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Hi there all,

BEFORE WE START:

On a few occassions, i have made remarks about Seed. This was an to be released platformer/first person shooter that would do for FPS what Mario 64 did for platforming in a 3D world. The most eye-catching thing was its visual fidelity. Seed managed to push Doom 3 style stencil shadows and dynamic colored lighting and have your body physically appear in the game world, but instead of relying on shaders, Seed could run this stuff on software or bock standard hardware of the time (Voodoo 2, Matrox G400, and so on). It was developed from 1998-2000.

An example: (There is a video that illustrates it better but i have to adhere to the MEDIA limit here for videos)

seeddemo.jpg


Sadly, The game never got past the release stage and only a demo exists. For years i thought that this was the only game pushing this kind of visuals years before shaders became apparent, but last week i discovered Severance: Blade of Darkness/Blade: Edge of Darkness.

SCREENS:

01h.jpg

08h.jpg

04h.jpg

11h.jpg


(There are better pics but they are from sites that go against the TOS so i don't link them here.)

INFORMATION:

Developed by Rebel Act Studios, Severance ended up doing most of what Seed was trying to do, and more. Released in early 2001, but developed from 1996-2000, Severance preceded most modern gaming visuals by multiple years. Severance delivered Doom 3 style stencil shadows, marred with an at times amazing lightmap system, and it also had realistic particles and reflective water. It did all this on DX7 hardware and lower, like Seed. Anyone running a Voodoo or even a Nvidia TNT2 could have this kind of visual fidelity, which would only catch on when shaders became apparent.

What the Blade Engine is capable of: (They were really underselling these features as noted)
  • New portal engine allows real time lighting, volumetric lights and shadows.
  • Real time physic and fluid system.
  • Volumetric fog.
  • More than 16 different realistic outdoor/indoor environments: frozen landscape, desert, Arabic Palaces, Hindu Temples, volcanos, Lost Island, mines,.....
  • Four characters to choose from, each one with specific skills.
  • Playing Character progression depending on your abilities.
  • Up to 100 different weapons: sword, axes, spears, bows, shields, magic weapons,.....
  • Up to 25 different races of enemies: orks, trolls, golems, demons, skeletons,.....
  • Up to 100 puzzles and traps combining physics, hydraulic systems, arrows, fire, stone balls,....
  • Up to 100 different types of objects you can take, burn, break, throw and use as a weapon (tables, glasses, stools, bones,...)
  • Powerful combat system:
  • Facing (locking) enemies. Dodging.
  • Amazing combos:
  • More than 1700 animations based on Motion Capture System. Up to 20 differents attacks per PC.
  • Shield blocking. Mutilations and wounds. Real time blood. Magic attacks. Destructor attacks.
  • Advanced AI System:
  • Different defensive tactics for enemies depending on their intelligence level (stupid and agressive ork, organized and efficient Dark Knights).
  • Frenetic multiplayer arena mode:
  • TCP/IP, LAN, IPX.
  • 4 Characters with a total of 12 different skins, Parental lock for gore (disable mutilations and blood). Training level. Original Motion Track.
A developer stated in an interview (Links you can find down below) about the engine:
We use Max for the objects, Angel did an exporter to use the objects in the engine. I did a tool to Pack textures and calculate palettes, which is called BaB. Angel and me also did a compiler (well almost everything was done by Angel) that converts the maps that LED produces into the maps that the engine understands. The scripts are written with any text editor. As you have seen I use PythonWin, other people in Rebel use Visual C++ or any other one that they prefer.

You can play Blade in first person, so the engine is not tied to a 3rd person game. Most of Blade behaviour is done with properties or Python scripts. The engine is very flexible. I think it has the best physics and lightning system, as well as a very flexible biped system for animations.

The engine has several sub-engines. The physics engine is one of them. It uses mainly the mesh of the object and its mass, but there are also friction coefficients. The code for the physic engine is in the main executable, as is the entities system. So maybe we can call them the core. The graphic system is in separate DLLs. It's possible to write a raster that shows the world in a completely different way, as the toon render shows. It's possible to write a raster that uses light maps, for example.

It's also possible to implement entities behaviour or other things in separate DLLs, although we do not use this very often. You can use Python as a link to call any DLL if you want.

The geometry is tessellated for the distortion effect, but the objects aren't. Their vertices are moved depending on where they are; this is why you sometimes can see that their distortion is not the same as the rest of the architecture. This is done this way to improve the efficiency.

The water has attributes for setting the level, colour and reflection. You can also specify a callback function that is called when an entity touches it. There is also a transparency attribute, but although Angel designed it to have transparency, he hasn't had the time to implement it.

Blade does not ask a lot of the graphic card. For example, a GeForce is almost free to run with full screen anti aliasing. We have tried this and all the cards work well with Blade.

In short term, it would be easy to add Radiosity and volumetric fog to the Blade engine (we almost have volumetric fog already). In a long term, we may add a true outdoors engine, progressive detail-level, more authentic lightning...we'll have to wait and see.

But on top of that, it had an amazing physics system, and one that actually worked, unlike Trespasser: (Notice how the thrown object casts its own dynamic shadow as it falls down and comes close to a light source)



And it had a specific dismemberment system where injuries would cause puddles of blood to drop on the floor and your body visually would look damaged. This was all done in 2001, years before any of the tech featured here would catch on. You needed quite some ram (128 MB) back then to get it up to speed, but the game only needed a Pentium 2. Even the game development was rather ambitious - In the links you will find a interview describing how the game was runnable in 3D view mode during development and they could edit things as they went. WYSIWYG style development back in the early 00s. Apparently, its also playable in first person, found below. This piece of footage demonstrates perfectly the water reflections, dynamic lighting, and stencil shadows present in the game.



The game is also reported as incredibly rough for the average player. You will face multiple bosses throughout the game, with the title being labeled as a proto-Dark Souls.

Now here's the thing: This game does need quite some work to be playable on modern systems. I tried getting it to work on Windows 7 and despite every trick available online (including enabling the special patches/using dgvoodoo or even a OpenGL wrapper) the game simply refuses to start beyond the initial loading screen. Thus, it sucks i can't see these glorious visuals on my device. But perhaps you can?

Severance is a very underrated game, but it became a cult hit in Spain. You do notice that Starbreeze's Enclave, released the year after, has a very similar vibe going on, and was also a visual showcase back in the day. The only thing that Severance really hampers is the low resolution textures. Every other game in that time frame did 1024x1024 or higher, its why Enclave stood the test of time so well. Severance, on the other hand, only does 256x256. Sadly, the game never was a huge success, and a potential Xbox port, known as Ultimate Blade of Darkness was cancelled.

This was a game ahead of his time visually, and i feel an ERA thread would serve to honor this game for its visual prowess and to acknowledge the amazing work of Rebel Act. If you know of any other title that pushed the limits far beyond these years, let me know!

LINKS: (Seriously, read these. They contain so much detail on the development of this game)
http://blade-of-darkness.bigtruck-canada.ca/
http://blade-of-darkness.bigtruck-canada.ca/rebel_act_developpers/rebel_act_developpers.htm
https://pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Blade:_The_Edge_of_Darkness (To get it working on modern systems)
https://www.unseen64.net/2008/04/15/ultimate-blade-of-darkness-xbox-cancelled/ (Info on the cancelled Xbox port)
 
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Al3x1s

Banned
Nov 13, 2017
2,824
Greece
Damn cool tech but it didn't work for me as a game back then, very imprecise and weightless/impactless feeling to the combat and everything, I can only imagine it being worse these days.
 

Skulldead

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,450
got a PC copie of that game still sealed, i should really open it to try it. Does it work on Windows 7 without issue ?
 
OP
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Redneckerz
got a PC copie of that game still sealed, i should really open it to try it. Does it work on Windows 7 without issue ?
Eh..

Now here's the thing: This game does need quite some work to be playable on modern systems. I tried getting it to work on Windows 7 and despite every trick available online (including enabling the special patches/using dgvoodoo or even a OpenGL wrapper) the game simply refuses to start beyond the initial loading screen. Thus, it sucks i can't see these glorious visuals on my device. But perhaps you can?
I have read numerous reports of Win 7 users that could get it running with some fixing, and you can get it to run with Windows 10, but for reasons i can't trace back, i can't run it on Windows 7. I still get a ''out of memory'' error with the OpenGL raster, and the fixes for this memory error fail upon me. So i have to say the game is even challenging to run as much as it is a challenge as a game. - https://pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/Blade:_The_Edge_of_Darkness

Ill add that link to the OP.
 
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Redneckerz
haha i'm really sorry I was writing my post and reading at same time haha (saw it at the end) This is kinda a bummer i haven't upgrade to Win 10...
Well it does run on Windows 7, but you need to do some things to get it up to running. Things you will have to do for Win 10 anyways either. Unfortunately Blade is one of those games that require some work to get playable. Sadly i don't get that pleasure, but perhaps someone else will. I'd love to see some more gameplay in first person.

Also paging Dark1x and Dictator because i know they love stuff like this in particular :)
 

Vorador

Member
Oct 28, 2017
463
I remember being quite amazed at the puddles of blood that could flow from higher to lower ground and the physics engine. Oh, and settings things on fire (fire didn't look so well, but hey).
 

Polk

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
4,223
I just checked GOG version and it works in Win10-64 with nGlide and rOpenGL. With Direct3D couldn't see text though.
 
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Redneckerz
I remember being quite amazed at the puddles of blood that could flow from higher to lower ground and the physics engine. Oh, and settings things on fire (fire didn't look so well, but hey).
Too bad i couldn't find footage of this, but yeah, blood puddles appear and disappear and can move somewhere.

The level of tech on display really is staggering.

I want DF Retro on this game instead of some blue hedgehogs or flying dragons :-P
My Kain! ^^
 

Plumpbiscuit

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,927
This is the game I refer to as the Dark Souls before Dark Souls, where everybody seems to think Demon's Souls was the first of its kind but it isn't. This game is very underrated, it even did Mount & Blade's combat before it also.

Check out the Blade of Light ENB, there might be too much bloom but wow it makes the game looks a lot better.

 

Polk

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
4,223
Direct3d renderer needs dgvoodoo wrapper http://dege.freeweb.hu/, and i think its looks better than Glide version (better colors and mipmapping support)
I though only option D3D Voodoo 3 needed wrapper, but thanks I'll check it out.

Yeah, too bad it was removed.
 

metsallica

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,702
Incredible game. Remember all the hype leading up to release, LOVED it. This and Die By The Sword (still unquestionably Treyarch's best game) were my JAMS. The tech in Severance blew my mind. There were a lot of cool things happening on PC in those days, games that took forever to come out, stuff like this, Messiah, etc. Definitely tons of stuff for DF Retro to cover if John wills it.

It was literally amazing to just walk around in this game and break barrels.
 

Sinatar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,684
I played through this again a month ago or so, still holds up as a fun game. It's got some rough edges, but it's definitely worth a playthrough.
 

Plumpbiscuit

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,927
Agree, though what would you say on Die by the Sword? Also imho Deathtrap Dungeon was very souls'ish too. But bot as much as BoD of course
Die by the Sword has that weird mouse movement controls, haven't really seen anything else like it other than Daggerfall's vertical, horizontal and diagonal weapon swings. It's similar to BoD but less conventional.

Deathtrap Dungeon happens to be one of my favourite games of all time, it's cited as a Tomb Raider clone and it has mechanics in it that's in the old TR games.
 

Polk

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
4,223
Die by the Sword has that weird mouse movement controls, haven't really seen anything else like it other than Daggerfall's vertical, horizontal and diagonal weapon swings. It's similar to BoD but less conventional.
Yes, although I was using joystick to fight. It was actually not bad option.
 

Kudo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,877
This and Deathtrap Dungeon are those games I still think today, both were very good back in the day and I'm kinda shamed I never finished Deathtrap, it was too hard then but addicting.
 

Artdayne

Banned
Nov 7, 2017
5,015
Is it available digitally anywhere? I really want to play this. I guess I could buy a physical copy off of Amazon but then I also am using Windows 7 so who knows whether the game will run for me.

Yeah this game was fantastic back then. Played it a lot with all characters and the true ending.
This and Die by the Sword are the best fantasy-fighting-games of old days.


It's on GoG.

GoG had to remove it actually, it's no longer available to buy.
 

Mr.Deadshot

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,285
Yeah this game was fantastic back then. Played it a lot with all characters and the true ending.
This and Die by the Sword are the best fantasy-fighting-games of old days.

Is it available digitally anywhere? I really want to play this. I guess I could buy a physical copy off of Amazon but then I also am using Windows 7 so who knows whether the game will run for me.
It's on GoG.
 

KainXVIII

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,282
I though only option D3D Voodoo 3 needed wrapper, but thanks I'll check it out.
Here how it looks with dgvoodoo (1080p, 4:3, 8xMSAA) and d3d renderer (not d3d voodoo3), no sound though (Creative EAX 2 not recorded by Shadowplay or MS DVR for some reason)

 
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OP
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Redneckerz
Awesome game, I have 2 copies.
Any chance to post first person gameplay? :P

Here how it looks with dgvoodoo (1080p, 4:3, 8xMSAA) and d3d renderer (not d3d voodoo3), no sound though (Creative EAX 2 not recorded by Shadowplay or MS DVR for some reason)


I envy the user that can run that stuff like that. It still looks great sans the texture res, 17 years on. And not just ''Oh it looks good because of the art'', but legit because of the technical visuals going on.
 

brainchild

Independent Developer
Verified
Nov 25, 2017
9,478
Nice thread, Red!

The Severance engine was pretty impressive. Writing and compiling code for an engine back then was a bitch, so to make a functioning physics system in an interactive environment was no small feat (Havok middleware wasn't a thing yet). Another thing to consider during that time period was that competition between different GPU vendors was pretty fierce, so there weren't concrete standards for rendering solutions yet. 2D and 3D rendering were still being handled by separate chips back then.

And while it's true that 3DFX Voodoo cards didn't have discrete shaders, the cards were still capable of performing vertex and pixel operations (which are necessary for rasterization) so they could still yield comparable results to early shader based GPUs in terms of fidelity, but they were far less efficient at it.

Anyway, Red, you should do a thread on the history of graphics cards. I think a lot of people would appreciate that, including me :)
 
OP
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Redneckerz
I only saw this now :|

Nice thread, Red!

The Severance engine was pretty impressive. Writing and compiling code for an engine back then was a bitch, so to make a functioning physics system in an interactive environment was no small feat (Havok middleware wasn't a thing yet). Another thing to consider during that time period was that competition between different GPU vendors was pretty fierce, so there weren't concrete standards for rendering solutions yet. 2D and 3D rendering were still being handled by separate chips back then.
Well this was mostly true for Voodoo, but in 2001? Most GPU's had 2D and 3D on the same chip. What you are describing, is the situation back in 1996-1997.

And while it's true that 3DFX Voodoo cards didn't have discrete shaders, the cards were still capable of performing vertex and pixel operations (which are necessary for rasterization) so they could still yield comparable results to early shader based GPUs in terms of fidelity, but they were far less efficient at it.
Did they do this in a similar fashion as Nvidia's NSR and ATI's Pixel Tapestry? I doubt this because this is only present on Radeon 7000 and Geforce 256 and up, but supported chipsets clearly show something else, taken from the readme:

Supported 3D chipsets
  • 3dfx Voodoo 2, Voodoo Banshee, Voodoo3, Voodoo4, Voodoo5
  • 3D labs Permedia 3
  • ATI Rage 128, Radeon
  • Matrox G200, G400
  • Intel i740
  • Nvidia Riva TNT, Riva TNT2, GeForce 256, GeForce 2
  • S3 Savage3D, Savage 4, Savage2000
So what way were these visuals achieved? My guess is that like in Quake 3, multipass rendering was performed together with some fance assembly work to get this kind of visuals at playable framerates. I even doubt its even multipass given how some of those cards on the list would run to a crawl doing that. So what's going on here?

Anyway, Red, you should do a thread on the history of graphics cards. I think a lot of people would appreciate that, including me :)
Oh boy, i'd love to, but its such a huge PITA to get everything come together with all kind of sources, even though there is a megaton of video cards out there that are rather special. Like the workstation class 3D Labs Realizm cards. These things came out in 1994-1996, but i reckon you could run Quake 3 on them. Sadly nobody asks these questions and puts to the test :/

I do know SGI Max Impact graphics can run it and thats a board from 1995.

Perhaps we should work together on these things. ;)
 

brainchild

Independent Developer
Verified
Nov 25, 2017
9,478
Well this was mostly true for Voodoo, but in 2001? Most GPU's had 2D and 3D on the same chip. What you are describing, is the situation back in 1996-1997.

It would be a safe assumption to say that the game didn't start its development in 2001, right? During the initial stages of its development, I could certainly see the developers having to deal with those kind of issues.

Did they do this in a similar fashion as Nvidia's NSR and ATI's Pixel Tapestry?

Nah, just slower, manual coding of techniques and effects. Rasterization is still rasterization, with or without specialized shaders. Shaders simply make the programmer's job less difficult, and they also make the hardware more efficient at rendering certain effects.

This is a general graphics pipeline in terms of operations that need to be performed for rasterization:

FAJ8vO.png


And here's a comparison of major architectural changes, all the way from the pre-shader era to the unified shader era:

DFesDv.png


sjHMd6.png

MkDtdx.png

pduBAe.png

Gmmawt.png


As you can see, the fundamental operations for the graphics pipeline remain the same. The difference is in the implementation.

Oh boy, i'd love to, but its such a huge PITA to get everything come together with all kind of sources, even though there is a megaton of video cards out there that are rather special. Like the workstation class 3D Labs Realizm cards. These things came out in 1994-1996, but i reckon you could run Quake 3 on them. Sadly nobody asks these questions and puts to the test :/

I do know SGI Max Impact graphics can run it and thats a board from 1995.

Perhaps we should work together on these things. ;)

Yeah, I feel you. Not sure I have the time to do something like that right now, but I'd love to at some point in the future!
 
OP
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Redneckerz
It would be a safe assumption to say that the game didn't start its development in 2001, right? During the initial stages of its development, I could certainly see the developers having to deal with those kind of issues.
Sure. It started in 1996 after all. Curiously, it does not support Voodoo 1.

Nah, just slower, manual coding of techniques and effects. Rasterization is still rasterization, with or without specialized shaders. Shaders simply make the programmer's job less difficult, and they also make the hardware more efficient at rendering certain effects.
So i reckon everything is done per-vertex and in assembly?

And here's a comparison of major architectural changes, all the way from the pre-shader era to the unified shader era:

DFesDv.png



As you can see, the fundamental operations for the graphics pipeline remain the same. The difference is in the implementation.
I just wanted to highlight this pic: SGI's tech around this time was pretty much what shaders would do 10 years later. Its kinda neat. Although Sun did research this stuff back in the 80s. Michael Deering was somewhat of a Nostradamus in graphics world: Deferred shading and shader hardware came from him.
Info: http://www.michaelfrankdeering.com/Projects/HardWare/TriangleProcessor/TriangleProcessor.html
http://www.michaelfrankdeering.com/Projects/HardWare/

Severely underrated guy on the history of graphics :)

Yeah, I feel you. Not sure I have the time to do something like that right now, but I'd love to at some point in the future!
When you do, give me a call :) I am not much of an editor, but i can tell you a thing or two :)
 

Lancelot

Member
Nov 4, 2017
198
Campinas, SP
Fucking love this game, a real masterpiece at the time it released! Blade of Darkness and Enclave were the first "pre souls" type games in my opinion.
 

Stiler

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
6,659
Severance is still my favorite action adventure game and the combat is still the best there is imo. I honestly think From Software got the inspiration for souls combat from this game, it shares a lot in common minus the more "fighting game" style of inputs that severance has for its special moves.

It's one of those games you can just easily go back to and play for the sheer fun and enjoyment of it.
qqqjOIy.gif

BA6Iimy.gif


It's such a shame that the gog version was delisted, I always bring up the game whenever people are talking about melee combat or game recommendations but it's not easily available to buy now which sucks.

This game along with Rune and Die by the Sword were like the epitome of 90's/early 2000's action adventure games for the pc.
 

brainchild

Independent Developer
Verified
Nov 25, 2017
9,478
Don't know why I didn't get notification for this thread. Weird.

So i reckon everything is done per-vertex and in assembly?

That seems like a reasonable assumption. Programming in assembly was certainly more common back then.

I just wanted to highlight this pic: SGI's tech around this time was pretty much what shaders would do 10 years later. Its kinda neat. Although Sun did research this stuff back in the 80s. Michael Deering was somewhat of a Nostradamus in graphics world: Deferred shading and shader hardware came from him.
Info: http://www.michaelfrankdeering.com/Projects/HardWare/TriangleProcessor/TriangleProcessor.html
http://www.michaelfrankdeering.com/Projects/HardWare/

Severely underrated guy on the history of graphics :)

Yeah, there are a lot of unsung heroes when it comes to the history of just about anything. Reading SIGGRAPH papers is one of my favorite pastimes :)

When you do, give me a call :) I am not much of an editor, but i can tell you a thing or two :)

Will do.
 
OP
OP
Redneckerz
This is me casually paging Dark1x to encourage him to do a DF Retro of this game.
Absolutely. If there is any game that should peek his interest, its this.

Severance is still my favorite action adventure game and the combat is still the best there is imo. I honestly think From Software got the inspiration for souls combat from this game, it shares a lot in common minus the more "fighting game" style of inputs that severance has for its special moves.

It's one of those games you can just easily go back to and play for the sheer fun and enjoyment of it.
qqqjOIy.gif

BA6Iimy.gif


It's such a shame that the gog version was delisted, I always bring up the game whenever people are talking about melee combat or game recommendations but it's not easily available to buy now which sucks.

This game along with Rune and Die by the Sword were like the epitome of 90's/early 2000's action adventure games for the pc.
I love how in the first gif, the sword actually reacts to the wall it is hitting at the end of the swing. Nice little details :)

That seems like a reasonable assumption. Programming in assembly was certainly more common back then.
I just wish there was more detailed info on the inner workings of the Blade Engine :( Granted, there is a huge lot out there, but still, i want moar! :P

Yeah, there are a lot of unsung heroes when it comes to the history of just about anything. Reading SIGGRAPH papers is one of my favorite pastimes :)
Will do.
Mines are more in the gaming realm, but sometimes its interesting to read on SIGGRAPH, especially when it comes to graphics tech :) Duly noted on the history part :)
 

jimboton

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,421
This was an incredibly amazing game and not just in purely technical terms. I have serious doubts current day MercurySteam can match the vision and talent that went into creating this masterpiece but they sure as hell could do worse than trying to reboot Severance now that From has paved the way.