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Ziltoidia 9

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,143
Latest evaluation on Blacklist was another 7/10. The reviewer did a really good deconstruction of it, in terms of looking at the subtext in critique, which helps me know what I need to tone down on.

Time to put it into a blender and see what my mind puts out in terms of edits.

Not happy about the Twilight comparison though....
 

Ziltoidia 9

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,143
K general question for endings.

I've written an alt ending that is more generic/accessible (A bit more open ending and apt to the horror genre). I'm afraid people might say "Oh look, it sets up a sequel, yay..."

The original ending is much more metaphysical/existential.

My question is, does anyone else struggle with endings/rewriting them? I don't know if I should commit yet, because I'm it might just me being tired of the way I had it ending it in the first place, and I guess I'm weary that I just feel like I want to do something new with it.

Tone wise I think either ending works, since the whole piece is kind of this meld of drama and teen adventure.

Anyone have insight in how I should judge either on?

Side note: Alt ending cuts about 20 pages, which helps on cost considerations.
 

Ghost_Messiah

Member
Oct 27, 2017
637
Latest evaluation on Blacklist was another 7/10. The reviewer did a really good deconstruction of it, in terms of looking at the subtext in critique, which helps me know what I need to tone down on.

Time to put it into a blender and see what my mind puts out in terms of edits.

Not happy about the Twilight comparison though....

Just wanted to note dude that a 7/10 on the Blacklist is amazing so you did an incredible job! The vast, vast majority of screenplays can't get to that number as they're so super professionally harsh on there so your work and constant iteration is paying off and your script is evolving and becoming better. Regarding endings (your second post) that metaphysical/existential ending you've alluded to sounds way more creative, inventive and interesting (and perhaps fitting?) than one that would set up a sequel, and thus is artistically weaker and cliched IMO.

Go with your gut instinct and stick with the more intriguing existential one. Hope this helps.
 

Ziltoidia 9

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,143
Just wanted to note dude that a 7/10 on the Blacklist is amazing so you did an incredible job! The vast, vast majority of screenplays can't get to that number as they're so super professionally harsh on there so your work and constant iteration is paying off and your script is evolving and becoming better. Regarding endings (your second post) that metaphysical/existential ending you've alluded to sounds way more creative, inventive and interesting (and perhaps fitting?) than one that would set up a sequel, and thus is artistically weaker and cliched IMO.

Go with your gut instinct and stick with the more intriguing existential one. Hope this helps.

I keep trying to meld the two, the main problem is I went from an "every dies" ending to a "everyone lives, but the world has changed and a new adventure can be had" type ending.

The rewrite was always a backup plan I had, so there were bits and pieces in the rest of the piece that were put to support it in case it happened.

The main problem is I changed probably the most character-intensive scene to something I really like, and I just don't know if I should have it end so bleak anymore.
 

UrbanDandy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,452
I love making movies, but unfortunately, I find writing screenplays to be boring. How do I write for timing?
 
Oct 27, 2017
17,443
I've been going through some stuff lately and I totally forgot I ordered a Blacklist evaluation, which just arrived. I'm too afraid to read it since I can't handle getting my ass kicked again. :O
 

Deleted member 3542

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,889
High Righters

Just linking to the 2018 Launchpad Competition that just opened up.

If you plan to jump in now, and think you'll be the first 200 or whatever, use the code EARLYBIRD18 for $10 off entry fee.

I'm on the fence myself on entering. I have a script that is set up with a director attached, but I'm not repped and I think it'd be my best shot because it seems to be the one that gets me (or got me) in the most rooms and people like a lot.

I also have another script that used to be set up that people tend to like, but I rewrote it recently and waiting to get feedback from some fellow writers and filmmakers before going forward as there's some significant changes I've done. It got me in rooms as well but it's not as "fun" and more serious of a genre pic. Competitions like this one, the judges tend to be looking for what's "sellable" more than anything so I'm conflicted on using it.
 
Oct 27, 2017
17,443
High Righters

Just linking to the 2018 Launchpad Competition that just opened up.

If you plan to jump in now, and think you'll be the first 200 or whatever, use the code EARLYBIRD18 for $10 off entry fee.

I'm on the fence myself on entering. I have a script that is set up with a director attached, but I'm not repped and I think it'd be my best shot because it seems to be the one that gets me (or got me) in the most rooms and people like a lot.

I also have another script that used to be set up that people tend to like, but I rewrote it recently and waiting to get feedback from some fellow writers and filmmakers before going forward as there's some significant changes I've done. It got me in rooms as well but it's not as "fun" and more serious of a genre pic. Competitions like this one, the judges tend to be looking for what's "sellable" more than anything so I'm conflicted on using it.
Holy shit, thank you. I've been waiting for this contest to open but it seemed like it wasn't going to happen this year.
 
Oct 27, 2017
17,443
I've been going through some stuff lately and I totally forgot I ordered a Blacklist evaluation, which just arrived. I'm too afraid to read it since I can't handle getting my ass kicked again. :O
Welp, I finally looked. A 7! Pretty strong review across the board other than the third act and some logic nitpicks. This previously got a 6, and then got top 10% in Nichol, so I feel like this is getting very close to being decent. I'm actually really excited to revise it some more!
 

Ziltoidia 9

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,143
Welp, I finally looked. A 7! Pretty strong review across the board other than the third act and some logic nitpicks. This previously got a 6, and then got top 10% in Nichol, so I feel like this is getting very close to being decent. I'm actually really excited to revise it some more!

Congrats. Mine mentioned the last half of the second act (didn't exactly say those words, but I know what they ment) was too slow, which basically prompted my rewrites.

I basically changed the whole ending because of it, went ahead and went through with it. I was able to keep the metaphysical/existential parts I feel, while implementing the new arc leading up to the end. Torn on when I should get my next eval. Kind of just letting it sit.

I'm happy with either ending, but I felt changing the end of act 2 made it to where I had to change the 3rd. I don't THINK it will seem too "happy" or contrived, the outcome is supported with the mythos of the world, but you never know how things will be received.

Anyway...just thinking out loud.
 

Osahi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,937
Congrats on the great notes guys. It's always a great feeling if people see something in your work.

I've used the summer quietness to put some ideas on paper I've been toying with in my head for some time. As I needed some time digesting a meeting with the script doctor on my adventure film before starting a new draft, and as my animation project is on hold until the rights on the original book are sorted out again (they expired), I had some time on my hands. I just applied one of those ideas to the film fund for screenwriting support. It's a stretch, as the idea is still in early stages and I applied with a first draft treatment. I also didn't have the time to go pitch it to producers yet, so I don't have backing from them either, which might lower my chances quite a bit. On the other hand, I think the story and the idea is good, and I apply in the animation category, which never attracts many applications (which works in your favour. If the jury is in doubt about a project, they are inclined a bit more to give it a go anyway in the early stages, as there aren't many projects trying to get a piece of the cake). I'm not very hopeful though, but we'll see :)
 

OrangeAtlas

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,110
What are good resources for reading completed screenplays?

I know how to write a screenplay but I don't know how to...write.... a screenplay.
 

Ziltoidia 9

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,143
Got my reader comments from the Nicholl entry. About the same as what I got when I submitted for coverage in may, in terms of questions.

Feedback was pretty good, much more than I expected. I've addressed much of the issues already in the following drafts. Will go line by line on the comments and review whether I addressed them enough though.
 
Oct 27, 2017
17,443
I've been having a rough time writing lately due to my book agent leaving the business, resulting in me searching for a new one (and getting lots of rejections so far) so I decided to just write something purely for fun. No expections, no contests or Blacklists or anything like that, just have fun writing it. The result has been an incredibly dumb comedy that I'm having a total blast writing. I'm doing 15+ pages a day, loving every minute, and kind of weirdly wishing there was some way to salvage this into a "real" script. (But I don't think there is.) Maybe I'll post it on Reddit or something, I dunno. But anyway, it's great to enjoy writing again.
 

Ziltoidia 9

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,143
They didn't really offer much on the weeknesses, mostly just picked a few plot points and said they disagree/felt it was off.

Not going to try and be a snooty writer and scoff at it, I'll take score and wear it, try to improve it based on comments.

Their strengths section highlights everything I was going for with the piece so at least there is that.
 

Mike Works

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,775
If your script gets four 4's, then you might want to take those evaluations to heart.

If your script gets a 7, 7, 6, and 4, then I'd suggest scouring the 4's notes for any decent feedback and put the number out of your mind. It's definitely an outlier.
 

Ziltoidia 9

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,143
If your script gets four 4's, then you might want to take those evaluations to heart.

If your script gets a 7, 7, 6, and 4, then I'd suggest scouring the 4's notes for any decent feedback and put the number out of your mind. It's definitely an outlier.

Wouldn't be as frustrating if it didn't bring the average below all the score cut off lines. And the fact that it was the 4th eval and not the first.

Also the Weaknesses section is mostly just random comments on specific scenes.
 
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Deleted member 3542

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,889
Feedback was pretty good, much more than I expected. I've addressed much of the issues already in the following drafts. Will go line by line on the comments and review whether I addressed them enough though.

Nichol has vetted people, so I'd take their comments much more to heart than any other service. Not to be down on Launchpad or Blacklist, but even then those aren't as elite. I know interns that read for those two and I don't know if I'd trust every single evaluation there is, see below.

No expections, no contests or Blacklists or anything like that, just have fun writing it. The result has been an incredibly dumb comedy that I'm having a total blast writing. I'm doing 15+ pages a day, loving every minute, and kind of weirdly wishing there was some way to salvage this into a "real" script.

My best writing comes from just letting it flow with no pressure. I think most writers do that. Then I realize I'm procrastinating. That's when I tell people about it, or say "I'll have it done in two weeks if you can read it" to give myself a deadilne to finally finish it. When I don't do that...well that's why I have a half-dozen unfinished scripts and half-scenes laying dormant in a folder.

Maybe I'll post it on Reddit or something, I dunno. But anyway, it's great to enjoy writing again.

Don't do that. Never put your work out there for all to see. Open a conversation with people online first, get a sense of them, then maybe privately email it. Even then I'd be cautious.

They didn't really offer much on the weeknesses, mostly just picked a few plot points and said they disagree/felt it was off.

Sounds like a half-assed way for that reader/evaluater to just make a little money. They put forth no effort and if you feel that way contact the administrators.

If your script gets a 7, 7, 6, and 4, then I'd suggest scouring the 4's notes for any decent feedback and put the number out of your mind. It's definitely an outlier.

Read what they say, but always make sure you consider they just don't like the genre/material you're working with or just may not have the experience to really know what it might take. I love horror scripts, love reading them, I give extensive feedback on that to writers. My boss, though, doesn't know a damn thing about them and can't really judge a good horror script at all. And he's been in the business for 50 years. So keep in mind an outlier might just be someone who isn't keen on a certain genre. If they at least note structure problems or character problems, that's stuff to keep in mind.
 

Ziltoidia 9

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,143
Sounds like a half-assed way for that reader/evaluater to just make a little money. They put forth no effort and if you feel that way contact the administrators.

Read what they say, but always make sure you consider they just don't like the genre/material you're working with or just may not have the experience to really know what it might take. I love horror scripts, love reading them, I give extensive feedback on that to writers. My boss, though, doesn't know a damn thing about them and can't really judge a good horror script at all. And he's been in the business for 50 years. So keep in mind an outlier might just be someone who isn't keen on a certain genre. If they at least note structure problems or character problems, that's stuff to keep in mind.

I might contact them, but in general I'm really respectful towards it just being an opinion. I also don't think the person liked my writing style (action lines).

They gave a 6 on character and setting, but 4s on everything else. They said "dialogue can be polished", which in my opinion means that it is better than a 4 at the moment, yet that is what it is given.

To me "polishing" means there's just a few parts that didn't flow the way THEY wanted it to be, or how THEIR opinion dialogue should work.

Other things mentioned were:

-"Some of the writing is novelistic and doesn't translate to the viewer." Then they mentioned two instances, one being a character introduction, the other being a quick side note on a real life artifact, and I felt it was needed to let production people to know what I was mentioning (which was the Lion Man Statue). Not everyone is going to know what that is, so I added a small blurb that it is a real 40,000 year old famous artifact.

In my opinion, the script has to almost flow novelistic because its set in the distant future and uses horror monsters that the viewer knows, but the characters don't. Even with that said, all my action lines are descriptive of what is being seen on screen and not just prose for the hell of it.

Then they mentioned some typos, which is on me. I did do two read troughs before submitting again, but being dyslexic it's hard for me to notice them. At least they wrote out page numbers and the lines, which helped, but honestly I'd rather have more specific reasonings for why it was given a low score.

The only real feedback on structure is them saying the first act was too "fleeting" and that after the first act, the direction becomes week. So in my opinion after page 27 they kind of just lost interest.

Overall, I cynic in me feels they intentionally scored it at a 4 to knock my average down right below the cut off.
 

Deleted member 3542

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Oct 25, 2017
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I might contact them, but in general I'm really respectful towards it just being an opinion. I also don't think the person liked my writing style (action lines).

It's fine to respect an opinion, but that opinion needs to be backed up and if they don't do that then I wouldn't take their opinion to heart. Note some things, sure, but I can tell you firsthand readers on stuff can half-ass it quite a lot because they want their $50 bucks. Especially if you have other, more constructive evaluations to go by comparison to one that feels like an email sent at 1am.

Some of the writing is novelistic and doesn't translate to the viewer.

This can be a fault for a script, and some readers are going to be more critical of it than others. I'm one who really dislikes explaining things that aren't relayed to the audience, and I will knock a script for it. It can really hurt the flow of a story if you stop to be overly descriptive.

hen they mentioned some typos, which is on me. I

Sure, it's on you but typos shouldn't bring a score down unless they are constant. If a reader does that with only a few cited they're being petty. It becomes that "bitch eating crackers" phase of already not liking a script and now just trying to find something to justify the confirmation bias.

So in my opinion after page 27 they kind of just lost interest.

A rule of thumb in the industry is "Read the first 30/40, get a sense of it, then read the last 30/40." It's a way for someone to read just enough to tell if the story is compelling and writing solid. Sure, great for an exec or manager, but not for an evaluator because it's also a way for someone to rush through a script and not really put attention towards it and offer notes.

Overall, I cynic in me feels they intentionally scored it at a 4 to knock my average down right below the cut off.

No reader would do it intentionally towards you to give you a low score, but they might have not really given the script the attention they're supposed to give it.
 

Ziltoidia 9

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,143
It's fine to respect an opinion, but that opinion needs to be backed up and if they don't do that then I wouldn't take their opinion to heart. Note some things, sure, but I can tell you firsthand readers on stuff can half-ass it quite a lot because they want their $50 bucks. Especially if you have other, more constructive evaluations to go by comparison to one that feels like an email sent at 1am.

This can be a fault for a script, and some readers are going to be more critical of it than others. I'm one who really dislikes explaining things that aren't relayed to the audience, and I will knock a script for it. It can really hurt the flow of a story if you stop to be overly descriptive.

Sure, it's on you but typos shouldn't bring a score down unless they are constant. If a reader does that with only a few cited they're being petty. It becomes that "bitch eating crackers" phase of already not liking a script and now just trying to find something to justify the confirmation bias.

A rule of thumb in the industry is "Read the first 30/40, get a sense of it, then read the last 30/40." It's a way for someone to read just enough to tell if the story is compelling and writing solid. Sure, great for an exec or manager, but not for an evaluator because it's also a way for someone to rush through a script and not really put attention towards it and offer notes.

No reader would do it intentionally towards you to give you a low score, but they might have not really given the script the attention they're supposed to give it.

I appreciate you giving me some insight into the process. I still maintain that everything I write in action lines are all there to give insight into what is to be seen, felt in tone, etc. Since it is in the distant future, I felt I had to be very descriptive, and when it comes to setting the stage for a new location, I establish everything so that in all the scenes that take place at the location can run smoother during the execution. Overall, my style isn't novelistic prose with flowerly language. I'm brief and highlight what is to be seen.

But what do I really know, I don't have any credits, so whatever I guess. I'll keep pushing.
 
Oct 27, 2017
17,443
Made the second round of Austin. :)

Kind of tempted to attend the festival but I don't know how feasible that is or if it's even worth it.
 

Gin & Phonics

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
1,130
If you've never been and are interested in screenwriting (which you obviously are if you're in this thread), it's a solid experience to go at least once, regardless if you placed or not.
 
Oct 27, 2017
17,443

Ziltoidia 9

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,143
Did a lot of editing over the weekend and addressed all the issues presented, within reason at least. Still feel it was judged weirdly, but what ever, maybe I needed a kick in the ass. Over all it's better anyway.
 

Osahi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,937
Anyone upgraded to Final Draft 11 yet?

Realy tempted to upgrade. My adventure screenplay's McGuffin uses a lot of existing paintings, maps, etc. It would really help to have a version with pictures in it, just to give readers a better understanding.

An Upgrade is 15% of or something. But I should be able to get an extra 30% off trough the flemish writing guild.
 
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Oct 27, 2017
17,443
I had someone from a new-ish production company reach out to me and ask to read my script. In researching the person it seems legit, but I guess I'm a little worried about sending it. Should I go for it?
 

Ziltoidia 9

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,143
Going on 2 weeks now with an eval status for Blacklist being listed as "AWAITING ASSIGNMENT"....


Just looked at if it goes past 3 weeks you get a free month of hosting.

So what ever. Unless they rush it, doubt it will be done by next Wednesday.

And if they rush it, it better now be half assed again.
 
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Deleted member 3896

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Oct 25, 2017
5,815
Hey Screenwriter-GAF, wondering if anyone can weigh in here...

So, it turns out that that husband of an old friend of my partner's is a development guy at a production company. We were all out for drinks and it came up and he asked me about my projects and to send him some. He ended up loving one TV project and had my writing partner and me in for a meeting with most of the office. They're wanting to move ahead with shopping the project in January and they feel the pilot & bible are mostly there but had some thoughts on tweaks and wanted to start a back and forth on that. They've set up a couple of bigger shows and have a good track record so it all feels very legitimate.

My question is, without a shopping agreement (yet) or an option deal (yet) is it weird/ legally thorny to start receiving their input on the project in writing? Seems so to me but I want to make sure I'm not being overly cautious.

We're not repped right now either, if that helps clarify the situation. Thanks in advance!
 

Deleted member 3542

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Oct 25, 2017
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So, it turns out that that husband of an old friend of my partner's is a development guy at a production company. We were all out for drinks and it came up and he asked me about my projects and to send him some. He ended up loving one TV project and had my writing partner and me in for a meeting with most of the office. They're wanting to move ahead with shopping the project in January and they feel the pilot & bible are mostly there but had some thoughts on tweaks and wanted to start a back and forth on that. They've set up a couple of bigger shows and have a good track record so it all feels very legitimate.

Just have to point out that just because they set something up doesn't mean they have financing or some deal in place that guarantees it. If they're a small company they probably have no development money to pay writers for projects, so they take on the project in hopes of getting it out there and set up, maybe partner with a company that is bigger before going to a studio or network. Unless the company is a Bad Robot or Skydance or Imagine, there's not going to be a pot of cast to option something or pay outright for work done. It's all spec, even for them.

My question is, without a shopping agreement (yet) or an option deal (yet) is it weird/ legally thorny to start receiving their input on the project in writing? Seems so to me but I want to make sure I'm not being overly cautious.

They are probably going to look to set it up, option isn't going to happen unless you ask for it but in most cases like a spec script, especially for new writers, you're not going to get anything upfront. It's going to come in the back end once a deal is in place. If they're going to represent the material as producers you can ask for that in writing, but honestly most don't because it kind of locks you into them. It's still your material and if you feel that, in a few months, they haven't done shit with it then you can pull it and go somewhere else. It's common and not a bad thing, writers do it all the time. Some places are good homes for the right material and some aren't.

We're not repped right now either, if that helps clarify the situation. Thanks in advance!

If they take your script and it gets set up somewhere you'll need a rep to negotiate the deal. An entertainment lawyer can do that for you also if you don't have an agent or manager, ask your circle of friends and they can direct you to one or the other. Don't expect a big agency like WME (or even APA) to jump on board and be weary of boutique managers with no credentials. An entertainment lawyer is a little safer because their job is clearer and they have to pass the Bar so that vets them a little, which is why I always tell writers that don't have reps to get a lawyer to at least handle paperwork and look over things.