SEGA/Sonic Team Announces #SONIC2020 Campaign, With New Logo And Promotional Art

Solid SOAP

Member
Nov 27, 2017
1,246
Why do people ask for a remake of a game that featured total garbage gameplay such as Amy, Big and Chao? Sonic Team should use their resourced to make a new game.
Their new games haven't exactly been great. I think that thinking back to their original 3D title may spark some inspiration in them to make something worthwhile... maybe.
 

Kazooie

Member
Jul 17, 2019
592
prophets are often met with resistance
Do I need to wait until after your death before people see the light?
I never liked the Chao stuff, I never liked Chao's either. If I could shoot Omochao into the sun I would. That said, aside from a couple of emblems it was never actually something the game forced you to do, so I was never bothered about it so if it returns, fine.
You could not access Green Hill in Sonic Adventure 2, nor Metal Sonic in Sonic Adventure DX unless you played that abomination of a busywork game.
 

Kazooie

Member
Jul 17, 2019
592
Their new games haven't exactly been great. I think that thinking back to their original 3D title may spark some inspiration in them to make something worthwhile... maybe.
Sonic Unleashed (PS360), Sonic Colours, Sonic Generations and Sonic Forces were all better and more consistent than Sonic Adventure 1. I say that as someone who has played the game for well over 100 hours and completed it on DC, GCN and 360. Either way, the worst thing of all is this obsession with old games getting rereleased. If Sonic Team wants to revisit Sonic Adventure, they should make Sonic Adventure 3, not remake an old game. It has been three years since Sonic Forces, if Sonic Team has done nothing better than remaking a game that is greatly flawed and readyil available for a huge number of systems (DC, GCN, PS2, 360, One, PC), I will be furious.
 

Poltergust

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,982
Orlando, FL
omochao is literally the only good chao

the one exception out of a miserable pile of awful
Omochao has only ever been good in one game and it isn't even a Sonic game.

Sonic Unleashed (PS360), Sonic Colours, Sonic Generations and Sonic Forces were all better and more consistent than Sonic Adventure 1.
I would say that Unleashed is roughly on par with SA1, but Forces is absolutely worse.
 
Apr 21, 2018
733
Pfft.

Forces might have a higher poly count in spots, but it sure as hell is a regression when it comes to the density of the detail in the stages and their length. It lacks so much of the technology that allowed Unleashed/Generations to actually stream in high quality terrain and lighting. PBR and realtime GI doesn't really make up for that downgrade at all.



Let's be clear, it is not my intention to downplay Generations to defend Forces which I disliked.(level design, art)
I just thought the green hill comparison was irrelevant since the Sonic Team removed details for what i suspect being a clarity choice.

Forces has not only a better geometry, SFX, it's also 60 FPS on PS4 while Generations was 30 FPS on PS3. Something that cannot be ignored in a fair comparison.

Overall, Forces is such a disapointment that I don't trust current Sonic Team for a new Sonic Games. (a Sonic Adventure remake collection is another story though)
 
Oct 28, 2017
9,317
Forces is the worst main series Sonic game ever. And by some distance. Yes that includes 06. But then I'm pretty much the biggest 06 apologist on this board...
 

Kazooie

Member
Jul 17, 2019
592
Worse ? I enjoyed Generations a lot ;). Cannot say the same for Forces :(
Generations is certainly much better, but Forces played well and its level design did have some depth to it, if you tried to beat the times the game gave you. It's not using the potential of the boost gameplay as well as it could, but there are several worse 3D Sonics (Black Knight, 06, Boom, Unleashed Wii / PS2, Lost World 3DS, Adventure, maybe even Lost World Wii U).
 

Vidiot

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,649
I agree, Forces was much worse than 06. At least 06 had some ambition. Forces was bare minimum effort with terrible straight forward 1-2 minute long levels. It had none of the wow factor of Unleashed or Generations.
 
Oct 28, 2017
9,317
Generations is certainly much better, but Forces played well and its level design did have some depth to it, if you tried to beat the times the game gave you. It's not using the potential of the boost gameplay as well as it could, but there are several worse 3D Sonics (Black Knight, 06, Boom, Unleashed Wii / PS2, Lost World 3DS, Adventure, maybe even Lost World Wii U).
Haven't played Boom or Black Knight, but literally every other one you named shits on Forces from a great height. Forces has literally NOTHING going for it. Even the music sucks. Other Sonic games might have problems and warts, but there's usually something of value in there as well. Forces has nothing of value.
 

Kazooie

Member
Jul 17, 2019
592
Haven't played Boom or Black Knight, but literally every other one you named shits on Forces from a great height. Forces has literally NOTHING going for it. Even the music sucks. Other Sonic games might have problems and warts, but there's usually something of value in there as well. Forces has nothing of value.
I will give you that the music sucks, but Sonic Forces is at least pretty consistently fun, if shallow for a Sonic game. The better ones of the games in my list above (Adventure, Lost World), are highly inconsistent, the worse ones (Boom, Black Knight, 06) are just shit from start to end. With good music though.
 

Professor Beef

Official ResetEra™ Chao Puncher
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,365
The Digital World
I agree, Forces was much worse than 06. At least 06 had some ambition. Forces was bare minimum effort with terrible straight forward 1-2 minute long levels. It had none of the wow factor of Unleashed or Generations.
ambition doesn't mean squat, 06 is a turd and one of the worst games ever made (FAR worse than forces) and i will never understand the defense it gets on the internet
 
Oct 28, 2017
9,317
I will give you that the music sucks, but Sonic Forces is at least pretty consistently fun, if shallow for a Sonic game. The better ones of the games in my list above (Adventure, Lost World), are highly inconsistent, the worse ones (Boom, Black Knight, 06) are just shit from start to end. With good music though.
It is not consistently fun. It's consistently boring. The absolute worst thing a game can be.
 

Rotobit

Editor at Nintendo Wire
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
5,332
the thing with the Chao Garden that it was evolving between games but the third and final evolution never came. I thought SA2's Chao Garden was cute and had depth but I was never the sort of person who'd spend hours with it, it was so limited and kinda pointless.

In an ideal world they'd have kept iterating on it but they... Didn't. And I don't have the confidence they'd evolve it enough with a new game to satisfy people, either.

Anyway I want them to try a Sonic RPG again but with the comic writers and artists involved, because why not at this point.
 
Oct 28, 2017
9,317
ambition doesn't mean squat, 06 is a turd and one of the worst games ever made (FAR worse than forces) and i will never understand the defense it gets on the internet
06 doesn't get as much defense as it should. It has far more going for it than people give it credit for, and is nowhere near as bad as people make it out to be. Not even the worst Sonic game, let alone one of the worst games ever. I will stan for it. Oh and I generally loved the story in 06. That was some entertaining shit. The entirety of Shadow's story was FIRE.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,146
ambition doesn't mean squat, 06 is a turd and one of the worst games ever made (FAR worse than forces) and i will never understand the defense it gets on the internet
06 is a worse game

Forces is a far, far more boring game though

Being boring is worse than being bad. If you fail, fail because you actually tried. Forces didn't try anything other than being the blandest 3D entry in franchise history.
 

Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,921
ambition doesn't mean squat, 06 is a turd and one of the worst games ever made (FAR worse than forces) and i will never understand the defense it gets on the internet
People will always like shit they think is cool but maybe doesn't turn out great

People will never like shit they think is wack. "Ambition" kinda matters. But its not " ambition " its tone. Its called tone and yes, the tone of your work is important. I don't know why people call it ambition because tone is easier to understand and communicate and gets the point across better.
 

Nocturnowl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,734
The franchise really needs to deliver this year and save me from these baffling Sonic 06 takes.
The fans have finally lost it.
 

RedDevil

Member
Dec 25, 2017
1,718
Strange, a Sonic thread where that Utopia video wasn't posted yet.

06 is a worse game

Forces is a far, far more boring game though

Being boring is worse than being bad. If you fail, fail because you actually tried. Forces didn't try anything other than being the blandest 3D entry in franchise history.
I guess I'll have to agree. Forces was so average on everything that in the end it was forgettable, at least 06 brought in some fun by being as broken and awful as it was.
 

BlazeHedgehog

Member
Oct 27, 2017
443
But that's irrelevant when talking graphics.

It doesn't look any better on 360 either so if you're talking PC I still disagree but yes the difference isn't as big i guess but i never played Forces on PC so i don't know.

Doesn't change the fact, Generations doesn't look good anymore.
When you compare Sonic Generations to Sonic Forces at the same resolution, you're wrong, unfortunately. Your whole argument is "it looks bad because I played it on an old platform." But just... like, c'mon.




At 60fps, 4K resolution (which you get on the PC rather easily), this would still pass for a modern game.

Sonic Forces environments are empty, flat, and washed out. A couple levels look nice, but most of them don't look finished (probably because they weren't). Take Mortar Canyon, for example:



The clouds say dark and stormy, but the level is brightly lit. As someone who has done game development in my life, it screams "we didn't have enough time to properly set up the lighting for this level." And what are these red lines on the left? I think they're supposed to be lasers (they animate like a light show), but they aren't really giving off any light, and they're colored much too dark.

Like I've said, I think Hedgehog Engine 2 has the capacity to make a prettier game than Sonic Generations, given Sonic Forces does have some legitimate improvements to material rendering and character lighting. But it helps when the art team has more than 20 minutes to hack together a level.
 
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Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,921
The franchise really needs to deliver this year and save me from these baffling Sonic 06 takes.
The fans have finally lost it.
I don't really think folks have lost it. Its all relative.

I for the most part, don't like 06. Don't like how it plays , don't like most of the story besides the shadow parts, scene direction, I don't even think " fixing " the game would make it good. Don't even like silver that much. The music is good, will give it that.

However tone is important. A dumb thing that's dumb that takes itself seriously but is fun, will always go over well than something trying to be " ironic " and failing. The former comes off as a genuine attempt. The Latter comes off as giving up. And " kind of giving " is the exact vibe sonic as a franchise is giving people nowadays. The ironic jokes, the characterization being pared down while novel at first now come off as annoying and just excuses at this point. Or even pointless a change in tone didn't fix sega's problems , if anything it brought more eyes to them.

I don't think its people loosing it. I think 06 for a lot of people is the last game where sonic felt like he was trying to be himself. Instead of trying to appeal to a bunch of people a lot of the fanbase didn't agree with . It has in a weird way cemented itself in minds of so many for just being a honest ass weird game. And I find that genuinely funny.
 

Professor Beef

Official ResetEra™ Chao Puncher
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,365
The Digital World
Oct 28, 2017
9,317
So the Sonic movie trailer randomly came up in my youtube recommendations again so I went ahead and watched it again cos why not. Movie looks good I'm excited for it. But anyways the comments section is turned off which I find weird. Anyone know why? Because when that trailer dropped way back when the comments on it were almost exclusively positive so I don't see why they'd disable them. Doesn't really matter I just find it odd.
 
Oct 28, 2017
9,317
Utopia came out so long ago. Have there been any updates on if/when we'll be seeing something more from it?

Honestly I'd be fine with just another playground to play around in with no goal so to speak. That demo was so fun to just chill and run around in.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,146
So the Sonic movie trailer randomly came up in my youtube recommendations again so I went ahead and watched it again cos why not. Movie looks good I'm excited for it. But anyways the comments section is turned off which I find weird. Anyone know why? Because when that trailer dropped way back when the comments on it were almost exclusively positive so I don't see why they'd disable them. Doesn't really matter I just find it odd.
May have to do with kids content or potential kids content needing the comments section to be disabled. There's quite a few videos I've revisited that have mysteriously lost their comments.
 

ILikeFeet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
28,394
So the Sonic movie trailer randomly came up in my youtube recommendations again so I went ahead and watched it again cos why not. Movie looks good I'm excited for it. But anyways the comments section is turned off which I find weird. Anyone know why? Because when that trailer dropped way back when the comments on it were almost exclusively positive so I don't see why they'd disable them. Doesn't really matter I just find it odd.
Probably because of Coppa
 

Xpike

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,475
between this anniversary and last anniversary, there has been exactly 1 sonic game release, sonic team racing
between last anniversary and the one before, there was only sonic lost world
is sonic just an anniversary franchise now
where the FUCK is cream in sonic team racing
where are the rest of the chaotix
why did sonic forces feel like it was made in 6 months
 

Lua

Member
Aug 9, 2018
1,117
06 Is mostly indefensable because of its technical problems. It was not the team's fault, they were pushed on an unreasonable timeline, but a piece of software should at least work properly. Before the tone and the characters and all of that it should be a working piece of technology, and that game isn't that, and that's unnaceptable.

If your game has a bar that never decreases because the trigger for it wasn't implemented, or lines of scrapped dialogue make the way into the final product, or if the colision causes the main track of the stage to not work, or if you can abuse physics with a simple button, or the if the million of other stuff that i could say here make into the end product then it is a 0/10, it's completely worthless.

The series past doesn't deserve to be drag on the mud because of it and the internet hate for anything sonic is tiring and bad, but 06 deserves all of it's bashing, and sega deserves to listen to all of it.
 

BlazeHedgehog

Member
Oct 27, 2017
443
Utopia came out so long ago. Have there been any updates on if/when we'll be seeing something more from it?

Honestly I'd be fine with just another playground to play around in with no goal so to speak. That demo was so fun to just chill and run around in.
It sounded like they were near to releasing a new demo last year but that never came to pass and it sounds like one of their coders might have gone pro? He was most recently spotted as a coder working on River City Girls, I believe, and he has a website where he's selling a Unity character physics package, advertising it as the one used for movement in Utopia.

Beyond that, I believe they said they realized Green Hill was too wide open and were trying to focus it down.
 

MaverickHunterAsh

GameXplain
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
410
Sonic '06 is definitely a worse game than Forces, like it's not even close, but at least '06 was memorable in its badness. It crashed and burned in the most spectacularly embarrassing ways possible, landing it squarely within the "good-bad" camp along with stuff like the OG Street Fighter movie and, like, The Room.

Forces is just bad-bad. It's bland in its badness. There's nothing fun or funny (other than Knuckles' war line and various horrific avatar designs) about the myriad ways in which Forces fails... it's just there and adds next to nothing of value, memetic or otherwise, to the franchise. In Forces' defense, though, I will say that the level design quality and general fun factor ramp up a decent degree in the last third or so of the game. A couple of Modern Sonic's end-game stages were legit fun IMO.

Forces did have a solid soundtrack, though. Far from the series' best and not as good as '06's, of course, but people love to shit on Forces' music when it's actually mostly pretty great and the real problem is that said folks just don't like electronic dance-style music. If you do, like me, Forces is full of bangers (though I will say the vocal elements are of questionable quality more often than not). The Classic Sonic stage themes are pretty unforgivable though, other than Ghost Town. Talk about completely missing the mark on what people love about Genesis and Classic Sonic music.

At least Forces has Infinite, who is almost staggering in terms of how unbelievably lame and tryhard he is. To this day I still can't figure out if Forces and SEGA were in on the joke or genuinely trying to sell him as cool and/or menacing.

...Then again, '06 had Mephiles, who pretty much played the same role in that game, so I guess they come out pretty even in the "preposterously lame/tryhard villain" department. :P
 
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Dooble

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,056
Sega of Japan really loves Sonic Mania. In all their financial reports, interviews etc. they really stress the success of it.

So why don't they do anything with it??
 

BlazeHedgehog

Member
Oct 27, 2017
443
Sega of Japan really loves Sonic Mania. In all their financial reports, interviews etc. they really stress the success of it.

So why don't they do anything with it??
Like what, exactly

Evening Star studio is either working on a new, unannounced Sonic game or they're doing something different and unrelated. Let's say they aren't making a Sonic game.

Do you trust Sonic Team to make a game like Sonic Mania by themselves? Just look at how they handled Classic Sonic in Generations and Forces. Going back to those games to take my 4K screenshots earlier in the thread, I forgot just how awkward Classic Sonic feels in those games...

What if we brought Dimps back, maybe Dimps could do it, given they did so well with Sonic 4, right?
 

N75

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,001
I can fathom a lot of criticism of Forces despite coming away with a vaguely positive sense of it, but this one I cannot ever agree with.
Forces has arguably good music that's ruined by the instrumentation. Most Modern Sonic stages have the same obnoxious synth lead. The Classic Sonic stages have this fake Genesis/Megadrive sound that desperately wants to emulate the 16-bit games, but doesn't.

It's a shame because I liked Ohtani's work on previous Sonic games. It isn't even a thing exclusive to Forces. The one track he did for TSR, Sky Road, has the same problem as well.
 
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Syril

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,286
Forces has arguably good music that's ruined by the instrumentation. Most Modern Sonic stages have the same obnoxious synth lead. The Classic Sonic stages have this fake Genesis/Megadrive sound that desperately wants to emulate the 16-bit games, but doesn't.

It's a shame because I liked Ohtani's work on previous Sonic games. It isn't even a thing exclusive to Forces. The one track he did for TSR, Sky Road, has the same problem well.
Sonic 4 is the same way. Splash Hill Zone is actually pretty good in different arrangements.
 
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Zippo

Zippo

Member
Dec 8, 2017
7,042
If Evening Star isn't doing Mania, then I don't want it. I'd rather have no game at all than an incompetent studio that would fuck it up.

Straight up.
 
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Zippo

Zippo

Member
Dec 8, 2017
7,042
Oh, and 06 is a much worse game than Forces. There are times where 06 flat out doesn't fucking work. It's fundamentally broken.

I can't even comprehend how that's even up for debate.