Senate Judiciary Committee hearing - Ford & Kavanaugh testimony - 9/27 at 10am ET

[OrdinaryPrime]

I got into a heated argument about this last night with a person I had only met one previously.

"Man I'm really disappointed that the Democrats are delaying by putting forth false allegations." was the first thing this person said to me about it, after hearing a friend (who's a woman) question her motives by waiting to come forward. I didn't comment on the friend because I feel she's a woman and while I disagree with her completely and told her so, I wasn't about to get in the middle of two women discussing it.

Am I living in bizarro world? I could tell he didn't really have any specifics but the casual dismissal of a woman's suffering absolutely enraged me.

Republicans are arguing that they already did an investigation. They have sworn testimony from all the alleged witnesses.

Click to shrink...

While this may qualify under the definition of the word investigation, 'sworn' testimony from a lawyer in the case of Mark Judge seems a bit toothless. The statements from him in particular are limp and non-specific. And as we've seen, lying under oath is only a crime if people call you on it.

 

[Deleted member 4021]

I got into a heated argument about this last night with a person I had only met one previously.

"Man I'm really disappointed that the Democrats are delaying by putting forth false allegations." was the first thing this person said to me about it, after hearing a friend (who's a woman) question her motives by waiting to come forward. I didn't comment on the friend because I feel she's a woman and while I disagree with her completely and told her so, I wasn't about to get in the middle of two women discussing it.

Am I living in bizarro world? I could tell he didn't really have any specifics but the casual dismissal of a woman's suffering absolutely enraged me.

Click to shrink...

There are a LOT of self-hating women in America who value their own personal privilege over helping other women. Obviously not anything close to a majority, considering how Republicans are polling with women these days, but certainly a lot of older, white women in America can treat other women they view as lesser in absolutely reprehensible ways. I've witnessed this firsthand unfortunately.

 

[F34R]

They also know that isn't enough plus they were trying to blow off the other 2 accusers as if they didn't exist. In fact here is an article about an internal email that said they stymied the other accusers efforts to testify.

E-mails Show That Republican Senate Staff Stymied a Kavanaugh Accuser's Effort to Give Testimony


I don't think so, I think the FBI will report their findings if crucial asap and Kavanaugh will drop out / be forced out and they will get the ball rolling on a replacement asap.

Click to shrink...

They aren't reporting anything until they are done. Anything otherwise would be unprofessional and irresponsible.

 

[dee_activate]

There are a LOT of self-hating women in America who value their own personal privilege over helping other women. Obviously not anything close to a majority, considering how Republicans are polling with women these days, but certainly a lot of older, white women in America can treat other women they view as lesser in absolutely reprehensible ways. I've witnessed this firsthand unfortunately.

Click to shrink...

Yeah this, and as a white woman myself it is totally baffling to me that you would wave your hand at another woman's pain and trauma, when it could have easily have been you. It's a pack/survival mentality and it's disappointing and terribly sad that we do this to each other. They honestly believe that most accusations are false.

 

[Deleted member 4372]

I am fully prepared for Trump to attempt to railroad the FBI's 'limited' investigation of Kavanaugh in this case. Fully expect him to start complaining, probably early next week, that this FBI investigation has already breached the limited scope he has mandated, try to limit it further/shut it down, or some other such bullshit. He will attempt to discredit the results before they're even done investigating. Also, if the FBI says they have unearthed some shit that needs further investigating, Trump will rail against that too.

 

[Deleted member 176]

I got into a heated argument about this last night with a person I had only met one previously.

"Man I'm really disappointed that the Democrats are delaying by putting forth false allegations." was the first thing this person said to me about it, after hearing a friend (who's a woman) question her motives by waiting to come forward. I didn't comment on the friend because I feel she's a woman and while I disagree with her completely and told her so, I wasn't about to get in the middle of two women discussing it.

Am I living in bizarro world? I could tell he didn't really have any specifics but the casual dismissal of a woman's suffering absolutely enraged me.

Click to shrink...

This is why I try not to hang out in groups of white people that I don't know too well. I don't know if the people in your story were white, but I feel like shit like this always gets casually dropped when I do.

 

[OrdinaryPrime]

This is why I try not to hang out in groups of white people that I don't know too well. I don't know if the people in your story were white, but I feel like shit like this always gets casually dropped when I do.

Click to shrink...

I'm white, he's Jewish, my best friend is Latino. He just came up to me and started talking about it though and dropping the "I've been a Democratic voter all my life and I'm disappointed they're making this up." That's a pretty strong statement to say to someone you've met once when you don't know how they feel about shit.

Anyway I guess I needed to vent :/. Sorry.

 

[Deleted member 176]

I'm white, he's Jewish, my best friend is Latino. He just came up to me and started talking about it though and dropping the "I've been a Democratic voter all my life and I'm disappointed they're making this up." That's a pretty strong statement to say to someone you've met once when you don't know how they feel about shit.

Anyway I guess I needed to vent :/. Sorry.

Click to shrink...

Yup, that's the classic move. "I'm actually super liberal/I always vote Democrat buuutt (proceeds to echo conservative talking points for the rest of the conversation)"

 

[sapien85]

Why not just drop kavanaugh and get another person who will make the same awful backward decisions in the court? Why is he worth this much effort when Trump has a long list to choose from of anti abortion judges?

They think the process wouldn't be finished before the next Congress comes in?

 

[JealousKenny]

This is why I try not to hang out in groups of white people that I don't know too well. I don't know if the people in your story were white, but I feel like shit like this always gets casually dropped when I do.

Click to shrink...

We moved to a neighborhood that is majority white and it's very uncomfortable. We bought the house before Trump was elected and I can honestly say that if I knew beforehand this was Trump town we wouldn't have moved here.

This election has changed me. No matter how nice the neighbors are, and they have been nice so far, I can't forget that they are Trumpers so I keep my distance. I try to keep our relationship as hand waves and hello, nothing more.

I'm black.

 

[Deleted member 4021]

Why not just drop kavanaugh and get another person who will make the same awful backward decisions in the court? Why is he worth this much effort when Trump has a long list to choose from of anti abortion judges?

They think the process wouldn't be finished before the next Congress comes in?

Click to shrink...

Because literally everything reactionaries do is for the purpose of "owning the libs." They can't accept this L even if they still get what they want in the end, because it would mean they got owned by the libs.

 

[Doctoglethorpe]

Why not just drop kavanaugh and get another person who will make the same awful backward decisions in the court? Why is he worth this much effort when Trump has a long list to choose from of anti abortion judges?

They think the process wouldn't be finished before the next Congress comes in?

Click to shrink...

A lot of people don't know there's a gap between the election and the actual change of power. So that's probably part of it.

 

[Zelas]

I'm white, he's Jewish, my best friend is Latino. He just came up to me and started talking about it though and dropping the "I've been a Democratic voter all my life and I'm disappointed they're making this up." That's a pretty strong statement to say to someone you've met once when you don't know how they feel about shit.

Anyway I guess I needed to vent :/. Sorry.

Click to shrink...

I'm glad there are people out there like you who dont tolerate and ignore that blatant shit.

 

[JustinBailey]

Lol I do not and will never understand how a supreme court nomination could ever survive the request for an FBI investigation from the president / person who nominated the person in the first place. We are literally living in the twilight zone ^2.

 

[Deleted member 176]

We moved to a neighborhood that is majority white and it's very uncomfortable. We bought the house before Trump was elected and I can honestly say that if I knew beforehand this was Trump town we wouldn't have moved here.

This election has changed me. No matter how nice the neighbors are, and they have been nice so far, I can't forget that they are Trumpers so I keep my distance. I try to keep our relationship as hand waves and hello, nothing more.

I'm black.

Click to shrink...

Yup. I'm white myself so people don't even try to hide it, they just drop a Roy Moorian hard "Jew" in front of me or complain about ""foreigners"" and then act like I've insulted them when I push back. I can't imagine knowing those conversations are going on in private while neighbors pretend to be nice in person.

 

[potatohead]

I hear what you're saying but she didn't exactly just drop buzzwords. I didn't see Colbert, admittedly; however, she gave a decent explanation on the spot for a wide audience. She did a great job of making it accessible, especially given that the drop off between scientists and non scientists is fairly steep. <<I do have a minor criticism that the hippocampus would then relay the info to store long-term in the cortex>> blerp>> but for these purposes and this context, it was a great way to introduce how intense memories are preferentially coded in the brain via increased secretion of norepinephrine. I'm not sure that's exactly rudimentary, although I agree that most people don't have the slightest grasp of how the brain and memory encoding/consolidation works. Neuroscientists are still bickering about the finer details of these processes.... lay people are frustrating but that's because we need to pay attention to more people like Dr. Ford. One more, albeit peripheral, reason to be saddened that her testimony has fallen on many deaf ears.
She could not have been a better witness.
The very things people are using to "poke holes" in her testimory are the things that make it strong, because they reflect how memory actually works. That is what's most frustrating to me.

Edit: fixed a typo

Click to shrink...

Again you're misunderstanding or I am not communicating properly

It is not the explanation itself

Rudimentary is not a criticism of the description or Ford that is simply an accurate description and I didn't say it was inappropriate

I said the reactions to her statements were stupid and revealing

It is just eye opening to the underlying ignorance of people even in the Senate who are responsible for affecting healthcare policy that they likely have almost zero understanding of health and medical science concepts that they have really for the most part zero moral authority to even debate such topics which affect millions

None of what I am saying is about really ford's statement but of the shallow reactions to them

 

[OrdinaryPrime]

A lot of people don't know there's a gap between the election and the actual change of power. So that's probably part of it.

Click to shrink...

There are a lot of things that I didn't know before I started following politics more closely. Hell I didn't understand the primary process until a few elections ago. Ignorance and apathy are really my core issues with the American electorate.

I'm glad there are people out there like you who dont tolerate and ignore that blatant shit.

Click to shrink...

Thanks. The thing that makes me feel better is how important her testimony is to the country not just to this process. Since her testimony, Sexual Assault Hotline calls are up 200% as an example.

 

[Yerffej]

Lol I do not and will never understand how a supreme court nomination could ever survive the request for an FBI investigation from the president / person who nominated the person in the first place. We are literally living in the twilight zone ^2.

Click to shrink...

IT'S LEFT WING CONSPIRACY

 

[potatohead]

Eclipsed by Citizens United IMO.

Probably one of the worst developments in your recent political history, and largely responsible for the political environment you now find yourselves in.

Click to shrink...

100 fucking percent and it is shocking liberals and liberal media do not really talk about this in us

Sorry, but that's tripe.

Christine Blasey Ford made an earnest attempt to answer every question posed to her, as has been observed in analysis of her testimony. She has no motivation to recount her story in the public eye, she could have continued to live her quiet life. Blasey Ford showed no hint of malice or artifice. She was compelling, she was quiet but resolute. She was happy to submit to further investigation. She was honest about what she could not recall, and wished she could be more helpful, being incredibly respectful to members on both sides of the aisle.
That is why I believe Christine Blasey Ford.

Brett Kavanaugh has a vested interest in lying. Brett Kavanaugh lies regularly, from his very first commentary after being nominated, he was willing to bullshit to please Trump. Brett Kavanaugh has already mislead the Senate multiple times and under oath. He launched a partisan attack on the Committee Democrats, and feigned (poorly) indignation. He deflected questions that were posed. He sneered at a woman who began her questioning, with an anecdote about her alcoholic father, whether she had ever been blackout drunk. He showed his lifetime of privilege. He does not want the matter investigated thoroughly. Multiple accounts have come out about his characterisation of his drinking as untruthful, both before and after his testimony.
That is why I do not believe Brett Kavanaugh.

This is not a trial. It is a job interview. His life will not be over if he is not seated on the Supreme Court. He is not entitled to a Supreme Court seat.

Of course, this is probably pointless given you've "just asked questions" and that you've posted that his display of angry self-righteous nonsense was endearing.

Click to shrink...

well stated

 

[Deleted member 21339]

Click to shrink...

How dare you bring up my HS yearbook and scrutinize references to fart jokes?

 

[Deleted member 21339]

While this may qualify under the definition of the word investigation, 'sworn' testimony from a lawyer in the case of Mark Judge seems a bit toothless. The statements from him in particular are limp and non-specific. And as we've seen, lying under oath is only a crime if people call you on it.

Click to shrink...

Exactly. He knows this Republican majority-run investigation will never pursue his testimony any further.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Repubs want him in to see the Dems try and impeach him, so they can then do the same to anyone later.

 

[Carolina Reaper]

They don't have to prove he's guilty. They just need to show he lied under oath. At that point your best hope is that the three people holding this up vote against him on the basis he lied to the committee. Because guys like Graham will hand wave the lies away as locker room talk.

 

[JealousKenny]

They don't have to prove he's guilty. They just need to show he lied under oath. At that point your best hope is that the three people holding this up vote against him on the basis he lied to the committee. Because guys like Graham will hand wave the lies away as locker room talk.

Click to shrink...

This is where limited scope comes into play. You don't know what the FBI is allowed to investigate. That may only by allowed to investigate the sexual assault claim and nothing else.

 

[Deleted member 21339]

This is where limited scope comes into play. You don't know what the FBI is allowed to investigate. That may only by allowed to investigate the sexual assault claim and nothing else.

Click to shrink...

MSNBC had a former FBI agent on last night and he basically said the WH can't tell them what leads they can or can't follow, it's basically obstruction.

 

[Thorn]

MSNBC had a former FBI agent on last night and he basically said the WH can't tell them what leads they can or can't follow, it's basically obstruction.

Click to shrink...

Like that's ever stopped this White House .

 

[snipe_25]

100 fucking percent and it is shocking liberals and liberal media do not really talk about this in us
well stated

Click to shrink...

I'm proud of my state (MA) and this ballot measure:
https://ballotpedia.org/Massachuset...hood_and_Political_Spending_Initiative_(2018)

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

Hell yes.

 

[rjinaz]

Well his defence was his calendars, which I admit is the weirdest defence...but the issue is not about who I believe, the issue is over the article I posted, and the datails may be argued but the reality is the fundamental point is right, if you are a democrate he was guilty, if you are a republican he was innocent, and evidence matters not a bit...

And that should be concerning for all

Click to shrink...

I know this has been addressed but it's amazing how quickly people forget that Democrats prove time and time again they aren't hypocrites. And yes I know, Clinton 20 years ago, but let's look at recent times shall we? Franken was out fast as shit and most on this board agreed with that.

Actually, if Democrats were running somebody through and we all just witnessed that testimony you'd be hard to find anybody on this board arguing in favor of that candidate if we were at how bad things are we are with Kavanaugh. And yet, somehow, Democrats are still equated to Republicans when it comes to bipartisanship over sexual assault allegations even on resetera.

 

[Deleted member 8257]

The Pulp Fiction x Senate Judiciary hearing might be the funniest thing I've seen in a long while. I lost it at Graham.

 

[KtotheRoc]

Hell yes.

Click to shrink...

LOL. It's alright, Mr. Jackson.

 

[Saya]

So many lies.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

So many lies.

Click to shrink...

That entire series of questioning from Whitehouse was chock full of straight up lies from Kavanaugh.

 

[Saya]

new this am: Leland Keyser, who Christine Ford said was at the alleged party, clarifies her statement to make sure the Senate knows she does not refute Ford's allegations, but just doesn't remember the party. Also, happy to cooperate with fbi

Click to shrink...

 

[Parthenios]

I'm sitting in the lobby of my daughter's ballet school, and on a couch across from me a mother and father (of different students) are having a conversation.

Woman: "So did you watch the Senate hearing for the Supreme Court?"

Man: "I had it on for a little bit, but it was just talking heads going back and forth, and back and forth, just talking heads making a big deal about nothing. Then I turned it over to Thursday night football [He excitedly throws both of his hands straight up] and now that's what everyone wants to see and can agree is really important, am I right?!"

 

[woman]

Wasn't Avenatti coming out with something today?

 

[Deleted member 21339]

The moment the Pubs knew their boy was in trouble, pulled the Prosecutor and had Lindsey Graham go off on a political tirade.

 

[Biske]

I'm sitting in the lobby of my daughter's ballet school, and on a couch across from me a mother and father (of different students) are having a conversation.

Woman: "So did you watch the Senate hearing for the Supreme Court?"

Man: "I had it on for a little bit, but it was just talking heads going back and forth, and back and forth, just talking heads making a big deal about nothing. Then I turned it over to Thursday night football [He excitedly throws both of his hands straight up] and now that's what everyone wants to see and can agree is really important, am I right?!"

Click to shrink...

I always wonder about the men who are so adamant that they create a world where their daughters can be assaulted and raped with impunity.

 

[Vennt]

The moment the Pubs knew their boy was in trouble, pulled the Prosecutor and had Lindsey Graham go off on a political tirade.

Click to shrink...

Look at Kav's wife's face during that questioning, She knows he did it, it's the same expression she had on her face during his original televised denial where she stood next to him.

She knows he's guilty, IMO.

 

[Surfinn]

No, it is not me suggesting he is innocent and that Ford is lying. I even answered your question afterwards if I believe Ford. Which I said I do. Even with that you are still twisting the intent of my original post.

Click to shrink...

I am genuinely curious to see the reaction on this side of the site, if the FBI after their investigation shows that there is a lack of evidence to corroborate Ford's testimony.

Click to shrink...

Your original post used to say "if the investigation shows that Kavanaugh is innocent", then got edited to say "lack of evidence to corroborate". There's a massive difference between those two statements. The former suggests that Ford could be lying, the latter does not.

If you messed up your phrasing, that's fine, and it looks like you clarified what you were saying with subsequent posts, but I didn't put shit in your mouth, initially. The statement that Kavanaugh could be innocent is a statement that Ford could be lying, period. Again, you cannot state one without the other.

 

[Saya]

Flake tells @mckaycoppins that he's voting for Kavanaugh in the end "unless they turn up something" in the FBI investigation: "I'm a conservative. He's a conservative."

Click to shrink...

 

[The Pharmercy]

Click to shrink...

but impartiality...

 

[Surfinn]

Click to shrink...

Yeah, I would imagine all undecideds are voting yes if the investigation doesn't produce new information.

Though I'll be absolutely stunned if they find zero evidence. I think there's pretty much no chance of that at this point though, considering they're already interviewing people who were essentially hidden from the hearing.

 

[MrSaturn99]

Click to shrink...

Much as I expect the investigation to turn up information, I'm not exactly feeling optimistic.

 

[julian]

Indeed it was my point, and the articles point...but because the article blamed Clinton for starting this tribalism, it caused tribalism.

Click to shrink...

Bullshit. This is the new tactic by the right. "Well everybody is just going into their camps, so obviously there is no real point being made by ether side." I heard this garbage espoused by David Brooks last night on PBS and immediately lost all respect I had left for him (watched that segment for years and always appreciated his view).

The article you link is actively trying to make this a thing started with Clinton which directly tied to the conspiracy nonsense Kavanaugh was spewing during his testimony. It's directly playing into the Republican talking points to provide cover and pointing it out isn't tribalism, it's paying attention.

 

[Serenity Lotus]

Your original post used to say "if the investigation shows that he's innocent", then got edited to say "lack of evidence to corroborate". There's a massive difference between those two statements. The former suggests that Ford could be lying, the latter does not.

If you messed up your phrasing, that's fine, and it looks like you clarified what you were saying with subsequent posts, but I didn't put shit in your mouth, initially. The statement that Kavanaugh could be innocent is a statement that Ford could be lying, period. Again, you cannot state one without the other.

Click to shrink...

My first post (regardless of using the wrong phrasing) was only ever in the context of a "what if". The "putting words in my mouth" is in regards to your multiple replies trying to imply that I was making a definite statement from the start.

 

[Surfinn]

My first post (regardless of using the wrong phrasing) was only ever in the context of a "what if". The "putting words in my mouth" is in regards to your multiple replies trying to imply that I was making a definite statement from the start.

Click to shrink...

Suggesting he could be found incident, therefore Ford could be lying, initially set me off. It's a bullshit thing to post and I'm glad you at least edited it for clarity. But you've taken no responsibility for your initial statement, which ended up being removed.

"It will be interesting to see this board's reaction if he's found innocent" is a real bad initial look.

 

[adj_noun]

I'm a conservative, he's a conservative.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Deleted member 1635]

Yeah, I would imagine all undecideds are voting yes if the investigation doesn't produce new information.

Though I'll be absolutely stunned if they find zero evidence. I think there's pretty much no chance of that at this point though, considering they're already interviewing people who were essentially hidden from the hearing.

Click to shrink...

Of course they will. The whole republican angle right now is that while Ford appears credible, they can't act on uncorroborated claims without evidence of some kind. If even an FBI investigation turns up absolutely nothing (which I think we all agree is unlikely), then they will be in the clear to vote him in.

 

[Surfinn]

Of course they will. The whole republican angle right now is that while Ford appears credible, they can't act on uncorroborated claims without evidence of some kind. If even an FBI investigation turns up absolutely nothing (which I think we all agree is unlikely), then they will be in the clear to vote him in.

Click to shrink...

Yup. Decision to investigate is an all in move, no doubt.