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Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice |OT2| Domo Arigato, Mr. ROBERTOOOOO!!!

Oct 29, 2017
2,600
I did some extensive testing with it. I think the only change is that it guarantees frame advantage now, regardless of whether it's blocked or deflected. I tested on armored red hat, purple ninja, and fencer enemies. Unfortunately no bosses to try on. It's actually a pretty good way to go about it.
Good stuff, I wonder if it's the same for Mortal Draw, since the cost also remains the same (3 emblems).
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,907
Some changes I noticed: Lazulite Flame Vent Living Force lasts 30 seconds, instead of the 10 seconds it did before. The fire buffs still last 10 seconds.

Lazulite Axe and Fire Axe now cost 2 emblems. Tested Lazulite Axe against Purple Monk and it did A FUCKTON of damage, so maybe the apparition boost was also increased?

Dragon Flash seems to be not just cheaper, but stronger, breaks Hanbei's posture in the first hit, I think it took both pre-patch.

All Spiritfall items had their cost reduced by 1 emblem, AND their utility buffed. Yashiriku Spiritfall with Monk Buff now lasts 60 seconds, SAME AS THE SUGAR. Too lazy to test the others, but it's probably across the board.

Damage NERF on running/dodging attack? At 31 Attack Points on NG++ one running attack and one charged attack would instantly kill the ranged dudes in the bridge from Old Grave to Sunken Valley, after the patch, with 32 Attack Points on NG++ the same two attacks are not enough, probably a substantial nerf, then. Two stabs are still enough, though, so they probably only nerfed the running attack. Three R1s still break their posture.

I imagine they also fixed the Butterfly exploit, then.

EDIT: Keep in mind this was all tested on NG++ without Kuro's Charm and with the Demon Bell on.
 
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Oct 27, 2017
484
Good stuff, I wonder if it's the same for Mortal Draw, since the cost also remains the same (3 emblems).
I didn't test that part for mortal draw. I think it at least does more damage.

Against purple ninja at least, ashina cross on block allows for enough time to flame vent (of the dozens of attempts, I was interrupted only once, so it's probably just me not hitting it as soon as possible), which is pretty big because you can safely force pretty good vitality damage if you have living force. Ashina cross > flame vent > Living force > 2-3 hits (doesn't need to actually hit) for burn > whatever you want to do (mash r1 or throw in something else, like swap to lazulite flame vent to damage and buff).
 
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Is the choice...
When you choose to stay loyal to Kuro? I guess it wouldn’t hurt to keep a save in case I decide to come back to it at a later point

How do I know when I’m getting close to that point?
You are correct. You'll be close to that moment

when you return to Ashina Castle after retrieving three items Kuru requested. You'll notice that the idols are greyed out. Before making your way to the rooftop to see him, make a backup.
 
Nov 1, 2017
1,488
in my PC save game folder there's 2 files- S0000.sl2 and S0000.sl2.bak...is the .bak file a backup in case the main one gets corrupted?...did they add that in with the new patch?...I didn't see the .bak file before in that folder
 
Oct 27, 2017
665
Some changes I noticed: Lazulite Flame Vent Living Force lasts 30 seconds, instead of the 10 seconds it did before. The fire buffs still last 10 seconds.

Lazulite Axe and Fire Axe now cost 2 emblems. Tested Lazulite Axe against Purple Monk and it did A FUCKTON of damage, so maybe the apparition boost was also increased?

Dragon Flash seems to be not just cheaper, but stronger, breaks Hanbei's posture in the first hit, I think it took both pre-patch.

All Spiritfall items had their cost reduced by 1 emblem, AND their utility buffed. Yashiriku Spiritfall with Monk Buff now lasts 60 seconds, SAME AS THE SUGAR. Too lazy to test the others, but it's probably across the board.

Damage NERF on running/dodging attack? At 31 Attack Points on NG++ one running attack and one charged attack would instantly kill the ranged dudes in the bridge from Old Grave to Sunken Valley, after the patch, with 32 Attack Points on NG++ the same two attacks are not enough, probably a substantial nerf, then. Two stabs are still enough, though, so they probably only nerfed the running attack. Three R1s still break their posture.

I imagine they also fixed the Butterfly exploit, then.

EDIT: Keep in mind this was all tested on NG++ without Kuro's Charm and with the Demon Bell on.
@[email protected] damn....

thanks for the testing..
 
Oct 27, 2017
484
o_O

Well then. Does it just give you the option when you start a new game and reach Kuro for the first time?
Yes, I've ran 2 NG charmless bell instances now.

Yeeeeeees floating passage is decent now.
Funny thing is floating is better than its more expensive counterpart because you get to the last hit faster. Speeding it up is the right choice, and it has its own small niche, but hopefully they explore more interesting mechanics with multi-hit in the future.
 
Apr 8, 2018
3,482
I feel like I started playing tonight on my NG+ file and my posture is getting absolutely fucking wrecked, even when I'm perfect parrying. I don't know what's going on. I haven't played for about a week, but it seems like I'm totally off.
 
Oct 27, 2017
692
I'm fucked?
My PS4 downloaded and installed the patch 1.03, but when I start the game I have a message saying "Save data it's from another version blablabla" and returns to the main menu. I can't start the game, WTF FROM!!
is there any way to comeback to the previous patch?
There's no way I will start the game again since I'm in the middle of NG+ with just a few trophies of the platinum....
 
Oct 30, 2017
6,186
I cheesed DoH with the cliff trick and I swear it's the most fun I've had in this game yet, apart from clowning several bosses after (Hirata boss) Lady Butterfly put me through the grinder early on. I laughed and laughed. And took a screenshot and video clip. And then laughed some more.

No, DoH, thank you.

Kinda bummed I missed out on the special dialogue though. (big boss/endgame/lore spoilers) I was positive I gave the sculptor all 4 sakes, and eavesdropped as much as I could. Maybe I missed some other trigger. If you don't know what I'm talking about: during the boss battle Sekiro can realize that the Demon of Hatred is the Sculptor. After the battle, the old lady where you first find Tengu confirms it. If you don't get the dialogue, she says perhaps it's better you didn't realize who DoH was. What nonsense, he was my one-armed monkey bro. :(

And now for my latest complaints:

- I'm sick and tired of how sluggish the combat feels when I'm trying my best to block and deflect, then I get forced into block stun, then my posture breaks and I'm flat on my ass, eating hit after hit. I'm working on the final boss here, and he's so fucking fast that he hits me between my hits, then locks me down with absurdly strong attacks of his own. And of course this asshole rushes you down when you attempt to take a three second long swig of your damned gourd. Why is my character the slowest ninja in history? This is a life and death situation, you moron. You're not sipping sake with Emma right now.

- The overused bosses are a little much. Was (1st Hirata boss) The Drunkard really such a compelling enemy design that he's worth fighting two more times if I want all the prayer beads? (Late game areas) Hirata 2, and the blue Ministry miniboss in Ashina Outskirts when everything's on fire. Come on.

- (Late game area/boss) The Sakura Bull of the Palace in Fountainhead was also bullshit. It was an easy kill because I got him to crash into the wall and stun himself, but still. The first version was dumpster fire boss design. I can't imagine anyone would relish the thought of repeating it.

- Why do I have to fight (mid/late game boss)Genichiro yet again, before the final final boss? Sit the hell down, chump. I already endured three phases of your crap at Ashina Castle. His new attacks are damned annoying too. I really enjoy losing half my health when I block, or taking the full attack in my face when I'm not quite close enough to jump off his head. The fight just feels like a gratuitous kick in the balls, a cheap shot designed to drain your gourds before you can get down to business.

- What's the point of collecting all 10 health/posture upgrades if a boss can take me out in two swipes no matter what? I went through hell to get all those beads. I'm missing the logic here.

I can't wait to finish this annoying game and get back to DMC5, where the characters damn well listen to my button inputs and don't lie on the ground at random or spend an entire afternoon in block stun before remembering they've got a fight to finish.

Slow ass game. I hate watching my dumb character get stuck in a year-long animation when I see an attack coming and I'm frantically trying to respond to it. Fucking move, you idiot. Not enjoyable at all.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
294
even the glock? (lol)
Especially the glock!
But seriously, at this rate I don’t think I’ll be able to finish the game. I don’t have the patience to run nor the skills to deflect his attacks.
Tried a lot of approaches but I keep getting my ass kicked.

I feel like the whole fight is a test of patience for me, making it a total snorefest.
 
Oct 28, 2017
10,591
I cheesed DoH with the cliff trick and I swear it's the most fun I've had in this game yet, apart from clowning several bosses after (Hirata boss) Lady Butterfly put me through the grinder early on. I laughed and laughed. And took a screenshot and video clip. And then laughed some more.

No DoH, thank you.

Kinda bummed I missed out on the special dialogue though. (big boss/endgame/lore spoilers) I was positive I gave the sculptor all 4 sakes, and eavesdropped as much as I could. Maybe I missed some other trigger. If you don't know what I'm talking about: during the boss battle Sekiro can realize that the Demon of Hatred is the Sculptor. After the battle, the old lady where you first find Tengu confirms it. If you don't get the dialogue, she says perhaps it's better you didn't realize who DoH was. What nonsense, he was my one-armed monkey bro. :(

And now for my latest complaints:

- I'm sick and tired of how sluggish the combat feels when I'm trying my best to block and deflect, then I get forced into block stun, then my posture breaks and I'm flat on my ass, eating hit after hit. I'm working on the final boss here, and he's so fucking fast that he hits me between my hits, then locks me down with absurdly strong attacks of his own. And of course this asshole rushes you down when you attempt to take a three second long swig of your damned gourd. Why is my character the slowest ninja in history? This is a life and death situation, you moron. You're not sipping sake with Emma right now.

- The overused bosses are a little much. Was (1st Hirata boss) The Drunkard really such a compelling enemy design that he's worth fighting two more times if I want all the prayer beads? (Late game areas) Hirata 2, and the blue Ministry miniboss in Ashina Outskirts when everything's on fire. Come on.

- (Late game area/boss) The Sakura Bull of the Palace in Fountainhead was also bullshit. It was an easy kill because I got him to crash into the wall and stun himself, but still. The first version was dumpster fire boss design. I can't imagine anyone would relish the thought of repeating it.

- Why do I have to fight (mid/late game boss)Genichiro yet again, before the final final boss? Sit the hell down, chump. I already endured three phases of your crap at Ashina Castle. His new attacks are damned annoying too. I really enjoy losing half my health when I block, or taking the full attack in my face when I'm not quite close enough to jump off his head. The fight just feels like a gratuitous kick in the balls, a cheap shot designed to drain your gourds before you can get down to business.

- What's the point of collecting all 10 health/posture upgrades if a boss can take me out in two swipes no matter what? I went through hell to get all those beads. I'm missing the logic here.

I can't wait to finish this annoying game and get back to DMC5, where the characters damn well listen to my button inputs and don't lie on the ground at random or spend an entire afternoon in block stun before remembering they've got a fight to finish.

Slow ass game. I hate watching my dumb character get stuck in a year-long animation when I see an attack coming and I'm frantically trying to respond to it. Fucking move, you idiot. Not enjoyable at all.
If youre getting your posture broken its entirely on you for not parrying correctly you know that right? Like that has nothing to do with slow movement.
 
Oct 30, 2017
6,186
If youre getting your posture broken its entirely on you for not parrying correctly you know that right? Like that has nothing to do with slow movement.
Let me refer you to one of my older complaints: parry timing is fucking wack. You can't reactively perfect parry, you have to memorize the enemy's whole move set and visually identify the very start of the animations. It's tedious.

The fact that I'm at the final boss, having killed every single miniboss and optional boss before him -- cheesing only two of them (Monk 2 and Demon of Hatred) -- should suggest I'm not some hopeless player. I've played a hell of a lot of action games, and sunk quite a few hours into Bloodborne, and I've never before encountered a game with Sekiro's frustrating mix of quirks.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,021
Let me refer you to one of my older complaints: parry timing is fucking wack. You can't reactively parry, you have to memorize the enemy's whole move set and visually identify the animations. It's tedious.
I do understand what you are saying here, to an extent. Could you name some games where it is not like this please? I feel like all action games require you to learn the move sets of enemies to punish them. Ninja gaiden etc.

On another note, I'm just up to the end to get the return ending on new game plus. Then i have another playthrough to do the "bad" ending.

I really think this is fast becoming one of my favourite games ever, and I have said that a few times in the last 18 months to two years. Gaming is just going from strength to strength. I love this game. Like others have said, including myself. It is my dream Ninja Scroll game.
 
Oct 28, 2017
10,591
Let me refer you to one of my older complaints: parry timing is fucking wack. You can't reactively perfect parry, you have to memorize the enemy's whole move set and visually identify the very start of the animations. It's tedious.

The fact that I'm at the final boss, having killed every single miniboss and optional boss before him -- cheesing only two of them -- should suggest I'm not some hopeless player. I've played a hell of a lot of action games, and sunk quite a few hours into Bloodborne, and I've never before encountered a game with Sekiro's frustrating mix of quirks.
Yes you generally have to get down knowing boss attacks in games like this. This is true for most games.
Isshin
is far harder than anything in the game before him tho. Significantly so.
 
Oct 25, 2017
294
Let me refer you to one of my older complaints: parry timing is fucking wack. You can't reactively perfect parry, you have to memorize the enemy's whole move set and visually identify the very start of the animations. It's tedious.

The fact that I'm at the final boss, having killed every single miniboss and optional boss before him -- cheesing only two of them (Monk 2 and Demon of Hatred) -- should suggest I'm not some hopeless player. I've played a hell of a lot of action games, and sunk quite a few hours into Bloodborne, and I've never before encountered a game with Sekiro's frustrating mix of quirks.
Are you me? I’m having the same problems. Final boss is frustrating as fuck.
 
Oct 28, 2017
10,591
I feel like I started playing tonight on my NG+ file and my posture is getting absolutely fucking wrecked, even when I'm perfect parrying. I don't know what's going on. I haven't played for about a week, but it seems like I'm totally off.
Posture builds even if you perfect parry. It just can't break your posture if youre perfect parrying. Just didn't want you thinking it was you that was messing up haha.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,120
I got this at the weekend, and wow, it's really good. This is the first From game I'm playing, so I have no previous experience with this sort of game (even though I understand it's quite different).

I spent a lot of time dying on the mini-boss in Ashina Outskirts, until I figured out you needed to break his posture instead of whittle down his health. Then I went through some of Hirata Estate, up until the Shinobi Hunter. I'm struggling with the shield guards before that section, so I've gone back to the other path for now.

It's way more open to exploration than I expected. Grappling and stealthing around enemies is really fun. I don't know if it's the right way to play, but I've been trying to get a stealth kill on basically every enemy.
 
Oct 30, 2017
6,186
I do understand what you are saying here, to an extent. Could you name some games where it is not like this please? I feel like all action games require you to learn the move sets of enemies to punish them. Ninja gaiden etc.

On another note, I'm just up to the end to get the return ending on new game plus. Then i have another playthrough to do the "bad" ending.

I really think this is fast becoming one of my favourite games ever, and I have said that a few times in the last 18 months to two years. Gaming is just going from strength to strength. I love this game. Like others have said, including myself. It is my dream Ninja Scroll game.
Sure. In Metal Gear Rising there's enough leeway with your parry timing that you can get away with not fully memorizing enemy patterns. At the same time, Raiden doesn't get locked down by enemy attacks the way Sekiro does, and he can cancel most of his own animations about as quickly as you'd expect.

In Devil May Cry 3/4/5 (not the same type of action game as Sekiro, I know), your jump is the most effective dodge because it's instant and cancels almost anything, and the startup has i-frames. This allows you to react instinctively when an attack is coming your way. Sure, Royal Guard demands stricter timings, but the fact that almost anything can be canceled into a safe movement, and you can jump-guard or jump-release to minimize your vulnerability, means that using RG's abilities is perfectly realistic even if you're not an action god who can no-hit the final boss.

In the modern Ninja Gaiden series, you can dodge-roll through almost anything and make use of Ryu's fully invincible animations. Throws, Ultimate Techniques, etc. He's also relatively safe when he's high up in the air, which makes his signature air throw, Izuna Drop, a safe bet for crowd control. An especially effective trick is to kill a couple enemies to drop some orbs, then roll-jump into a landing Ultimate Technique, which instantly pulls the orbs to you and initiates a full UT. Sure, parrying and countering in Ninja Gaiden Black requires great timing, but you have lots of other options that don't force you to rely on memorization and tedious repetition.

I could mention other games. PS2 Shinobi, where Hotsuma has his stealth dash, Dragon's Dogma, which has enormous combat variety that includes timing-based defense for some classes... even the new God of War, where Kratos can dodge through stuff, reflect projectiles, and parry + counter.

None of these games are as demanding as Sekiro in quite the same way that Sekiro demands. There's always an alternative to understanding the full capabilities of each enemy at any given moment, and there are options for the player who prefers to react on instinct.

Sure, Sekiro allows me to play hit and run, and jump dodge most things. Yes, I can use Aged Feather Mist Raven until my spirit emblems run out. But if I'm going to get up in the enemy's face and play the parry/counter game, which is clearly the way the game was designed to be played, then I've got to do a lot of work to get consistent results, because enemies are so damaging, blocking inflicts so much block stun and posture damage, you're so vulnerable when you're on the ground, your attacks feel so unbelievably slow, it's damned tricky to break away and heal before you know exactly what to expect...

It's like the whole game was engineered to brutally crush the player who dares apply the reactions and intuition they developed in other challenging action games. The stuff you expect to work simply does not work. You attack far slower than your movement suggests, parry inputs are placed absurdly early in each attack's windup, your dodge has pathetic i-frames, you recover about as slowly as a crippled elephant, and half the stuff you'd expect to be able to cancel with something -- anything! -- is a fully locked animation.

It's just weird to me, an experienced action game player, that Sekiro is so resistant to the skills and approaches that seem to work in everything that's not Sekiro.

Posture builds even if you perfect parry. It just can't break your posture if youre perfect parrying. Just didn't want you thinking it was you that was messing up haha.
I'm not sure I knew this. Thanks.

Yes you generally have to get down knowing boss attacks in games like this. This is true for most games.
Isshin
is far harder than anything in the game before him tho. Significantly so.
I thought (late boss) Owl 2 was as hard as it was going to get. And he wasn't that bad because his pattern was clear and he had distinct windows of vulnerability. (Final boss) But with Isshin, not only does he have three phases, but I have to make Genichiro buzz off beforehand. So that's a full four phases, back to back, where two big mistakes will get me killed, and the block stun, enemy attack speed, and posture damage are unreal.

I have problems with this game's design. It's not like Bloodborne, where I can recommend the game without reservation, regardless of its difficulty. Sekiro is exclusive in the worst possible sense. It entices players with options and the appearance of fast paced combat, but renders most of those options useless to non-experts and mercilessly denies them a reasonable margin for error. There is no trial and error. It's trial, error, complete annihilation and a demoralizing ordeal just to reach the thing that got you killed before, and repeat. It's a fucked up cycle.

Are you me? I’m having the same problems. Final boss is frustrating as fuck.
At least twice as long as it should be, to boot.
 
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Oct 26, 2017
1,286
There's a reason for this, you'll figure it out soon.
if what you mean is the 2nd owl fight in hirata estate i found that pretty easy too...just beat him. the hardest bosses in the game for me were the miniboss ninja in the reservoir (did not know that you could backstab him from above until after i already killed him) and the guardian ape. i died so many times on the ape that once i got to the 2nd fight with the ape and his brown friend it was basically muscle memory
 
Oct 25, 2017
294
What a boring fight. Spent my whole evening session trying to beat this fucker, but I'm still stuck.
Got him down to the last phase but ran out of healing items. Oh well, at this point I'm having more trouble with his first real phase than the rest. I need some rest, my reflexes aren't working properly anymore.
 

iRAWRasaurus

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,552
About to enter the end game, just wondering if I could
still upgrade my prosthetic after the Sculptor turns into the Demon of Hatred. Right before fighting the dragon but I was wondering if I should farm and upgrade the prosthetic tool first.
 
Oct 27, 2017
731
Is it me or is the game a tad easier at first than Bloodborne (the only FROM I beat, DLC and all) ? I feel like the parrying and counter timing window is really forgiving.

Either way the game is really cool and I love how they upped the verticality
 
Oct 28, 2017
777
- I'm sick and tired of how sluggish the combat feels when I'm trying my best to block and deflect, then I get forced into block stun, then my posture breaks and I'm flat on my ass, eating hit after hit. I'm working on the final boss here, and he's so fucking fast that he hits me between my hits, then locks me down with absurdly strong attacks of his own. And of course this asshole rushes you down when you attempt to take a three second long swig of your damned gourd. Why is my character the slowest ninja in history? This is a life and death situation, you moron. You're not sipping sake with Emma right now.
That "stun lock" got me a lot, too. I needed some time to realize what was even happening. First, I always thought my posture was broken but then I paid close attention and realized that enemies can simply put you in a stun lock when you get hit (it's always when Sekiro raises is prostetic left hand). Then you are at least one second completely non-mobile and have to eat more hits.

At first I always tried to roll out of it to cancel because the game teaches you about that in the tutorials but that actually seems only for when your posture is broken. When you are stun locked you are just stunned and have to wait. Not knowing this I often tried to roll out of it and then of course it came out after it where it messed me up even more.

Frustrating as hell.

Especially the final boss Isshin. Like you deflect his combo, you try to attack, but he does another sword swing which is two times quicker than your own attack and he gets you, puts you in stun lock etc.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
3,102
I can't wait to finish this annoying game and get back to DMC5, where the characters damn well listen to my button inputs and don't lie on the ground at random or spend an entire afternoon in block stun before remembering they've got a fight to finish.

Slow ass game. I hate watching my dumb character get stuck in a year-long animation when I see an attack coming and I'm frantically trying to respond to it. Fucking move, you idiot. Not enjoyable at all.
This is a good bookend to your constant complain fest. Have fun playing DMC 5 ;)
 
Oct 25, 2017
709
Is it me or is the game a tad easier at first than Bloodborne (the only FROM I beat, DLC and all) ? I feel like the parrying and counter timing window is really forgiving.

Either way the game is really cool and I love how they upped the verticality
Yes, it's easier in the beginning, but it gets a lot more difficult mid-game onwards. I found Bloodborne to be pretty difficult in the beginning and then steamrolled most bosses mid-game onwards. With Sekiro, I fucked up all the bosses till I reached the top of the Ashina Castle and then it started getting difficult and the difficulty just kept ramping up from there, though there were occasional dips in difficulty with some of the filler mini-bosses and gimmick bosses.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,788
Yeah reactive parrying is kinda broken at least on consoles. The tooltip says press block just right before the attack is suppose to land, but good luck with that with latency and animation priority lol.
 
I can't wait to finish this annoying game and get back to DMC5, where the characters damn well listen to my button inputs and don't lie on the ground at random or spend an entire afternoon in block stun before remembering they've got a fight to finish.

Slow ass game. I hate watching my dumb character get stuck in a year-long animation when I see an attack coming and I'm frantically trying to respond to it. Fucking move, you idiot. Not enjoyable at all.
I can't say that I understand what you're describing here exactly. If you happen to have a video or something we could get a better idea of what you're referring to.

The game is actually more forgiving than Souls in a lot of ways; e.g. you can spam R1/L1 without being punished as much as before, and you can still deflect even if you incorrectly decided to go for an attack.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,784
I feel like some stuff definitely can't be parried on reaction, but the parry window is forgiving to make up for it, especially if you make an effort to not mash block. Mashing apparently shrinks your parry window, so it's generally better to block a little early instead of mashing l1.

I think Mikiri Counter works the same way? There have been times when I pressed dodge early, started the dash animation and then my character suddenly pulls off the mikiri counter mid-dash, with the same button press.