• Welcome to ResetEra 2.0! Guests should now be able to save their dark or light theme preferences, found on the left sidebar.

Senran Kagura producer: Next game may take some more time due to regulations

Status
Not open for further replies.
Oct 25, 2017
3,860
0
Worst case scenario is mid tier below Japanese games move on from their systems which is either something that'll take a long time or won't happen because they're mid tier and below and need all the sales they can get.

Most likely these devs will just apply wholesale censorship to their content which will affect all platforms which is what I'm guessing is what Sony wants here.


The vita was king of these games and was one of the lowest selling handhelds both in and out of Japan so not much
It's not going to kill PS5 overnight or anything but I feel like it shouldn't be underestimated just how much Sony platforms have benefited from the being the default platform for 99% of Japanese third party games for the last 20 years. Intentionally loosening that grip is absolutely something that could hurt them in the long run.
 
Oct 27, 2017
8,711
0
It's not going to kill PS5 overnight or anything but I feel like it shouldn't be underestimated just how much Sony platforms have benefited from the being the default platform for 99% of Japanese third party games for the last 20 years. Intentionally loosening that grip is absolutely something that could hurt them in the long run.
Playstation benefits the ecchi games, not the other way around. That's why they'll conform.
 
Oct 26, 2017
5,932
0
It's not going to kill PS5 overnight or anything but I feel like it shouldn't be underestimated just how much Sony platforms have benefited from the being the default platform for 99% of Japanese third party games for the last 20 years. Intentionally loosening that grip is absolutely something that could hurt them in the long run.
The majority of japanese third party games are not SK tier fanservice games. SR or Doa X are still extremely niche.
 

RockyMin

Banned
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,213
0
User Banned (1 month): Defending the Sexualization of Minors
Well, the game's own developers see them as children, soooo....

From the Senran Kagura New Wave official visual collection:


Quite a few characters are as young as 15 in that game, most are under 18. The 15-year-old Minori's whole gimmick is that she behaves like a 5-year-old. Tell me that isn't creepy.

Just because the localization opted not to publish their ages doesn't mean that it wasn't what the developers intended.
Well in Japan, the culture is different. At the end of the day, those ages are just numbers in a manual and these are actually fictional characters that don't really exist. And I've known people in their 20s who act like 5 year olds. When I say they aren't children, I'm saying that they don't look like pre-pubescent elementary school kids. That's what it sounds like to me when people call them "children".
 
Oct 29, 2017
381
0
Worst case scenario is mid tier below Japanese games move on from their systems which is either something that'll take a long time or won't happen because they're mid tier and below and need all the sales they can get.

Most likely these devs will just apply wholesale censorship to their content which will affect all platforms which is what I'm guessing is what Sony wants here.
Yeah, at the end of day, this is really only affecting small devs that'll be obliged to follow the platform's policy no matter what.

Of course there won't be any big financial consequences for this but they also aren’t gaining anything from this. All that this has lead to is what feels like bullying niche developers and something that results in playstation users ending up with a censored version of a game. Considering the fact that this policy seems to have just become a thing like 2 months ago and is a complete mess I could see them quietly walking back on this with just a no touching mini game policy remaining maybe
I think what's happening here is that Sony is trying to control their corporate image by cutting ties with semi-porn games. So I wouldn't say Sony isn't getting anything from it. I don't like about Sony keeping a radio silence about the policy change, though.

No it wouldn't. Because there's no "children" in the games. Just because you and a few others insist on seeing the characters a certain way, doesn't mean everyone sees them that way.
You kidding, right?
 
Oct 27, 2017
8,711
0
Well in Japan, the culture is different. At the end of the day, those ages are just numbers in a manual and these are actually fictional characters that don't really exist. And I've known people in their 20s who act like 5 year olds. When I say they aren't children, I'm saying that they don't look like pre-pubescent elementary school kids. That's what it sounds like to me when people call them "children".
Lol @ the culture is different. There is certainly a big chunk of people in the West who love that shit, too, even if it's taboo. Your "just numbers" argument actually undermines the whole defense of 20-somethings (or 1000 year old dragons) that looks like they are 10. We know why they look like that. We know who that is for. But I guess it's okay to draw what appears to be a little child in a sexualized way as long as you say they're not a child, right?

Do the people in their 20s who act like 5 year olds do it in the most literal way possible for the purpose of sexual fetishization?

Society changes. The cutlure of Japan can change, too. Believe it or not, even foctional characters can shape views of other people and thst can translate to how people see women and girls IRL.
 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2017
3,913
0
I think what's happening here is that Sony is trying to control their corporate image by cutting ties with semi-porn games. So I wouldn't say Sony isn't getting anything from it. I don't like about Sony keeping a radio silence about the policy change, though.
But what corperate image. I have never read or heard anyone looking at Sony a certain way because of fanservicy niche games. Eapecially when the vast majority of people not interested in these games will never know they even exist. Hell this controversy around the policy is putting more of a spotlight on each game affected than the game just releasing normally would have ever gotten.
 

RockyMin

Banned
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,213
0
Lol @ the culture is different. There is certainly a big chunk of people in the West who love that shit, too, even if it's taboo.

Do the people in their 20s who act like 5 year olds do it in the most literal way possible for the purpose of sexual fetishization?

Society changes. The cutlure of Japan can change, too.
Japan isn't changing. Sony's recent censorship issues stem from the fact that they moved their Playstation headquarters to the US.
 
Oct 27, 2017
8,711
0
But what corperate image. I have never read or heard anyone looking at Sony a certain way because of fanservicy niche games. Eapecially when the vast majority of people not interested in these games will never know they even exist.
Vita has that stigma.

No, I'm not. It really seems to me that the ones who are being so vocal about these characters being "children" are being ignorant.
So like, you just ignore my reply to the contrary?

Posted on previous page:

From the Senran Kagura New Wave official visual collection:
Hanzo Academy

Asuka - 90F 16 years old

Ikaruga - 93G 18 years old

Katsuragi - 95H 17 years old

Yagyuu - 85E 15 years old

Hibari - 80E 15 years old

Homura Crimson Squad (ex Hebijo)

Homura - 87E 16 years old

Yomi - 95H 16 years old

Hikage - 85E 17 years old

Mirai - 62A 15 years old

Haruka - 99I (as in after H) 18 years old

Gessen Girls' Academy

Yumi - 92G 17 years old

Murakumo - 96H 17 years old

Yozakura - 90H 16 years old

Shiki - 95I 15 years old

Minori - 86G 15 years old

Hebijo Clandestine something something

Miyabi - 90G 20 years old

Murasaki - 105K (biggest Senran Kagura bust period, including Daidouji and all 50+ New Wave girls) 16 years old

Imu - 88E 21 years old

Ryobi - 69AAA (concave?), 95I transformed 15 years old

Ryona - 98I 15 years old

Other Characters

Daijouji - 100H 25 years old

Rin - 97H 26 years old

Kiriya (Hanzo instructor) - 40 years old (bust info unavailable)

Murasame (Ikaruga's brother) - 22 years old

Ayame (girl in the store) - 82E 16 years old
Quite a few characters are as young as 15 in that game, most are under 18. The 15-year-old Minori's whole gimmick is that she behaves like a 5-year-old. Tell me that isn't creepy.

Just because the localization opted not to publish their ages doesn't mean that it wasn't what the developers intended.

Japan isn't changing. Sony's recent censorship issues stem from the fact that they moved their Playstation headquarters to the US.
Well maybe Japan should change.
 
Apr 19, 2018
144
0
No, I'm not. It really seems to me that the ones who are being so vocal about these characters being "children" are being ignorant.
child
/tʃʌɪld/
noun
noun: child; plural noun: children
a young human being below the age of puberty or below the legal age of majority.

Talking about ignorance lmao
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,614
0
ah, i see we've reached the "she's actually a 1000 year old dragon" and "the age of consent is 13 in japan" stage of the discussion
Of course there won't be any big financial consequences for this but they also aren’t gaining anything from this. All that this has lead to is what feels like bullying niche developers and something that results in playstation users ending up with a censored version of a game. Considering the fact that this policy seems to have just become a thing like 2 months ago and is a complete mess I could see them quietly walking back on this with just a no touching mini game policy remaining maybe
why does it being a "niche developer" matter? stop trying to paint them as the "poor widdle developer uwu". these are grown ass people putting underage girls in their games for you to grope. these devs need to be bullied more, not less, regardless of their size. painting this as the big mega corporation going after the little guy is extremely disingenuous.
 
Oct 30, 2017
11,744
0
DFW, Texas
Quite a few characters are as young as 15 in that game, most are under 18. The 15-year-old Minori's whole gimmick is that she behaves like a 5-year-old. Tell me that isn't creepy.

Just because the localization opted not to publish their ages doesn't mean that it wasn't what the developers intended.
Wait they list the bust size of underage kids?
 
Oct 27, 2017
8,711
0
ah, i see we've reached the "she's actually a 1000 year old dragon" and "the age of consent is 13 in japan" stage of the discussion

why does it being a "niche developer" matter? stop trying to paint them as the "poor widdle developer uwu". these are grown ass people putting underage girls in their games for you to grope. these devs need to be bullied more, not less, regardless of their size. painting this as the big mega corporation going after the little guy is extremely disingenuous.
Exactly. These people are hacks. This shit is a grift. The games aren't of good quality.

If anything people should be upset about how easily they are manipulated by a drawing of tits.

Wait they list the bust size of underage kids?
Pretty gross, right? All i did was copy/paste
 
Oct 27, 2017
10,090
0
I don’t particuarly care about SK but I don’t like the idea of Sony going over the ratings board and the making them give a report in English.


I also admit I’m worried stuff like Catherine or Dragon’s Crown being affected. I do like my fan service every now and then.
 
Nov 1, 2017
402
0
Exactly. These people are hacks. This shit is a grift. The games aren't of good quality.

If anything people should be upset about how easily they are manipulated by a drawing of tits.


Pretty gross, right? All i did was copy/paste
The issue many people here have is not with the loli dragon sh*t, but with the potential to affect games like Catherine with characters that actually look and act like grown woman. I’m not down for some sexual harassment minigame, but stuff like nudity and what not shouldn’t be censored (just like with western games like RDR and cyberpunk)
 
Oct 31, 2017
5,221
0
It's not going to kill PS5 overnight or anything but I feel like it shouldn't be underestimated just how much Sony platforms have benefited from the being the default platform for 99% of Japanese third party games for the last 20 years. Intentionally loosening that grip is absolutely something that could hurt them in the long run.
I sorta see it but not really. Sony's never really had that sort of grip hold in the first place as there was plenty of exclusive titles and franchise to the DS and 3DS they were dominant but they didn't get everything until fairly recently. Frankly any Japanese publisher interested in western sales is going to make games on that platform and those are the games Sony is interested in. At most this is really the worst case scenario you'd get a return to something like the DS where Sony got most things but not everything.

Generally Nintendo stand's to gain but Sony doesn't stand to lose much through this.
 
Dec 15, 2017
1,382
0
Whatever man, Do you also think that anyone who enjoys shooting people in the head in games like CoD and GTA are really serial killers? I'm done here.
Ahh. The "whatabout violence" response, like clockwork. Don't bail out with something so predictable. You've chosen your hill. Let's see where this goes.
 
Oct 27, 2017
8,711
0
Like. Bust size. Of 15 and 16 year old girls?


And those are official dimensions given by the developer or is that just made up estimations by the players?
That's from an official visual guide.

The issue many people here have is not with the loli dragon sh*t, but with the potential to affect games like Catherine with characters that actually look and act like grown woman. I’m not down for some sexual harassment minigame, but stuff like nudity and what not shouldn’t be censored (just like with western games like RDR and cyberpunk)
We'll have to see. I mean one of the most popular games this gen is The Witcher 3 and it's full of nudity and sex. But note that the criticism of TW3 for its depiction of those things wasn't as severe as it was in The Witcher 2 for its "sexual conquest trading cards."

Context, framing and messaging are important when it comes to healthy depictions of sex.
 

Tzarscream

Banned
Member
Oct 28, 2017
788
0
If you want a horny game, and why not everyone likes trash sometimes, why not make the girls 20 and draw them like how a 20 year old looks?

Like a 20 year old stills looks really young. But Japan has fallen down this horrible hole where they draw underage looking girls with massive tits and it becomes a chimera of maturity and innocence that flirts with a very problematic line.

Stop fucking around experimenting with taboo stuff and just stick to the rules Japan.
 
Oct 25, 2017
970
0
how about the creation of video games that explore sexuality in a more nuanced context than groping minigames can provide? maybe have characters who are adults explore intimacy in a more natural and consensual way?

i'd really prefer it if the most common expression of sexuality in media wasn't inherently non-consensual and about twisting non-sexual situations into vehicles for sexual content without sexual context - to give an example, i particularly loathe how "the pervert" character is used as vehicle to drive sexual interactions against the will of other characters. a much better alternative would be to just let adult characters explore their sexuality on their own!

there could even be more sexual content targeted at people of more sexual orientations if it was explored in a healthy and direct manner and wasn't mostly filtered through the awful frameworks most commonly used to smuggle sexual content into situations where it is actively detracting
 
Last edited:
Nov 10, 2017
1,054
0
Perhaps start by making a game about adult characters. Does that even make much of a difference when the characters are so far removed from what humans look like anyway?
 
Oct 27, 2017
8,711
0
If you want a horny game, and why not everyone likes trash sometimes, why not make the girls 20 and draw them like how a 20 year old looks?

Like a 20 year old stills looks really young. But Japan has fallen down this horrible hole where they draw underage looking girls with massive tits and it becomes a chimera of maturity and innocence that flirts with a very problematic line.

Stop fucking around experimenting with taboo stuff and just stick to the rules Japan.
Apparently women are gross when they get old. And apparently "old" is still pretty young in Japan.

how about the creation of video games that explore sexuality in a more nuanced context than groping minigames can provide? maybe have characters who are adults explore intimacy in a more natural and consensual way?

i'd really prefer it if the most common expression of sexuality in media wasn't inherently non-consensual and about twisting non-sexual situations into vehicles for sexual content without sexual context - to give an example, i particularly loathe how "the pervert" character is used as vehicle to drive sexual interactions against the will of other characters

there could even be more sexual content targeted at people of more sexual orientations if it was explored in a healthy and direct manner and wasn't mostly filtered through the awful frameworks most commonly used to smuggle sexual content into situations where it is actively detracting
Amen.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,860
0
Playstation benefits the ecchi games, not the other way around. That's why they'll conform.
I think you might be overestimating how reliant they are on Sony. Senran Kagura did better on Vita than 3DS but not to the extent that means they can't drop Sony, especially when the policies are hurting their bottom line.

D3 Publisher has already moved to Switch for Omega Labyrinth.

The majority of japanese third party games are not SK tier fanservice games. SR or Doa X are still extremely niche.
Sure, and I'm maybe I'm looking at it a bit too broadly but having a massive amount of niche third party games as exclusives has kind of been a large part of Playstation's appeal in Japan and they've had it locked down so much that third parties in many cases haven't even considering their competitor. Nippon Ichi have branched out to Switch for reasons unrelated to these policies but it was somewhat illuminating that they said they didn't even know which buttons were used for confirm and cancel on Nintendo platforms.

I sorta see it but not really. Sony's never really had that sort of grip hold in the first place as there was plenty of exclusive titles and franchise to the DS and 3DS they were dominant but they didn't get everything until fairly recently. Frankly any Japanese publisher interested in western sales is going to make games on that platform and those are the games Sony is interested in. At most this is really the worst case scenario you'd get a return to something like the DS where Sony got most things but not everything.

Generally Nintendo stand's to gain but Sony doesn't stand to lose much through this.
You're probably right, on a global level it won't make any real difference. I was thinking primarily in terms of the Japanese market where Vita/PS4 saw a lot more releases than the 3DS which is largely what sustained the business there.
 
Nov 1, 2017
402
0
If you want a horny game, and why not everyone likes trash sometimes, why not make the girls 20 and draw them like how a 20 year old looks?

Like a 20 year old stills looks really young. But Japan has fallen down this horrible hole where they draw underage looking girls with massive tits and it becomes a chimera of maturity and innocence that flirts with a very problematic line.

Stop fucking around experimenting with taboo stuff and just stick to the rules Japan.
Not defending pedophilia or anything here, but that last bit is a bit vague since whose rules should they be following? Some countries like Australia have their age of consent at 16 surprisingly, so should they have their characters age be minimum 16 in some countries and 18 everywhere else?
 
Oct 27, 2017
8,711
0
Not defending pedophilia or anything here, but that last bit is a bit vague since whose rules should they be following? Some countries like Australia have their age of consent at 16 surprisingly, so should they have their characters age be minimum 16 in some countries and 18 everywhere else?
You know, i always thought 18 was too young. I mean you're still in gradeschool.

Like, 18 is just as gross as 17 if you're in your 30s and up. 18 year olds still have their baby face. And there's a reason "barely legal" appeals to perverts. It's as close to a kid as they can get and that's what they are seeking. That's why "teen" is such a massively popular search criteria on porn sites.

I get that we need to draw a line somewhere but I think it should be 21 for pornography.
 
Oct 31, 2017
5,221
0
I think you might be overestimating how reliant they are on Sony. Senran Kagura did better on Vita than 3DS but not to the extent that means they can't drop Sony, especially when the policies are hurting their bottom line.

D3 Publisher has already moved to Switch for Omega Labyrinth.



Sure, and I'm maybe I'm looking at it a bit too broadly but having a massive amount of niche third party games as exclusives has kind of been a large part of Playstation's appeal in Japan and they've had it locked down so much that third parties in many cases haven't even considering their competitor. Nippon Ichi have branched out to Switch for reasons unrelated to these policies but it was somewhat illuminating that they said they didn't even know which buttons were used for confirm and cancel on Nintendo platforms.



You're probably right, on a global level it won't make any real difference. I was thinking primarily in terms of the Japanese market where Vita/PS4 saw a lot more releases than the 3DS which is largely what sustained the business there.
This is true but Sony's Japanese market is heading for a contraction that even they are almost certainly aware of here they're overall lack of trying in the market recently and why this stuff is processed in the US. There's no Vita to ease the transition into next gen. Even in absolute best case scenario they retain the appeal they have now in Japan which isn't great.

Their goal I imagine is to engineer the Japanese support they receive into something as palatable as possible to the west. Japan is a lost cause but western appealing Japanese content is not.
 
Nov 1, 2017
402
0
You know, i always thought 18 was too young. I mean you're still in gradeschool.

Like, 18 is just as gross as 17 if you're in your 30s and up. 18 year olds still have their baby face.

I get that we need to draw a line somewhere but I think it should be 21 for pornography.
That’s fair considering I’m very much in the same both as fair as woman that I find attractive goes. They need to be and act like they are at the very least 20. God this whole legal age thing is annoying cause everything, including the age to drink is different from place to place. Wish we could just get one universal rule. I think 20 should be considered legal but at the same time, most first world countries it’s like 18 so maybe that should be considered the right age as more people agree on that?
 

Tzarscream

Banned
Member
Oct 28, 2017
788
0
Not defending pedophilia or anything here, but that last bit is a bit vague since whose rules should they be following? Some countries like Australia have their age of consent at 16 surprisingly, so should they have their characters age be minimum 16 in some countries and 18 everywhere else?
The age of consent is different to age of sufficient for porn.

Consent and sex, should be love or affection between two consenting people. So that two 16 year olds can have sex without it being illegal. I don’t think the law was put in place so that 25+ year olds can get down with a 16 year old.

When you’re talking about porn, or obvious titilation, there should be some standards. Those standards should be when Someone is looking at porn They shouldn’t have a part of my brain going “yo she looks like a child”.
 

Spaltazar

Banned
Member
Oct 28, 2017
754
0
User Banned (1 month): Rationalizing sexualized depictions of minors
this whole censorship thing is stupid. people that weren't playing / interested in these games before will not be interested / playing them now just because there is a bit more covered up life and hometown. it only annoys those who are fans of this series in the first place
 
Oct 27, 2017
446
0
how about the creation of video games that explore sexuality in a more nuanced context than groping minigames can provide? maybe have characters who are adults explore intimacy in a more natural and consensual way?

i'd really prefer it if the most common expression of sexuality in media wasn't inherently non-consensual and about twisting non-sexual situations into vehicles for sexual content without sexual context - to give an example, i particularly loathe how "the pervert" character is used as vehicle to drive sexual interactions against the will of other characters. a much better alternative would be to just let adult characters explore their sexuality on their own!

there could even be more sexual content targeted at people of more sexual orientations if it was explored in a healthy and direct manner and wasn't mostly filtered through the awful frameworks most commonly used to smuggle sexual content into situations where it is actively detracting
I absolutely agree.

But.

Platform holders and Twitch are notoriously allergic to things that actually explore sexuality in meaningful ways. It’s fucking depressing and tbh one of my worries about this policy is that it will push developers who are barking up that tree even further into obscurity.
 
Oct 27, 2017
8,711
0
That’s fair considering I’m very much in the same both as fair as woman that I find attractive goes. They need to be and act like they are at the very least 20. God this whole legal age thing is annoying cause everything, including the age to drink is different from place to place. Wish we could just get one universal rule. I think 20 should be considered legal but at the same time, most first world countries it’s like 18 so maybe that should be considered the right age as more people agree on that?
How crazy is it that in America you can't drink until you're 21 but you can fuck an old dude on film for mass distribution and take a bullet as a murder machine at 18. They trust you are old enough to make those far more life-altering decisions as a teen but you still gotta stay out of the bars.

Fucking mental.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.