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Sekiro: Shadows Die Twice |OT2| Domo Arigato, Mr. ROBERTOOOOO!!!

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Alpende

Alpende

Member
Oct 26, 2017
953
catpurrcat said:
Can you recommend a technique to beat lady butterfly? I've looked at the top YouTube videos but for some reason my boss doesn't react that way (the close step dodge then hit doesn't work because she block or runs and slices me).
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I didn't watch any videos prior to fighting her. I was pretty defensive throughout, usually hitting her once or twice when she missed one of her attacks. If she misses she's vulnerable so that's your chance to do some damage. When she's in her second phase and starts the illusions, I just ran around (not fighting her at all) until they went away. When they turn into butterflies I used the umbrella prosthetic to defend myself. After that, I did the same thing as in phase 1. Stayed defensive and only hit her when she missed an attack.

I did have like 7 Gourd Seeds at my disposal and had quite a bit of health because I explored a lot of side locations before fighting her.
 
catpurrcat

catpurrcat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,789
^Thanks Alpende hanmik FaulPern will try all of those! My vitality is still low, as I haven't even beaten chained ogre yet, I was doing so well in ashina estate I kept moving forward until butterfly stopped me :(

Will try your advice, thanks all!
 
Jellycrackers

Jellycrackers

Member
Oct 25, 2017
582
catpurrcat said:
^Thanks Alpende hanmik FaulPern will try all of those! My vitality is still low, as I haven't even beaten chained ogre yet, I was doing so well in ashina estate I kept moving forward until butterfly stopped me :(

Will try your advice, thanks all!
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I don't know if anyone else covered this, but the shuriken prosthetic is the best for her! Hitting her while she flies around in the air does good damage and knocks her down, leaving her vulnerable for more hits.

I'd also recommend beating the Chained Ogre (easy if you stealth kill one of his pips then burn him with the flame vent prosthetic you should have found in Hirata Estate) then continue to beat the Ashina Outskirts main boss (Gyoubu) for his attack power bonus before taking Butterfly. I feel like she is a harder boss than Gyoubu. Hopefully by then you'll have more prayer beads for health and posture too!
 
AndrewGPK

AndrewGPK

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,822
Tuck said:
I'm frustrated.

I dont think I understand this games combat system, cause I'm making no progress. I keep hitting walls at literally every mini boss. It doesnt help that every one of them is surrounded by half a dozen enemies that makes retrying things extremely tedious.

I was looking forward to this game, but honestly, I'm pretty close to quiting. It just hasn't clicked. =/

Anyone have tips for someone struggling?
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Where are you at? I think perhaps the biggest choke point early in the game for most players is when they reach - often concurrently - Ashina castle and the last part of Hirata estate. The Ashina Castle boss is the hardest early boss IMO and you might find yourself stuck on 3-4 minibosses in these locations: Drunkard, Seven Spears, that quick draw guy in the castle, and the first lone shadow, and also the Hirata boss.

That's my guess based on what you are describing. There are strategies for each of these minibosses and the hirata estate boss and ashina castle boss; and I do feel like the game opens up a bit after you get through this part. Some of these bosses are designed to really teach you how to play
 
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wandering

wandering

flâneur
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
2,136
Phew, just beat ISS. I spent a good couple of hours throwing myself at him the first time, making slow but steady progress, then took a few days off to focus on other things, came back today and beat him after three tries. It was amazing how intuitive it felt this time around; the attacks that had terrorized me previously now seemed to be clearly readable. One of my favorite fights of all time.

Now on to get the rest of the endings!

And also grind out those last few skills...
 
Solus

Solus

Member
Oct 26, 2017
304
Damn this game is kicking my ass. As someone who went through all the Dark Souls games with a katana and played through Metal Gear Rising on hard I wasn't expecting to be stuck this early. I only barely got through that first red eyed ogre.

I'm currently stuck between 3 bosses: The dude on the horse shortly after the sequence with the snake, the big drunkard in the the past with the ally npc and the samurai general Tenzen right before the snake sequence. I've been focusing on the last one mainly but I just can't seem to do it. I'm assuming he drops a 4th prayer bead so I can upgrade my health which might help me deal with the other two. I just can't seem to parry/deflect consistently and there seems no way to practice it properly either. And he hits for like 50% in a single hit which just hurts, it's like you can't make a single mistake.

I think I exhausted all other directions so far as well. I found the bell past the headless dude, but I don't think I wanna ring that or deal with hem yet haha.

So anyone got any tips? Did I miss something important and how do I get better at deflecting? :p

edit: well I got him, on to the next
 
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AndrewGPK

AndrewGPK

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,822
Solus said:
Damn this game is kicking my ass. As someone who went through all the Dark Souls games with a katana and played through Metal Gear Rising on hard I wasn't expecting to be stuck this early. I only barely got through that first red eyed ogre.

I'm currently stuck between 3 bosses: The dude on the horse shortly after the sequence with the snake, the big drunkard in the the past with the ally npc and the samurai general Tenzen right before the snake sequence. I've been focusing on the last one mainly but I just can't seem to do it. I'm assuming he drops a 4th prayer bead so I can upgrade my health which might help me deal with the other two. I just can't seem to parry/deflect consistently and there seems no way to practice it properly either. And he hits for like 50% in a single hit which just hurts, it's like you can't make a single mistake.

I think I exhausted all other directions so far as well. I found the bell past the headless dude, but I don't think I wanna ring that or deal with hem yet haha.

So anyone got any tips? Did I miss something important and how do I get better at deflecting? :p

edit: well I got him, on to the next
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The guy with the horse is the first true boss and really is not that bad. All his attacks can be parried and build posture damage on him. He is also open to damage from grappling, and susceptible to firecrackers. Invest in firecrackers if you have not already. Helpful for all the bosses you mentioned.

On the general, clear the area and then get an initial deathblow on him. Firecrackers are then useful. Do you have mikiri counter yet? IIRC he's about reading thrust versus swipe. Most enemies in the game if they charge to their right (your left), its a thrust, so mikiri counter and attack. If they charge to their left (your right) its a swipe, so jump bounce counter and attack. The mikiri is harder to master, but hit circle as they start their thrust, not with the red kanji. Firecrackers and sugars can also help if you aren't good enough yet to beat by parry/counter.

On the drunkard, take out all enemies and go down the left corridor. Kill the enemies inside and then when you come out start killing the grunts around the drunkard and avoid him. Try to get them all and then run and hide in the water and let him de-aggro. Sneak back and backstab him and then go talk to the NPC - then its two on 1 for last phase. Alternatively you could backstab the drunkard when you come through the corridor, then go talk to the NPC and work on the grunts while he is fighting the drunkard. Then hopefully you'll get it down to just you and him with 1 health bar. Firecrackers and sugar are helpful, otherwise parry and circle around his back for damage.


The game gives you techniques later on that are useful for dealing with crowds.
 
Red Liquorice

Red Liquorice

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,064
UK
I would suggest taking on the horse boss first since he will drop a memory that ups your attack power, which will come in handy for the other bosses.

In general, concentrate on getting damagae in on bosses first before trying to fill their posture bar - the less HP they have the slower their posture bar will regenerate. If you try to fill up the posture bar when their HP is full it's much more difficult as it regens so quickly.
 
Lotus

Lotus

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
105,627
I beat this yesterday. Was my first title from these developers, it was quite the experience, very challenging. Now to debate on whether or not I should give NG+ a try...
 
Animus Vox

Animus Vox

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,500
NYC
Just started my first NG+ run, charmless (knowing now what that means) and boy is it easy to get cocky just after beating the main game and even easier to get quickly overwhelmed without trying to be the least bit stealthy.
 

Deleted member 2317

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Solus

Solus

Member
Oct 26, 2017
304
Thanks for the tips guys.
What helped me a lot was understanding the parry mechanics a little better. For example I can dodge right out of any attack/block but I can't block while I'm dodging or using block to cancel the dodge. Realizing that made me stop trying to dodge first and then try to block if I couldn't dodge far enough. That apparently doesn't work in this game. It seems I sort of have to decide right away to either dodge or to block/deflect.
What also helped was to hold the block button for a slight moment rather than spamming it. This way I'm at least blocking even if my attempt to deflect was off.
Now I wouldn't be surprised at all if the above isn't completely accurate, if that's the case hopefully someone will correct me. :p
Anyway, I got the horse boss down too now. And of course right around the corner is the next one already, the flaming bull. He seems a little easier though.
 
wandering

wandering

flâneur
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
2,136
Solus said:
Thanks for the tips guys.
What helped me a lot was understanding the parry mechanics a little better. For example I can dodge right out of any attack/block but I can't block while I'm dodging or using block to cancel the dodge. Realizing that made me stop trying to dodge first and then try to block if I couldn't dodge far enough. That apparently doesn't work in this game. It seems I sort of have to decide right away to either dodge or to block/deflect.
What also helped was to hold the block button for a slight moment rather than spamming it. This way I'm at least blocking even if my attempt to deflect was off.
Now I wouldn't be surprised at all if the above isn't completely accurate, if that's the case hopefully someone will correct me. :p
Anyway, I got the horse boss down too now. And of course right around the corner is the next one already, the flaming bull. He seems a little easier though.
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You're right actually, and spamming block actually shrinks the deflect window the more you do it.
 
genjiZERO

genjiZERO

Banned
Jan 27, 2019
835
Richmond
I know I'm hella lttp, but I gotta say - I really love this game. I have been waiting patiently for a proper Tenchu sequel for over a decade now, and this game utterly delivers. My only disappintment is that there isn't a bowl of rice for me to throw and distract guards! Well, and there's no mission for me to kill the foreign barbarians (how that ever got beyond the censors is beyond me) lols. I do think it's a little funny though - Acquire's Tenchus were so much better than From's.
 
OP
OP
janusff

janusff

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,123
Austin, TX
genjiZERO said:
I know I'm hella lttp, but I gotta say - I really love this game. I have been waiting patiently for a proper Tenchu sequel for over a decade now, and this game utterly delivers. My only disappintment is that there isn't a bowl of rice for me to throw and distract guards! Well, and there's no mission for me to kill the foreign barbarians (how that ever got beyond the censors is beyond me) lols. I do think it's a little funny though - Acquire's Tenchus were so much better than From's.
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ha glad you're in enjoying it. There's rice in the game, just not the kind you throw at guards. :p
 
AndrewGPK

AndrewGPK

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,822
Solus said:
Thanks for the tips guys.
What helped me a lot was understanding the parry mechanics a little better. For example I can dodge right out of any attack/block but I can't block while I'm dodging or using block to cancel the dodge. Realizing that made me stop trying to dodge first and then try to block if I couldn't dodge far enough. That apparently doesn't work in this game. It seems I sort of have to decide right away to either dodge or to block/deflect.
What also helped was to hold the block button for a slight moment rather than spamming it. This way I'm at least blocking even if my attempt to deflect was off.
Now I wouldn't be surprised at all if the above isn't completely accurate, if that's the case hopefully someone will correct me. :p
Anyway, I got the horse boss down too now. And of course right around the corner is the next one already, the flaming bull. He seems a little easier though.
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I would just say that parrying is more important than dodge in most (but not all circumstances). Its kinda the opposite of Bloodborne where I'd say Dodge was Option A and Parry was Option B (although for some enemies the order was reversed).

I think learning to parry really is the biggest key to the game, and the Ashina Castle boss is really the gatekeeper to making sure you understand that before you move on. Before him the parrys are more like tap......tap.....tap. With him you realize that parrying may be tap...taptap......tap.....taptaptaptap (and the miniboss before him teaches you quick parrys). Along with parry its also about mastering counters. The red kanji's are basically a rock/paper/scissors game (thrust/swipe/grab). So being able to read which of those 3 is coming becomes key (thrust=mikiri counter; swipe=jump and jump bounce counter; grab=dodge) and then the enemies have variable timing, so mastering the timing of the counters.

You can also look at each boss as different types. There are posture-based, vitality-based, and mixed posture-vitality bosses (along with some puzzle bosses). Posture based is mostly about parrying and countering to build posture damage - you may need to eat away a bit of their health, but the way to beat them is build posture for deathblows (Ashina Castle boss, centipedes are good examples). Vitality based, you need to deal health damage to beat (examples would be Ogre and Bull) - for these dodging and parrying is usually more about defending yourself and you are looking for ways to get their health down - they may have posture broken, but only at very low health. Mixed is kinda something in between (horse boss you played and hirata estate boss are good examples) - often you can build up posture, but only after you've taken a good chunk, like half of health.

Your over-reliance on dodge may be because they throw the Ogre at you early on and there are some other bosses like that, but really bosses where you have to do a ton of dodging and fighting like in bloodborne are more atypical. In fact many enemies you will probably think can't be parried, can be. The ogre was pretty unique because he was almost all about grab attacks, which really can only be dodged.
 
Solus

Solus

Member
Oct 26, 2017
304
Hey thanks for the reply. Yeah it seems most of the time you have to immediately decide to either go for the dodge or block/parry. Mostly it seems to be the latter, but definitely can't hesitate or somehow try to do both. Also the bosses are damn relentless in this game. Maybe a little too much. There's so many of them and they're so aggressive, sometimes you need a breather.
Anyway, I made quite a bit of progress since my last post, the game opened up a bit after the bull.
So now I have a whole new assortment of tough sobs to pick from. There's the armored knight in Senpou temple, the ninja down the well where the game starts, the spear general nearby, the dude with the claws after the guntower sequence, the shooter at the start of the sequence, the headless swordsman, the glowing ball summoner down the dungeon and lady butterfly. I might've forgotten one. Not sure who to focus on first. I'd like to go for the easier ones first haha. I only need one more prayer bead to complete another set.

edit: I got the armored knight, almost got lady butterfly down too. Not sure how to handle the rest yet haha, but at least I got another set of beads.
 
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AndrewGPK

AndrewGPK

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,822
Solus said:
Hey thanks for the reply. Yeah it seems most of the time you have to immediately decide to either go for the dodge or block/parry. Mostly it seems to be the latter, but definitely can't hesitate or somehow try to do both. Also the bosses are damn relentless in this game. Maybe a little too much. There's so many of them and they're so aggressive, sometimes you need a breather.
Anyway, I made quite a bit of progress since my last post, the game opened up a bit after the bull.
So now I have a whole new assortment of tough sobs to pick from. There's the armored knight in Senpou temple, the ninja down the well where the game starts, the spear general nearby, the dude with the claws after the guntower sequence, the shooter at the start of the sequence, the headless swordsman, the glowing ball summoner down the dungeon and lady butterfly. I might've forgotten one. Not sure who to focus on first. I'd like to go for the easier ones first haha. I only need one more prayer bead to complete another set.
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Now might be a good time to work on Lady Buttefly - maybe get one of those minibosses first if you would like to upgrade your health and posture. You may also want to upgrade some skills - the ones related to posture will be useful, as are healing effects, and in terms of combat arts go down the ichimoji path to work towards getting the double ichimoji.

After beating Lady Butterfly I would probably concentrate on working towards the Ashina Castle boss. This is pretty much the gatekeeper boss in the game, and the one that really teaches you how to parry well. Its a bit of a roadblock, but you'll feel more confident about your skills afterwards. Beating Lady B would upgrade your attack power, and upgrading the posture skills I mentioned would also help with this boss.

BTW, that Ninja in the well can be hit with an initial deathblow if you jump in the well over him, but the jump is kinda tricky.
 
catboy

catboy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,322
I think I'm on the final fight
genichiro 2/sword saint

seems very difficult. took me 2 hours and 90 mins respectively to do
owl father in hirata and demon of hatred

kind of ready for it to be over at this point tbh
 
AndrewGPK

AndrewGPK

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,822
o k said:
I think I'm on the final fight
genichiro 2/sword saint

seems very difficult. took me 2 hours and 90 mins respectively to do
owl father in hirata and demon of hatred

kind of ready for it to be over at this point tbh
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Yes you are on the final fight. Its an epic battle, but if you took out those other 2 you can do it. Genichiro is relatively easy, the challenge is getting past him without using up healing items - I considered it a loss if I had to heal on him more than once or at all. ISS's 2nd phase is the key, once you can reasonably parry all the stuff he throws at you and learn the attack opportunities its just a matter of time.
 

Beautifulmemory

Member
Oct 25, 2017
349
I was gonna quit the game for good when I couldn't get past Owl. Then I did, quicker than with G-Man (thought about quitting the game then too). Ran into Corrupted Monk, messed around a bit then best her as well. Fucking FROM you are amazing.
 
catboy

catboy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,322
AndrewGPK said:
Yes you are on the final fight. Its an epic battle, but if you took out those other 2 you can do it. Genichiro is relatively easy, the challenge is getting past him without using up healing items - I considered it a loss if I had to heal on him more than once or at all. ISS's 2nd phase is the key, once you can reasonably parry all the stuff he throws at you and learn the attack opportunities its just a matter of time.
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I got him down to the last phase but every time I jumped it seemed like I would land and get shocked before I could respond. 😓
 
AndrewGPK

AndrewGPK

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,822
o k said:
I got him down to the last phase but every time I jumped it seemed like I would land and get shocked before I could respond. 😓
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There is a bit of a delay in the jump, but usually that seemed to time with my own recognition that he was doing lightening, so it pretty much matched when I jumped. This isn't a counter you have to pull off a lot during the game. Some people say jump and just start spamming r1 (that way you will either dodge or better get hit and reverse it). I think I did the spamming the first time I beat him, but in NG+ I had the rhythm down and would watch myself get hit in the air and hit r1 before landing. As long as you hit it before landing you'll be fine.

(If you are already at this point you are going to beat him really soon if you have not already.)
 
catboy

catboy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,322
AndrewGPK said:
There is a bit of a delay in the jump, but usually that seemed to time with my own recognition that he was doing lightening, so it pretty much matched when I jumped. This isn't a counter you have to pull off a lot during the game. Some people say jump and just start spamming r1 (that way you will either dodge or better get hit and reverse it). I think I did the spamming the first time I beat him, but in NG+ I had the rhythm down and would watch myself get hit in the air and hit r1 before landing. As long as you hit it before landing you'll be fine.

(If you are already at this point you are going to beat him really soon if you have not already.)
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I did it.

Thank you so much for your help and encouragement! ☺ You being positive about it really motivated me to keep trying.
 
ItIsOkBro

ItIsOkBro

Happy New Year!!
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
9,476
is this headless ape optional or what. im trying to get the the hidden forest but the damn dirty ape keeps aggroing.
 
sora bora

sora bora

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,572
As between the Xbox One X and PS4 Pro, any considerations to take into account, technical or otherwise?

Thinking of finally jumping in on this. I reviewed DF's articles, of course. But they were largely indifferent. Thought it wouldn't hurt to ask here for opinions.

Thanks!
 
AndrewGPK

AndrewGPK

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,822
Noema said:
Well, you've already beaten in once so you can do it again.

You can kill the brown ape very quickly with Oil +flame vent.
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Confetti and firecrackers destroy that brown ape too. Headless ape should be relatively easy by now. If its time consuming try using the umbrella on his AOE terror attack - you don't even have to run away.
 
AndrewGPK

AndrewGPK

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,822
o k said:
I did it.

Thank you so much for your help and encouragement! ☺ You being positive about it really motivated me to keep trying.
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Awesome! His second phase is really the toughest to master - I actually think the lightening makes him easier in that last phase. So I knew once you had already made it to his final phase it was just about having a successful run, you had already figured out how to do it.
 
wandering

wandering

flâneur
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
2,136
Shura ending Isshin and Emma are kicking my ass. I can't seem to make it to the final phase without using up most of my healing and resurrects, then I keep on getting caught by the fire attacks. The timing is just really difficult for me. Emma is a pain, because I know what I should do, but one slip and it becomes hell. I can't ever get a breather. First phase of Isshin is similar enough to Sword Saint for me to mostly get it down, but I keep on forgetting about that sneaky dodge he does.
 
catashtrophe

catashtrophe

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,111
UK
Right ive done everything apart from get all the skills in order to get the plat.

I've got half of the temple arts to get then last 3 mushin arts. I've done the shuru ending so where's the best place to farm or is it best to just start NG++
 
Tamath

Tamath

Member
Oct 31, 2017
742
Vienna, Austria
catashtrophe said:
Right ive done everything apart from get all the skills in order to get the plat.

I've got half of the temple arts to get then last 3 mushin arts. I've done the shuru ending so where's the best place to farm or is it best to just start NG++
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I think the best XP farming post is Outskirts Wall - Stairway during the endgame invasion of Ashina (kill guy on tower -> kill guy beneath tower -> kill guy through the gate -> kill the 2-man patrol on the stairs -> idol), but it's a pretty boring grind to get all the points (which I did on NG+ because I never was all that great at this game and didn't think I'd be able to clear NG++ at all, even if it would have been the more entertaining way of getting XP). If you trust your skills and/or powers of perseverance you can just repeatedly run through the game to get XP.
 
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