SEGA/Sonic Team Announces #SONIC2020 Campaign, With New Logo And Promotional Art

muteKi

Member
Oct 22, 2018
12,342
a sunken pirate ship
Shit I forgot about Generations. Bought it on Steam like centuries ago and still haven't started it. Is it even worth it at this point?
It's very good. Absolutely one of the best in the series. People might get down on the classic stages in the era of Mania, but I think it's still very good and has a distinct but very nice formula that's reminiscent of the better ideas of the Rush series and the fun of messing with the SA1 overpowered spin dash
 

Solid SOAP

Member
Nov 27, 2017
1,276
Shit I forgot about Generations. Bought it on Steam like centuries ago and still haven't started it. Is it even worth it at this point?
Do you like Sonic games? If so then yes. It looks great, and most of the levels are really fun. Modern Sonic is much more fun than Classic; the latter feels like a pale imitation of the original games, while Modern is just a fresh and fun take on Sonic level design. The problem with Classic Sonic is that he controls quite sluggishly. The levels are still fun, but don't expect the game to feel like Mania.

The game is short and sweet, you can beat it in an afternoon then shoot for better times in the levels. Well worth a play.
 
Oct 27, 2017
714
The best part of SA1 is the physics. Iron out the jankiness and you have a great 3D take on Classic Sonic formula.

So I'm 100% sure the eventual SA1 remake will be made in Losr World engine, like Forces was.
 

muteKi

Member
Oct 22, 2018
12,342
a sunken pirate ship
It'd be nice if SEGA were to port Lost World to modern consoles. Seems like a halfway decent game.
It'll run pretty well on even a halfway decent PC at least. I haven't tried the WiiU version but I do think some of the stuff involving Wisps, etc. that already relied mostly on touchpad stuff to work felt especially underbaked in the transition to more 'traditional' controller schemes.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,176
Oh, and 06 is a much worse game than Forces. There are times where 06 flat out doesn't fucking work. It's fundamentally broken.

I can't even comprehend how that's even up for debate.
I don’t think anyone is arguing otherwise. 06 is obviously the more broken, unfinished game. I think the point being made is that it may be a worse game, but it is completely more interesting than Forces by virtue of it’s ambition and trying something different (although failing horribly). Where Forces may be more polished and complete however, no one will remember or return to it for any reason other than citing how bland and nothing it was.
 

Aaron

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,771
SA1 was really beloved when it came out.
SA2 also reviewed very favorably upon its Dreamcast release. The GameCube version suffered but is also the highest selling third party game on GameCube in the US.

If anything I’m more surprised by the folks who act like they were hated all along. They had their critics, sure, but the games were pretty well received at the time of release and still carry a lot of good will.
 

RedSwirl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,328
Sigh...

I do get the sense that Sonic Team in Japan is a bit out of touch, and in fact might have been since around the early 00's. It's also true that Sonic has different "wings" of its fanbase: the oldest people who grew up on the Genesis games and haven't given a fuck about Sonic since approximately 1995 but came back for Mania (critics are mostly in this part of the fanbase), the people who grew up on Sonic Adventure, the people who grew up on Sonic 06 and everything that has come since, etc. Maybe getting those mixed signals from those fanbases is part of what has Sonic Team confused.

I agree that recent cartoons prove you probably could make a new Sonic game/cartoon with a deep setting that gets serious from time-to-time. Sonic Team seems to have pretty tight constraints on how it wants Sonic portrayed though, as evidenced by the limits it's putting on Ian Flynn with the IDW comic. Plus Sonic Team already gave the reigns to some westerners to write a new Sonic setting and Sonic Boom was the result. I don't know if they can be convinced to do that again to, for instance, come up with something tonally similar to the Flynn comics (both his Archie and IDW work).

Gameplay-wise, I'm honestly starting to think they should look at Mania as a new foundation to build on. Don't just look to the past, but build on the past and look at where the past might have headed. The idea behind Mania was to build a 2D Sonic that could have theoretically come out in 1996. Think about what those games meant and how they can bring that into 3D.

I don't know man. It might be time to accept that Sonic is one of those classic franchises that never really broke the polygon ceiling, like Castlevania, Mega Man (because you motherfuckers didn't buy Legends), and a bunch of other 8 and 16-bit mascots. Nintendo's franchises were an anomaly in that regard if you really think about it. Nintendo was willing to change Mario on an almost fundamental level to get it to work in 3D (even there, 3D Land and 3D World show us an alternate universe 3D Mario that follows a 3D upgrade template more conventional to the PS1/N64 era). The level to which it innovated its interface in Zelda was monumental. Metroid Prime is another place where the stars sort of aligned when you look at the story of its development. In a more general sense SEGA has already accepted that it ain't Nintendo.

SA2 also reviewed very favorably upon its Dreamcast release.
I remember SA2 actually getting pretty mixed reviews in 2001.
 

Solid SOAP

Member
Nov 27, 2017
1,276
I agree that recent cartoons prove you probably could make a new Sonic game/cartoon with a deep setting that gets serious from time-to-time. Sonic Team seems to have pretty tight constraints on how it wants Sonic portrayed though, as evidenced by the limits it's putting on Ian Flynn with the IDW comic. Plus Sonic Team already gave the reigns to some westerners to write a new Sonic setting and Sonic Boom was the result. I don't know if they can be convinced to do that again to, for instance, come up with something tonally similar to the Flynn comics (both his Archie and IDW work).
Boom was such a missed opportunity for the franchise, haha. The show seemed fine for kids and had some nice humor for adults, but the game tie-ins... how did they fuck them up so badly?

It's like SEGA in its entirety is mismanaged. Didn't they tell the Boom: Rise of Lyric devs that the game was being made with PS4 hardware in mind, which is why it turned out so poorly?

Maybe they could do some kind of tie-in with the Flynn comics or something. I haven't read them or anything, but stylistically they seem pretty cool and like something that could adapt well to a game. They already have what seems like a cool character to buddy-up with the rest of the cast, and I particularly love this cover art:

 
Nov 14, 2017
1,093
Boom was such a missed opportunity for the franchise, haha. The show seemed fine for kids and had some nice humor for adults, but the game tie-ins... how did they fuck them up so badly?

It's like SEGA in its entirety is mismanaged. Didn't they tell the Boom: Rise of Lyric devs that the game was being made with PS4 hardware in mind, which is why it turned out so poorly?

Maybe they could do some kind of tie-in with the Flynn comics or something. I haven't read them or anything, but stylistically they seem pretty cool and like something that could adapt well to a game. They already have what seems like a cool character to buddy-up with the rest of the cast, and I particularly love this cover art:
I just finished reading the IDW comic for the first time and goddamn I'd kill for a game like that. The first arc is just a do-over for Sonic Heroes and it ruled.
 

andymcc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,217
Columbus, OH
Sigh...

I do get the sense that Sonic Team in Japan is a bit out of touch, and in fact might have been since around the early 00's. It's also true that Sonic has different "wings" of its fanbase: the oldest people who grew up on the Genesis games and haven't given a fuck about Sonic since approximately 1995 but came back for Mania (critics are mostly in this part of the fanbase), the people who grew up on Sonic Adventure, the people who grew up on Sonic 06 and everything that has come since, etc. Maybe getting those mixed signals from those fanbases is part of what has Sonic Team confused.

I agree that recent cartoons prove you probably could make a new Sonic game/cartoon with a deep setting that gets serious from time-to-time. Sonic Team seems to have pretty tight constraints on how it wants Sonic portrayed though, as evidenced by the limits it's putting on Ian Flynn with the IDW comic. Plus Sonic Team already gave the reigns to some westerners to write a new Sonic setting and Sonic Boom was the result. I don't know if they can be convinced to do that again to, for instance, come up with something tonally similar to the Flynn comics (both his Archie and IDW work).

Gameplay-wise, I'm honestly starting to think they should look at Mania as a new foundation to build on. Don't just look to the past, but build on the past and look at where the past might have headed. The idea behind Mania was to build a 2D Sonic that could have theoretically come out in 1996. Think about what those games meant and how they can bring that into 3D.

I don't know man. It might be time to accept that Sonic is one of those classic franchises that never really broke the polygon ceiling, like Castlevania, Mega Man (because you motherfuckers didn't buy Legends), and a bunch of other 8 and 16-bit mascots. Nintendo's franchises were an anomaly in that regard if you really think about it. Nintendo was willing to change Mario on an almost fundamental level to get it to work in 3D (even there, 3D Land and 3D World show us an alternate universe 3D Mario that follows a 3D upgrade template more conventional to the PS1/N64 era). The level to which it innovated its interface in Zelda was monumental. Metroid Prime is another place where the stars sort of aligned when you look at the story of its development. In a more general sense SEGA has already accepted that it ain't Nintendo.



I remember SA2 actually getting pretty mixed reviews in 2001.
https://www.gamespot.com/reviews/sonic-adventure-2-review/1900-2777051/

https://www.ign.com/articles/2001/06/22/sonic-adventure-2
 

muteKi

Member
Oct 22, 2018
12,342
a sunken pirate ship
Maybe they could do some kind of tie-in with the Flynn comics or something. I haven't read them or anything, but stylistically they seem pretty cool and like something that could adapt well to a game. They already have what seems like a cool character to buddy-up with the rest of the cast, and I particularly love this cover art:
Huh, is that supposed to be the city from Forces?
 

BlazeHedgehog

Member
Oct 27, 2017
451
Huh, is that supposed to be the city from Forces?
I believe the comics open directly after the events of Sonic Forces, during the post "war" clean-up, though they do that weird thing where I'm pretty sure they aren't allowed to directly say that. Like nobody ever references Infinite or anything of that sort.

I think the closest they get is saying the name "Imperial City" which might also be referenced in a line of dialog from Forces.

But given the first major story arc is a jumbled up retelling of Sonic Heroes, I guess it makes sense that they wouldn't want to specifically nail down the game timeline
 
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Zippo

Zippo

Member
Dec 8, 2017
7,089
Sonic Adventure 2 was divisive right from the start. I don't know where people got this idea that it was just this universally loved game. It never was.
 

stealthyfrog

Avenger
Jan 6, 2019
11,068
I still like Sonic Adventure 2 for its camp and the Sonic/Shadow gameplay, but I don't think it's actually a good game.
 

Syril

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,315
Sonic Adventure 2 was divisive right from the start. I don't know where people got this idea that it was just this universally loved game. It never was.
I remember back at the time I had a huge beef with the fact that it pinballed between three different games, and I really hated Knuckles/Rouge's parts because of how disproportionately long they were with their design. I'm playing it again now and they're a lot more tolerable to me mainly because I modded the game to make the radar work on all three emeralds at once.
 

TheDinoman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,548
What's with all this retroactive enthusiasm for Sonic Adventure?

I played the shit out of both of them back in the day on the Dreamcast and GameCube and most of what was in those games was honestly meh. SA1 had a lot that was technologically impressive for a console game in 1999 and some neat narrative execution too, but it was also kind of a buggy, uneven mess.

Another Mania is a much safer bet, and even that was literally built on top of Genesis assets.
One thing you have to consider is that a lot of people that grew up with those games as children and thus have nostalgia for them are now posting online on internet forums.

It's kinda like how you suddenly have people feeling nostalgic for the Star Wars prequels even though we all dumped on those movies when they came out. In a lot of ways, Sonic the Hedgehog basically is the Star Wars of video games. I made a big write up about it in another thread that I'll just repost:

You have the original trilogies, that are the most iconic and beloved in their series. Then you have the prequels and the Adventure era that both started in 1999, which attracted newer younger fans all while turning off older fans and critics with their corny dialogue, weird new characters/stories, and technical issues. Then we have the 2010's films/games, which play more off of nostalgia for the original trilogies. People liked the back-to-basics approach at first, but then they started getting bored with the surface-level throwbacks and inability to do something new or really understand why people liked the older stuff.

Like how you have people that obviously grew up with the prequels during the mid-2000s expressing their dissastification with the new movies, you have people that grew up with the 3D Sonics during the mid-2000s expressing their dissastifcation with the new games.

 
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Zippo

Zippo

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Dec 8, 2017
7,089
maybe by some fans (myself included) but not by most critics.
For whatever reason, people kind of ignored the more critical reviews.

I remember back at the time I had a huge beef with the fact that it pinballed between three different games, and I really hated Knuckles/Rouge's parts because of how disproportionately long they were with their design. I'm playing it again now and they're a lot more tolerable to me mainly because I modded the game to make the radar work on all three emeralds at once.
Well yeah, that was ons of the common criticisms of the game back in the day and it's one of the main reasons people don't like the game now. That mod would make it leagues more tolerable.
 
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Zippo

Zippo

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Dec 8, 2017
7,089
One thing you have to consider is that a lot of people that grew up with those games as children and thus have nostalgia for them are now posting online on internet forums.

It's kinda like how you suddenly have people feeling nostalgic for the Star Wars prequels even though we all dumped on those movies when they came out. In a lot of ways, Sonic the Hedgehog basically is the Star Wars of video games. I made a big write up about it in another thread that I'll just repost:
Yeah. It's a good similarity. Both Sonic and Star Wars are currently in a phase where many people are rallying against both franchises due to subpar entries. Mania and Force Awakens are also both long awaited nostalgic throwbacks that also function as sequels. They've also both had common criticism levied at them about both of them doing nothing new.

It seems like both SEGA and Disney have no idea what to do with these franchises, at present.
 
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muteKi

Member
Oct 22, 2018
12,342
a sunken pirate ship
It's kinda like how you suddenly have people feeling nostalgic for the Star Wars prequels even though we all dumped on those movies when they came out. In a lot of ways, Sonic the Hedgehog basically is the Star Wars of video games.
Naw, Robotnik doesn't rebuild the Death Egg enough times for that to make sense :P

Actually now I want to figure out what the Sonic equivalent to the Holiday Special is
 

RedSwirl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,328
Yeah. It's a good similarity. Both Sonic and Star Wars are currently in a phase where many people are rallying against both franchises due to subpar entries. Mania and Force Awakens are also both long awaited nostalgic throwbacks that also function as sequels. They've also both had common criticism levied at them about both of them doing nothing new.

It seems like both SEGA and Disney have no idea what to do with these franchises, at present.
Mania was put together by modders. Force Awakens was the flagship of one of the world’s biggest entertainment entities.
 
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Zippo

Zippo

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Dec 8, 2017
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Mania was put together by modders. Force Awakens was the flagship of one of the world’s biggest entertainment entities.
That's...not the point. What's important is that both were made/directed by longtime fans and they're both seen as "apologies" by both franchise fans. Positively or negatively.
 

muteKi

Member
Oct 22, 2018
12,342
a sunken pirate ship
There already is a Christmas special.

No, I'm not so much thinking about "holiday special" I'm thinking more about the place the star wars holiday special has in its series: an early-life entry in the series that took the same form, but downscaled. Is largely derided by fans for being tonally inconsistent and weirdly paced, and predates most of the content that the fans actually enjoy, but was made with cooperation from a lot of the primary cast and staff.

So I guess what I'm thinking of is obviously Game Gear Sonic 2, which probably makes Sonic Labyrinth and Blast the TV spinoffs centered on the Ewoks or something
 

RedSwirl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,328
That's...not the point. What's important is that both were made/directed by longtime fans and they're both seen as "apologies" by both franchise fans. Positively or negatively.
My point was you can kinda see the production reasons behind Mania using so much from the Genesis games — It’s a glorified Sonic 2 mod. TFA was a wholly original production with millions and millions of dollars behind it that still had to rely on nostalgia.

But I digress. I see that there are different “generations” of Sonic fans. On my personal opinion even the best post-Adventure games have just been okay. I say this as someone who will probably quote SA2 cut scenes till the day I die. Maybe if we got a game with all the crazy Sonic lore that included gameplay as good as A Hat in Time or recent Ratchet games or something (I’m just tossing out names of well-received recent 3D platformers) critics wouldn’t pile on it.

That’s the problem though: 3D platformers these days are a genre in which you could get away with saying only Nintendo truly excels anymore.
 

TreIII

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,882
Columbia, MD
Yeah. It's a good similarity. Both Sonic and Star Wars are currently in a phase where many people are rallying against both franchises due to subpar entries. Mania and Force Awakens are also both long awaited nostalgic throwbacks that also function as sequels. They've also both had common criticism levied at them about both of them doing nothing new.

It seems like both SEGA and Disney have no idea what to do with these franchises, at present.
See, at least with Disney/Lucasarts, you can argue that they can afford to bide their time and ride it out. For example, Star Wars in the gaming sphere may not be doing everything every single SW gaming fan wants at the moment, but what games there are still sell well, and there's more on the way. The Marvel comics run, as well as streaming shows and cartoons (Mandolorian, TCW's last season, whatever else Filoni is up to) will be fine. Whatever "Project Luminous" ends up being as a multimedia project, and all the whole "High Republic" thing that's apparently in the pipeline? If they play their cards right, there won't be too many people still crying about the New Trilogy in a few more years. They'll be loving and/or complaining about something else~!

Sega and Sonic Team, on the other hand, don't have that same luxury. You got IDW comics that are delighting most, even though I admit that I'm hoping the Zombot arc wrap up sticks the landing in a few months. You got sporadic, but very welcome content from the likes of Tee Lopes and Tyson Hesse. Then there's the official twitter remaining a source of delight and sensible chuckles...and for now, that's about all we have. We're left guessing about the fate of Mania's follow-up, whatever path 3D Sonic will take next and/or if the Adventure remakes or successor is on the way. There's no cartoon on the airways right now (unless you count Sonic X re-airing in Japan for the lead-up to the movie's release). The movie...is something, but at least it seems safe to presume it likely won't be another "Cats" fiasco, now.


All that to say is that I personally feel one brand at least seems like it's already moving on to the next thing, and all parts of the machine are chugging along with a visible "plan" seemingly in the making. I can't really say the same for the other, at least, again, going by what we have currently.
 
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Zippo

Zippo

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Dec 8, 2017
7,089
My point was you can kinda see the production reasons behind Mania using so much from the Genesis games — It’s a glorified Sonic 2 mod. TFA was a wholly original production with millions and millions of dollars behind it that still had to rely on nostalgia.

But I digress. I see that there are different “generations” of Sonic fans. On my personal opinion even the best post-Adventure games have just been okay. I say this as someone who will probably quote SA2 cut scenes till the day I die. Maybe if we got a game with all the crazy Sonic lore that included gameplay as good as A Hat in Time or recent Ratchet games or something (I’m just tossing out names of well-received recent 3D platformers) critics wouldn’t pile on it.

That’s the problem though: 3D platformers these days are a genre in which you could get away with saying only Nintendo truly excels anymore.
That is my point though. Sonic and Star Wars are franchises that are both victims of having to rely on nostalgia to get any positive recognition. The circumstances of their productions is a whole different thing, but i do agree with most of that. While i don't care for Adventure 2, they had something solid there with the Sonic/Shadow gameplay, and if they built upon that, they may actually have something worth celebrating.

On the whole 3D platformer thing, Nintendo does excel but they're barely even making those themselves anymore. Mario Odyssey is reaching 3 years old soon.
 
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Zippo

Zippo

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Dec 8, 2017
7,089
See, at least with Disney/Lucasarts, you can argue that they can afford to bide their time and ride it out. For example, Star Wars in the gaming sphere may not be doing everything every single SW gaming fan wants at the moment, but what games there are still sell well, and there's more on the way. The Marvel comics run, as well as streaming shows and cartoons (Mandolorian, TCW's last season, whatever else Filoni is up to) will be fine. Whatever "Project Luminous" ends up being as a multimedia project, and all the whole "High Republic" thing that's apparently in the pipeline? If they play their cards right, there won't be too many people still crying about the New Trilogy in a few more years. They'll be loving and/or complaining about something else~!

Sega and Sonic Team, on the other hand, don't have that same luxury. You got IDW comics that are delighting most, even though I admit that I'm hoping the Zombot arc wrap up sticks the landing in a few months. You got sporadic, but very welcome content from the likes of Tee Lopes and Tyson Hesse. Then there's the official twitter remaining a source of delight and sensible chuckles...and for now, that's about all we have. We're left guessing about the fate of Mania's follow-up, whatever path 3D Sonic will take next and/or if the Adventure remakes or successor is on the way. There's no cartoon on the airways right now (unless you count Sonic X re-airing in Japan for the lead-up to the movie's release). The movie...is something, but at least it seems safe to presume it likely won't be another "Cats" fiasco, now.


All that to say is that I personally feel one brand at least seems like it's already moving on to the next thing, and all parts of the machine are chugging along with a visible "plan" seemingly in the making. I can't really say the same for the other, at least, again, going by what we have currently.
This is another good one. Besides the subpar films, Star Wars is doing quite alright. Fallen Order, the comics and the Mandalorian are great. They've got a great director for the Obi Wan series, Jon Favreau, Kevin Feige and Taika Watiti are all going to have some say in the movies going forward, the High Republic is already being name dropped and is more or less their MCU.
We may not know their roadmap yet, but we're starting to figure it out.

Can't say the same for Sonic at all. The mainline games have been messy to say the least, Mania aside of course, the movie had a long, compilcated production, Boom was a faceplant, Archie is a disaster worthy of a documentary, etc. The only thing that's had consistent high quality is the comics, and even then, they're 1 for like, what, 12? This Sonic Pillar was put in place for a reason and I truly hope they can get it together. We're going into the 30th anniversary with a lot of uncertainty at the moment.
 
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Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,955
Boom was such a missed opportunity for the franchise, haha. The show seemed fine for kids and had some nice humor for adults, but the game tie-ins... how did they fuck them up so badly?

It's like SEGA in its entirety is mismanaged. Didn't they tell the Boom: Rise of Lyric devs that the game was being made with PS4 hardware in mind, which is why it turned out so poorly?

Maybe they could do some kind of tie-in with the Flynn comics or something. I haven't read them or anything, but stylistically they seem pretty cool and like something that could adapt well to a game. They already have what seems like a cool character to buddy-up with the rest of the cast, and I particularly love this cover art:
Boom is weird because from the games and the info that was given out that world was supposed to be a lot deeper and have lore. The games were just as games, unfun. Particularly ROL. And due to that failure and the comics the whole thing kinda just shut down. While I don't think boom was perfect, it had neat ideas.

Also as far as comic characters go, give up on that. If they didn't make them, they ain't using em. Heck, in the case of sticks , even if they did make them. But they weren't able to define who they are, they aren't using em
 

RedSwirl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,328
That is my point though. Sonic and Star Wars are franchises that are both victims of having to rely on nostalgia to get any positive recognition. The circumstances of their productions is a whole different thing, but i do agree with most of that. While i don't care for Adventure 2, they had something solid there with the Sonic/Shadow gameplay, and if they built upon that, they may actually have something worth celebrating.

On the whole 3D platformer thing, Nintendo does excel but they're barely even making those themselves anymore. Mario Odyssey is reaching 3 years old soon.
As other people have noted though, we know Disney is capable of making good Star Wars without relying on nostalgia (at least to the degree TFA did). We haven't seen SEGA demonstrate this. At best it has been able to use nostalgia as a sort of "back to basics" foundation.
 

Ogodei

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
8,891
Coruscant
The issue with Mania is how do you do it again? Yeah they could do another batch of new levels and bosses and it would be a fine game, but Mania was the full tour of classic Sonic and the mix of new. It would need to be something with a new idea in the vein of Knuckles Chaotix.

One of the main things that's made Sonic so stale since Unleashed was that they fixated on this as the one way in which to do Sonic, with the only attempt at experimentation in the mainline franchise since then being Lost World (and I'll never stop lamenting that Lost World was not followed up on. Like Metroid Other M, the good was doomed by the bad and more importantly, the poor sales). The essence of Sonic beforehand was constant reinvention; let's make it semi-co-op, let's add time travel exploration elements, let's add divergent character gameplay. Even the 3D games up to and including Unleashed maintained this spirit.

As much as I don't think Sonic Utopia or its ilk of fan projects would be *good* beyond their novelty, Sonic Team needs to think in that direction. It's time to usher in a new epoch, let the Boost era die with the old decade.

I do think there should be a Mania 2 but it should also think outside the box. Maybe something like a 2D Sonic Heroes but with the character swapping used for more than just "use this character to hop past this obstacle" like Heroes devolved into.
 

Solid SOAP

Member
Nov 27, 2017
1,276
The issue with Mania is how do you do it again? Yeah they could do another batch of new levels and bosses and it would be a fine game, but Mania was the full tour of classic Sonic and the mix of new. It would need to be something with a new idea in the vein of Knuckles Chaotix.
Not necessarily. I feel like they could simply hire Evening Star to just make a game compiled of all new levels, no? Maybe add a new move or two ala the drop dash.
 
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Zippo

Zippo

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Dec 8, 2017
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I'm pretty sure most would be happy with Sonic Mania 2 just having all new levels with new twists and tropes and adding Amy to the cast.
 

Solid SOAP

Member
Nov 27, 2017
1,276
To me that has shades of Sonic Advance 2 or the whole concept of Sonic 4. Good red meat but you're left wondering what might have been.
Didn't Sonic Advance 2 change up the game mechanics to have each character be really speedy? Definitely more than just new levels to it, imo.

Sonic 4 is not good red meat, lol. Episode I is legitimate garbage, and Episode II introduced a dumb, clunky team mechanic that actively took away from the game's design. Would've been better to just have Sonic and Tails control like their classic selves.
 
Nov 14, 2017
1,093
I'm pretty sure most would be happy with Sonic Mania 2 just having all new levels with new twists and tropes and adding Amy to the cast.
This

All 5 from Mania Plus + Amy, all new levels, and a few new gimmicks (maybe new elemental shields?) would be plenty. They don't need to reinvent the wheel when said wheel isn't even being used right now.
 

BlazeHedgehog

Member
Oct 27, 2017
451
Didn't Sonic Advance 2 change up the game mechanics to have each character be really speedy? Definitely more than just new levels to it, imo.

Sonic 4 is not good red meat, lol. Episode I is legitimate garbage, and Episode II introduced a dumb, clunky team mechanic that actively took away from the game's design. Would've been better to just have Sonic and Tails control like their classic selves.
Yeah, Sonic Advance 2 is basically a prototype for what would eventually become Sonic Rush
 

Professor Beef

Official ResetEra™ Chao Puncher
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,441
The Digital World
Missed the discussion about it earlier but I think a major positive of the Chao Garden that's not always brought up is how much additional playtime it adds without feeling like obvious filler. Sonic games recently have had the problem of being very short and attempt to beef up the content with mini challenge levels that no one really likes as much as the real stages and pointless collectibles that you have to scour stages multiple times to find. With the Chao Garden on the other hand, you have a side mode that's already proven to be a hit with fans, provides hours of gameplay without feeling forced, and offers an organic reason to replay stages (collecting rings and resources from enemies to use on the Chao). Its return truly is a no-brainer.
people don't like having their time wasted, which is all the chao garden is

a time waster
 
Dec 15, 2017
686
There's already a really nice looking Amy mod for it showing how she could work.
Her jump is insane! At first I thought it was a cool dynamic since it seemed like she didn't have a spin dash but had the piko hammer instead, but then about 1:30 in she also has a spin dash.

Still cool, and I would really like for Amy and Blaze to be playable in a Sonic Mania 2

Most of all I just want a Mania 2.
 

Camjo-Z

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,958
people don't like having their time wasted, which is all the chao garden is

a time waster
Pokemon Camp went viral with nothing but a ball to throw and a stick to waggle. A modern Chao Garden would most certainly be a massive hit.

Granted, I think there are definitely a lot of ways to improve it. In SA2 there can be a lot of downtime just waiting for something to happen. They could add a way to directly play with your Chao besides merely handing them items, a more in-depth dress-up and customization feature, a photo mode with lots of ways to pose them, more minigames where you don't just sit and watch, etc. Things to make it more active and feel less like a "time waster".
 

Solid SOAP

Member
Nov 27, 2017
1,276
people don't like having their time wasted, which is all the chao garden is

a time waster
People do like taking care of critters, though. There's a lot of "time-wasting" in games like Pokemon (e.g.; setting up camp, playing with Pokemon, making curry, etc.), but people still love it. If SEGA were to implement said features into a Chao Garden I think people would eat it up... granted they execute it right, both feature-wise and marketing-wise. The series obviously is not at its highest when it comes to accolades, so SEGA would really need to sell the Chao Garden aspect of the game right. People are saying left and right that it should be laden with microtransactions... and they probably could get away with it, but be careful. I hate gambling shit in games.