• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

Ichthyosaurus

Banned
Dec 26, 2018
9,375
You're still shifting the blame away from those whose literal jobs are to serve the people.
You sound like the person MLK warns about.

I've agreed repeatedly with you about the responsibly the system holds, and various people in this thread about the system. What I don't do is give people a pass because they're on my side, I acknowledge failures and try to learn from them. There's plenty of blame to go around here, why aren't you ok with strengthening activists strategy about fighting climate change?

edit: In this thread I've repeatedly talked about the climate change activists using tactics BLM has, which gets ignored. Or are you lumping them in with people MLK Jr. talked about, as well?

edit: Furthermore, I believe in accountability. Do you?
 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2017
2,899
Ontario
I've agreed repeatedly with you about the responsibly the system holds, and various people in this thread about the system. What I don't do is give people a pass because they're on my side, I acknowledge failures and try to learn from them. There's plenty of blame to go around here, why aren't ok with strengthening activists strategy about fighting climate change?

edit: In this thread I've repeatedly talked about the climate change activists using tactics BLM use, which gets ignored. Or are you lumping them in with people MLK Jr. talked about, as well?

I think that ignores a large part of the way race plays within the american political arena as well as the different scopes of legislative change each issue requires. Sometimes the purpose of activism is not to convince people over to your side but to re-frame the conversation so ignoring you they become unacceptable to their base.

It's actually really straightforward, she's the senator for California and if she won't get on board we'll find someone who will.
 

Ichthyosaurus

Banned
Dec 26, 2018
9,375
I think that ignores a large part of the way race plays within the american political arena as well as the different scopes of legislative change each issue requires. Sometimes the purpose of activism is not to convince people over to your side but to re-frame the conversation so ignoring you they become unacceptable to their base.

What does this have to do with not adopting the strategies BLM uses? Climate change activists can't give them a call or look at their website? BLM has downloadable and free tools for activism there. They're not helpless.

Regarding the GND they will need Feinstein, and others Dems, to vote for that when it comes to the floor and she's only going to vote for it if she's converted.

The goal is to win, and climate change activists have not scored victories like the civil rights activists have made so they are losing badly.

It's actually really straightforward, she's the senator for California and if she won't get on board we'll find someone who will.

They won't be finding that someone for 5 years. How are you going to get the AOC's bill vote when she puts that congress within 2 years in Feinstein's seat during that time?
 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2017
2,899
Ontario
What does this have to do with not adopting the strategies BLM uses? Climate change activists can't give them a call or look at their website? BLM has downloadable and free tools for activism there. They're not helpless.

Regarding the GND they will need Feinstein, and others Dems, to vote for that when it comes to the floor and she's only going to vote for it if she's converted.

The goal is to win, and climate change activists have not scored victories like the civil rights activists have made so they are losing badly.



They won't be finding that someone for 5 years. How are you going to get the AOC's bill vote when she puts that congress within 2 years in Feinstein's seat during that time?

The strategies that they use, they use for reasons of race as well as the scope and direction of their goals, not just because they are activists. If Feinstein wants to be the holdout within her party for five years against relentless public pressure we were never going to get her support with honey instead of vinegar in the first place.

edit: also the civil rights movement was a negotiated compromise to redress basically all american history post-reconstruction. We don't really have the time or the ability to compromise in nearly the same way.
 
Last edited:

Ichthyosaurus

Banned
Dec 26, 2018
9,375
Let me know when she says fuck climate change and becomes Doctor Blythe.

Cute. Maybe next time they'll have learnt to do the carrot first, so we don't get to this predictable destination.

The strategies that they use, they use for reasons of race as well as the scope and direction of their goals, not just because they are activists. If Feinstein wants to be the holdout within her party for five years against relentless public pressure we were never going to get her support with honey instead of vinegar in the first place.

There's nothing that can't be modified or inspired to go in other directions with, or find contacts to discuss new ideas at how to arrive at their goals with groups like BLM. Yes, the goals aren't the same but it's not a dead end. The climate change movement needs to evolve and it can't do that by ignoring how other activists succeeded and learn from. It's not just about the content of what BLM it's about how they distribute their ideas and gain resources. Why can't climate activists groups do the same? There's immense overlap here waiting to be tapped and modified.

edit: also the civil rights movement was a negotiated compromise to redress basically all american history post-reconstruction. We don't really have the time or the ability to compromise in nearly the same way.

Then we're all fucked because the activists couldn't find a game changer way back when. Due to how the system has been set up and how solid it has remained compromise is the easier path forward, but if we don't have that then the kids are simply wasting their time protesting Feinstein because that's not going to solve anything on the scale we need to have an impact.
 

lacer

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,693
From what I can tell they didn't accomplish their mission, so we're all screwed.
Then we're all fucked because the activists couldn't find a game changer way back when.

this constant shifting of the onus from the people in authority to those speaking to that authority of yours is insulting. you have consistently blamed activism for 'screwing us all' as though the people trying to impress how dire the situation is upon those who actually hold power are responsible for how fucked we are, and acted as though entrenching oneself in ineffective or even harmful positions because you didn't appreciate the candor of the folks addressing you is acceptable and 'human'. i do not understand this pathological need to blame people who are seriously concerned for the future for destroying it when the only thing they've done and can do is talk to someone who actually possesses tools to affect meaningful change in the future.
 
Last edited:

Iloelemen

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,323
I've agreed repeatedly with you about the responsibly the system holds, and various people in this thread about the system. What I don't do is give people a pass because they're on my side, I acknowledge failures and try to learn from them. There's plenty of blame to go around here, why aren't you ok with strengthening activists strategy about fighting climate change?

edit: In this thread I've repeatedly talked about the climate change activists using tactics BLM has, which gets ignored. Or are you lumping them in with people MLK Jr. talked about, as well?

edit: Furthermore, I believe in accountability. Do you?


this constant shifting of the onus from the people in authority to those speaking to that authority of yours is insulting. you have consistently blamed activism for 'screwing us all' as though the people trying to impress how dire the situation is upon those who actually hold power are responsible for how fucked we are, and acted as though entrenching oneself in ineffective or even harmful positions because you didn't appreciate the candor of the folks addressing you is acceptable and 'human'. i do not understand this pathological need to blame people who are seriously concerned for the future for destroying it when they only thing they've done and can do is talk to someone who actually possesses tools to affect meaningful change in the future.

This, and just because you " ACKNOWLEDGE ™" the faults of the system doesn't make it untrue that you're shifting the blame away from the people who's jobs are actually to serve the people and are now instead blaming the activists for *checks notes reminding those innpower about the dire consequences of climate change that will affect their lives.

I believe in accountability, but it seems like you believe in a selective, unjust version of it.
 

lacer

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,693
This, and just because you " ACKNOWLEDGE ™" the faults of the system doesn't make it untrue that you're shifting the blame away from the people who's jobs are actually to serve the people and are now instead blaming the activists for *checks notes reminding those innpower about the dire consequences of climate change that will affect their lives.
it's maddening. the notion that somehow activists are to blame because in the past four decades they haven't figured out a way to speak to politicians in a manner said politicians deign worthy of their attention instead of, gee, i dunno, the politicians who haven't done shit for forty years just makes my skin crawl. blech
 

Ichthyosaurus

Banned
Dec 26, 2018
9,375
This, and just because you " ACKNOWLEDGE ™" the faults of the system doesn't make it untrue that you're shifting the blame away from the people who's jobs are actually to serve the people and are now instead blaming the activists for *checks notes reminding those innpower about the dire consequences of climate change that will affect their lives.

According to you blaming both sides for failing to solve climate change is wrong, but your ok blaming one side - which I'm supposed to be fine with? There is no shifting here, not on my end at least. There are more parties in this than the governments and corporations, climate change activists aren't meant to bystanders in this struggle they're supposed to be on the front lines fighting for us and winning battles.

This is all climate change activism is to you? You don't want them to be in the weight class to defeat the status quo and save us? You don't want them to incorporate and/or modify techniques from groups like BLM? You don't want them to be introspective with their flaws to improve their work in derailing the interests letting climate change become the economical disaster which imperils us all?

I believe in accountability, but it seems like you believe in a selective, unjust version of it.

I'm not being selective (you are, however), I'm accounting for all sides and wanting to address flaws from my own allies. This is why the kids were doing wth Feinstein, they wanted her to change her views because they viewed her as failing them (she was) but when it comes to your own group it's bad? It's not unjust to want my allies to be stronger and acknowledge flaws. That's the type of attitude I expect from conservatives, not leftists. We all learn and grow to be stronger, that's why I want the climate change activists to do!

this constant shifting of the onus from the people in authority to those speaking to that authority of yours is insulting. you have consistently blamed activism for 'screwing us all' as though the people trying to impress how dire the situation is upon those who actually hold power are responsible for how fucked we are, and acted as though entrenching oneself in ineffective or even harmful positions because you didn't appreciate the candor of the folks addressing you is acceptable and 'human'.

There is no shifting, I'm simply holding everyone accountable for their failures. I blame the system and the actors therein the same as you do. Again with emotional appeal on a subject I agree 100% about. It's not the condor I have an issue with as much as its the inability to be flexible on strategy. Of course activism screwed us here, they failed us. That's how we got to the status quo, they were unable to find the right solutions to get the governments and corporations on board - the latter holds an incredible role in responsibility for how we got here but you're ok with the results the activists did which lead us to this development. Sure, don't blame them but learn from their mistakes and find new avenues to win the goal.

Ineffectve and harmful? I've tried to find common ground and suggested methods both within the activist and scientist communities and more to be rebuffed because people here have given up on improving their organisations and movements. BLM didn't get where it is today by being stagnant it grew and did things with strategy. They are the first to exploit social media against their enemies to gain victories for their cause, for example.

How are you not screwed over? You're in the same world I'm in and climate change has not been solved in the slightest. This is ok with you?

i do not understand this pathological need to blame people who are seriously concerned for the future for destroying it when they only thing they've done and can do is talk to someone who actually possesses tools to affect meaningful change in the future.

I'm one of them.

The kids at Sunrise did not want to talk to Feinstein about anything, all they wanted to was to attack and protest her. They changed tactics later on because they realised their protesting wasn't working how they wanted to. Because sometimes you need a carrot to convert someone.

I'm wasting my time here, it's pointless to talk with extremists.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,899
Ontario
Cute. Maybe next time they'll have learnt to do the carrot first, so we don't get to this predictable destination.



There's nothing that can't be modified or inspired to go in other directions with, or find contacts to discuss new ideas at how to arrive at their goals with groups like BLM. Yes, the goals aren't the same but it's not a dead end. The climate change movement needs to evolve and it can't do that by ignoring how other activists succeeded and learn from. It's not just about the content of what BLM it's about how they distribute their ideas and gain resources. Why can't climate activists groups do the same? There's immense overlap here waiting to be tapped and modified.



Then we're all fucked because the activists couldn't find a game changer way back when. Due to how the system has been set up and how solid it has remained compromise is the easier path forward, but if we don't have that then the kids are simply wasting their time protesting Feinstein because that's not going to solve anything on the scale we need to have an impact.

Idk, the kids signal boosted Feinstein breaking her no fossil fuel contribution pledge. That's done more to move the needle then your concern here.

Also yeah, things look pretty dire. That being said you have to stop conflating activism across time and issues. It dosen't make for compelling analysis of our political economy, and certainly dosent endear those on the left with your placing of blame for their not managing to talk out poltical elites out of their self interest.

What does "doing BLM" even look like in this context? Next month an international student strike is being planned, I'm not sold on the mutual exclusivity. But just saying that they need to disrupt better defiently dosen't help.

The difference between the climate crisis and civil rights is an undeniable difference in the scope of who has skin in the game. That has to be internalized by more of the public before a nessecary realignment of priorities can take place.

Feinstein, never mind Senate Republicans, will never approve appropriate action if things continue down our current path. Of course it fucking keeps me up at night but that doesn't mean I'm going to forget the actual lessons history has provided us in how social change is actualized.
 

1.21Gigawatts

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,278
Munich
I'm not scared of the system being broken, I'm scared about climate change not being fixed - which I thought we had a deadline to meet?

Well. A few things.

1.
When it comes to "fixing" climate change you are basically up against one of the largest industries in the world. The will do anything to protect their profits and in a system where money buys you influence there is just no way anyone can compete with the fossil fuel industry.
Unless the system changes there is nothing you can do.

2.
There is no deadline with climate change. We are already way past the point of no return. We are already seeing the early effects of climate change and even if we stopped 100% of our greenhouse emissions today we would still slide into a massive, unprecedented crisis over the course of the next 100 years.
You have to look at the problem in a different way:
A different climate isn't the problem, the actual problem we face is the speed at which the climate changes.
This means that fertile zones will shift, our agricultural and fresh water infrastructure will become less and less effective, because it's no longer at the right locations, leading to shrinking food and fresh water supplies around the globe. Some countries will be able to adapt quick enough, other won't.
In addition to that rising sea levels will force billions of people to relocate. So in addition to food and fresh water shortages we will also face the BY FAR largest refugee waves the world has ever seen, and unlike every other migration movements before, this one won't be regional but global.
Europe is currently under massive stress because of a couple of million of refugees. Imagine the situation where there is a couple hundred million refugees and food and fresh water supplies are critically low.
More extreme weather like hurricanes, droughts, floods etc. will literally be the least of our problems.

This scenario is going to happen no matter what, we can't avoid that anymore. All we can do is lessen the impact, because it matters a lot if these changes happen and people need to relocate over the course of 50 years or 20 years or 10 years or 100 years.

According to the latest IPCC models, keeping global warming below 2°C would likely displace less than a billion people until 2150. (which sounds like a lot of time, but its actually isn't, even spread out over 100 years this would still pretty much means that the entire planet is facing an unprecedented refugee crisis for an entire century.)
But we are right now far away from even just that goal. In order to reach that 2°C goal we not only need to bring down our net greenhouse emission to zero, but we would need to actively filter CO2 and other greenhouse gases out of the atmosphere again.
Which is extremely expensive, but thats what we need to do, and thats what we will eventually start doing, because the alternative would be even more expensive - massively more expensive.
So basically what we are doing now, by continuing to emit greenhouse gases as ever, is taking out very stupid loans from future generations.
Right now fossil fuel companies are spending millions(lobbying), to protect their billions in short to mid term (private) profits, but down the line we(society) will have to spend trillions to clean that mess up again.

If we factored the clean up cost into fossil fuels, they wouldn't be economically viable anymore. But even the proposed carbon taxes don't even come close to factoring in the actual clean up costs future generations will be looking at.

3.
I am European, so I look at the US from a different perspective. I don't know if you are from the US but the way you perceive the US status quo as something set in stone is typical for people who view the system from within.
People start to perceive it as second nature and stop questioning it. Not only the political system, but also the economic system. People view capitalism as something eternal, even though it's a phenomenon that occurred not too long ago and is very unlikely to still be around by the end of the current century. Yet people act like we need to protect the capitalistic structures from intrusive policies to combat climate change.

To think that you have to play within the rules of a given system, when the system is obviously not able to solve the problems it is presented with, is weirdly naive.
There won't be a solution to climate change without a complete redesign of the current political and economic system in the US. No way.
Its not only policies that have to change. It's also about changing lifestyles and ideologies.
 
Last edited:

M.Bluth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,252
lmao. you're incredibly useful for some very banal people homie. smdftb
They're right though, it is pointless to talk to extremists.
But they repeated the same mistake when they misplaced the failure of the climate change debate on the activists.

If there's one thing that's clear after reading this thread it's that Ichthyosaurus is the fucking extremists.
 

Ichthyosaurus

Banned
Dec 26, 2018
9,375
Well. A few things.

1.
When it comes to "fixing" climate change you are basically up against one of the largest industries in the world. The will do anything to protect their profits and in a system where money buys you influence there is just no way anyone can compete with the fossil fuel industry.
Unless the system changes there is nothing you can do.

2.
There is no deadline with climate change. We are already way past the point of no return. We are already seeing the early effects of climate change and even if we stopped 100% of our greenhouse emissions today we would still slide into a massive, unprecedented crisis over the course of the next 100 years.
You have to look at the problem in a different way:
A different climate isn't the problem, the actual problem we face is the speed at which the climate changes.
This means that fertile zones will shift, our agricultural and fresh water infrastructure will become less and less effective, because it's no longer at the right locations, leading to shrinking food and fresh water supplies around the globe. Some countries will be able to adapt quick enough, other won't.
In addition to that rising sea levels will force billions of people to relocate. So in addition to food and fresh water shortages we will also face the BY FAR largest refugee waves the world has ever seen, and unlike every other migration movements before, this one won't be regional but global.
Europe is currently under massive stress because of a couple of million of refugees. Imagine the situation where there is a couple hundred million refugees and food and fresh water supplies are critically low.
More extreme weather like hurricanes, droughts, floods etc. will literally be the least of our problems.

This scenario is going to happen no matter what, we can't avoid that anymore. All we can do is lessen the impact, because it matters a lot if these changes happen and people need to relocate over the course of 50 years or 20 years or 10 years or 100 years.

According to the latest IPCC models, keeping global warming below 2°C would likely displace less than a billion people until 2150. (which sounds like a lot of time, but its actually isn't, even spread out over 100 years this would still pretty much means that the entire planet is facing an unprecedented refugee crisis for an entire century.)
But we are right now far away from even just that goal. In order to reach that 2°C goal we not only need to bring down our net greenhouse emission to zero, but we would need to actively filter CO2 and other greenhouse gases out of the atmosphere again. Which is extremely expensive, but thats what we need to do, and thats what we will eventually start doing, because the alternative would be even more expensive - massively more expensive.So basically what we are doing now, by continuing to emit greenhouse gases as ever, is taking out very stupid loans from future generations.
Right now fossil fuel companies are spending millions(lobbying), to protect their billions in short to mid term (private) profits, but down the line we(society) will have to spend trillions to clean that mess up again.

If we factored the clean up cost into fossil fuels, they wouldn't be economically viable anymore. But even the proposed carbon taxes don't even come close to factoring in the actual clean up costs future generations will be looking at.

That's deeply concerning and informative. Thanks for sharing that.

3.
I am European, so I look at the US from a different perspective. I don't know if you are from the US but the way you perceive the US status quo as something set in stone is typical for people who view the system from within.
People start to perceive it as second nature and stop questioning it. Not only the political system, but also the economic system. People view capitalism as something eternal, even though it's a phenomenon that occurred not too long ago and is very unlikely to still be around by the end of the current century. Yet people act like we need to protect the capitalistic structures from intrusive policies to combat climate change.

I'm American and that is true. I'm not against that in theory - it's putting into practice where it starts to break down over here. That's why I'm acting like this, not to protect it - it's to acknowledge the reality that the status quo is far stronger than they're framing and their defenders are weaker in making change happen then they boast about. I'd deeply love to live in a world where the climate change activists were able to take on the government head on and commit those changes we badly need, and to do that I've tried posting opinions which may get us there but right now, with the protesting leadership done by groups like Sunrise - that's a losing proposition and those methods have failed us. I don't know the answer to how to get the results we need but I know it's not blindly holding onto the tactics of protesting and smear jobs and repeat
adnauseam. I'm not saying don't do these tactics, I'm suggesting expand beyond those tactics until they find a game changer - which we badly need. Others have said they've tried my methods before, and if that is true they can still modify them - there is knowledge and connections out there now activists didn't have back in the seventies, so why not use them? What do we have to lose?

There is a misunderstanding that I'm protecting the status quo, when that wasn't my message at all. It was acknowledging how difficult it is to overcome the status quo, and exploit it to our ends as much as possible since there is no getting around (that's why the kids targeted Feinstein - they couldn't get around her influence in government) for climate change, and the goal of the overthrowing the government to reform it with one that fully embracing climate change rules is something else which is a bigger challenge than challenging the government about climate change. That's revolutionary shit, whether it be subtle (like the Justice Democrats from within) or overt left wing insurrectionist groups from the outside and between the two only the former has worked so far because nobody is going to join a terrorist group today with those ambitions. Groups like this do not exist in the US, the only ones I can think of was the Weather Underground and the Black Panthers (this is complicated, as an under statement) both were crushed by the government. To date the government and the corporations are at their apex at the moment (despite it being weakened by Trump), despite years of fighting from the Left and the climate change activists and they lost - that's why I don't have much optimism in the Left backing up their posturing in the real world. They've had years to do this and the status quo remains in tact. I'd be willing to change my mind on their affectiveness of both had I seen positive game changing results on the scale they want with the particular issues but I wouldn't hold my breath. This isn't Brazil.

To think that you have to play within the rules of a given system, when the system is obviously not able to solve the problems it is presented with, is weirdly naive.
There won't be a solution to climate change without a complete redesign of the current political and economic system in the US. No way.

Then there won't be period, since the people advocating this don't have the capability to achieve this. They've had decades to do this huge feat and the system broke them - not the other way around. That's why I'm trying to find alternative measures from the system within because this "revolution" idea has a terrible history of working. The government is simply too strong and the "resistance" too unorganised to accomplish it. I don't know what the Left is like in Europe but over here it's primarily posturing and focusing on local levels than actual national and state change they desire. That's why organisations like the Justice Democrats and Occupy were a big deal. They were able to make a dent in the system, but they hardly have broken the government right now. Whereas in France riots which can make their president nervous are a part of the culture there, it's not like that in the US, the populace is too sedate and unorganised to make a move like that despite having opportunities like the longest lasting government shut down. Nothing happened. It's the same with climate change, there never has been opportunities which the activists have provided to get the political system fully engaged and taking it utmost seriously. All their tactics so far have ben for nought. Lately they've had some impact but that's because the Left has finally made a big push by working in the system with the Justice Democrats and popular candidates like AOC (while influential they still remain small players in the grand scheme of things on the political side). Without that this protest be ignored completely or if it was lucky, a small blip in the media since kids were involved, by the press because nobody cares about climate change. That's why the Left here disappoint me so much they don't have a strong track record like they do in Latin America or Europe.

That's why I'm cynical, and want to find better answers to the climate change question.

edit: I'll amend the Black Panther as a civil rights group who are treated like terrorists, not actual terrorists.
 
Last edited:

Ichthyosaurus

Banned
Dec 26, 2018
9,375
This, and just because you " ACKNOWLEDGE ™" the faults of the system doesn't make it untrue that you're shifting the blame away from the people who's jobs are actually to serve the people and are now instead blaming the activists for *checks notes reminding those innpower about the dire consequences of climate change that will affect their lives.

I believe in accountability, but it seems like you believe in a selective, unjust version of it.

Let's do this again, now I've calmed down. I was over reacting by placing blame on the activists. Blame is the wrong word to use with them. This not about them being personally responsible for the consequences of climate change, they were the ones who are unable to provide the leverage to convince the people responsible to combat climate change so it could be fixed. Is that a better wording?

Regarding accountability and responsibility, I don't see those as words confined to strictly to enemies. Nobody is perfect, we must acknowledge and do something about our own flaws to grow stronger and adjust ourselves we can be in the same we need to reach our goals and I don't think the climate change activists ever arrived at this stage. I want them to win and protest us, as they're putting their lives and bodies on the line to get climate change solved. They're not bystanders in the crowd, they're the ones fighting for us in the streets and trying to pressure politicians from the outside to the right thing - which means they have responsibilities to uphold themselves and to do the job they need to be strong enough to make the impossible possible. That's why we need them to be able to get victories, and no this is not entitled to getting "conversation going" that in itself is a still a means to get the real action going and that is to get bills passed congress which will affect climate change. We're past the posturing stage for climate change, we need action now and that requires game changing tactics. I don't think this particular event fit that definition.

Calling people who are VERY concerned about climate change as "extremists". I can't at the privilege.

Look, nothing wrong with properly blaming people if both people have faults.
But you're equating without analysing the CONTEXT, you're being all boogie about it.

I didn't say that because of your motives, I said it because of your methods.

You're right that I over reacted, however, context isn't a sign that this is "both sides," per se. I'd have been fine if you or anyone else were able to admit that the activists have failed us, and need to get stronger to defeat their enemies, but even that is a criticism far too acknowledge. That's truly what disappoints. Where's the introspection? How do you make movement stronger if you refuse to account for weaknesses?

Imagine Ichthyosaurus doing the same thing to abolitionists or civil rights activists.

Straight to the character assassination. It seems you have strong opinions on this subject so why don't you share them, and join the conversation rather than giving empty hot takes?
 

Iloelemen

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,323
To the people claiming none of these themes existed, did you even play the game?

Final Fantasy VII opens with your character joining up with a radical environmentalist group to blow up vital energy infrastructure, which is being used by an unchecked, hypercapitalist corporate state – Shinra – to literally bleed the life energy of the planet for corporate profit. It's the first 20 minutes!

Shinra labels your party "terrorists," blows up a section of the city, blames it on you, and then uses the manufactured hysteria to make sweeping authoritarian abuses of power in the name of "safety" and "security."

The first major dungeon is a cushy corporate headquarters sitting safely on top of the slums you've been traveling up until that point. On your way up to challenge the President you see a wealthy ruling class living in unimaginably nice conditions removed from all consequences, and the enemies are all either unregulated private military forces or unethical genetic experimentations created it its labs.

Constantly the game presents you with cities and towns in the throes of economic disaffection to contrast with the prosperity Shinra has syphoned from them. Many of them were tricked into giving Shinra a stake, hoping to find jobs and prosperity, only to unintentionally make things worse for themselves.

The only real economic opportunity left for most people is to join the private military forces used to oppress the public and enforce the status quo – the very enemies you fight! – to the point that even the main character and antagonist were originally members.

Like these are all insanely relevant, even moreso in the year 2019 than the year 1997!

FF7 is really relevant to the issues of today.
 

Deleted member 17092

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
20,360
Not sure y'all understand what DiFi's actuallly saying there. So much for the out of touch 85 year old angle.

And y'all are still talking about this? Some shitty adults abused the agency of children and used them for a political hit job. Difi didn't take the bait.

There's not much else to talk about here. She could have been "nicer" sure, but children don't need constant coddling and if anyone should be facing scrutiny here it's the adults who put these kids in this situation. Far more harmful than some real talk from a senator.

They're literally using children for political purposes without those children having any real understanding of what they are even being used for. It's pretty shameful honestly.

Here's a sensible take on this whole situation, instead of all this uninformed hyperbole:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/a...video-climate-change-sunrise-movement/583501/
 
Last edited:

Dude Abides

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,382
So Feinstein pulled her shitty bill. I guess these horrible children and their manipulative child-abusing parents had an effect after all!

Oh man someone cited Caitlin Flanagan unironically.
 

Deleted member 22490

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,237
Can't believe these bloodthirsty children bullied her out of supporting her own resolution. 30 years of work down the drain. Decorum will save the planet if you let it
Those abusive parents should not be manipulating these children to be their bloodthirsty minions. We just lost some good legislation because of them in their zealous war against an uninhabitable planet.