SEGA/Sonic Team Announces #SONIC2020 Campaign, With New Logo And Promotional Art

Vidiot

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,663
I mean isn't part of the problem that Sonic's budget has been cut to shit? As long as that holds true I wouldn't expect much.
 

ILikeFeet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
28,508
Don't the sonic games sell the most on nintendo platforms right now(pls correct me if i'm wrong,but i remember hearing that forces and mania did better on switch)? I really doubt sega would release a sonic game in 2020 and have it not be on a nintendo console, especially when the series doesn't sell amazingly well like before.
They do, yes. Colors sold as well as Generations, if I remember correctly
 

IronicSonic

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,796
I do know that today's Sonic Team, as in those who worked on Forces, is very different from those who worked on Generations. Considering this, what is a route where a team of competent people can make, or remake a great Sonic game?
Probably not even Forces Team are developing next Sonic game though. I learned here on Era that Sonic Team is just an ad-hoc team that is created within CS2.
 

Solid SOAP

Member
Nov 27, 2017
1,276
Probably not even Forces Team are developing next Sonic game though. I learned here on Era that Sonic Team is just an ad-hoc team that is created within CS2.
Hm, I didn't know that. Would explain the vast differences in style and quality of each Sonic game from '06 to now. Even games that were seemingly meant to evoke others in the series (Colors, Generations, Generations, and Forces most notably) all feel very different from one another.
 

ThatsMyTrunks

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,237
San Antonio, TX
Since people have been using some pretty inaccurate images of Sonic Forces and Generations for comparisons, I reinstalled forces and took screenshots from both at 1920x1080 with max in-game settings. Those images were shrunk to 50% and stacked with Generations on top, Forces on bottom. I've also got a bunch of lossless screenshots available in this folder. Enjoy:







 

stealthyfrog

Avenger
Jan 6, 2019
11,068
Since people have been using some pretty inaccurate images of Sonic Forces and Generations for comparisons, I reinstalled forces and took screenshots from both at 1920x1080 with max in-game settings. Those images were shrunk to 50% and stacked with Generations on top, Forces on bottom. I've also got a bunch of lossless screenshots available in this folder. Enjoy:







They never gave a good explanation for why Green Hill is "more like Sand Hill," did they?
 

Solid SOAP

Member
Nov 27, 2017
1,276
Since people have been using some pretty inaccurate images of Sonic Forces and Generations for comparisons, I reinstalled forces and took screenshots from both at 1920x1080 with max in-game settings. Those images were shrunk to 50% and stacked with Generations on top, Forces on bottom. I've also got a bunch of lossless screenshots available in this folder. Enjoy:







I don't see how anyone can say Forces looks better when comparing them side by side. It's not like it's an ugly game by any means, but it's certainly not a notable improvement from its predecessor.

The game also reused so many assets from Generations. Like... lol, really? Both Green Hill and Chemical Plant existing in Forces is so lazy.
 

N75

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,004
Senoue has been free since TSR and Ohtani was working on Tokyo 2020, so maybe Senoue will finally be sound director/lead composer for a 3D Sonic game in over a decade.

I guess it doesn't even matter if the next game is planned for a release late next year. Ohtani does a lot of work as well.

Hm, I didn't know that. Would explain the vast differences in style and quality of each Sonic game from '06 to now. Even games that were seemingly meant to evoke others in the series (Colors, Generations, Generations, and Forces most notably) all feel very different from one another.
Iizuka, Nakamura, and Kishimoto are still the de facto managers/leads of the series, so you would at least expect there to be some sort of consistency.

It's clear that with the restructuring, the budget releases, and sending Iizuka back to the US, Sega of Japan really doesn't really care about the Sonic games themselves and is giving Sega of America more control. The series hasn't sold well in Japan for years.
 
Oct 28, 2017
9,350
Sonic Forces I could see was a mistake from the first teaser trailer where it confirmed 2 Sonics again. The minute I saw it was going to be Generations style again I lost interest. The fact the game was as bad as it was just made it even worse. I was already disappointed just from it not moving on. Lost World is hardly a great game. It has a lot of problems. But at least it tried something and had some interesting ideas. I'd have been interested in a sequel.
 

Solid SOAP

Member
Nov 27, 2017
1,276
Iizuka, Nakamura, and Kishimoto are still the de facto managers/leads of the series, so you would at least expect there to be some sort of consistency.

It's clear that with the restructuring, the budget releases, and sending Iizuka back to the US, Sega of Japan really doesn't really care about the Sonic games themselves and is giving Sega of America more control. The series hasn't sold well in Japan for years.
Do the games even sell well in America anymore? I don't think we were given sales figures for Forces or TSR, and even Mania's celebratory sales figure press releases were for selling like... what, about a million copies?

Clearly Sonic Team realize something is wrong, considering we don't get annual releases anymore, but they really need to make a big change if the series is gonna sell the way it used to. They released too many shitty and/or inconsistent games between Sonic Heroes and Forces, the series does not have a sense of identity that people other than inconsistent quality.
 

stealthyfrog

Avenger
Jan 6, 2019
11,068
Do the games even sell well in America anymore? I don't think we were given sales figures for Forces or TSR, and even Mania's celebratory sales figure press releases were for selling like... what, about a million copies?

Clearly Sonic Team realize something is wrong, considering we don't get annual releases anymore, but they really need to make a big change if the series is gonna sell the way it used to. They released too many shitty and/or inconsistent games between Sonic Heroes and Forces, the series does not have a sense of identity that people other than inconsistent quality.
Forces almost definitely sold under a million, which should be a wake-up call for Sonic Team. They probably went back to Sonic Adventure in response.
 
Last edited:

Dario

Member
Oct 27, 2017
23
I didn't enjoy Sonic Forces but that comparison isn't fair. Green hill in generations was over satured of useless palm trees. (almost cloned ?)

If you look closely elements like buildings are much more complex in Force. Not to mention fire, smoke, reflections, war zone with gigantic robots moving all
around the place.


(Look at the flat houses on 360... On PS4 there are balconies, detailed structures compared to the army of low polygones buildings on the previous generation of consoles.

That's not a beautiful game but not a regression except for the empty green hill which is more an answer to the over saturated version of Generations.
Pfft.

Forces might have a higher poly count in spots, but it sure as hell is a regression when it comes to the density of the detail in the stages and their length. It lacks so much of the technology that allowed Unleashed/Generations to actually stream in high quality terrain and lighting. PBR and realtime GI doesn't really make up for that downgrade at all.



 
Last edited:
Oct 28, 2017
9,350
Forces probably sold under a million, which should be a wake-up call for Sonic Team. They probably went back to Sonic Adventure in response.
Back to Sonic Adventure is an ok response, but really it needs more than that. The franchise needs a Sonic Rush type reinvention. Something to really turn the series on its head but still retain the identity of Sonic and be high quality.
 

Solid SOAP

Member
Nov 27, 2017
1,276
Forces probably sold under a million, which should be a wake-up call for Sonic Team. They probably went back to Sonic Adventure in response.
I can't see Forces eclipsing a million units, I haven't heard anyone talk about this game other than Sonic die hard fans. I wouldn't have even played it if not for the fact that my friend bought it for me as a gag birthday gift, haha.

I still am not fully convinced a remake of Adventure 1 is coming out. Iizuka made a comment pertaining to his desire to make such a game, but I'm pretty sure that's all we got. Correct me if I'm wrong though, please.

The idea of an Adventure remake is a weird one, too. On one hand, of all the Sonic games that would most benefit from a remake, I'd say that Sonic Adventure 1 is probably the best possible choice among them for the following reasons:

* It could follow suit the current trend of early 3D game remakes ala Crash and Spyro

* The game presented many ideas, both good and bad, that could use polish and improvement

* A remake could help re-contextualize the series in the modern age

* The game follows more closely modern game design conventions than many modern Sonic games have (e.g. hub worlds, extra features that influence phone/app usage ala the Chao, etc.)
 

N75

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,004
Forces almost definitely sold under a million, which should be a wake-up call for Sonic Team. They probably went back to Sonic Adventure in response.
There's no evidence of Lost World passing a million sales either. That's even after combining the Wii U and 3DS versions, which is what Sega did in their earnings report even though they're different games. The number was around 700K by the end of that FY and I doubt either version had good legs.
 
Last edited:

Lua

Member
Aug 9, 2018
1,124
I think lost world (maybe we don't know for sure) not passing a million is understandable because wii u and all, but if it's true for forces then yeah, that's pretty bad. I said before that this series sales numbers are on kirby level these years(which is not an insult to kirby,is one of my fav series) but that would be actually below that. They need to get their shit together fast.
 

stealthyfrog

Avenger
Jan 6, 2019
11,068
Wait is an Adventure remake an actual rumor floating around?
Speculation. It just makes sense, though. Sonic Team can either continue to face diminishing returns on the boost formula, take a risk with a brand new gameplay style, or go back to the Adventure style that fans have been requesting.
 

Solid SOAP

Member
Nov 27, 2017
1,276
Wait is an Adventure remake an actual rumor floating around?
Iizuka stated a few months, maybe a year back that he's interested in remaking the game and ironing out its rough edges. There's not much else to substantiate the rumor than this.

Sonic Mania 2 will happen Sega knows the money is there. It's just a question of who develops it.
Did Mania eclipse far beyond a million units? It clearly performed better than Forces but I reckon they want sales higher than a million copies when it comes to their premier franchise.
 
Last edited:

Kazooie

Member
Jul 17, 2019
600
Also, just wanna put it out there that I'm really pulling for this SA1 remake. Clearly Sonic Team are running out of ideas (and budget, for that matter); a remake of their first 3D game could actually do them some good. Give a new approach to controlling Sonic and co. in 3D, polish the level design up and give us some nice visuals to compliment the package. SA1, while a bit sloppy when looked at today, actually brought a pretty fun world and story in the series, and would be great to experience with modern sensibilities.
Why do people ask for a remake of a game that featured total garbage gameplay such as Amy, Big and Chao? Sonic Team should use their resourced to make a new game.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,176
There is, there's this weird myth of people saying that it was DX version that created these problems. Probably people trying to defend Sonic Adventure.

They were there even while playing on DC.
No one is saying the DC version was glitch/jank free. But it simply wasn’t that frequent. In a 6-campaign play session, I might encounter 2, maybe 3 instances of “jank”, which is honestly nothing. People make SA1 DC to be Big Rigs Over the Road Racing: the platformer.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,176
Why do people ask for a remake of a game that featured total garbage gameplay such as Amy, Big and Chao? Sonic Team should use their resourced to make a new game.
Wow. People LOOOOOOOOOOVE the Chao Garden. Except Professor Beef. And you I guess. But the “Chao gameplay” is one of the most fan requested reasons for a return to Adventure. It also made for a great incentive to revisit stages.

While Amy and Big weren’t big hits with fans initially, a remake is an opportunity to make improvements for their gameplay (although I personally have always liked Amy’s momentum based height traversal).
 

CharGP02A

Member
Nov 23, 2017
1,688
I would love a good Sonic Adventure remake. If they develop one and can't surpass the original in quality then don't make it.
 

Kazooie

Member
Jul 17, 2019
600
Wow. People LOOOOOOOOOOVE the Chao Garden. Except Professor Beef. And you I guess. But the “Chao gameplay” is one of the most fan requested reasons for a return to Adventure. It also made for a great incentive to revisit stages.

While Amy and Big weren’t big hits with fans initially, a remake is an opportunity to make improvements for their gameplay (although I personally have always liked Amy’s momentum based height traversal).
Big and Chao are unsalvagable. They are bottom tier bullshit. I am saddened to see that Professor Beef has failed to bring reason to the Sonic community here!
 
Oct 28, 2017
9,350
I will offer my opinion on Chao. I don't get it. I never got it.

But I support their return because it's clearly popular and I support Sega incorporating that shit in the current mobile market and sqeezing the life out of you people with microtransactions. It's what Chao Garden fans deserve.
 

shadowman16

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,870
I never liked the Chao stuff, I never liked Chao's either. If I could shoot Omochao into the sun I would. That said, aside from a couple of emblems it was never actually something the game forced you to do, so I was never bothered about it so if it returns, fine.
 

Syril

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,315
Why do people ask for a remake of a game that featured total garbage gameplay such as Amy, Big and Chao? Sonic Team should use their resourced to make a new game.
I like Amy's gameplay, she just needed better levels and also more than three of them.
I never liked the Chao stuff, I never liked Chao's either. If I could shoot Omochao into the sun I would. That said, aside from a couple of emblems it was never actually something the game forced you to do, so I was never bothered about it so if it returns, fine.
I accidentally activated Omochao twice and then modded him out of the game.
 

Poltergust

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,007
Orlando, FL
I like Amy's gameplay, she just needed better levels and also more than three of them.

I accidentally activated Omochao twice and then modded him out of the game.
I'm honestly fine with Amy being slower than Sonic (her being as fast as him would make the whole getting chased by Zero thing kinda pointless), but she definitely needs better acceleration to make better use of her actually-fun-to-use Hammer Jump.
 

Syril

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,315
I'm honestly fine with Amy being slower than Sonic (her being as fast as him would make the whole getting chased by Zero thing kinda pointless), but she definitely needs better acceleration to make better use of her actually-fun-to-use Hammer Jump.
Her moves from Advance would work well. They were pretty much expanded on versions of her Adventure moves anyway.
 

Lant_War

The Fallen
Jul 14, 2018
12,148
Alright, saying that Generations was ugly was whatever. But shitting on the Chao garden? Y'all strayed too far away from the light.
 

Poltergust

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,007
Orlando, FL
I'm just going to cross-post my list of suggestions for an eventual SA1 remake from the other thread.

A few things come to mind:
  • Make an improved version of the Adventure style of gameplay. This definitely should not be a boost game. SA1 gave you lots of control over Sonic in a 3D space and that absolutely should be brought back and refined.
  • Keep all the level themes but redo the levels entirely (keep the setpieces intact, though). When it comes to multiple playable characters, either give them their own unique levels through these areas or vastly improve the routes they take so that they don't blow over in like 30 seconds.
  • Make both a remixed soundtrack and keep the original soundtrack. Make it toggleable in the options.
  • Remove Big's story. It's pointless and boring. At best, make it so that he's a funny background character who still goes through his adventure off-screen just so you can give context to Froggy and his Chaos Emerald. Maybe make playing as him an optional mini-game or something.
  • Everyone else's story should stay and the overall narrative and multiple perspectives should remain about the same (one of the strongest aspects of SA1, tbh).
  • Chao Garden should return, but maybe make it less grindy. They are important to the main plot so their presence should still be preserved in some form.
  • Hub worlds should return to give a greater sense of place and adventure, just make them fun to navigate. We absolutely do not want another Soleanna. Unleashed did this pretty well, honestly.
That's all I can think of for now. There is a lot to improve upon but there is definitely an amazing game hiding under all the jank.
These are somewhat ordered by importance.