Senran Kagura producer: Next game may take some more time due to regulations

[casiopao]

Like. Bust size. Of 15 and 16 year old girls?


And those are official dimensions given by the developer or is that just made up estimations by the players?

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That is like...... things that have happen since the very first popular dating sims like Tokimeki Memorial released in 1994.

Listing the whole size have been the thing like forever in japan. It is the whole gravure idol culture.

I mean, even Dead Or Alive, King of Fighters, Love Plus list all of the girls body size.

 

[OldMuffin]

The age of consent is different to age of sufficient for porn.

Consent and sex, should be love or affection between two consenting people. So that two 16 year olds can have sex without it being illegal. I don't think the law was put in place so that 25+ year olds can get down with a 16 year old.

When you're talking about porn, or obvious titilation, there should be some standards. Those standards should be when Someone is looking at porn They shouldn't have a part of my brain going "yo she looks like a child".

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Fair. Although I have a different discussion when it comes to the whole 25+ going out with 16 year old, concerning the concept of "actual love" (not lust), but that's not a discussion for here.

 

[OldMuffin]

How crazy is it that in America you can't drink until you're 21 but you can fuck an old dude on film for mass distribution and take a bullet as a murder machine at 18.

Fucking mental.

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I was thinking of a meme based on that thought whilst typing my last reply.

 

[Coyote Starrk]

That is like...... things that have happen since the very first popular dating sims like Tokimeki Memorial released in 1994.

Listing the whole size have been the thing like forever in japan. It is the whole gravure idol culture.

I mean, even Dead Or Alive, King of Fighters, Love Plus list all of the girls body size.

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(I don't really play those kinds of games so I had no idea)

 

[texhnolyze]

All this age discussions are basically useless because the core of the problem here is not the age, but the act.

Judging by their expressions, you are basically raping the girls in these games.

how about the creation of video games that explore sexuality in a more nuanced context than groping minigames can provide? maybe have characters who are adults explore intimacy in a more natural and consensual way?

i'd really prefer it if the most common expression of sexuality in media wasn't inherently non-consensual and about twisting non-sexual situations into vehicles for sexual content without sexual context - to give an example, i particularly loathe how "the pervert" character is used as vehicle to drive sexual interactions against the will of other characters. a much better alternative would be to just let adult characters explore their sexuality on their own!

there could even be more sexual content targeted at people of more sexual orientations if it was explored in a healthy and direct manner and wasn't mostly filtered through the awful frameworks most commonly used to smuggle sexual content into situations where it is actively detracting

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The people who defend this shit just don't understand. They have no clue that there's a difference between a game having nudity or even sex in a more nuanced context and a game having mechanics that let you touch/tear girls' outfit apart.

They really have no clue.

 

[RPGamer92]

Yes instead of release it later on PS4, they should fuck over the Playstation community. Nice console warrior bullshit.

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I think Sonys already done that well enough.

 

[HotHamBoy]

I was thinking of a meme based on that thought whilst typing my last reply.

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America is totally fucked up when it comes to when and where you are considered an adult.

All this age discussions are basically useless because the core of the problem here is not the age, but the act.

Judging by their expressions, you are basically raping the girls in these games.


The people who defend this shit just don't understand. They have no clue that there's a difference between a game having nudity or even sex in a more nuanced context and a game having mechanics that let you touch/tear girls' outfit apart.

They really have no clue.

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Agreed. Context, framing and messaging. That's the core problem, not simply erotica. I keep saying it!

 

[Sanox]

Vita has that stigma.

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Yes the system because Sony said fuck the Vita and niche devs were the only thing keeping it alive

Just because the localization opted not to publish their ages doesn't mean that it wasn't what the developers intended

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Really don't wanna get into this discussion but I don't think creators intend anything with the ages when looking at stuff like this. Characters are designed and then get a age slapped on that works with the setting without putting much thought into it as opposed to some slice of life series where a character is chosen to be 16 because of the story the author wants to tell and then said 16 year old character is designed with that in mind.

 

[HotHamBoy]

Yes the system because Sony said fuck the Vita and niche devs were the only thing keeping it alive



Really don't wanna get into this discussion but I don't think creators intend anything with the ages when looking at stuff like this. Characters are designed and then get a age slapped on that works with the setting without putting much thought into it as opposed to some slice of life series where a character is chosen to be 16 because of the story the author wants to tell and then said 16 year old character is designed with that in mind.

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That's insanely naive

 

[Oregano]

This is true but Sony's Japanese market is heading for a contraction that even they are almost certainly aware of here they're overall lack of trying in the market recently and why this stuff is processed in the US. There's no Vita to ease the transition into next gen. Even in absolute best case scenario they retain the appeal they have now in Japan which isn't great.

Their goal I imagine is to engineer the Japanese support they receive into something as palatable as possible to the west. Japan is a lost cause but western appealing Japanese content is not.

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I can definitely see that. It just strikes me as something that could be a misfire right now considering that Switch is already seen as a more viable alternative than any Nintendo system has been.

My mind is on publishers like Compile Heart who are still PS exclusive right now and have been on multiple games by these policies. If this enough to push them to go multiplatform or even put out games that aren't available on Playstation that seems like a loss.

I feel like if they did this 5 or 10 years ago it would have literally had no effect. Doing it now isn't going to damage them in any significant way but it seems like it will make things much more difficult for themselves domestically.

 

[OldMuffin]

America is totally fucked up when it comes to when and where you are considered an adult.


Agreed. Context, framing and messaging. That's the core problem, not simply erotica. I keep saying it!

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Well I don't think any civi should get their hands on guns but hey here you'll are.... yay

 

[casiopao]

(I don't really play those kinds of games so I had no idea)

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..... you dont play Dead or Alive fighting game? I mean in Japan this is not a strange thing as disturbing as it is.

Also..... talking about Real life gravure idol listing body size.... u do know Sony literally had its hand on idol agency which explicitly tell the body size of the idols there.

 

[Gold Arsene]

Honestly at this point I say just lock the thread.(not trying to backseat mod it's just how I feel.)

We're just going to argue the same points over and over again with no one changing there mind until they start handing out bans and eventually close the thread that's happened a million times before.

I don't like the idea of Sony having say above the ratting boards because I worry this is going to go beyond niche tiddie games.

But frankly there just isn't anything to be done right now. Sony probably won't budge unless they see this is hurting them(which lets be real unless they really do start targeting more heavy hitters they probably won't.)

And the devs will either alter their content to get on PlayStation or just move to PC and Nintendo.

 

[Hope]

I think Sonys already done that well enough.

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I totally agree it's dumb on sonys part but it's not the right way to get the games of the platform entirely.

 

[Coyote Starrk]

..... you dont play Dead or Alive fighting game? I mean in Japan this is not a strange thing as disturbing as it is.

Also..... talking about Real life gravure idol listing body size.... u do know Sony literally had its hand on idol agency which explicitly tell the body size of the idols there.

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I don't play fighting games in general. The only fighting game I have actually sat down and learned to play in the last 10 years is DBZ: Fighterz. And thats just because I love DBZ and my friends play it. Fighting games have just never really been my thing.


But yeah the whole underage bust size thing is just......gross.

 

[Choppasmith]

That is like...... things that have happen since the very first popular dating sims like Tokimeki Memorial released in 1994.

Listing the whole size have been the thing like forever in japan. It is the whole gravure idol culture.

I mean, even Dead Or Alive, King of Fighters, Love Plus list all of the girls body size.

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I don't know about Dead or Alive or Love Plus, but with KoF, at least the sizes are sane and seem realistically thought out and always struck me as a little trivia tidbit like height and weight (KoF XIV even seemed to drop them completely). The SK Bust Sizes listed on the previous page just have this willy-nilly process of "the bigger the better, but we can't have them all be the same size soo Triple G cup for her and I cup for her. YAY variety!"

 

[OldMuffin]

Honestly at this point I say just lock the thread.(not trying to backseat mod it's just how I feel.)

We're just going to argue the same points over and over again with no one changing there mind until they start handing out bans and eventually close the thread that's happened a million times before.

I don't like the idea of Sony having say above the ratting boards because I worry this is going to go beyond niche tiddie games.

But frankly there just isn't anything to be done right now. Sony probably won't budge unless they see this is hurting them(which lets be real unless they really do start targeting more heavy hitters they probably won't.)

And the devs will either alter their content to get on PlayStation or just move to PC and Nintendo.

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*and ms. Probably not going to happen, but if there's a snow balls chance in hell that the sort of games that are getting the ban hammer can make that platform popular in Japan, I would like to see that happen. Mostly not from an "xbot" fanboy standpoint but because I like seeing competition. Best way to keep everyone in check so that we can get stuff that everyone cares about like refunds, crossplay and better customer support in general in the future.

 

[Gold Arsene]

Edit:actually I really don't want to argue over this.

 

[Sylmaron]

I'm glad Sony stepped up. These games are super gross.

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This.

 

[OldMuffin]

Edit:actually I really don't want to argue over this.

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Good move, I caught it just before you removed it and oh boy would that have created a completely different type of discussion that wouldn't have gone well (not like this is going well either)

 

[casiopao]

I don't know about Dead or Alive or Love Plus, but with KoF, at least the sizes are sane and seem realistically thought out and always struck me as a little trivia tidbit like height and weight (KoF XIV even seemed to drop them completely). The SK Bust Sizes listed on the previous page just have this willy-nilly process of "the bigger the better, but we can't have them all be the same size soo Triple G cup for her and I cup for her. YAY variety!"

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............ KoF...... normal bust size. Gulp......

Those 3 bust is soo huge that it make watermelon ashamed lol.

I don't play fighting games in general. The only fighting game I have actually sat down and learned to play in the last 10 years is DBZ: Fighterz. And thats just because I love DBZ and my friends play it. Fighting games have just never really been my thing.


But yeah the whole underage bust size thing is just......gross.

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Maybe if fighting game is not your jam. Some popular game like Fate Stay Night whole franchise list all the female character body size.

 

[Coyote Starrk]

............ KoF...... normal bust size. Gulp......

Those 3 bust is soo huge that it make watermelon ashamed lol.



Maybe if fighting game is not your jam. Some popular game like Fate Stay Night whole franchise list all the female character body size.

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Why is listing the bust size even a thing? I mean its obviously not done in western games. Why is it a thing in Japan?

 

[Gold Arsene]

Good move, I caught it just before you removed it and oh boy would that have created a completely different type of discussion that wouldn't have gone well (not like this is going well either)

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Yeah I realized as I was posting it would just make things worse.

 

[Xenosaga]

Why is listing the bust size even a thing? I mean its obviously not done in western games. Why is it a thing in Japan?

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because it might be important when you pick your waifu?
I personally don't care but some do care about the cup sizes and such.

 

[Coyote Starrk]

because it might be important when you pick your waifu?
I personally don't care but some do care about the cup sizes and such.

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I can't tell if you are joking or not.

 

[Gold Arsene]

Why is listing the bust size even a thing? I mean its obviously not done in western games. Why is it a thing in Japan?

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Two answers come to mind.

One is some people simply like breasts, big ones in particular.(and believe it or not quite a lot of people don't care about it being realistic.)

The second more serious option is I notice Japanese stat charts tend to be very specific in terms of measurements. Hence exact height, weight, and blood type.

I just assume it falls in with that.

 

[Ac30]

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Damn, I love clickhole

 

[Tzarscream]

I can't tell if you are joking or not.

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He's not

 

[Thorn]

Two answers come to mind.

One is some people simply like breasts, big ones in particular.(and believe it or not quite a lot of people don't care about it being realistic.)

The second more serious option is I notice Japanese stat charts tend to be very specific in terms of measurements. Hence exact height, weight, and blood type.

I just assume it falls in with that.

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Japan loves Blood Type personality readings.

 

[Coyote Starrk]

Japan loves Blood Type personality readings.

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That I did know from watching various anime.

 

[casiopao]

Why is listing the bust size even a thing? I mean its obviously not done in western games. Why is it a thing in Japan?

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Japanese fans take detail really serious lol.

They literally make a whole set of data for the character they create. Height, weight, blood type, b/w/h, hobby, fav food, hated food, etc.

Again. Japan had this culture being grown with manga, anime, gaming to the whole idol, gravure idol where they are listing the whole detail of the person. So it is not surprising it show up on all their games.

 

[Coyote Starrk]

Japanese fans take detail really serious lol.

They literally make a whole set of data for the character they create. Height, weight, blood type, b/w/h, hobby, fav food, hated food, etc.

Again. Japan had this culture being grown with manga, anime, gaming to the whole idol, gravure idol where they are listing the whole detail of the person. So it is not surprising it show up on all their games.

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Well today I learned something new. Thanks! Sorry for the questions btw.

 

[Deleted member 888]

Honestly at this point I say just lock the thread.(not trying to backseat mod it's just how I feel.)

We're just going to argue the same points over and over again with no one changing there mind until they start handing out bans and eventually close the thread that's happened a million times before.

I don't like the idea of Sony having say above the ratting boards because I worry this is going to go beyond niche tiddie games.

But frankly there just isn't anything to be done right now. Sony probably won't budge unless they see this is hurting them(which lets be real unless they really do start targeting more heavy hitters they probably won't.)

And the devs will either alter their content to get on PlayStation or just move to PC and Nintendo.

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Here in Europe, Omega Labyrinth Z was given a PEGI 18 rating for sexual content, although a physical UK launch had already been scrapped after the Video Standards Council (VSC) refused a certificate for a UK boxed release back in March.

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Numerous scenes deemed problematic within the game involved the undressing and sexual stimulation of the game's young-looking characters in various settings.

"The player touches certain points on a female character's body to arouse them," the VSC noted of one mini-game. "A successful action will activate a 'shame break' where parts of their clothing come off revealing more of their bodies.

"The player places honey on the girls' bodies," the VSC noted of another challenge. "A fantastical dog-like creature then proceeds to lick the honey off their bodies which causes them to become aroused. Like the previous mini-game, when they reach a certain level of arousal parts of their clothing fall off or vanish. As the dog licks at the honey, the girls respond with sexualised language."

But the main sticking point was the young age of the characters in question.

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"The game is explicit in its setting within a 'school' environment and the majority of the characters are young girls - one child is referred to as being a 'first year' student and is seen holding a teddy bear," the VSC concluded. "The game clearly promotes the sexualisation of children via the sexual interaction between the game player and the female characters. The style of the game is such that it will attract an audience below the age of 18."

What feels odd is that while the VSC's ruling was slapped down in March, PEGI's own classification for European release elsewhere still stood. Still stands, even. And it's only now - today - that PQube has announced it will not release the game in the West at all because PlayStation itself intervened.

"It is with sadness that we announce that the game is cancelled on both platforms [PS4 and Vita] and all Western regions permanently," PQube wrote on Twitter, attaching a further statement as an image. "We will not comment further on this matter. Thank you for your support."

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Source: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...-launch-of-adult-anime-game-omega-labyrinth-z

Sony operates in the UK, some countries are starting to look into this stuff as well.

 

[Xenosaga]

I can't tell if you are joking or not.

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I mean there is this famous Soul Calibur picture

Spoiler: nsfw

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/9c/85/f6/9c85f6382c5d9d3d0076c7bc511f8d7f.jpg

for many fans stuff like character's age, height, breast/hip size, hobby, likes/dislikes, bloodtype are important.

 

[mute]

Just make it Switch exclusive then.

 

[casiopao]

Well today I learned something new. Thanks! Sorry for the questions btw.

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Np lol. Just giving some info lol.^_^

 

[Inuhanyou]

So far, Sony have said virtually nothing about their censorship regulations, or their official stance and that needs to change. Unless they are gonna regulate Mortal kombat as well?

Its worse when their competition doesnt censor those types of things in the first place.

Consumers have a right to know what criteria Sony has for regulating games. If its about trying to 'protect minors' by regulating 'underage content'. Say that. If its about trying to regulate all sexual content, say that. But saying nothing is garbage.

 

[Deleted member 5028]

Don't get why some are uptight about comically absurd bouncing anime boobs in Japanese games, but actual nudity in western ones is ok? And they sure are not always for plot or some deeper connection between characters. Let them make the nonsense games they want I say.

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Usually because these games involve minors, point to a western game that sexualised minors they're okay with please? You can't.

 

[Deleted member 135]

Bad look for Sony

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The fact that these "games" even exist is a bad look.

 

[Ximonz]

..... you dont play Dead or Alive fighting game? I mean in Japan this is not a strange thing as disturbing as it is.

Also..... talking about Real life gravure idol listing body size.... u do know Sony literally had its hand on idol agency which explicitly tell the body size of the idols there.

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people here always say cultural difference is not a viable argument when a lot of them clearly have no idea about other countries.

as huge as idol culture in Japan would probably consider to be national wide creeps and needs to be changed like us Americans.

 

[Gold Arsene]

Source: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...-launch-of-adult-anime-game-omega-labyrinth-z

Sony operates in the UK, some countries are starting to look into this stuff as well.

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What does this have to do with what I posted?

 

[Deleted member 888]

What does this have to do with what I posted?

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I don't like the idea of Sony having say above the ratting boards because I worry this is going to go beyond niche tiddie games.

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A ratings board in the UK banned that game. Sexualization of minors was deemed unsuitable for certificate.

The VSC Rating Board is an Administrator of the PEGI age rating system which is used in over 30 countries throughout Europe. In 2012 the PEGI system was incorporated into UK law and the VSC was appointed as the statutory body responsible for the age rating of video games in the UK using the PEGI system. In the UK, PEGI 12, 16 and 18 rated games are legally enforceable and cannot be sold to anyone under those respective ages.

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The game is explicit in its setting within a "school" environment and the majority of the characters are young girls - one child is referred to as being a "first year" student and is seen holding a teddy bear. The game clearly promotes the sexualisation of children via the sexual interaction between the game player and the female characters. The style of the game is such that it will attract an audience below the age of 18.

There is a serious danger that impressionable people, i.e. children and young people viewing the game would conclude that the sexual activity represented normal sexual behaviour. There is a constant theme of sexual innuendo and activity throughout the game that suggests behaviour likely to normalise sexual activity towards children. As a means of reward gained by successfully navigating the game, the player has the means to sexually stimulate the female characters by using either a hand held remote device or touch screen software.

The VSC Rating Board believes this content in a game, which would have strong appeal to non-adult players, is an issue which would be unacceptable to the majority of UK consumers and, more importantly, has the potential to be significantly harmful in terms of the social and moral development of younger people in particular.

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[rochellepaws]

For all the noise about this I'm still yet to see Sony censor anything that isn't either sexualising a minor or promoting sexual assault and I'm glad they've taken action on those accounts. The defenders keep mentioning Catherine as a sort of tipping point but Atlus have already confirmed there'll be no issues in that regard at all. Sony's message seems to be that sexual content in games is fine so long as it involves consenting adults, which is great.
I'm open to changing my mind but everything I've seen "imposed" so far from Sony has been very positive.

 

[Choppasmith]

............ KoF...... normal bust size. Gulp......

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Oh please. I'm not saying it's a shining example or anything, but it's still better than the Senran Kagura stuff (they're not kids at least), and it's not like those three represent women as a whole in the franchise.

Why is listing the bust size even a thing? I mean its obviously not done in western games. Why is it a thing in Japan?

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I think there's a just a mindset of people in Japan who really like to know. I honestly don't know more than that. I remember reading a One Piece SBS (Q+A session with Oda) and a fan really wanted to know Nami's measurements and he had Sanji "answer" with his "talented eye". I've also seen it pop up in Anime here and there. Like, "Oh man! So-and-so-san says her bust is gotta be pushing 80 (cm)" It might have something to do with Japanese health exams that measure the bust.

Edit: Oh I guess casiopao answered it much better than me above.

 

[Gold Arsene]

A ratings board in the UK banned that game. Sexualization of minors was deemed unsuitable for certificate.

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Ok? I wasn't talking about that game I'm talking about their mandates in addition to what the studios do.

If the ratings board ban a game then I'm usually ok with that, because that's their official call based on local laws. I'm not exactly rooting for Omega Labyrinth. As I said in my post I'm just concerned about this reaching stuff I do enjoy like Catherine, Soul Cailber, etc. plus I don't like Sony stepping over a game that was given then ok to release and demand further changes.

 

[Inuhanyou]

For all the noise about this I'm still yet to see Sony censor anything that isn't either sexualising a minor or promoting sexual assault and I'm glad they've taken action on those accounts. The defenders keep mentioning Catherine as a sort of tipping point but Atlus have already confirmed there'll be no issues in that regard at all. Sony's message seems to be that sexual content in games is fine so long as it involves consenting adults, which is great..

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The issue is Sony have not issued a message at all. And Atlus have not said 'there would not be any issues'. Just that there would not be any absurd rays of light where you cant even see what's going on on the screen.

 

[Deleted member 135]

people here always say cultural difference is not a viable argument when a lot of them clearly have no idea about other countries.

as huge as idol culture in Japan would probably consider to be national wide creeps and needs to be changed like us Americans.

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Cultural relativism is bullshit. Japan has a gigantic problem with misogyny and objectification of minors. "Its just their culture" isn't an excuse.

 

[Ferrs]

Cultural relativism is bullshit. Japan has a gigantic problem with misogyny and objectification of minors. "Its just their culture" isn't an excuse.

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Also, pretending that japanese people is ok with it and it's their culture is insulting. There's way more people agains pedo crap, even in Japan. Japan is just really slow at changing, but it does.

 

[casiopao]

Oh please. I'm not saying it's a shining example or anything, but it's still better than the Senran Kagura stuff (they're not kids at least), and it's not like those three represent women as a whole in the franchise.



I think there's a just a mindset of people in Japan who really like to know. I honestly don't know more than that. I remember reading a One Piece SBS (Q+A session with Oda) and a fan really wanted to know Nami's measurements and he had Sanji "answer" with his "talented eye". I've also seen it pop up in Anime here and there. Like, "Oh man! So-and-so-san says her bust is gotta be pushing 80 (cm)" It might have something to do with Japanese health exams that measure the bust.

Edit: Oh I guess casiopao answered it much better than me above.

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I am just saying KoF is in no way the good one to be used as example for good body size lol as it is one of the pioneer which popularized those super jiggly boobs and of course cloth damage.

Like... being better than SK or most Compile Heart is not hard lol.

 

[pronk]

For all the noise about this I'm still yet to see Sony censor anything that isn't either sexualising a minor or promoting sexual assault and I'm glad they've taken action on those accounts. The defenders keep mentioning Catherine as a sort of tipping point but Atlus have already confirmed there'll be no issues in that regard at all. Sony's message seems to be that sexual content in games is fine so long as it involves consenting adults, which is great.
I'm open to changing my mind but everything I've seen "imposed" so far from Sony has been very positive.

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Yeah this. Everyone in the first few pages of this thread seems to be trying to act like they have no idea why Sony is banning stuff and talking around the issue mentioning plain nudity or 'niche games'. It's gross.