SEGA/Sonic Team Announces #SONIC2020 Campaign, With New Logo And Promotional Art

muteKi

Member
Oct 22, 2018
12,342
a sunken pirate ship
Forces has arguably good music that's ruined by the instrumentation. Most Mode rn Sonic stages have the same obnoxious synth lead. The Classic Sonic stages have this fake Genesis/Megadrive sound that desperately wants to emulate the 16-bit games, but doesn't.
This I have to disagree on. I don't think it sounds like any of the Genesis Sonic games but especially in comparison to Sonic 4 or Generations, those are actually authentic Genesis sounds. It would certainly take me a bit to properly reverse-engineer the specific voices but I could probably replicate every single one of those tracks with the tools I use to make Genesis music. I think they used something legitimate to produce those songs, though it certainly wasn't anything related to the tools they used to make the songs for the old games like 20ish years ago. Could probably get a head start ripping voices from The Hybrid Front or something.

That said I don't think of the sound as particularly Sonic-like. If you wanted me to make a Sonic track I'd probably start by taking a couple basic sounds from the Sonic 3 "universal voice bank" and then experimenting from there. I mean this is actually what I've done to make Sonic-style music in the past and it's a pretty winning strategy -- slightly frustrating that they didn't do something similar.
 

TreIII

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,882
Columbia, MD
If Evening Star isn't doing Mania, then I don't want it. I'd rather have no game at all than an incompetent studio that would fuck it up.

Straight up.
Definitely a big mood.

For now, I choose to believe that Sega/Sonic Team aren't THAT foolish, to be shopping the duties of Mania's follow-up to another party. Why risk eroding the MUCH NEEDED goodwill over on the side of the brand that actually has it? Not to mention possesses a contingency of buyers that would likely balk if we ever got word that as much of the original crew as possible weren't back on board.
 
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Zippo

Zippo

Member
Dec 8, 2017
7,089
Definitely a big mood.

For now, I choose to believe that Sega/Sonic Team aren't THAT foolish, to be shopping the duties of Mania's follow-up to another party. Why risk eroding the MUCH NEEDED goodwill over on the side of the brand that actually has it? Not to mention possesses a contingency of buyers that would likely balk if we ever got word that as much of the original crew as possible weren't back on board.
Yeah, i agree. Thankfully, SOA is in charge of all things Sonic now and Evening Star is extremely close proximity to the SEGA HQ. I like to think they're extremely quiet now for good reason.
 

Adulfzen

Member
Oct 29, 2017
667
I really dislike how most 3D sonic game play personally so I really hope Sega has some 2D project in the works (ideally Mania 2).
I'd even take a 2.5D game as long as it controls as well as Mania (though hopefully it looks good).
 

Supaidaman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
492
I already said this on the Sonic OT but I don't know what the fuck Sonic Team is going to do with the franchise and it scares me.
 
Oct 28, 2017
9,350
It's difficult to see myself being excited for almost any game they have in store, tbh. Unless it's some radical departure, I really cant see myself being excited.
It has to and likely will be a radical departure. Really it needs to reinvent the franchise the way Sonic Rush did. But a stop gap before that would be an Adventure Remake and I'd be happy with that right now.
 

Solid SOAP

Member
Nov 27, 2017
1,276
It has to and likely will be a radical departure. Really it needs to reinvent the franchise the way Sonic Rush did. But a stop gap before that would be an Adventure Remake and I'd be happy with that right now.
Yea. The franchise definitely is in a weird position right now, something needs to change. I was actually pretty excited for Forces until they revealed the character gimmick and its corresponding gameplay, as I was expecting and wanting more Generations but with all unique levels. Clearly, the game was not that.

Hopefully whatever they have in store is somewhat exciting, fresh, or new. I kinda doubt it at this point but we'll see I guess!
 
Oct 28, 2017
9,350
You say that, but it wouldn't be crazy for the next game to be yet another boost game that somehow ends up looking and playing worse than Generations.
I would be shocked if that happens. Forces was a wake up call the way 06 was. I don't see them doing that again. We're either going back to Adventure, getting something new to shake up the series, or both. Boost is dead.
 

Solid SOAP

Member
Nov 27, 2017
1,276
It has to and likely will be a radical departure. Really it needs to reinvent the franchise the way Sonic Rush did. But a stop gap before that would be an Adventure Remake and I'd be happy with that right now.
I'm also kinda in the camp that thinks this franchise needs a rest. Some mobile games and spin-offs here and there for a few years, but would it not help them to keep Sonic dormant for a bit? DK took a bit of a rest for a while and so did Crash, then the series' became reborn and were met with high sales and acclaim. I think Sonic would also benefit in the same way.

I would be shocked if that happens. Forces was a wake up call the way 06 was. I don't see them doing that again. We're either going back to Adventure, getting something new to shake up the series, or both. Boost is dead.
GameXplain had a video recently where they implied we may get a remake and a new game before 2021. Frankly I find that unrealistic in the franchise's current state; I think it'll either be one or the other.
 

Mark1

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,592
I hope they do not remove the Boost formula. Some of the fan creations on YouTube really put it into perspective with how good it can be in the 3D space if SEGA/Sonic Team got really creative with the gameplay.


(On a side note I really like the Sonic Infinity Engine...)
 
Oct 28, 2017
9,350
I'm also kinda in the camp that thinks this franchise needs a rest. Some mobile games and spin-offs here and there for a few years, but would it not help them to keep Sonic dormant for a bit? DK took a bit of a rest for a while and so did Crash, then the series' became reborn and were met with high sales and acclaim. I think Sonic would also benefit in the same way.


GameXplain had a video recently where they implied we may get a remake and a new game before 2021. Frankly I find that unrealistic in the franchise's current state; I think it'll either be one or the other.
Sonic would need a decade off at least for that kind of effect, and even then I don't see it having the same impact as the damage to the Sonic brand has been much more severe.
 

Solid SOAP

Member
Nov 27, 2017
1,276
Sonic would need a decade off at least for that kind of effect, and even then I don't see it having the same impact as the damage to the Sonic brand has been much more severe.
Not a bad point, the brand is pretty laughable now... possibly beyond where it was immediately post-06. At least that game excited people. Honestly though, I think the biggest problem this series has faced over the years has been its inconsistency. Not even just the quality of games, but everything. Gameplay, art style, everything.

It's kinda amazing to me that it took this long for the series to truly start depreciating in sales, haha. So many disappointing/inconsistent games followed '06. Even middle of the road games like Sonic Unleashed were just... not consistent. You buy a Mario game to run and jump, you buy Doom to rip and tear, and you buy Sonic to fucking gamble and see what you get! It was no longer about fast-paced platforming, but that, plus the genre of the week. With '06 it was telekinesis, with Unleashed it was brawler gameplay; it took until Colors and Generations for them to actually sit down and decide the gameplay should be relatively consistent across the board, and the latter still segmented the gameplay between 2D and... a 2D/3D hybrid.

Then there's the vastly different tones between all games. Adventure 1 and 2 were pretty consistent, 2 perhaps escalated the drama and chaos but it still felt grounded in that world. Heroes comes around as a pseudo reboot with classic aesthetic, and then Shadow brings it back down to earth in a dark and realistic world. '06 doubles down on that, meanwhile the GBA and DS games are all happy-go-lucky, whimsical affairs. Unleashed was a decent middle ground between the two, and Colors goes full apeshit with the cartoon aesthetic. Generations tried to bring everything together and make it all somehow seem cohesive (and, honestly, I think they did a great job making everything seem like it could actually exist in the same world), and Forces... well, idk. Now I guess Sonic lives exclusively amongst other animals instead of human beings now!

I really think the biggest offender for this series has been its in consistency; in both quality, tone, and gameplay.
 
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Zippo

Zippo

Member
Dec 8, 2017
7,089
GameXplain had a video recently where they implied we may get a remake and a new game before 2021. Frankly I find that unrealistic in the franchise's current state; I think it'll either be one or the other.
I'm pretty sure that was just a prediction. I don't think they have any inside info on that.
 

Camjo-Z

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,958
Missed the discussion about it earlier but I think a major positive of the Chao Garden that's not always brought up is how much additional playtime it adds without feeling like obvious filler. Sonic games recently have had the problem of being very short and attempt to beef up the content with mini challenge levels that no one really likes as much as the real stages and pointless collectibles that you have to scour stages multiple times to find. With the Chao Garden on the other hand, you have a side mode that's already proven to be a hit with fans, provides hours of gameplay without feeling forced, and offers an organic reason to replay stages (collecting rings and resources from enemies to use on the Chao). Its return truly is a no-brainer.
 
Oct 28, 2017
9,350
Not a bad point, the brand is pretty laughable now... possibly beyond where it was immediately post-06. At least that game excited people. Honestly though, I think the biggest problem this series has faced over the years has been its inconsistency. Not even just the quality of games, but everything. Gameplay, art style, everything.

It's kinda amazing to me that it took this long for the series to truly start depreciating in sales, haha. So many disappointing/inconsistent games followed '06. Even middle of the road games like Sonic Unleashed were just... not consistent. You buy a Mario game to run and jump, you buy Doom to rip and tear, and you buy Sonic to fucking gamble and see what you get! It was no longer about fast-paced platforming, but that, plus the genre of the week. With '06 it was telekinesis, with Unleashed it was brawler gameplay; it took until Colors and Generations for them to actually sit down and decide the gameplay should be relatively consistent across the board, and the latter still segmented the gameplay between 2D and... a 2D/3D hybrid.

Then there's the vastly different tones between all games. Adventure 1 and 2 were pretty consistent, 2 perhaps escalated the drama and chaos but it still felt grounded in that world. Heroes comes around as a pseudo reboot with classic aesthetic, and then Shadow brings it back down to earth in a dark and realistic world. '06 doubles down on that, meanwhile the GBA and DS games are all happy-go-lucky, whimsical affairs. Unleashed was a decent middle ground between the two, and Colors goes full apeshit with the cartoon aesthetic. Generations tried to bring everything together and make it all somehow seem cohesive (and, honestly, I think they did a great job making everything seem like it could actually exist in the same world), and Forces... well, idk. Now I guess Sonic lives exclusively amongst other animals instead of human beings now!

I really think the biggest offender for this series has been its in consistency; in both quality, tone, and gameplay.
Thing is, after 06 I think people were willing to welcome the series back. It just needed its quality comeback game. In steps Unleashed. This was the game. This was the game that would make or break the franchise. Either Sonic would return to glory, or the door to that would be shut forever. The failure of Sonic Unleashed is the nail that the franchise is still feeling today. That was the end of AAA Sonic as we knew it. That was the idea of Sonic being one of the big franchises in gaming gone. From there Sonic became a small time franchise. A franchise that could just about survive on its small loyal fanbase and a small amount of kids it appeals to. The juggernaut of gaming died when Unleashed flopped. If Unleashed was the game it should have been, the series might be in a very different position today.
 

Lua

Member
Aug 9, 2018
1,124
People are willing to forgive a lot regarding a thing they really liked once, but everyone burns out at some point. Sonic was too inconsistent for too many years, that's really all there is to it's sales decline.
 

Solid SOAP

Member
Nov 27, 2017
1,276
Thing is, after 06 I think people were willing to welcome the series back. It just needed its quality comeback game. In steps Unleashed. This was the game. This was the game that would make or break the franchise. Either Sonic would return to glory, or the door to that would be shut forever. The failure of Sonic Unleashed is the nail that the franchise is still feeling today. That was the end of AAA Sonic as we knew it. That was the idea of Sonic being one of the big franchises in gaming gone. From there Sonic became a small time franchise. A franchise that could just about survive on its small loyal fanbase and a small amount of kids it appeals to. The juggernaut of gaming died when Unleashed flopped. If Unleashed was the game it should have been, the series might be in a very different position today.
It's kinda sad, because Unleashed had the skeleton of a good game. The production values were high, it looked beautiful (even today it still looks great, imo), it revamped Sonic's gameplay, but... they fucking decided to throw some gimmicky new gameplay into it! The game did not need to have the Werehog. It wasn't even terrible, broken, or sloppy, it was just inconsistent with what people want out of Sonic. If between levels in DKC Returns you had to like... go fishing or something, and it took several times longer than platforming levels, the game would not be well received no matter how good the actual levels were.

Unleashed didn't even flop, did it? I thought it reached about 5 million copies sold. Granted, I think most of those were Wii sales and that the HD versions didn't do great, but still.
 

N75

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,004
Unleashed didn't even flop, did it? I thought it reached about 5 million copies sold. Granted, I think most of those were Wii sales and that the HD versions didn't do great, but still.
I think the last reported figure was 2.45 million for all versions combined.


Also it looks like Black Knight bombed, which isn't surprising. The lowest number shown is Yakuza 3 with 500k sales.
 
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Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,955
People are willing to forgive a lot regarding a thing they really liked once, but everyone burns out at some point. Sonic was too inconsistent for too many years, that's really all there is to it's sales decline.
I think burn out is a large part of it but i also think its people don't believe sonic can or will give the thing they want.
Mania did really well, not just because its a good game, its just the thing a bunch of people wanted. No games, no concessions , its a classic ass classic sonic game. If you want that or that interests you , you got one of the best versions of that.

There's an entire fanbase of people who grew up with adventure shit who are grown ass adults with cash, who just haven't had shit to spend their money on and sega hasn't convinced them.

And if you are a younger fan of some of the more modern games, you are problably mad burnt out because the thing you like keeps getting messed up trying to appeal to the first two groups.

If they want sonic's sales to pick up, make a very specific type of sonic game for a very specific type of audience, well. They are going to have to put the time and the effort in to actually appeal to these other potential user bases. And the issue is they don't seem to be willing to do that. Which leads to conessions, and people not being interested, lack of quality ect. I would make the argument mania has made it worse. If you saw another section of the fanbase get the almost exact thing they wanted, the quality they wanted. Why would you even participate untill you also got that.

Its not just burn out, a buncha folks were buying stuff in hopes things would get better and a thing they wanted would happen. Not only did a thing not happen in some cases things got worse in their half assed attempts to appeal to you. I think if a good product of the thing they wanted was there... folks would buy. But it isn't and sega has made no indication that it ever will be. So why invest your time?
 
Oct 28, 2017
9,350
It's kinda sad, because Unleashed had the skeleton of a good game. The production values were high, it looked beautiful (even today it still looks great, imo), it revamped Sonic's gameplay, but... they fucking decided to throw some gimmicky new gameplay into it! The game did not need to have the Werehog. It wasn't even terrible, broken, or sloppy, it was just inconsistent with what people want out of Sonic. If between levels in DKC Returns you had to like... go fishing or something, and it took several times longer than platforming levels, the game would not be well received no matter how good the actual levels were.

Unleashed didn't even flop, did it? I thought it reached about 5 million copies sold. Granted, I think most of those were Wii sales and that the HD versions didn't do great, but still.
Wikipedia (I know lol) says Unleashed sold atound 2.45m. And I assume that combines the SD and HD versions which were completely different games. If Unleashed was quality I have no doubts it would have been a massive seller. Hype for it was high.
 

TreIII

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,882
Columbia, MD
Thing is, after 06 I think people were willing to welcome the series back. It just needed its quality comeback game. In steps Unleashed. This was the game. This was the game that would make or break the franchise. Either Sonic would return to glory, or the door to that would be shut forever. The failure of Sonic Unleashed is the nail that the franchise is still feeling today. That was the end of AAA Sonic as we knew it. That was the idea of Sonic being one of the big franchises in gaming gone. From there Sonic became a small time franchise. A franchise that could just about survive on its small loyal fanbase and a small amount of kids it appeals to. The juggernaut of gaming died when Unleashed flopped. If Unleashed was the game it should have been, the series might be in a very different position today.
See, I'd only disagree, in that I believe Unleashed was on the receiving end of a double-whammy.

06 already undermined consumer confidence in Sonic heavily by that point, such that, the next game in line needed to execute absolutely cleanly in order to get that confidence back. Even Secret Rings was largely given a mulligan, of sorts, because it was just another mediocre spinoff.

So Unleashed coming out, as we knew it with the Werehog, came off as more than a little tone deaf. Then about two years later, we started getting the "Needlemouse" thing, and we all knew what happened there, as well. A lot of goodwill had been eroded. What bits they got back for Generations and, later, Mania, just show that people obviously need more proof positive that Sega and Sonic Team are learning before Sonic can hope to recapture his old glory.
 

RedSwirl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,328
What's with all this retroactive enthusiasm for Sonic Adventure?

I played the shit out of both of them back in the day on the Dreamcast and GameCube and most of what was in those games was honestly meh. SA1 had a lot that was technologically impressive for a console game in 1999 and some neat narrative execution too, but it was also kind of a buggy, uneven mess.

Another Mania is a much safer bet, and even that was literally built on top of Genesis assets.
 
Oct 28, 2017
9,350
Side note: the opening of Unleashed is one of my favourite openings of any game ever. The game had a killer soundtrack one of my favourites in the series, it had really good production values and some really good ideas. It had really high highs. Such a shame so much of the game elsewhere was botched.
 

Lua

Member
Aug 9, 2018
1,124
I think burn out is a large part of it but i also think its people don't believe sonic can or will give the thing they want.
Mania did really well, not just because its a good game, its just the thing a bunch of people wanted. No games, no concessions , its a classic ass classic sonic game. If you want that or that interests you , you got one of the best versions of that.

There's an entire fanbase of people who grew up with adventure shit who are grown ass adults with cash, who just haven't had shit to spend their money on and sega hasn't convinced them.

And if you are a younger fan of some of the more modern games, you are problably mad burnt out because the thing you like keeps getting messed up trying to appeal to the first two groups.

If they want sonic's sales to pick up, make a very specific type of sonic game for a very specific type of audience, well. They are going to have to put the time and the effort in to actually appeal to these other potential user bases. And the issue is they don't seem to be willing to do that. Which leads to conessions, and people not being interested, lack of quality ect. I would make the argument mania has made it worse. If you saw another section of the fanbase get the almost exact thing they wanted, the quality they wanted. Why would you even participate untill you also got that.

Its not just burn out, a buncha folks were buying stuff in hopes things would get better and a thing they wanted would happen. Not only did a thing not happen in some cases things got worse in their half assed attempts to appeal to you. I think if a good product of the thing they wanted was there... folks would buy. But it isn't and sega has made no indication that it ever will be. So why invest your time?
I do agree with the bolded part but at the same time, if forces had happened in 2017 with no mania idk were the series would be now, because i feel like most of the good will since came from that game alone.

On a more general note, while i do agree with most of your points to me the burn out part refers more to brand self-respect in general. I don't like any sonic games after the saturn era besides mania, but i never had a problem with the new ones because they were cleary trying to push things foward and still felt like the team behind it had respect for the series. Nowadays i feel sonic needs to be a 4th wall breaker twitter meme to be relevant with a general public, because the games aren't good enough to hold attention for long, and that saddens me. I can't project this feeling on more people, but i do believe i'm not alone on this.
 

andymcc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,217
Columbus, OH
What's with all this retroactive enthusiasm for Sonic Adventure?

I played the shit out of both of them back in the day on the Dreamcast and GameCube and most of what was in those games was honestly meh. SA1 had a lot that was technologically impressive for a console game in 1999 and some neat narrative execution too, but it was also kind of a buggy, uneven mess.
SA1 was really beloved when it came out.
 

Solid SOAP

Member
Nov 27, 2017
1,276
What's with all this retroactive enthusiasm for Sonic Adventure?

I played the shit out of both of them back in the day on the Dreamcast and GameCube and most of what was in those games was honestly meh. SA1 had a lot that was technologically impressive for a console game in 1999 and some neat narrative execution too, but it was also kind of a buggy, uneven mess.

Another Mania is a much safer bet, and even that was literally built on top of Genesis assets.
It was pretty innovative at the time with its multiple playstyles and grand scope. It was their first forray into 3D gaming, and Iizuka said he would like to revisit it. I have a bit more confidence in Sonic Team revisiting an old game, trying to recapture what made it special, than I do with them making something completely new.

The question is though, if they are to remake this game, will they do justice to its original design, or will they retrofit it to be a boost game?
 

TreIII

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,882
Columbia, MD
On a more general note, while i do agree with most of your points to me the burn out part refers more to brand self-respect in general. I don't like any sonic games after the saturn era besides mania, but i never had a problem with the new ones because they were cleary trying to push things foward and still felt like the team behind it had respect for the series. Nowadays i feel sonic needs to be a 4th wall breaker twitter meme to be relevant with a general public, because the games aren't good enough to hold attention for long, and that saddens me. I can't project this feeling on more people, but i do believe i'm not alone on this.
On one hand, I do agree that it is a bit...sobering that the brand had to do this type of thing, at all, in order to maintain relevance.

But on the other hand, after a decade+'s worth of a spotty record of releases, at best, by the time Aaron Weber took over? I think encouraging the attitude of knowing how to laugh at yourself was one of the best ways to begin the "healing process". I hope that, one day, the brand will be in an overall better place, such that it can have a better range of humor that isn't always of the self-referential, self-deprecating type.

That's part of the reason I'm watching what happens in the next year and on are going to be so interesting. After all, everything from here on in is going to be truly to the beat of Sega of America's drum.
 

RedSwirl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,328
I mean, Sonic's levels were pretty good in the SA games, the hub exploration was quaint, and the cut scenes were at the forefront of what you could do in real-time cut scenes on consoles at the time, but I honestly think you could leave behind just about everything else in those games. Even then I feel like Sega has already spent years trying to polish up Sonic's gameplay from SA without any unambiguous success.

Maybe it's just that I haven't played SA in at least a solid decade or something (I do happen to have my Dreamcast hooked up right now).
 
Oct 28, 2017
9,350
It was pretty innovative at the time with its multiple playstyles and grand scope. It was their first forray into 3D gaming, and Iizuka said he would like to revisit it. I have a bit more confidence in Sonic Team revisiting an old game, trying to recapture what made it special, than I do with them making something completely new.

The question is though, if they are to remake this game, will they do justice to its original design, or will they retrofit it to be a boost game?
They wouldn't dare retrofit it to be a boost game. I could see them taking some liberties with it and making some big changes, but I'd expect them to aim for for the core of what Sonic Adventure was supposed to be to be in tact.
 

Solid SOAP

Member
Nov 27, 2017
1,276
They wouldn't dare retrofit it to be a boost game. I could see them taking some liberties with it and making some big changes, but I'd expect them to aim for for the core of what Sonic Adventure was supposed to be to be in tact.
Hopefully. I guess we'll see in the coming months, lol. It's hard to guess what their next, erm, "big" project will be, tbh. Frankly if they're not gonna do a remake of some sort or Mania 2, I'd much prefer them to make smaller budget games for limited release and download. Something like Rush or the Advance games for release at $20-30 would be great. Give it a cool art style and music and that would be great!
 

Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,955
I do agree with the bolded part but at the same time, if forces had happened in 2017 with no mania idk were the series would be now, because i feel like most of the good will since came from that game alone.

On a more general note, while i do agree with most of your points to me the burn out part refers more to brand self-respect in general. I don't like any sonic games after the saturn era besides mania, but i never had a problem with the new ones because they were cleary trying to push things foward and still felt like the team behind it had respect for the series. Nowadays i feel sonic needs to be a 4th wall breaker twitter meme to be relevant with a general public, because the games aren't good enough to hold attention for long, and that saddens me. I can't project this feeling on more people, but i do believe i'm not alone on this.
You are not alone in that thought. Sonic's forth wall nature as of late for many people has worn thin and isn't really pushing copies. Folks will invest in a dumb thing that's good and they like rather than a thing trying to self ridicule and isn't good. The self ridicule drawing more attention to its flaws.

On that note , i'm gonna talk about tone a bit.

If I am to be bit more cynical, I believe the situation is actually a bit more dire than that, and it plays into that. Sonic since the trash fire that was sonic 06 has essentially tailored its image to be more friendly to the adults that had been criticizing the nature of the games in the adventure era. And it never really worked, these people never really invested and sales continued to dwindle, even when games were good. And those same adults continued to clown on those games. Those people outside of mania, never invested. They hold panels as to why sonic was never good, there was no return on investment with that. The suggestion could be made well its more for children, issue with that is, kids didn't stop liking convoluted bullshit because sonic 06 happened. They could have released an adventure type game after that and it was good and it would have been fine. Yes Hindsight is 20/20 and at the time 06 seemed like the biggest garbage fire in the world. But I feel as a buisness its your job to like, look at the future and not just reactionarily adjust to every issue. Unfortunately the latter is how a lot of business do things.

Trust me this is going somewhere

Not only , did kids not stop liking dumb bullshit with stroies. It intensifies. RIght at the moment that sonic decides that it needs to leave all that lore shit behind, every franchise and thier goddamn moma becomes lore hounds. From Adventure time and MLP to the entire MCU all entertainment went" No invest in our dumb bullshit, in our silly worlds and characters " Now sega could have took the hint, and to be fair someone at sega from america did with sonic boom to varying degrees. But for the most part sega just largely seemed blinds to the goings on of its actual contemplates. And just doubled down on its thinking that these jaded adults were a good investment strategy. And trying to copy mario, a series that had long since stopped being its contemporary and who's now rubbing shoulders with mickey mouse at this point. Quite literally with the Nintendo land shit

Now when I say adult I mean a very specific era and or temperment of adult. Obviously there are people who were children when all the 06 and post 06 stuff kicked off who are adults now. But what I mean is this older, classic sonic focused nostalgic crowd that didn't like all this adventure era stuff is what I mean by adult. That's who they were aiming for... and failed.

So where are those people now? Gone. They bought mania and dipped. They didn't care about the fourthwall jokes and all the self deprication, they only wanted a sonic game that looked like and played like what they remember as a kid. And they got that.

Where does that leave sega, in a dire position. You see remember when I mentioned they are paying attention to their contemplates? Sega has been making a bunch of descions in regards to charactes, stories and tone because they seem like they are gonna start using them again and possibly taking themselves a smidge bit more seriously in regards to sonic? So yay right? No, most of its bad. Not just bad, but bad in a way that suggests they...don't understand why people liked that stuff in the first place. Simplyfying things way too fair in a world where again, a show like my little pony of all things can have dramatic tone shifts. Someone behind the scenes very clearly thinks that kids can't handle some fun weird sillynes. But that's kind of what the franchise is built on.

So not only does this indicate that no one is sega is looking at sonic's actual contemplates, things like TMNT, transformers, various CN shows and the like, actual new video games franchises that are doing well with children with weird crazy lore they invest in with tone shifts. They don't even remember or have people there who know why people liked the sonic stuff they liked because there was a point where that was sonic's appeal. This statement can apply to gameplay too. They just don't seem to know why anyone likes anything. That's what happens when you decide that the thing that will keep a franchise known for its weird bullshit that appeals to kids relevant are adults who never gave a fuck.
The future is uh... bright. Is what i'm saying
 
Oct 28, 2017
9,350
I'm really hoping the movie shocks everyone, turns out to be amazing and becomes a surprise hit at the box office. Then all of a sudden Sonic gets mainstream attention because of it, the next game comes out and is great and people care about the games again.
 

muteKi

Member
Oct 22, 2018
12,342
a sunken pirate ship
It's kinda sad, because Unleashed had the skeleton of a good game. The production values were high, it looked beautiful (even today it still looks great, imo), it revamped Sonic's gameplay, but... they fucking decided to throw some gimmicky new gameplay into it! The game did not need to have the Werehog. It wasn't even terrible, broken, or sloppy, it was just inconsistent with what people want out of Sonic. If between levels in DKC Returns you had to like... go fishing or something, and it took several times longer than platforming levels, the game would not be well received no matter how good the actual levels were.

Unleashed didn't even flop, did it? I thought it reached about 5 million copies sold. Granted, I think most of those were Wii sales and that the HD versions didn't do great, but still.
See I think the basic idea of Unleashed's night stages was pretty great, and it feels like the last time they consistently built 3D stages with any real ambition behind them besides just quick step movement, which I think I come away with because of the fact that the werehog stages were still focused on 3D platforming. The focus on combat was frustrating mostly because of the fact that the only thing that really mattered was positioning once you unlock the powerful running attacks (I'll still take the goofy fuzz sonic over one-man pity party kratos though), so it was mostly inconsequential the few times you couldn't skip it. The first time around playing it I only liked the night stages, because they weren't so ungodly twitchy and they were still pretty fast when you actually knew what you were doing.

Colors was fine, I guess, but the few moments where the 3D layouts felt consequential and not just autorun bits were so rare that they really stood out. And I just don't think 3D Sonic works in 2D very much; I significantly preferred the DS game because it committed to the 2D design from the get-go.
 

RedSwirl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,328
Shit I forgot about Generations. Bought it on Steam like centuries ago and still haven't started it. Is it even worth it at this point?
 

Gold Arsene

Member
Oct 27, 2017
23,876
Let the boost formula fucking die already.

Or at the very least have Blaze playable. I'm so sick of it being just Sonic.