Warren is wishy washy on it.
Bernie wants to wipe all student loan debts/Warren doesn't.
Bernie didn't vote to give Trump an increase in military budget/Warren did.
Bernie had no reasons to evolved much/Warren did.
Bernie didn't lie about his heritage/Warren did.
Warren possibly lied about a pregnancy firing.
Warren is my #2, but it's about time we stop pretending they are carbon copies of each other.
I'm not trying to goad you into anything and it's not a straw man when it's true. I do, however, expect you to have conviction to stand up when your ideas are challenged rather than locking threads because they were mean to Bernie.
Wrong, you've gone ballistic before in threads that went in directions you didn't like and this isn't the first time you've threaded to lock a thread because they were "off-topic" IE made Bernie look bad by going down a certain road. If you truly felt this about being off-topic you'd have been throwing that around when people were arguing about Bernie's campaign but silence. Now Warren's is bought up to comparison, it's time to shut down the thread.
I'd love to, except I can't do that because any threads I make about the left are shut down or ignored by the forum. Kirblar, if you're reading, would you be interested? You have better luck at me with those threads.
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I actually have no problem with this comparison. Warren's unfavorables being lower than Bernie's is certainly a difference between both candidates and one could make the argument that she's the less divisive candidate for the Democratic Party based on many different metrics. Either way, it further proves the point that Sanders and Warren aren't interchangeable, regardless of whether it's a point in favor of Sanders or Warren.
