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Senran Kagura producer: Next game may take some more time due to regulations

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Oct 25, 2017
8,959
0
Indonesia
Cultural relativism is bullshit. Japan has a gigantic problem with misogyny and objectification of minors. "Its just their culture" isn't an excuse.
Also, pretending that japanese people is ok with it and it's their culture is insulting. There's way more people agains pedo crap, even in Japan. Japan is just really slow at changing, but it does.
Exactly.
 
Oct 27, 2017
10,090
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I’ll say when I see nothings happens to Catherine and such I’ll provably back off.

I think a big concern for a lot of people is that it’ll effect more then these types of titles. Yet again this feels like we could avoid all this if Sony would just say what these new mandates are but I’m starting to think there doing this on a case by case basis.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,614
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as huge as idol culture in Japan would probably consider to be national wide creeps and needs to be changed like us Americans.
you know idol otaku are considered creeps in japan too, right?

i don't understand the "this is normal in japan!!! cultural relativism!!!" defense. nah, son. you'd be a creep in japan too.
 
Oct 27, 2017
277
0
UK
The only thing Sony really has to do is allow these reports and documentation to be done locally, instead of forcing English. That's not right or fair

As for tbe censorship and bans themselves? Good. I hooe they take it further and get rid of as much of this creepy stuff as they can
 
Oct 25, 2017
630
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The Senran Kagura title i played on Vita was fun enough, bit the exploding clothes, ecchiness etc did make me put the game down and never return.

Id probably play the next in the series if it rectified a lot of this, but i imagine a lot of the sales of this series are down to the excessive tits and ass shots.
 
Oct 30, 2017
915
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you know idol otaku are considered creeps in japan too, right?

i don't understand the "this is normal in japan!!! cultural relativism!!!" defense. nah, son. you'd be a creep in japan too.
you clearly have little knowledge about idol culture in Japan.
like even AKB 48 was invited to attend the annual Kouhaku show,
the most important TV show in Japan that literally 70% of Japanese would watch during new year eve.

there are creepy idol otaku sure, and there are a lot of people who like idol just like a fan of a singer.

just one example of cultural difference, has nothing to do with this topic anyway.
 

Tzarscream

Banned
Member
Oct 28, 2017
788
0
The Senran Kagura title i played on Vita was fun enough, bit the exploding clothes, ecchiness etc did make me put the game down and never return.

Id probably play the next in the series if it rectified a lot of this, but i imagine a lot of the sales of this series are down to the excessive tits and ass shots.
It’s its raison d’etre.
 
Jun 20, 2018
782
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They are much more liberal when it comes to fanservice, that's a fact. Same goes for most of Europe as well. It's just not right that America decides what's appropriate for Japan. What if Australia or Germany starts deciding what's appropriate for America. Or what about China?
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,000
0
Ireland
The issue is Sony have not issued a message at all. And Atlus have not said 'there would not be any issues'. Just that there would not be any absurd rays of light where you cant even see what's going on on the screen.
Which is surely reason to keep an eye on this but not for concern if the things censored so far have not been objectionable in the slightest?
And I didn't think they meant "Rays of Light" literally, more in the sense that they weren't being forced into compromises
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,163
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Tokyo
Why is listing the bust size even a thing? I mean its obviously not done in western games. Why is it a thing in Japan?
Up until 2015 Japanese schools used to do standardized measurements in school, obviously female school nurses would measure the female students, but these kind of stats about a character are common sense, because they (used to) exist for everyone.
 
Oct 25, 2017
593
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People need to learn that just because you want something doesn’t mean it should exist or that you should have it.
People need to learn that just because you don't like something doesn’t mean it shouldn't exist or that everyone shouldn't like it.

What you said can easily be changed for those who don't like things as well.

I've never played these games, but as long as rating boards say the content is fine and is legal, who is anyone to say what people can and can't like.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,864
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Which is surely reason to keep an eye on this but not for concern if the things censored so far have not been objectionable in the slightest?
And I didn't think they meant "Rays of Light" literally, more in the sense that they weren't being forced into compromises
The "Rays of Light" which brought the whole censorship policy thing to light were in a game with college age/adult characters and not part of a groping minigame.

That's why Atlus was asked about the ray of lights, and they only specifically denied that there would be rays of light. They never said there wouldn't be content changes.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,614
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you clearly have little knowledge about idol culture in Japan.
like even AKB 48 was invited to attend the annual Kouhaku show,
the most important TV show in Japan that literally 70% of Japanese would watch during new year eve.

there are creepy idol otaku sure, and there are a lot of people who like idol just like a fan of a singer.

just one example of cultural difference, has nothing to do with this topic anyway.
there's a difference between watching idols on tv and being an otaku who plays games where you grope girls, including underage ones. that's considered creepy in the US, in japan, and everywhere where there's people with common sense.

i don't know how much the rest of you know about japanese culture (i'm an expert), but being a creep and being sexually attracted to little anime girls are huge parts of it
 
Nov 23, 2017
6,556
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oh boy this thread really devolved into the expected matters.

that being said. even when most people are do likely not agreeing with the contents of the game due to the age of the characters and goes and side with Sony, lets not pretend Sony is only doing it cause characters are underage by game canon. this new wave of censorship is likely going beyond that and for that I hope many devs bail out on em cause they (Sony) have no real reason to be pulling this string.
 
Feb 28, 2018
644
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twitter.com
Sony not wanting games with modes where you sexually assault shifting legal age girls shouldn't be a controversial stance.
They drew the line at a place ESRB wouldn't.
 
Nov 1, 2017
402
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Which is surely reason to keep an eye on this but not for concern if the things censored so far have not been objectionable in the slightest?
And I didn't think they meant "Rays of Light" literally, more in the sense that they weren't being forced into compromises
It was such a vague statement on things. That’s why many of us are worried. We aren’t saying this sort of censorship should happen, we just worried about what comes next. If it stops here, that’s all well and good. All we can do is wait for Catherine and see what happens.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,252
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29
New Jersey
Which is surely reason to keep an eye on this but not for concern if the things censored so far have not been objectionable in the slightest?
And I didn't think they meant "Rays of Light" literally, more in the sense that they weren't being forced into compromises
You raise a fair point. My hackles are raised especially given Sony's lack of transparency on this issue and having devs jump through hoops regardless of the content. Just state your intentions Sony and i can actually take a position on how to feel about it
 
Oct 27, 2017
9,308
0
oh boy this thread really devolved into the expected matters.

that being said. even when most people are do likely not agreeing with the contents of the game due to the age of the characters and goes and side with Sony, lets not pretend Sony is only doing it cause characters are underage by game canon. this new wave of censorship is likely going beyond that and for that I hope many devs bail out on em cause they (Sony) have no real reason to be pulling this string.
Mind elaborating?
 
Oct 28, 2017
4,251
0
you clearly have little knowledge about idol culture in Japan.
like even AKB 48 was invited to attend the annual Kouhaku show,
the most important TV show in Japan that literally 70% of Japanese would watch during new year eve.

there are creepy idol otaku sure, and there are a lot of people who like idol just like a fan of a singer.

just one example of cultural difference, has nothing to do with this topic anyway.
Otaku is literally people being overly deep into their hobby.

Like plamo otaku means people who is too into plastic model that they throw tons of their living expenses into supporting their hobbies.

Actually otaku is not much different with so called hardcore fans. Like gaming otaku is= hardcore gamer.

Guns otaku= hardcore guys into gun hobbies

The reason why otaku now is seen as negative light is more of how they are seen as burden to the community due to them loving their hobbies too much.
 
Nov 4, 2017
2,000
0
People need to learn that just because you don't like something doesn’t mean it shouldn't exist or that everyone shouldn't like it.

What you said can easily be changed for those who don't like things as well.

I've never played these games, but as long as rating boards say the content is fine and is legal, who is anyone to say what people can and can't like.
You're posting on a game forum which has banned the last game in this series. If that was your line in the sand, you wouldn't post here.
And this is one of the rules on the forum:
No underage sexualisation: Do not post images, artwork, figurines, or any other material, no matter how stylized or fictional, which clearly fetishizes or sexualises characters under the age of 18. This restriction also uniquely extends to discussions; do not condone, defend, or otherwise excuse the sexualisation of children.
This forum has already decided that other people liking stuff, isn't a good enough reason for this sort of stuff.
 
Oct 30, 2017
915
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there's a difference between watching idols on tv and being an otaku who plays games where you grope girls, including underage one. that's considered creepy in the US, in japan, and everywhere where there's people with common sense.
this has nothing to do with what I said about idol culture.
 

Tzarscream

Banned
Member
Oct 28, 2017
788
0
oh boy this thread really devolved into the expected matters.

that being said. even when most people are do likely not agreeing with the contents of the game due to the age of the characters and goes and side with Sony, lets not pretend Sony is only doing it cause characters are underage by game canon. this new wave of censorship is likely going beyond that and for that I hope many devs bail out on em cause they (Sony) have no real reason to be pulling this string.
Censorshipgate.

It’s actually about censorship in video games.



Get over this slippery slope bullshit. What do you think Sony is going to start censoring exactly? Criticism of political regimes?
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,614
0
i was gonna make a "defense of little anime girl porn" bingo but there aren't even enough arguments to fill one out. it's always "cultural relativism", "9000 year old dragon", "age of consent in japan" and "what about violent video games?".
this has nothing to do with what I said about idol culture.
you're trying to paint japan as a country that's, as a whole, okay with the stuff that's portrayed in senran kagura. that's pretty fucked, imo
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,642
0
Up until 2015 Japanese schools used to do standardized measurements in school, obviously female school nurses would measure the female students, but these kind of stats about a character are common sense, because they (used to) exist for everyone.
Wait, so the test does not exist anymore? Now that you mention it, I have not seen this practice in new anime shows anymore. I remember seeing this measurement test in some "older" shows like Doraemon.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,448
0
oh boy this thread really devolved into the expected matters.

that being said. even when most people are do likely not agreeing with the contents of the game due to the age of the characters and goes and side with Sony, lets not pretend Sony is only doing it cause characters are underage by game canon. this new wave of censorship is likely going beyond that and for that I hope many devs bail out on em cause they (Sony) have no real reason to be pulling this string.
Imagine being a big enough creep to think disallowing the sexualization and assault of underage girls is a bad thing.
 
Nov 23, 2017
6,556
0
You claimed they didn't do it because of the characters being under age so what exactly could it be?
broad spectrum, as other games with raunchy content been censored without it being related underage girl.

unless the other games depicted underage girl by game canon and so then Ill be mistaken.


Imagine being a big enough creep to think disallowing the sexualization and assault of underage girls is a bad thing.
Get over this slippery slope bullshit. What do you think Sony is going to start censoring exactly? Criticism of political regimes?
Because that’s not good enough? Mega eye roll.
imagine not having reading comprehension and making hot takes
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,627
0
China
i was gonna make a "defense of little anime girl porn" bingo but there aren't even enough arguments to fill one out. it's always "cultural relativism", "9000 year old dragon", "age of consent in japan" and "what about violent video games?".

you're trying to paint japan as a country that's, as a whole, okay with the stuff that's portrayed in senran kagura. that's pretty fucked, imo
Japan is still the country that has a market of underage gravure idol DVDs.
Its still the country where you can see sexualization of minors in a typical normal Shounen magazine.
Its the country where also everyday people read JUMP that had ToLoveRu in it.
Its the country where just in a normal Live action Drama you might see half naked teens.
And a country that has designated female trains to avoid them being groped.
The country that sold CP till around 2000.

At least part of it seems to seeps into normal society.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,163
0
Tokyo
User Banned (1 Week): Inflammatory false equivalence.
Wait, so the test does not exist anymore? Now that you mention it, I have not seen this practice in new anime shows anymore. I remember seeing this measurement test in some "older" shows like Doraemon.
Yeah, it was retired a few years because of concerns about fat shamming and whatnot. I personally think that the tests should be done and preventative measures should be taken if children weight too little or too much, but I guess feelings have taken priority over health.

you're trying to paint japan as a country that's, as a whole, okay with the stuff that's portrayed in senran kagura. that's pretty fucked, imo
Eh, Japan is okay with it in the sense that as long as no-one gets hurt, it is fine. That said, those people are considered otaku, but so is everyone on this website, as we have invested way too much of our time and money into the hobby of gaming. Gaming is something for children to do, or on the subway commute. Right or wrong, but people who are overly invested in an idol group and people who spend lots of money on video games are on the same level.
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,090
0
Madrid
I don't even care for these games but still, damn Sony.
Yeah, how dare Sony push against sexism and sexualization of women (and minors).

Do you think video games harm people one way or another?
Of course I do, and yes, before you spew the predictable whataboutism derail, that includes violence.

This topic isn't about violence.

imagine not having reading comprehension and making hot takes
Your slippery slope fallacious argument is about as transparent and impossible to misunderstand as the games themselves.
 

LRB1983

Banned
Member
Oct 30, 2017
339
0
User banned (1 month): defending the sexualization of minors
I hope next Sony console ends like Betamax did -cause "porn" policy-.
People who are interested in this game -me- not gonna buy censored version. People who wants it censored won't buy censored version.
Move to other platform we will follow you.
Home console market is already dead in Japan.
 
Nov 23, 2017
6,556
0
Yet there are games coming out that are uncensored with "raunchy content". A huge game two months back had full nudity and nothing was done about it.
and that is also part of the problem that similar to what Steam used to do, the policies are handed rather inconsistent. we all just know that some raunchy content games are getting modified while other not.
so far all we know is when they demand something change. we dont know what rules exactly they go by. and as I said. some games are getting this treatment even when they dont depict underage girl (unless the DoL girls are under age, I dont know, dont play the games).


Your slippery slope fallacious argument is about as transparent and impossible to misunderstand as the games themselves.
sure m8, whatever helps you sleep at night, evil evil me.
 
Oct 27, 2017
9,308
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and that is also part of the problem that similar to what Steam used to do, the policies are handed rather inconsistent. we all just know that some raunchy content games are getting modified while other not.
Mind giving examples?

Most of the games I have seen that were hit had huge amount of objectification or molestation (with Senran Kagura having a mode which allows you to touch the girls like a perv, and no the girls aren't happy with it).

Aside from that, I agree Sony need to release the rules because it makes things clear. They also need to open a Japanese office for the Devs to submit their games in Japanese.
 
It is the precise point you're making, no matter how much you hide it behind concern trolling and doomsday slippery slopes. But feel free to clear any misconceptions you feel I have about it.
Okay, after I especifically said that I don't care about these games and I have mentioned several times in the past that I don't like this "genre" in particular?

Really?
 
Oct 25, 2017
593
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You're posting on a game forum which has banned the last game in this series. If that was your line in the sand, you wouldn't post here.
And this is one of the rules on the forum:

This forum has already decided that other people liking stuff, isn't a good enough reason for this sort of stuff.
What the forum decides doesn't matter. This forum is a privately owned forum that when you join you have to agree to the TOS and adhere to the rules so they are free to make whatever rules they want. Believing a game is fine as long as it is rated as fine and legal has no relation to what a forum decides. Like I said I've never played these games so It being banned here doesn't matter to me.
 

RM8

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,841
0
JP
Right or wrong, but people who are overly invested in an idol group and people who spend lots of money on video games are on the same level.
In my experience, either games are exponentially more mainstream than idols, or people keep their love for idols secret. Come to think of it, I don't have any Japanese friend who is into idols. Games? Absolutely, tons of people play games here (mostly on their phones, granted) and I just saw a Super Smash Bros. commercial on my train home. I would absolutely say being the kind of idol fan who obsesses over a girl's "size" and buys dozens of CDs in order to meet his favorite idol is not seen as normal here.
 
Nov 23, 2017
6,556
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Mind giving examples?
about games with objectionable content, or objectionable content towards underage girls??
objectionable content, all games banned from the "light rays meme" VN but objectionable with underage girl, only SK as far as I know (aka I dont know the game canon ages of the girls in the other games)

It is the precise point you're making, no matter how much you hide it behind concern trolling and doomsday slippery slopes. But feel free to clear any misconceptions you feel I have about it.
whats with you? all your argument is "SLIPPERY SLOP YOU OPINION IS WRONG!!"
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,090
0
Madrid
sure m8, whatever helps you sleep at night, evil evil me.
Solid counterargument, I am convinced.

Okay, after I especifically said that I don't care about these games and I have mentioned several times in the past that I don't like this "genre" in particular?

Really?
What does your (stated) personal opinion on the game have to do with the actual argument you're making? I don't care about the former in the least.

whats with you? all your argument is "SLIPPERY SLOP YOU OPINION IS WRONG!!"
If I see a pond full of ducks, I'm not going to call some of them eagles to avoid repetition.

So far your collective counterarguments to the very obvious fact you're arguing against slippery slope doomsday scenarios, not this actual situations, are:
- You're calling me evil, boo hoo.
- But I actually don't care about the games.
- You're repeating yourself.
None of these are actual arguments.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,068
0
The Ocean
Aside from that, I agree Sony need to release the rules because it makes things clear. They also need to open a Japanese office for the Devs to submit their games in Japanese.
I don’t think this is a particularly fair statement without knowing the full reasoning. My internalised understanding is that for a game to be released worldwide that needs to be understood across all regions. I don’t think any region gets off from this ask.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,492
0
i was gonna make a "defense of little anime girl porn" bingo but there aren't even enough arguments to fill one out. it's always "cultural relativism", "9000 year old dragon", "age of consent in japan" and "what about violent video games?".

you're trying to paint japan as a country that's, as a whole, okay with the stuff that's portrayed in senran kagura. that's pretty fucked, imo

Nah you can add the following:
"They're not real so it doesnt count"
"There are real adult women who look like younger than their age"
:")
 
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