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Scott Benson details his history with Alec Holowka

muteKi

Member
Oct 22, 2018
8,620
a sunken pirate ship
I'm going to do you a favor and look past your comparison to slavery or blood sacrifices because it's 2019 and nearly worldwide everyone is in agreement both of those things are bad.
Haha, yeah. Being charitable with the reading "people are abusive because society is abusive" is maybe not an incorrect take per se, but it's a weird thing to say in a climate when so many people in power are so openly abusive and the rest of us are limited in our recourse to hold them accountable. We cannot escape the conclusion that society is abusive because abusive people have so thoroughly shaped it.
 

whatsarobot

Member
Nov 17, 2017
366
For this to make sense you have to believe that him taking his life is a result of people reactions and not Alec deciding to end his life to absolve himself from facing the fucked up things he did, just like he threatened to do for that very reason, repeatedly apparently.
He took his life because he was mentally ill. He acted horribly, no denying that, but suicide isn't a logical escape from bad decisions. It's what sick people do.
 

headspawn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,804
He took his life because he was mentally ill. He acted horribly, no denying that, but suicide isn't a logical escape from bad decisions. It's what sick people do.
You're saying this as if you've just had a 1-on-1 with his psychiatrist or something.

There is no universal reason why people choose to take their own lives.
 

anexanhume

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,749
Yep but Louis CK isn’t a tenth as successful as he was before the allegations came to ligjt
He’s stealth touring. Selling out shows with 48 hours notice. I’d bet he’s going to put out a special and it will do pretty well. The sentiment I’ve seen around is that most people just don’t care.
 

whatsarobot

Member
Nov 17, 2017
366
You're saying this as if you've just had a 1-on-1 with his psychiatrist or something.

There is no universal reason why people choose to take their own lives.
I just have no words for this shit. He posted excessively about mental health issues, which does not undo or justify the damage and abuse he caused, but does give some context for why he killed himself.

The lack of empathy from some posters is shocking. Empathy for Zoe and any who were abused, yes of course, but we can also have empathy for sick people who do bad things.
 

Just_a_Mouse

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,885
I just have no words for this shit. He posted excessively about mental health issues, which does not undo or justify the damage and abuse he caused, but does give some context for why he killed himself.

The lack of empathy from some posters is shocking. Empathy for Zoe and any who were abused, yes of course, but we can also have empathy for sick people who do bad things.
Why should we reserve empathy for people that do horrible things? They should be scrutinized in the light so we can learn from their actions, but empathy? Nah, don't have none of that for serial abusers.
 
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headspawn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,804
I just have no words for this shit. He posted excessively about mental health issues, which does not undo or justify the damage and abuse he caused, but does give some context for why he killed himself.

The lack of empathy from some posters is shocking. Empathy for Zoe and any who were abused, yes of course, but we can also have empathy for sick people who do bad things.
Not sure why you're directing that to me, I have no animosity for the guy; I think it's fucked up what he did, I also think it's messed up that the way it ended. But to suggest it's other peoples fault he took his life for thinking what he did was awful is some outta leftfield nonsense.
 

Karlinel

Member
Nov 10, 2017
1,048
Why should we empathy for people that do horrible things? They should be scrutinized in the light, but empathy? Nah, don't have none of that for serial abusers.
Dude, if you just show empathy for those who are simpathetic to you, you are behaving tribaly. And I’m NOT defending Holowka at all, he shouldn’t have done what he did and should have not killed himself and instead defend himself and face the consequences of his actions. But I do feel sorry for him and the way he ended. I guess compassion is a profesional deformation for me.
 

spineduke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,136
I don't believe he had the capacity to become a better person, he had several years with several opportunities to do so, all while abusing many more people along the way.
Everyone has the capacity to become a better person, its why we try. Don't pitch up this sort of absolutist talk, its harmful.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
31,985
Everyone has the capacity to become a better person, its why we try. Don't pitch up this sort of absolutist talk, its harmful.
Everyone has the capacity to become a better person. The question is did Alec WANT to?

Again, I am speaking from a place of bias when I say this, but when I see someone who was a serial abuser for a decade who acted like he was improving but secretly just moved on to other targets for his abuse, I don't see someone who actually, truly wanted to improve as a human being. I just see someone who figured out how to game the system. Just like my damn brother.
 

Jessie

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,963
Everyone has the capacity to become a better person, its why we try. Don't pitch up this sort of absolutist talk, its harmful.
I want to believe this. But what really tests my faith are people who pretend to be getting better in order to further manipulate and hurt others.

At what point do you simply give up on them?
 

spineduke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,136
Everyone has the capacity to become a better person. The question is did Alec WANT to?
We'll never really know - Scott himself doesn't have a full picture. I took issue with the initial statement, because you can't operate a social safety net on the basis that some people need to be written off society. Even the most hopeless of cases need a little hope to get on by. Maybe not from you or me, but the system has to give back.

At what point do you simply give up on them?
When you feel your own sense of mental and physical wellbeing is at risk - its time to move on.
 

Hero

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,332
Everyone has the capacity to become a better person, its why we try. Don't pitch up this sort of absolutist talk, its harmful.
We'll never really know - Scott himself doesn't have a full picture. I took issue with the initial statement, because you can't operate a social safety net on the basis that some people need to be written off society. Even the most hopeless of cases need a little hope to get on by. Maybe not from you or me, but the system has to give back.
When you feel your own sense of mental and physical wellbeing is at risk - its time to move on.
There are some people that are beyond help and don't want to be better. I'm sorry if that idea is scary to you. It's funny to me that you say it's okay to move on when you feel yourself at risk but that's not how Alec operated, as explicitly stated by multiple victims of his.
 

Gestault

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,388
At what point do you simply give up on them?
When they're consciously a threat to others (in the sense of being a manipulative predator), the only reasonable thing to do it separate yourself from them, and warn others away from them. They can choose to change and grow from there, and forgiveness comes after, depending on the individual. It's specifically not someone's job to enable and insulate ongoing wrongdoing, whether it's a personal relationship or a publc figure. Specifically, this isn't "giving up on someone," but ironically that corruption of good intentions is one of the pressure points we know Holowka leveraged against those around him.

It needs to be repeated the many opportunities Holowka had to change, and made the conscious choice not to, while also cruelly using the idea of his mental health to manipulate other victims. This was not someone who relented, regreted, or even simply stopped his abuse of others. This is not the person you artificially humanize as an intellectual exercise because it makes you feel better.
 

Love Machine

Member
Oct 29, 2017
732
Tokyo, Japan
Terrible situation all round. Condolences for the family and those close to Alec (we'll probably never know what they went through, let alone towards the end).
I also respect those who've spoken out, including Scott. They've been incredibly brave, and I hope their accounts enable others to have courage and recover.

The vast majority of us on here are outsiders, and we're lucky to have this much context available. We're free to ingest the info as we please, and everyone will have their own idea about what to take away from it; but this is a very sensitive subject about human life. This isn't the time for hot takes and "yeah buts". Just accept everyone is dealing with the situation differently, and ultimately we have no right to judge when we're just strangers looking in.

If you must judge, do it internally. Process it, and let it help you become a better person.
 

spineduke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,136
There are some people that are beyond help and don't want to be better. I'm sorry if that idea is scary to you. It's funny to me that you say it's okay to move on when you feel yourself at risk but that's not how Alec operated, as explicitly stated by multiple victims of his.
You seem to be conflating different points - this isn't about ideas being scary, its about systems being accountable. Outright condemnation doesn't exist in a social safety net. You are perpetuating a mindthink that applies on a personal scale - and I've already made clear that individuals like you and me aren't in a capacity to help. I'm agreeing with you on a subtext, but the whole concept of "beyond redemption" is one that perpetuates harm for people and those around them who feel they have nothing left to lose.
 
Oct 27, 2017
348
There's a site going around, [REDACTED - alt-right-affiliated], circulating screenshots supposedly from Holowka "proving" that Quinn abused him during their time together rather than the other way around. It's a right-leaning site, though, and other people (including Benson, as this very thread links to!) have come forward about Holowka's behavior. At best, it sounds like Quinn and Holowka's relationship was simply all kinds of toxic. :/
 
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Sankara

Alt Account
Banned
May 19, 2019
1,311
Paris
There's a site going around, The Post Millenial, circulating screenshots supposedly from Holowka "proving" that Quinn abused him during their time together rather than the other way around. It's a right-leaning site, though, and other people (including Benson, as this very thread links to!) have come forward about Holowka's behavior. At best, it sounds like Quinn and Holowka's relationship was simply all kinds of toxic. :/
At best you shouldn't believe everything you read and especially you shouldn't believe anything from some Breitbart-like website and *especially* you shouldn't be saying shit about Quinn's relationship or them as a person when they were Gamergate's #1 harassment target and all the gamer nazis are salivating at trying to spread as much FUD as possible so that even a little of it is taken up by naive people who end up reproducing the narrative that there's something wrong with Quinn.

I'd rather you just don't mention that site since simply addressing it gives it an air of legitimacy when it's the gamer nazis favorite outlet.
 
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Oct 27, 2017
348
At best you shouldn't believe everything you read and especially you shouldn't believe anything from some Breitbart-like website and *especially* you shouldn't be saying shit about Quinn's relationship or them as a person when they were Gamergate's #1 harassment target and all the gamer nazis are salivating at trying to spread as much FUD as possible so that even a little of it is taken up by naive people who end up reproducing the narrative that there's something wrong with Quinn.

I'd rather you just don't mention that site since simply addressing it gives it an air of legitimacy when it's the gamer nazis favorite outlet.
I hadn't heard of the site before, but I could tell it definitely leaned right. I just wanted to post it since I've already had some jerk on Kotaku harassing me over it. If they're true, we shouldn't try to say that Quinn is perfect or anything, but even if they're true that doesn't negate the fact that Quinn's been harassed for so long, nor the fact that Benson and others have mentioned Holowka's behavior. Figured it would be important enough to raise here seeing as it had screenshots with the post, though, whether fake or real.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,641
Brooklyn, NY
I subjected myself to that dumb article and what it basically boils down to is "Quinn sounded happy on Twitter during her relationship with Holowka, so it couldn't have actually been abusive." garbage
 

Gestault

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,388
I hadn't heard of the site before, but I could tell it definitely leaned right. I just wanted to post it since I've already had some jerk on Kotaku harassing me over it. If they're true, we shouldn't try to say that Quinn is perfect or anything, but even if they're true that doesn't negate the fact that Quinn's been harassed for so long, nor the fact that Benson and others have mentioned Holowka's behavior. Figured it would be important enough to raise here seeing as it had screenshots with the post, though, whether fake or real.
You're spreading what appears to be misinformation from an untrustworthy source, and aren't even confident that it's real yourself. I strongly recommend against this, particularly given the situation and topic. To the point where unless you feel strongly it's somehow important and reliable, I would edit your post to eliminate the path back to the (seeming) propaganda from a site you say you never heard of before sharing.

And to be perfectly transparent, anyone coming into these conversations insisting on saying "we shouldn't try to say that Quinn is perfect or anything" (even as part of a longer, theoretically well-meaning statement) makes me incredibly wary. Double that up with spreading unprompted bad info, and you can probably imagine why there's scrutiny.
 
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the_wart

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,368
I hadn't heard of the site before, but I could tell it definitely leaned right. I just wanted to post it since I've already had some jerk on Kotaku harassing me over it. If they're true, we shouldn't try to say that Quinn is perfect or anything, but even if they're true that doesn't negate the fact that Quinn's been harassed for so long, nor the fact that Benson and others have mentioned Holowka's behavior. Figured it would be important enough to raise here seeing as it had screenshots with the post, though, whether fake or real.
Are you seriously was-no-angel-ing this situation on the basis of alt-right clickbait? Kindly fuck off with that post-haste.
 

Mobyduck

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,411
Brazil
I subjected myself to that dumb article and what it basically boils down to is "Quinn sounded happy on Twitter during her relationship with Holowka, so it couldn't have actually been abusive." garbage
It's very clear the author of that article doesn't know what it means to be in an abusive relationship. Nothing there contradicts what Quinn has said, and it's quite upsetting, though not unsurprising, that people are trying to discredit Quinn.

tinyhipsterboy I'd recommend removing the name of the website. They don't need more clicks and we don't need to be spreading that kind of shit in here.
 
Oct 27, 2017
348
Are you seriously was-no-angel-ing this situation on the basis of alt-right clickbait? Kindly fuck off with that post-haste.
I'm... not doing that though? I'm saying if it's true, that doesn't mean Holowka wasn't abusive, and I mentioned the clickbait so people would be aware of the newest tactic Quinn's harassers are using.

And to be perfectly transparent, anyone comes into these conversations insists on saying how "we shouldn't try to say that Quinn is perfect or anything" (even as part of a longer, theoretically well-meaning statement) makes me incredibly wary. Double that up with spreading unprompted bad info, and you can probably imagine why there's scrutiny.
Nah, I get that why you'd side-eye what I said. I was just trying to say that if this was somehow true, we shouldn't try to downplay that; we don't want to be as bad as the people defending the abuse, y'know? I'll edit that first post though, I knew it was right-leaning but wasn't aware it was GG-affiliated. Figured it'd be good to let people know that's going around, though, since it'll likely be used to try and discredit Quinn (even though she's not the only one who spoke out about Holowka). The screenshots are primarily Holowka saying he feels like he couldn't say things, but as we know, abusers will often play the victim anyway. :/
 

Shaneus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,844
I subjected myself to that dumb article and what it basically boils down to is "Quinn sounded happy on Twitter during her relationship with Holowka, so it couldn't have actually been abusive." garbage
Yeah, it's absolute horseshit, that article. Thankfully given that most people never seem to have even heard of that site, it won't get any more publicity (than it's unfortunately received here). Full of BS gotcha moments which all add up to a big fat fucking nothing.
 

spineduke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,136
Yeah, it's absolute horseshit, that article. Thankfully given that most people never seem to have even heard of that site, it won't get any more publicity (than it's unfortunately received here). Full of BS gotcha moments which all add up to a big fat fucking nothing.
To add, its not just Quinn, multiple people have corroborated Alex's behavior.

Which of course, nobody can address. All they want to do is sling shit at Quinn and see how much sticks. That self righteous incel anger.