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Cat Party

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,392
Spear phase? You can bait his thrust if you stay just outside his reach (not far enough for him to start shooting at you). It's super easy to Mikiri and puts you in a good position to land a couple of hits in.

Also when he does his jumping overhead slam it's better to deflect it, as it deals some pretty good posture damage. He'll always jump back with a swipe of his spear if you stay close to him for too long, but you can easily deflect it or dash forward for more free damage.

If it's any consolation, the final phase is much easier.
The technique I'm trying has you bait him into his gun attacks, and then you use the loaded umbrella to absorb them and hit him with projected force. It works really well but I have to learn his moves better. I just having to spend 10 minutes on the first two phases every time to get to that point.
 

Chopchop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,171
The technique I'm trying has you bait him into his gun attacks, and then you use the loaded umbrella to absorb them and hit him with projected force. It works really well but I have to learn his moves better. I just having to spend 10 minutes on the first two phases every time to get to that point.
I made an effort to be extra aggressive during the first phase to learn how to get through it faster. If I died, then restarting is easy. If I got through, then I get some practice passing that phase fast.
 

Jimnymebob

Member
Oct 26, 2017
19,559
I'm at presumably the last boss of the bad
ending on NG+ without the charm, and I'm having a rough as hell time lol.

I can double Ichimonji Emma to death relatively consistently, so she's not a problem, even if she's a lot more awkward than the standard final boss's first phase. Isshin on the other hand is an asshole, and I'm just getting bopped by him. It's mostly chip damage that is screwing me, and I need to figure out a safe time to heal.
 

Solus

Member
Oct 26, 2017
304
Weird question: From Software announcing a new game and no DLC for Sekiro means I can finally buy Sekiro right? I waited before jumping into each Dark Souls game until all DLC was released. Which I was happy to do because it featured some of the best content for those games and I liked being able to jump right into it. And I really want to play Sekiro.
 

Noema

Member
Jan 17, 2018
4,904
Mexico CIty
Weird question: From Software announcing a new game and no DLC for Sekiro means I can finally buy Sekiro right? I waited before jumping into each Dark Souls game until all DLC was released. Which I was happy to do because it featured some of the best content for those games and I liked being able to jump right into it. And I really want to play Sekiro.

If Sekiro is gonna have any DLC they'll announce it in August most likely.

It wouldn't be the first time they announce their new game before announcing DLC for their previous game (Dark Souls 3 was revealed many months before The Old Hunters for BB was announced).
 

Solus

Member
Oct 26, 2017
304
I see, unfortunately I could no longer resist and I bought it anyway. Thanks for the reply though!
 

Animus Vox

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,496
NYC
The technique I'm trying has you bait him into his gun attacks, and then you use the loaded umbrella to absorb them and hit him with projected force. It works really well but I have to learn his moves better. I just having to spend 10 minutes on the first two phases every time to get to that point.
Was finally able to beat him myself. His second phase ended up being easier to learn than his first after I realized that he blocks far less and attacks through your own. Despite moving around a lot I took this phase a lot more conservatively, swiping a few times after his jump attacks and Mikiri'ing his thrust attacks.
 

wandering

flâneur
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
2,136
I hate how DoH is basically just a Soulsborne boss, completely at odds with the play style of the rest of the game.
 

MilkBeard

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,778
I hate how DoH is basically just a Soulsborne boss, completely at odds with the play style of the rest of the game.
This isn't really true, imo. DoH utilizes many of Sekiro's unique combat opportunities. you can parry many of his moves, grapple, use the fan, etc. It just "seems" like a Soulsborne boss because it's a big demon.
 

Noema

Member
Jan 17, 2018
4,904
Mexico CIty
I'm at presumably the last boss of the bad
ending on NG+ without the charm, and I'm having a rough as hell time lol.

I can double Ichimonji Emma to death relatively consistently, so she's not a problem, even if she's a lot more awkward than the standard final boss's first phase. Isshin on the other hand is an asshole, and I'm just getting bopped by him. It's mostly chip damage that is screwing me, and I need to figure out a safe time to heal.

That fight is no joke without a charm. It probably took me 60 tries on NG+3 Charmless.
For the first Isshin phase, walk up to him and attack. Most likely, he'll dodge, and counter attack. Deflect that attack and hit him again. He'll deflect this time and immediately do a two-hit combo (which will turn into a 3-hit if you don't deflect the first two hits) that is very fast, but easy to deflect. You can enter into a loop in which you attack him after deflecting both hits and he'll do it again. If you are using Sugar you'll be able to break his posture super fast. You shouldn't be getting chipped at all. If that's happening, your deflects are not that tight.

He'll also either push you away, sheathe his sword and do a perilous attack sweep (easy to punish); push you away and do a perilous attack thrust (easy to mikiri) or jump back and do Ashina Cross (can be dodged or deflected if you are feeling bold). He'll also randomly do Ichimonjis, which you can easily deflect and then punish for extra damage.

In the second phase, keep in mind that the Ichimonji will be replaced by the fire version, which cannot be deflected, but can easily be avoided. Just circle around him while he's charging it and hit him from behind.

If he stomps with his right foot, he'll do a fire slash. If he stomps with his left foot, he'll do a fire sweep. The rest of his moves remain the same. Firecrackers are useful to get extra damage in and to close the distance, which is good since a lot of his moves require you to be away from him.
 

Jimnymebob

Member
Oct 26, 2017
19,559
That fight is no joke without a charm. It probably took me 60 tries on NG+3 Charmless.
For the first Isshin phase, walk up to him and attack. Most likely, he'll dodge, and counter attack. Deflect that attack and hit him again. He'll deflect this time and immediately do a two-hit combo (which will turn into a 3-hit if you don't deflect the first two hits) that is very fast, but easy to deflect. You can enter into a loop in which you attack him after deflecting both hits and he'll do it again. If you are using Sugar you'll be able to break his posture super fast. You shouldn't be getting chipped at all. If that's happening, your deflects are not that tight.

He'll also either push you away, sheathe his sword and do a perilous attack sweep (easy to punish); push you away and do a perilous attack thrust (easy to mikiri) or jump back and do Ashina Cross (can be dodged or deflected if you are feeling bold). He'll also randomly do Ichimonjis, which you can easily deflect and then punish for extra damage.

In the second phase, keep in mind that the Ichimonji will be replaced by the fire version, which cannot be deflected, but can easily be avoided. Just circle around him while he's charging it and hit him from behind.

If he stomps with his right foot, he'll do a fire slash. If he stomps with his left foot, he'll do a fire sweep. The rest of his moves remain the same. Firecrackers are useful to get extra damage in and to close the distance, which is good since a lot of his moves require you to be away from him.

Thanks for that!
I think my problem is that it seems similar to
ISS first phase, before he gets the spear and becomes 100 times easier.
I just struggle so much to perfect deflect his attacks consistently, and it's specifically him who I have trouble with.
 

Noema

Member
Jan 17, 2018
4,904
Mexico CIty
His attacks are fast, but very predictable
. If he dodges, he'll always counter attack. If he blocks or deflects, he'll do the 3-hit combo. In fact both SSI and IA will the same 3-hit combo, though SSI will always do the 3 hits, whereas IA will only do two hits if you deflect properly. It's just practice. Once you learn how to deflect that properly there's really not much he can do to you. You want to get into a rythm that will fill up his posture super fast.

It should look like this:

giphy.gif
 
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wandering

flâneur
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
2,136
This isn't really true, imo. DoH utilizes many of Sekiro's unique combat opportunities. you can parry many of his moves, grapple, use the fan, etc. It just "seems" like a Soulsborne boss because it's a big demon.

In my experience, most of his attacks did vitality damage even when deflected, so it became a game of running around his feet while whacking him a couple of times whenever there was an opening. He has three health bars and his posture can't be broken, so it's just an endurance test of dodging his attacks and whittling down his health.
 

MilkBeard

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,778
In my experience, most of his attacks did vitality damage even when deflected, so it became a game of running around his feet while whacking him a couple of times whenever there was an opening. He has three health bars and his posture can't be broken, so it's just an endurance test of dodging his attacks and whittling down his health.
He does fire damage with his whip arm, but that was introduced with the bull already, another non-human boss. You can fix that with the gourd or items. Also, he gets stunned after a certain number of hits if your attack is damaging enough. He's definitely more of a vitality boss, yeah, but the game has already had a few of those. He also has wild movements and is large, but that type was introduced previously with the Guardian Ape.

He is an optional boss, so yeah, he's gonna be a bit hard, but he's built within the confines of Sekiro's systems and allows you to utilize a number of techniques to beat him.
 

Oghuz

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,897
I'm fighting Isshin Ashina on NG+ and he is kicking my ass. Anyway, what really annoys me is the boss run towards him. I'm tired of constantly having to go up the tower. My L2 finger is legit hurting lol. Is the Ashina Castle idol really the closest to this boss?
 

Noema

Member
Jan 17, 2018
4,904
Mexico CIty

Tuck

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,576
I'm frustrated.

I dont think I understand this games combat system, cause I'm making no progress. I keep hitting walls at literally every mini boss. It doesnt help that every one of them is surrounded by half a dozen enemies that makes retrying things extremely tedious.

I was looking forward to this game, but honestly, I'm pretty close to quiting. It just hasn't clicked. =/

Anyone have tips for someone struggling?
 

duxstar

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,223
As someone who has platinumed Every Souls game from Demon's Souls into Bloodborne, what the fuck am i doing wrong in this game, it feels like every area I'm extremely under leveled for the area I'm in. I'm in Ashina castle and have all 5 of the teleports unlocked and no matter which one i go to I get owned by the NORMAL enemies there...... whether its the damn grey ninja's on top of ashina roofs, to the blue samauri inside the castle, to the giant ass dude with clubs by the resevoir, and each of the mini bosses destroys me in like 2 hits

My vitality is 11, and Attack Power is 2, I'm getting one shotted by everything, and the blue samauri up in ashina's castle literally destroy me, i parry them and their posture never breaks, I don't even know how I made it this far.
 

wandering

flâneur
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
2,136
He does fire damage with his whip arm, but that was introduced with the bull already, another non-human boss. You can fix that with the gourd or items. Also, he gets stunned after a certain number of hits if your attack is damaging enough. He's definitely more of a vitality boss, yeah, but the game has already had a few of those. He also has wild movements and is large, but that type was introduced previously with the Guardian Ape.

He is an optional boss, so yeah, he's gonna be a bit hard, but he's built within the confines of Sekiro's systems and allows you to utilize a number of techniques to beat him.

The bull is simply another example of a boss that's out of place with Sekiro's play style. The Guardian Ape is an entirely different fight that rewards you for being aggressive. The Demon of Hatred isn't even that difficult, it's just tedious.
 

catashtrophe

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,111
UK
Got to the last phase of the last boss twice last night but by the time i get to the last phase, his 3rd phase has taken almost all my health from me so i get wrecked.

:-(
 

MilkBeard

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,778
The bull is simply another example of a boss that's out of place with Sekiro's play style. The Guardian Ape is an entirely different fight that rewards you for being aggressive. The Demon of Hatred isn't even that difficult, it's just tedious.
I don't agree. If the bull was alone, it might be, but the fact that you have all of these non-human fights and how they introduce and evolve your playstyle against them is quite fitting for the game, imo. Moreso that DoH is an optional boss, it doesn't need to adhere as much to the core systems as, say Genichiro or Guardian Ape would. Sure, they could have made the fight shorter, but that's another debate entirely. You're saying it's "out of place" when it's not really, considering you can fight both the bulls and the guardian ape fights before this, and Demon of Hatred uses some of the same characteristics of those fights while building upon them in a unique way.

If there were no other non-human bosses in the game and DoH came out of the blue, I might see this point of view, but with the way the bosses are designed that I mentioned earlier, no, I simply don't agree.

Edit: This isn't even taking into consideration the lore and story connections the boss has. The game has been building up for the reveal of this boss since the beginning of the game, and has hinted and teased it throughout. It is a well thought-out addition to the game, and ties directly to the themes and story in Sekiro. It's probably not what you meant, but these comments make it seem like they just lifted a boss from Souls or Bloodborne and dropped it in. But it's simply not true; it's tuned to Sekiro's combat and mechanics, fits as an extension of other non-human fights in the game, and ties heavily with the story, lore, and themes of the game.
 
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catashtrophe

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,111
UK
Is the Empowered Mortal Draw useful against the last boss at all?

I've got 4 skill points so might grind to hit 5 and get it to see if it helps at all against him
 
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catashtrophe

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,111
UK
To get passed the snake

Run through the cave on the left and you'll see a lone monkey. Using the puppeteer Ninjitsu stealth kill and puppeteer him and he will distract the snake and you run straight into the building ahead
 

catashtrophe

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,111
UK
HOLY SHIT i finally beat the fucker

Did it on my first attempt with the Empowered Mortal Draw (EMD) Skill (which I just got). Completed phase 1 and 2 with no hits in phase 3 when ever he did his lunge jump then rush move i gave him a single EMD and just ran around him to get him to do it again then rinse and repeat.

I was a mess in phase 4 and used up everything i had and just got lucky.

What a damn battle i'm exhausted
 
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SantaC

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,763
To get passed the snake

Run through the cave on the left and you'll see a lone monkey. Using the puppeteer Ninjitsu stealth kill and puppeteer him and he will distract the snake and you run straight into the building ahead
thanks. skills are insanely expensive now. like 8K each. How do I get more skill points easier?
 

Tuck

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,576
As someone who has platinumed Every Souls game from Demon's Souls into Bloodborne, what the fuck am i doing wrong in this game, it feels like every area I'm extremely under leveled for the area I'm in. I'm in Ashina castle and have all 5 of the teleports unlocked and no matter which one i go to I get owned by the NORMAL enemies there...... whether its the damn grey ninja's on top of ashina roofs, to the blue samauri inside the castle, to the giant ass dude with clubs by the resevoir, and each of the mini bosses destroys me in like 2 hits

My vitality is 11, and Attack Power is 2, I'm getting one shotted by everything, and the blue samauri up in ashina's castle literally destroy me, i parry them and their posture never breaks, I don't even know how I made it this far.
Yeah we're in the same position. Those blue fuckers in the castle are brutal.
 

SantaC

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,763
As someone who has platinumed Every Souls game from Demon's Souls into Bloodborne, what the fuck am i doing wrong in this game, it feels like every area I'm extremely under leveled for the area I'm in. I'm in Ashina castle and have all 5 of the teleports unlocked and no matter which one i go to I get owned by the NORMAL enemies there...... whether its the damn grey ninja's on top of ashina roofs, to the blue samauri inside the castle, to the giant ass dude with clubs by the resevoir, and each of the mini bosses destroys me in like 2 hits

My vitality is 11, and Attack Power is 2, I'm getting one shotted by everything, and the blue samauri up in ashina's castle literally destroy me, i parry them and their posture never breaks, I don't even know how I made it this far.
Blue robe enemy gets his posture breaken after two mikiri counters.

You cant play this as a soulsgame, your weapon attack is too weak for that. Here is a protip though. Invest in firecrackers, works on almost every boss and enemy.

You get 2-3 free hits for every firecracker thrown. (It is like a flashgrenade)
 

BlueStarEXSF

Member
Dec 3, 2018
4,499
So I finally finished the game and got one of the endings:

I got the ending where Kuro dies and Sekiro lives.

This was a damn good game. It's not on the level of Bloodborne but it's still really good. It has its moments of bullshit tho.

I was so close to getting the true ending. Man, if only I hadn't beaten the Divine Dragon first... I had all the other requirements and I got up to the part where I got the Rice for Kuro. Ah well, I guess there's only so much someone can do without a guide on their first playthrough.

I feel like most of the game wasn't too hard once you got the hang of it. However, I spent like 2 hours on the final boss and I felt like I was the one being the bad player and not the boss being tough ? I have to say that his second phase was fucking bullshit IMO. Too many fakeouts and unnatural feints.

Overall, the game satisfied me and I'll give it another playthrough one of these days... time to move on to Ace Combat 7 and hop back on the Elden Ring hype train :D !
 

deepFlaw

Knights of Favonius World Tour '21
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,488
To get passed the snake

Run through the cave on the left and you'll see a lone monkey. Using the puppeteer Ninjitsu stealth kill and puppeteer him and he will distract the snake and you run straight into the building ahead

Or you can do what I did, which is waste an hour thinking I was just jumping wrong or missing a grapple point or should try to make the monkey make noises to attract attention or something, dying and racing through that area repeatedly. And then right when I was about to quit, I decided to try using mist raven to just teleport through it.

...it worked

(I'd done everything I could before the boss that unlocks that area, so I'd completely forgotten to go back to the area that gives you puppeteer, and the game weirdly does not make a point of telling you to go deal with that.)
 

BlueStarEXSF

Member
Dec 3, 2018
4,499
Or you can do what I did, which is waste an hour thinking I was just jumping wrong or missing a grapple point or should try to make the monkey make noises to attract attention or something, dying and racing through that area repeatedly. And then right when I was about to quit, I decided to try using mist raven to just teleport through it.

...it worked

(I'd done everything I could before the boss that unlocks that area, so I'd completely forgotten to go back to the area that gives you puppeteer, and the game weirdly does not make a point of telling you to go deal with that.)

I also used mist raven to teleport through it :D
 

MASTER MENACE

Member
Oct 25, 2017
110
In A State Of Trance
I can't beat the first purple ninja in Hirata estae (interior ministry ninja?)...i've tried everything (mikiri counters, firecrackers...etc) and died like 50+ times...this is getting ridiculous..everything he does is friggen random and he can kill you so fast
 

Cat Party

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,392
I can't beat the first purple ninja in Hirata estae (interior ministry ninja?)...i've tried everything (mikiri counters, firecrackers...etc) and died like 50+ times...this is getting ridiculous..everything he does is friggen random and he can kill you so fast
I ran around and eventually he lost track of me. I hid behind the pagoda and then stealth killed him, lol. Absolute cheese.
 

Alpende

Member
Oct 26, 2017
953
I just defeated Lady Butterfly (took me about 5 tries) and I'm wondering where I'm supposed to go now? I discovered pretty much of Mt. Kongo and other side locations. Do I go back to Ashina Castle because someone said he's still locked up there somewhere.

That miniboss at Ashina Reservoir is hard as shit too. Gonna try him next for the sixtieth time.
 

SantaC

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,763
I just defeated Lady Butterfly (took me about 5 tries) and I'm wondering where I'm supposed to go now? I discovered pretty much of Mt. Kongo and other side locations. Do I go back to Ashina Castle because someone said he's still locked up there somewhere.

That miniboss at Ashina Reservoir is hard as shit too. Gonna try him next for the sixtieth time.
yes ashina castle
 

Red Liquorice

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,063
UK
I just defeated Lady Butterfly (took me about 5 tries) and I'm wondering where I'm supposed to go now? I discovered pretty much of Mt. Kongo and other side locations. Do I go back to Ashina Castle because someone said he's still locked up there somewhere.

That miniboss at Ashina Reservoir is hard as shit too. Gonna try him next for the sixtieth time.
The boss atop Ashina Castle pushes the main story forward yeah. The other paths (like Mt. Kongo) do continue but are blocked at a point until you go back and defeat that boss in the Castle.
 

catpurrcat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,789
I just defeated Lady Butterfly (took me about 5 tries) and I'm wondering where I'm supposed to go now? I discovered pretty much of Mt. Kongo and other side locations. Do I go back to Ashina Castle because someone said he's still locked up there somewhere.

That miniboss at Ashina Reservoir is hard as shit too. Gonna try him next for the sixtieth time.

Can you recommend a technique to beat lady butterfly? I've looked at the top YouTube videos but for some reason my boss doesn't react that way (the close step dodge then hit doesn't work because she block or runs and slices me).
 
Dec 1, 2017
325
Can you recommend a technique to beat lady butterfly? I've looked at the top YouTube videos but for some reason my boss doesn't react that way (the close step dodge then hit doesn't work because she block or runs and slices me).
If she isn't starting a sweep attack or in the air (which is when you throw a shuriken), you attack and attack her until she deflects you, which means she'll attack you, so you deflect. If she steps away, you chase her and dodge her shuriken/deflect them. From the air she can do a grab so you can dodge just as she lands.

If she's one shotting you or you feel like it takes forever to get a deathblow, maybe try upping your vitality or attack power (explore Ashina Outskirts).
 

SantaC

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,763
I am at last boss now. I have about 12 hours to beat it until bloodstained releases. Perfect timing.

Last boss i hard though.