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Inuhanyou

Inuhanyou

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,214
New Jersey
You can't force a company to do business with a foreign nation. No way this would be enforceable.

I guess they are not looking at it from that perspective, rather the opposite of forcing them to not abstain from israeli businesses...but its still a shitty and fucked up thing that isnt getting nearly the attention it deserves. That is why i say we have to have a serious discussion on what Israel is doing and how they have so many US institutions by the balls, and how calling that out is NOT intended to be antisemitism
 
Oct 30, 2017
707
Setting aside policy, the symbolism of BDS being very close to the same approaches led by many of the same countries in the region that were used to attempt to stop Israel from existing is something that can cause people (myself included) being very uncomfortable with endorsing wholesale because of the possibility of an unintended implication.

I absolutely think the US should be leveraging its relationship to pressure reforms and such. And you don't need BDS to do that, there's plenty the US can do on its own or in concert with others outside that framework.
This is mealy-mouthed and spineless.

The US will not and has not used its relationship to pressure reforms, and you know this.


Israel is engaging in ethnic cleansing, and a boycott of the small number of goods they produce is achievable and justifiable.

You know what unintended implication I find disturbing? The implication that you'd prefer crimes against humanity to continue with impunity because you don't want to look like a bad guy.
 
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Inuhanyou

Inuhanyou

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,214
New Jersey
This is mealy-mouthed and spineless.

The US will not and has not used its relationship to pressure reforms, and you know this.


Israel is engaging in ethnic cleansing, and a boycott of the small number of goods they produce is achievable and justifiable.

You know what unintended implication I find disturbing? The implication that you'd prefer crimes against humanity to continue with impunity because you don't want to look like a bad guy.

Wasnt the aparthied in africa partly stopped with boycotts and sanctions? I feel like historically, it should not be looked at as a bad thing
 

Ogodei

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,256
Coruscant
The key word seems to be "responding to international institutions." As far as I know, there is no official UN or EU mandate for BDS, so this is a nothingburger, although the symbolism of it is rotten as Palestinians continue to be slowly strangled.

Israel could make this all go away if they wanted to which is why I have zero sympathy for them.
 

GK86

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,744
If corporations are people, then this will violate their individual free speech.
 

samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
If corporations are people they should be incarcerated for life like people and forced to perform manual labor at below subsistence wages.
 

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
59,940
Yeah, this is clearly unconstitutional bullshit.
 
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Inuhanyou

Inuhanyou

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,214
New Jersey
Sanders, Feinsten come together to voice opposition to anti BDS senate law, claim it clearly threatens to destroy the first amendment of free speech in the United States

Senators Bernie Sanders & Dianne Feinsten on Thursday sent a letter to Senate leaders urging them not to promote a controversial piece of legislation that will penalize boycotts against Israel and Israeli settlements in Gaza and the West Bank.

Sanders and Feinsten, two of the most prominent Jewish members of the Senate, warned that the proposed legislation, called the "Anti-Israel Boycott Act", will harm free speech in the US.

"While on a personal level, we as individual senators do not support Boycott/Divestment & Sanctions Movement as the specific path toward engaging Israeli pressure on settlements, we remain resolved to our constitutional oath to defend the right of every American to express their views and calls for dissent and/or protest peacefully and without fear of punishment by the government," Sanders and Feinstein penned in their letter, which was then sent to Democratic Majority Leader Chuck Schumer and Majority leader mitch McConnel.

Both Schumer and McConnel support the anti boycott bill, which is being promoted by the pro Israeli lobbying group AIPAC.

The legislation has been met with opposition from leading civil rights groups, including the American civil liberties union, over the fact that it might stifle American's right to free expression and thought.

AIPAC and key cosponsors of the legislation reject these concerns by claiming the bill would only punish large scale companies that join the international boycott of Israel, and will not harm private citizens who choose to boycott.

However, the ACLU has in return argued that the bill could be used to punish private citizens, and would encourage states across the US, many of whom have already enacted anti BDS laws into practice, to criminally punish those with views critical of Israel.

Federal courts in both Kansas and Arizona have ruled such laws as unconstitutional over the past few years, as the two senators noted in their letter.

Sanders and Feinsten also warn that federal and state laws supporting anti BDS legislation could lay the unacceptable groundwork for fomenting a default narrative of pro settlement, pro apartheid views throughout the country by punishing American citizens who chose to boycott Israel in protest of said settlements.

"At a time when the right wing Israeli government is clearly aimed at foreclosing the Israeli/Palestinian peace process, it is deeply disappointing that congress would choose to penalize criticism of those policies", they said.


https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/.pr...nate-leaders-to-scrap-anti-bds-bill-1.6762918

Glad to see there are some people pushing back on this. A clear violation of rights.
 

Sho_Nuff82

Member
Nov 14, 2017
18,401
As I posted in the other thread, the ACLU has already successfully defeated such laws in two states this year in front of federal judges; they just picked up the case in Texas yesterday after the teacher's aid fiasco. A law passed by Congress could easily be brought before the Supreme Court, where it will be nuked from orbit. Transparent attempt by politicians to signal their support for Israel with a blatantly unconstitutional push.
 
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Inuhanyou

Inuhanyou

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,214
New Jersey
As I posted in the other thread, the ACLU has already successfully defeated such laws in two states this year in front of federal judges; they just picked up the case in Texas yesterday after the teacher's aid fiasco. A law passed by Congress could easily be brought before the Supreme Court, where it will be nuked from orbit. Transparent attempt by politicians to signal their support for Israel with a blatantly unconstitutional push.

These guys are sending a clear and present message. "we love israel and corporations, not the USA or its people's freedom of speech"

This is gross and must be stopped
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
This is a good thing from Sanders/Feinstein. (I may steal that quote in the third paragraph, it's a very good summation of that position.)
The best outcome from this would be politicians recognizing that they don't have to kowtow to AIPAC and Israeli lobbying.
I mentioned this to Inu last night- I think the current realignment we're going through is going to help a lot here on that front.
 

jeelybeans

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,948
Why is Israeli apartheid so hard for Americans to understand compared to say what happened in South Africa?
 

Sho_Nuff82

Member
Nov 14, 2017
18,401
it's only unconstitutional if scotus says so, and look who's running scotus

Allowing Congress to legislate "appropriate" protest topics based on simple majority couldn't possibly backfire. Even conservative justices and federal judges would realize how easily this could be abused, even if it were constitutional.
 

Deleted member 15440

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,191
Allowing Congress to legislate "appropriate" protest topics based on simple majority couldn't possibly backfire. Even conservative justices and federal judges would realize how easily this could be abused, even if it were constitutional.
they have the court for decades and can easily make up whatever dumb justification they want for why this is OK and anything the left comes up with isn't

i'm just saying don't count on the fact that this clearly violates the first amendment because that's not as much protection as it should be
 
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Inuhanyou

Inuhanyou

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,214
New Jersey
Why is Israeli apartheid so hard for Americans to understand compared to say what happened in South Africa?

The media doesnt do a good job at all on this front. Even back when israeli military forces were sniping civilians on the border, what was reported in mainstream news was much different, as "clashes between protesters", as if there was an equal fight between the two. The bias is real.
 

samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
Evangelicals need Jews in Israel to fulfilly the prophecy that ushers in Armageddon where God destroys Israel. This is actually a core tenet of their faith.

Israel lobbies very hard in the US for Israeli interests.

Disingenuous commentators try to conflate anti-Israel with anti-Semite even as Bibi works with neo-Nazis in Hungary, Austria and Italy to whitewash those countries' complicity in the Holocaust.

It is absolutely insane. Israel is working with European Neo-Nazis to destabilize Europe and US Evangelicals to fulfill biblical prophecies.
 

GameAddict411

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,510
It's very unconstitutional that even the most conservative judges will rule against it. But the law passing is not even the biggest issue. The scary part is the politicians that are so eager to do this despite how this will impact the freedom of their constituents. It's so puzzling to me how much Israel has power over US politics. It makes the Russian-Trump connection and the collusion seem like child play. No country ever should have a priority in legislation over it's citizen. But here we are.
 

Keldroc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,976
Evangelicals need Jews in Israel to fulfilly the prophecy that ushers in Armageddon where God destroys Israel. This is actually a core tenet of their faith.

Israel lobbies very hard in the US for Israeli interests.

Disingenuous commentators try to conflate anti-Israel with anti-Semite even as Bibi works with neo-Nazis in Hungary, Austria and Italy to whitewash those countries' complicity in the Holocaust.

It is absolutely insane. Israel is working with European Neo-Nazis to destabilize Europe and US Evangelicals to fulfill biblical prophecies.

My friend's evangelical sister decided she didn't want any Christmas presents this year because she doesn't see the point of material goods when it's so clear Jesus is coming back in a few months. "Absolutely insane" pretty much covers it.
 

samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
My friend's evangelical sister decided she didn't want any Christmas presents this year because she doesn't see the point of material goods when it's so clear Jesus is coming back in a few months. "Absolutely insane" pretty much covers it.
Ask for a gift of $10,000 since her bank account would obviously be worthless by 2019.
 

Deleted member 2145

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
29,223
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Inuhanyou

Inuhanyou

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,214
New Jersey
Sure but can't it also be the motherland without apartheid and genocide?

according to the fundamentalist texts of both handline israel and even fundamentalist right wing christian conservatives, ALL OF THE LAND must belong the israeli jews. that means overt destruction of the Palestinians who also share that land. Its a clear collusion for agreement of mutual annihilation.

Im not with this religious bullshit in the first place, i just want Israel to stop being able to control the US government in such a way, and hurting the Palestinians civilians caught in this nonsense both in israel and gaza and the west bank, who are obviously not on an equal ground.
 

jeelybeans

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,948
according to the fundamentalist texts of both handline israel and even fundamentalist right wing christian conservatives, ALL OF THE LAND must belong the israeli jews. that means overt destruction of the Palestinians who also share that land. Its a clear collusion for agreement of mutual annihilation.

Im not with this religious bullshit in the first place, i just want Israel to stop being able to control the US government in such a way, and hurting the Palestinians civilians caught in this nonsense both in israel and gaza and the west bank, who are obviously not on an equal ground.


Why is it the texts of hardline Israelis and fundamentalist right wing Chrisitans? Do they read a different Old and New Testament than everyone else?
 
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Inuhanyou

Inuhanyou

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,214
New Jersey
Why is it the texts of hardline Israelis and fundamentalist right wing Chrisitans? Do they read a different Old and New Testament than everyone else?

every right wing douchebag reads their own version of their religious texts no matter the religion. hell you can be a right wing athiest. ignorance and a reason to justify hatred and oppression of others has never needed such an excuse for human beings, they will find a way. But in this particular case, this is why the israeli lobby and the right wing conservative groups in america are united despite having a lot of antisemetic views in their ranks of individual jewish people
 

samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
Sure but can't it also be the motherland without apartheid and genocide?
To an extent, no, because "motherland" is an intrinsically imperial/colonial/nationalistic mindset.

It's like saying "can we have fascism without the violence and chaos and racism". Yes you can concieve of it and maybe even write a convincing fictional story about it, but that is not how it plays out.