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Senran Kagura producer: Next game may take some more time due to regulations

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Oct 25, 2017
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It is a waste of time to discuss the age of fictional characters.
Yeah, it was retired a few years because of concerns about fat shamming and whatnot. I personally think that the tests should be done and preventative measures should be taken if children weight too little or too much, but I guess feelings have taken priority over health.
Thanks for the info. As far as I know, students at my place still need to do it every year so that the government can monitor the health conditions of children. It is a shame that Japan stopped the practice just to protect children from feeling bad. On the other hand, at least Japan has health and sex education in school. My place completely lacks this thing because of stigma towards sex. Adults here rarely discussed sex topics with children, which is really backward.
 
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Nov 4, 2017
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What the forum decides doesn't matter. This forum is a privately owned forum that when you join you have to agree to the TOS and adhere to the rules so they are free to make whatever rules they want. Believing a game is fine as long as it is rated as fine and legal has no relation to what a forum decides. Like I said I've never played these games so It being banned here doesn't matter to me.
Playstation is a private platform that is allowed to make the rules for what's allowed on their platform as they see fit - heck, that's what the definition of a closed platform is. By selling it on their platform, Sony make a cut from that game, they are entitled to then deciding whether they want to be associated with a product.
 
Oct 27, 2017
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No, it's never a bad look to drive devs of questionable content away.

Never. We're talking about sexualised children here.
Well said and I agree.
I hope next Sony console ends like Betamax did -cause "porn" policy-.
People who are interested in this game -me- not gonna buy censored version. People who wants it censored won't buy censored version.
Move to other platform we will follow you.
Home console market is already dead in Japan.
"I can't play games with nude / weirdly sexualized characters, so I hope a certain system fails." Hilarious.
Dude, you can play these games on other platforms if you want to. Get a Switch, play the games there and enjoy it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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Good on Sony, hope this sets a precedent for other platform holders to follow.

Sony are right to not want content involving sexualised teenage girls (and groping mini games WTF) on their platform. Get that pedo shit outta here.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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You can both think that games like Senran Kagura and Omega Labyrinth are creepy and that Sony is being stupid. They are not mutually exclusive views.

Unjustly calling people creeps and paedos being tolerated is absolute BS.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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In my experience, either games are exponentially more mainstream than idols, or people keep their love for idols secret. Come to think of it, I don't have any Japanese friend who is into idols. Games? Absolutely, tons of people play games here (mostly on their phones, granted) and I just saw a Super Smash Bros. commercial on my train home. I would absolutely say being the kind of idol fan who obsesses over a girl's "size" and buys dozens of CDs in order to meet his favorite idol is not seen as normal here.
Really? Whenever a major idol announces graduation she appears on the news, does the circuits with all the other talent as guest commentary or during primetime variety, they always have cross promotion with major cup noodle brands, convenience stores, for instance, you can collect nogi trading cards with your ochaduke. If you were to ask a grade schooler what their favorite group/musician is, 90% (made up fact, right now it will be DA PUMP) of the time they will name an idol group. Idol groups are constantly at the top of oricon's top sales. I don't talk much with my friends about idols nor games, but when it is games, it is pretty much just major major games like smash or dq, and when it is idols (for me at least) is is pretty much always Seiko. The second you step out of the Nintendo/DQ boundary into something like CoD you are definitely getting into serious otaku territory.
 
Oct 27, 2017
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about games with objectionable content, or objectionable content towards underage girls??
objectionable content, all games banned from the "light rays meme" VN but objectionable with underage girl, only SK as far as I know (aka I dont know the game canon ages of the girls in the other games)
As far as I know there was only one game with "light rays" but I am not sure what is going on in the story to even comment on it. I heard there was questionable stuff in the game but I am not sure how true that is.

And what exactly do you mean by the SK stuff? I don't quite understand your wording.
I don’t think this is a particularly fair statement without knowing the full reasoning. My internalised understanding is that for a game to be released worldwide that needs to be understood across all regions. I don’t think any region gets off from this ask.
I see your point. I didn't mean to imply that some regions get off easy. I think they would need to open offices for games in every region because there has been some examples about Japanese developers needing to submit their games in English paperwork and that's something that shouldn't happen, especially in Japan because English isn't really that popular there.
 

LRB1983

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Oct 30, 2017
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Dude, you can play these games on other platforms if you want to. Get a Switch, play the games there and enjoy it.
Yes, that’s what I said I will play it on the other system. I enjoy lewd -you call them weird- games and I hope Sony go broke cause changing their policies.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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Playstation is a private platform that is allowed to make the rules for what's allowed on their platform as they see fit - heck, that's what the definition of a closed platform is. By selling it on their platform, Sony make a cut from that game, they are entitled to then deciding whether they want to be associated with a product.
If you look at my original post I was talking about people with the mindset of they don't like something so no one should. You are right Playstation is a closed platform an they do have the right to decide whether or not they want a product (or want it in its current state). Just like consumers are well within their right to criticise Sony for their new stance and the lack of communication on what their new stance actually is.
 
Oct 26, 2017
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Madrid
You can both think that games like Senran Kagura and Omega Labyrinth are creepy and that Sony is being stupid. They are not mutually exclusive views.
How is calling Sony "stupid" for banning underage sexualization not implicitly defending the latter? The only argument I've seen to even attempt to perform this feat of mental gymnastics is "well they might ban fondling minors now, but what if this emboldens them to ban X later?". If anyone wants to present an argument for "Sony is in the wrong here" beyond the above slippery slope (or straight out "fondling minors in games is fine"), I'm all ears.

Yes, that’s what I said I will play it on the other system. I enjoy lewd -you call them weird- games and I hope Sony go broke cause changing their policies.
It's kind of amazing that of all the reasons to wish for a company to go bankrupt, it was "not wanting women to be treated as sex toys" that brought you to it.
 
Oct 28, 2017
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Yeah, it was retired a few years because of concerns about fat shamming and whatnot. I personally think that the tests should be done and preventative measures should be taken if children weight too little or too much, but I guess feelings have taken priority over health.



Eh, Japan is okay with it in the sense that as long as no-one gets hurt, it is fine. That said, those people are considered otaku, but so is everyone on this website, as we have invested way too much of our time and money into the hobby of gaming. Gaming is something for children to do, or on the subway commute. Right or wrong, but people who are overly invested in an idol group and people who spend lots of money on video games are on the same level.
I already mentioned how Otaku is literally people obsessing on one thing lol. Which is literally all of us on ERA is game otaku lol. Wkwkwkwkwk. But guess being called otaku is nowadays such a taboo that people afraid being linked as them.
 

RM8

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Oct 28, 2017
2,841
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JP
Really? Whenever a major idol announces graduation she appears on the news, does the circuits with all the other talent as guest commentary or during primetime variety, they always have cross promotion with major cup noodle brands, convenience stores, for instance, you can collect nogi trading cards with your ochaduke. If you were to ask a grad schooler what their favorite group/musician is, 90% (made up fact) of the time they will name an idol group. Idol groups are constantly at the top of oricon's top sales. I don't talk much with my friends about idols nor games, but when it is games, it is pretty much just major major games like smash or dq, and when it is idols (for me at least) is is pretty much always Seiko. The second you step out of the Nintendo/DQ boundary into something like CoD you are definitely getting into serious otaku territory.
I think we're not disagreeing that much. Games are pretty mainstream here - as you say, with Nintendo games and DQ being among the most popular. This is of course not true for niche games like, well, Senran Kagura, but that goes without saying. But I know people who are really into Pokémon Go, Mario Odyssey, one of my co-workers often takes her Switch to work... and well, you have the Japanese prime minister dressing as Mario at the olympics. I'm not saying idols are not popular, but being into idols is absolutely not the norm and it's not a-ok to be one of those guys who obsesses over little girls, buys dozens of CDs (which is how they top sales rankings) in order to attend hand-shake events and the like.
 

Mzo

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Nov 30, 2017
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All this age discussions are basically useless because the core of the problem here is not the age, but the act.

Judging by their expressions, you are basically raping the girls in these games.


The people who defend this shit just don't understand. They have no clue that there's a difference between a game having nudity or even sex in a more nuanced context and a game having mechanics that let you touch/tear girls' outfit apart.

They really have no clue.
This is the biggest takeaway here. Criticism of the way sexuality is handled in these games always leads back to cultural differences or the US being prudish. It's not about that at all.

Just think about it for a second. Especially in a country that has a serious groping problem in public transportation, underage porn issues, and really young girls getting dragged into sex work. Should a game company make a game where you can pretend to grope high school girls who are 15-16 years old? And they actively don't like it? Isn't that a little tone-deaf and super objectifying?

Yes, they're in high school in the story and are underage. That's not a fake characters have no age thing, they are in high school and I promise you that their being young is part of the titillation.

Has anyone here discussed this with an actual woman in their lives? They've all been groped or worse after saying no. My wife has had some bad shit happen to her as a kid, and this normalizes the behavior that traumatized her. Every single woman I know has a story.

Explain this game mode to a female peer and why it's so important to keep it in the game. Let me know what they think.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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How is calling Sony "stupid" for banning underage sexualization not implicitly defending the latter? The only argument I've seen to even attempt to perform this feat of mental gymnastics is "well they might ban fondling minors now, but what if this emboldens them to ban X later?". If anyone wants to present an argument for "Sony is in the wrong here" beyond the above slippery slope (or straight out "fondling minors in games is fine"), I'm all ears.



It's kind of amazing that of all the reasons to wish for a company to go bankrupt, it was "not wanting women to be treated as sex toys" that brought you to it.
There's already a game that (AFAIK) doesn't feature minors or any kind of molestation that has been censored so it's not just exclusive to games like SK. Noraneko Heart or something it's called.

There's also a lot to criticize in regards to how Sony is actually going about it; in terms of how they are being inconsistent across different games, how they are requiring publishers to submit all of their documentation in english, the fact that it's been sprung upon developers and is affecting games that are in later stages of development, directly causing financial damage to third parties.

There's even an argument that Sony should leave it to the independent ratings boards to decide what is appropriate. Omega Labyrinth Z was denied classification by rating boards which was absolutely the correct course of action.
 
Oct 28, 2017
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I think we're not disagreeing that much. Games are pretty mainstream here - as you say, with Nintendo games and DQ being among the most popular. This is of course not true for niche games like, well, Senran Kagura, but that goes without saying. But I know people who are really into Pokémon Go, Mario Odyssey, one of my co-workers often takes her Switch to work... and well, you have the Japanese prime minister dressing as Mario at the olympics. I'm not saying idols are not popular, but being into idols is absolutely not the norm and it's not a-ok to be one of those guys who obsesses over little girls, buys dozens of CDs (which is how they top sales rankings) in order to attend hand-shake events and the like.
Being into Idol group is not that different to people being into actors lol. Like there is literally girls obsessing toward K pop actors in Korea lol. It is not such an alien thing.
 

Mzo

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Nov 30, 2017
402
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Platform holders have always had a say in what makes it to their system. If not, you'd have had the same porn games Japan was making for their various PCs on the Famicom.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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I think we're not disagreeing that much. Games are pretty mainstream here - as you say, with Nintendo games and DQ being among the most popular. This is of course not true for niche games like, well, Senran Kagura, but that goes without saying. But I know people who are really into Pokémon Go, Mario Odyssey, one of my co-workers often takes her Switch to work... and well, you have the Japanese prime minister dressing as Mario at the olympics. I'm not saying idols are not popular, but being into idols is absolutely not the norm and it's not a-ok to be one of those guys who obsesses over little girls, buys dozens of CDs (which is how they top sales rankings) in order to attend hand-shake events and the like.
Two things. (1) Otakus and creeps are different. The former can just be maniacs towards their hobbies while the latter are... creeps. It is not related to "mainstream" or not. All people on this forum are gaming otakus. (2) You assume people going to handshake events have problems but they may actually just want to express supports. I personally am a huge fan of Babymetal (not an idol group, but whatever). If I can express my support directly to them by entering ballots, I would have definitely done so. I understand that there are many creeps out there who just want to touch their idols' hands, but you can't just generalize all of them into creeps when some of them are just being otaku (ie. too emotionally invested).
 
Oct 25, 2017
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Tokyo
I think we're not disagreeing that much. Games are pretty mainstream here - as you say, with Nintendo games and DQ being among the most popular. This is of course not true for niche games like, well, Senran Kagura, but that goes without saying. But I know people who are really into Pokémon Go, Mario Odyssey, one of my co-workers often takes her Switch to work... and well, you have the Japanese prime minister dressing as Mario at the olympics. I'm not saying idols are not popular, but being into idols is absolutely not the norm and it's not a-ok to be one of those guys who obsesses over little girls, buys dozens of CDs (which is how they top sales rankings) in order to attend hand-shake events and the like.
Of course, there are degrees. The person who plays Go on commute, or has a Switch and plays a Mario game is pretty normal, just like a person who tunes into Music Station to watch an idol group perform, or adds their album to Line Music/AWA, or will check out a new drama because of a singer taking a lead role in it. The people who buy a bunch of copies of a CD to vote for a particular favorite are like people who buy gaming chairs and PS4 Pros and collector packages and more games than there are months in a year, etc - way too absorbed into their hobby.
 
Jun 20, 2018
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It really seems discussion like these on this forum always end up the same. I don't thank anyone cares about that one example people keep bringing up why it is okay for Sony to censor stuff. The discussion is so much more than that. Even my Japanese sister in law is getting worried Sony of America is going to censor her Yaoi games.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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It really seems discussion like these on this forum always end up the same. I don't thank anyone cares about that one example people keep bringing up why it is okay for Sony to censor stuff. The discussion is so much more than that. Even my Japanese sister in law is getting worried Sony of America is going to censor her Yaoi games.
There is one coming to Switch. But I forgot its name. One of my female friends is very excited about it. Edit: This one

It is pretty apparent that most people don't care about the real problem, in which only the fans of these types of games are affected.
 
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Mar 21, 2018
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oh boy this thread really devolved into the expected matters.
Indeed: It has the usual suspects jumping to the defense of sexual harassment minigames with the usual fallacies. All expected.

I am still not sure why certain men are in such a desperate need of games that depict sexual molestation of unwilling women by the player, though.

(And yes, them coming from Japan isn't actually something that improves anything, considering the massive sexual harassment problem Japan has, to the point there are (or were?) women-only trains because of all the train molesters)
 

Dice

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Oct 25, 2017
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Canada
dicesms.tumblr.com
Has anyone here discussed this with an actual woman in their lives? They've all been groped or worse after saying no. My wife has had some bad shit happen to her as a kid, and this normalizes the behavior that traumatized her. Every single woman I know has a story.

Explain this game mode to a female peer and why it's so important to keep it in the game. Let me know what they think.
Thank you for this. Men fortunately don't experience some of these problems we go through (or not nearly as often), so a lack of empathy to what women say is sadly somewhat understandable.
 
Oct 28, 2017
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There is one coming to Switch. But I forgot its name. Edit: This one

It is pretty apparent that most people don't care about the real problem, in which only the fans of these types of games are affected.
Well ERA is highly AAA oriented lol. So it is not surprising to see them dont care lol.

I am still hoping for Geten no Hana port for switch hiks
 
Oct 25, 2017
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Indonesia
There is one coming to Switch. But I forgot its name. One of my female friend is very excited about it. Edit: This one

It is pretty apparent that most people don't care about the real problem, in which only the fans of these types of games are affected.
Well ERA is highly AAA oriented lol. So it is not surprising to see them dont care lol.

I am still hoping for Geten no Hana port for switch hiks
I'm having a hard time to find a reason why people should care about some men not being able to play a game that lets you sexually harass underage girls.
 

Zelas

Banned
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Oct 25, 2017
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I’ll say when I see nothings happens to Catherine and such I’ll provably back off.

I think a big concern for a lot of people is that it’ll effect more then these types of titles. Yet again this feels like we could avoid all this if Sony would just say what these new mandates are but I’m starting to think there doing this on a case by case basis.
Are there modes dedicated to sexual assault, merely for titillation, in any version of Catherine I'm not aware of? Or any other flirtation with criminal behavior that involves minors? Are there features dedicated to adjusting the bounciness of breasts? The type of creepy content that draws Sony's eye seems easy to point out.

Considering the game wanted to present mature takes (that haven't aged well) on a variety of subjects, Hashino's own comments on views diversifying since release and implying a better attempt can be made, and then the growing LGBTQ related fan backlash to the Persona games, if anything is likely to change with the game it would be the work of Atlus not Sony.
 
Oct 26, 2017
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OH NO! They might be forced to focus on substantive elements in their games, like the real meat of the gameplay, instead of pervy ass shit. Such tragedy.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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Well ERA is highly AAA oriented lol. So it is not surprising to see them dont care lol.

I am still hoping for Geten no Hana port for switch hiks
Haha, I have absolutely no knowledge on otome or yaoi games. It is actually pretty conflicting. Being a straight male, I am not "into" these games, on the other hand, I always want to know what the female audience wants from these games as it kinda related to my dream job.
I'm having a hard time to find a reason why people should care about some men not being able to play a game that lets you sexually harass underage girls.
The policy does not only affect one game but an unknown number of games in the future across genres, and ultimately affect many developers and publishers, and it is especially difficult to those small firms.

Feel free to generalize all of these affected companies into organizations promoting child molestation. It is what many people here are doing.
 

Arthands

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Oct 26, 2017
3,227
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User Banned (1 Month): false equivalence, defending the sexualization of minors.
well a country legalizing gun possession is not the norm too but we have lots of games featuring guns.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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The Ocean
The only thing Sony really has to do is allow these reports and documentation to be done locally, instead of forcing English. That's not right or fair
Games are made available for a worldwide audience so maybe those reports are used to ensure the product is suitable for all regions. Not sure but English is a more commonly used tongue across the world than Japanese so standardisation makes sense.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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Haha, I have absolutely no knowledge on otome or yaoi games. It is actually pretty conflicting. Being a straight male, I am not "into" these games, on the other hand, I always want to know what the female audience wants from these games as it kinda related to my dream job.

The policy does not only affect one game but an unknown number of games in the future across genres, and ultimately affect many developers and publishers, and it is especially difficult to those small firms.

Feel free to generalize all of these affected companies into organizations promoting child molestation. It is what many people here are doing.
The vast majority of examples are just that. Some high school setting, genuine underage characters, or characters the game weakly tries to suggest are older but look 12 and mini-games which often amount to some sort of "resistance" on the part of the character not to have you grope them/see them undressed. What is consent m8?

Corny Mass Effect sex scenes, or some of the regular topless scenes in 18/M rated games aren't going anywhere. Conan Exiles even has a dick slider uncensored in Europe. America lost its shit over that, and that IS a case of American Puritanism worth laughing at. I think the US version of Conan is still censored.

For the most part games getting hit here contain some sort of rape/molestation/resistance in them, or it's young characters or characters that the game goes *wink wink* not young! Promise!

Sony might not be getting it perfect as of yet and if something isn't fitting into the categories above I will say let PEGI/ESRB handle it. For the most part it is utter trash getting hit.
 
Oct 27, 2017
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Do you care to elaborate on this post?
This is about what they think makes them money. They'll hit the nontraditional games even harder on censorship than the traditional ones if they came to the PS4. This has been historically true as well with other companies in the past, I don't see why it would be different now.

I'm not some anti-censorship zealot, but the way Sony is doing this seems particularly like they think they can do whatever they want. They'll ease up once other platforms do better.

At this point I think I'm done with consoles outright now- I just don't trust any of the console manufacturers anymore. They've all shown a willingness to try and force unpopular things when they can.
 
Games are made available for a worldwide audience so maybe those reports are used to ensure the product is suitable for all regions. Not sure but English is a more commonly used tongue across the world than Japanese so standardisation makes sense.
As it's been pointed out, this is impacting games that aren't releasing outside of Japan.
 
Oct 26, 2017
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opencritic.com
I'm all for these new regulations, but it's odd that Sony is doing nothing about the games that probably led them to make the change in the first place.
A number of titles, including two that I don't think I can even name, are still being sold on PSN.
 
Nov 1, 2017
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As it's been pointed out, this is impacting games that aren't releasing outside of Japan.
Plus they are a multinational company so they can afford it. Especially considering that Japan is a pretty big market. Oh and Sony is originally from Japan so...

Edit - Also it shouldn’t just be limited to Japan and Japanese. It would be amazing if they had offices all across the globe with different languages that can help them release their game on their platform. A diverse library of game is created by having diversity on the platform and that can’t happen if Sony is just going to be like, “speak English mate”.
 
Oct 31, 2017
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Even my Japanese sister in law is getting worried Sony of America is going to censor her Yaoi games.
She is a little too late for that. A good portion of those games were already being censored due to graphic sex scenes that were in the original PC versions.
 
Oct 28, 2017
4,251
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I'm having a hard time to find a reason why people should care about some men not being able to play a game that lets you sexually harass underage girls.
??? I am talking about otome game though?

Haha, I have absolutely no knowledge on otome or yaoi games. It is actually pretty conflicting. Being a straight male, I am not "into" these games, on the other hand, I always want to know what the female audience wants from these games as it kinda related to my dream job.

The policy does not only affect one game but an unknown number of games in the future across genres, and ultimately affect many developers and publishers, and it is especially difficult to those small firms.

Feel free to generalize all of these affected companies into organizations promoting child molestation. It is what many people here are doing.
Haha i am also straight male lol. But some of my favorite anime is straight otome anime like Fushugi Yuugi lol so i am okay with otome game.

Geten no Hana by Koei is soo good. U should check it. It also have nobunaga lol.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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She is a little too late for that. A good portion of those games were already being censored due to graphic sex scenes that were in the original PC versions.
Yeah but thats just the usual changes made so a game doesn't get a AO rating. Sony is censoring things things that just get a M rating or Cero C/D in Japan
 
Oct 28, 2017
4,251
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She is a little too late for that. A good portion of those games were already being censored due to graphic sex scenes that were in the original PC versions.
??? I dont think he is talking about Yaoi game but more of otome game lol as graphic yaoi hentai game is nowhere in any console platform.
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,959
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Indonesia
The policy does not only affect one game but an unknown number of games in the future across genres, and ultimately affect many developers and publishers, and it is especially difficult to those small firms.

Feel free to generalize all of these affected companies into organizations promoting child molestation. It is what many people here are doing.
??? I am talking about otome game though?
This is a thread about Shenran Kagura though.
 
Jun 20, 2018
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She is a little too late for that. A good portion of those games were already being censored due to graphic sex scenes that were in the original PC versions.
Unfortunately she does not own a PC. She did bought a switch last week. Hopefully more of the games she like will move there.
 
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