Shadow of The Tomb Raider leaked trailer

[Plumpbiscuit]

Actually reboot sold 11m copies (news from November last year).

Also can you post a source for TR2 numbers?

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I already broke down the sales figures to you on NeoGAF but to very quickly re-summarise the sales now in 2018, let's see...

The report that TR 2013 allegedly sold 11m comes from this, an interview with Yosuke Matsuda (of Enix) that also made this report, which is an outdated and inaccurate representation of sales figures toward the TR franchise. For example, inside that .pdf, is this meme. Tomb Raider II has not sold 6.5 - 7m copies as the graph suggests.

So what does this mean?

Either Enix fudges sales numbers or that graph is inaccurate. Either way, both are sourced from Enix, so take as you will.
Using SteamSpy and this article from PCGamer, which is sourced from CD, according to him in 2015 Tomb Raider 2013 sold 8.5m copies. So using both of these sources it's safe to assume an educated guess that 2013 has sold between 8.5 - 10m copies as of 2018. It's more like 9m because SteamSpy has rounded a lot of games to the tenth by default.

Now, back in 2003, independent magazine publication GameState got a hold of the sales figures for many games including Tomb Raider II, which sold 8m on PS1 alone. This was 2003. This isn't including PC sales, which we can assume sold very well due to the game being sold out and re-released under different editions over the years, including the apt named 'Sold Out' publisher, which published PC games that sold very high numbers. Using educated guesses, we can assume the game must have sold around 1 - 2m copies on PC for Sold Out (and other publishers) to consider re-releasing Tomb Raider II alone.

That brings 2013 to 8.5 - 10m copies sold as of 2018, and Tomb Raider II around 8 - 10m copies sold as of 2003.
Now, include Steam, GOG, the re-release sales and PSN digital sales for Tomb Raider II. We know SteamSpy has put the game around 500k copies sold, GOG doesn't do sales but considering it's been on their service for years, it's common sense that it's sold at least a few hundred thousand copies on there. PSN as well. Retail re-releases probably didn't sell as much, so rounded up, that's an extra million or near enough to it.

That's a total of:
TR 2013 - 10m max (more like 9 because SteamSpy uses 10m to round up to with a lot of games)
TR II - 9 - 11m max (12m if we estimate that GOG + PSN sales are high as Steam)

That is a potential 2m difference in copies sold between 2013 and II.

 

[NeoRaider]

I already broke down the sales figures to you on NeoGAF but to very quickly re-summarise the sales now in 2018, let's see...

The report that TR 2013 allegedly sold 11m comes from this, an interview with Yosuke Matsuda (of Enix) that also made this report, which is an outdated and inaccurate representation of sales figures toward the TR franchise. For example, inside that .pdf, is this meme. Tomb Raider II has not sold 6.5 - 7m copies as the graph suggests.

So what does this mean?

Either Enix fudges sales numbers or that graph is inaccurate. Either way, both are sourced from Enix, so take as you will.
Using SteamSpy and this article from PCGamer, which is sourced from CD, according to him in 2015 Tomb Raider 2013 sold 8.5m copies. So using both of these sources it's safe to assume an educated guess that 2013 has sold between 8.5 - 10m copies as of 2018. It's more like 9m because SteamSpy has rounded a lot of games to the tenth by default.

Now, back in 2003, independent magazine publication GameState got a hold of the sales figures for many games including Tomb Raider II, which sold 8m on PS1 alone. This was 2003. This isn't including PC sales, which we can assume sold very well due to the game being sold out and re-released under different editions over the years, including the apt named 'Sold Out' publisher, which published PC games that sold very high numbers. Using educated guesses, we can assume the game must have sold around 1 - 2m copies on PC for Sold Out (and other publishers) to consider re-releasing Tomb Raider II alone.

That brings 2013 to 8.5 - 10m copies sold as of 2018, and Tomb Raider II around 8 - 10m copies sold as of 2003.
Now, include Steam, GOG, the re-release sales and PSN digital sales for Tomb Raider II. We know SteamSpy has put the game around 500k copies sold, GOG doesn't do sales but considering it's been on their service for years, it's common sense that it's sold at least a few hundred thousand copies on there. PSN as well. Retail re-releases probably didn't sell as much, so rounded up, that's an extra million or near enough to it.

That's a total of:
TR 2013 - 10m max (more like 9 because SteamSpy uses 10m to round up to with a lot of games)
TR II - 9 - 11m max (12m if we estimate that GOG + PSN sales are high as Steam)

That is a potential 2m difference in copies sold between 2013 and II.

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Why should i believe you instead of official numbers provided by SE? Are you seriously using SteamSpy (now dead) to try and downplay official numbers provided by SE. Also implying that SE is lying. I already told you that reboot is best selling TR game in the history according to official numbers.
You didn't give any source for official TR2 numbers. You are just assuming.

 

[Plumpbiscuit]

Why should i believe you instead of official numbers provided by SE? Are you seriously using SteamSpy (now dead) to try and downplay official numbers provided by SE. Also implying that SE is lying. I already told you that reboot is best selling TR game in the history according to official numbers.
You didn't give any source for official TR2 numbers. You are just assuming.

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I... what? I just gave you sources for sales for 2. It's not my problem you believe everything at face value and can't see clear contradictions in sales figures.

 

[Deleted member 5864]

What an incredibly patronising pair of posts. I doubt the Mayan's will appreciate you treating them like an alien species incapable of producing anyone "bad" or villainous.

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LOL, what a ridiculous misguided post. I actually live in a country where the Mayans still live. Plenty of people of this and other countries are direct descendants of them, and it has nothing to do with not thinking a civilization in history couldn't be "bad" or "villainous", or treating them like aliens. Don't be dense. The problem is the tired and overused portrayal of them as "mystical savages" by this particular tired and overused imagery of the human sacrifice tied to astronomical events.

Yes, there were "bad" Mayans, duh, because they are people. Everywhere in the world there has been violent conflict and "bad" people. A lot of mesoamerican civilizations were also conquerors and slavers like the Aztecs, and many other oppressed indigenous groups like the Tlaxcaltecas actually helped the Spanish conquistadores against them because of this fact. But there were are also mathematicians, astronomers, linguists, herbalists, artists, architects, storytellers, etc. Using the tropiest of their rituals (the human sacrifices) in the trailer is the most egregious form of white colonialist shock value is not showing them as "bad guys", it's reducing them to barbaric savages, whose methods and understandings have not evolved to "European standards". And having Lara desperately reaching to stop it by via of murder is just the culmination of that outdated idea. Even the reluctance of the guy who is being used as an offering is a common portrayal of the savages "rejecting" salvation from the white colonialist, due to their lack of enlightened understanding.

They are not showing the complexity of the Mayan people (perhaps the game will do better, it wouldn't be the first Tomb Raider game with an indigenous sidekick who probably doesn't approve of the mystical "villain" gone rogue, probably to show both sides), but this is not it, this is just the same old white colonialist idea of using the exoticism and barbarism to develop a white character. While they continue to underplay her own psychopathic tendencies, by the way, trying to still play her as some sort of redeemable, curious, relatable human being. Which she is not and has not been for 2 games now.

So forgive me for not being amazed by the most tired portrayal of this ancient people again to sell me this awful, derivative product. If there is anything patronizing here, it's this trailer.

 

[OldBoyGamer]

Sorry. Are people actually justufying making a by-the-numbers game because of costs and lack of audience for not by-the-numbers games?

Jesus. We really are in trouble.

Someone above asked for a modern game that included exploration and waking around. I'll add slow climbing to the mix and mention Breath of the Wild. Please insert excuse as to why 'that's different' here ->

Oh. Mario did too.

Oh. So did Horizon Zero Dawn.

Oh. So do all the Assassins Creed games.

I think people are confusing a lot of different issues. A good game that balances its systems and mechanics will be regarded a good game. And often will sell well. A decent game that fails to balance its mechanics and systems will cause division and be hailed as dissapointing.

TR reboots do a lot of things right and a lot of things wrong IMO. But what makes them less than great games is that lack of balance between exploration, puzzles and combat.

One other thing - the original TR was released before we had casual gamers. There were very few female gamers at that time and really only mid and hard core male demographics existed. It was such a game changing game that women literally bought PlayStation's just to play it. That's right, women who had very little experience and knowledge of video game systems and mechanics bought this game and loved the shit out of it. We never looked back. All hail TR.

Too much noise makes it hard to hear sometimes.

 

[RagnarokX]

The reason Tomb Raider pivoted to what it is now is because the sales of Tomb Raider: Legend, Anniversary, and Underworld were not keeping pace with the rapidly increasing costs of AAA game development.

The following quote from Eric Lindstrom expresses the central problem that can be extrapolated much further because LAU tried to preserve the design of Core's games as much as possible, while 2013 onwards abandoned it:

The segment of the gaming audience that is interested in and patient with the kind of difficult and fatal gameplay you miss is too small for current AAA games to support. There is no model for making a game that cost as much as Underworld cost that could recoup that investment without appealing to a broader audience. This flies directly in conflict with much of what made Tomb Raider great at the start, and trying to find the right balance was a big part of my job. I know that the answer we presented disappoints the hardcore fans, and it was unavoidable. We can strive to make games as exciting as the past, but you likely won't ever see games as demanding as they were in the old days.

It's not just about being difficult. The core gameplay model for anything resembling class Tomb Raider is unsustainably niche. Modern Tomb Raider costs WAY more than Underworld did.

You mention Persona 5, for instance. That game sold so poorly it would have killed a normal AAA game series. Look at Alien: Isolation. Sold 2 million copies, killed the series. Look at Tomb Raider: Underworld. Sold almost 2.5 million, resulted in the series having to be comprehensively rebooted.

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Many issues with this.

First up, Eidos gravely mismanaged the series. They required Core to produce a game every year. This flooded the market and strained the staff. Core needed more time for the jump to PS2, but Eidos forced them to make a 5th yearly game for PS1: Chronicles. This game turned out very poorly because Core was just phoning it trying to get it done in time so they could focus on Angel of Darkness. This split in their workforce caused development of Angel of Darkness to suffer and that also turned out to be shit as a result. This hurt the brand significantly.

Another issue plaguing Angel of Darkness was the shift in focus from gameplay and great level design to overdramatic characterization and story. Fans were greatly turned off by this. When Eidos took the series away from core and gave it to Crystal Dynamics, rather than correct the series back a focus on gameplay they instead continued doing what fans didn't like about Angel of Darkness. They took inspiration from the awful Angelina Jolie Tomb Raider movies and gave Lara a support team, had her constantly talking, ramped up the cinematics, made her driven by a desire to live up to her Father and find her missing mother. The gameplay was more streamlined, action was increased, and they added QTEs. The intro to Legend is sums up this awful change in direction for the series: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPi7xz_UV9o

They tried harder with Anniversary and did pretty well, however in marketing the game they instead decided to focus on things that made the game look awful like QTEs. One of the biggest things they focused on when previewing the game was The Lost Valley level, but all they managed to show was that they didn't get it. Instead of just wandering into the valley and suddenly being attacked by dinos with no transitions just right there in the game world, you fight them in a very poorly done QTE and then you fight the T-Rex in a boss arena. The game had a very poor marketing campaign, was mainly touted for PSP, and came out in 2007 when everyone wanted PS3 games.

Underworld was rushed to market by Eidos. It was released unfinished with many bugs. It reviewed terribly and Eidos fired a large chunk of CD's staff.

So while that chart does show a dip in sales for those games, it doesn't account for the dip in quality those games represent and the mitigating circumstances surrounding their release.

The 2013 reboot, however, had an INSANE marketing budget. Like you could probably sell anything with the kind of marketing they put behind it.

Another issue is the idea that a game needs to be AAA or that a AAA game needs to focus on expensive realistic graphics. A smaller budget focusing on making a good game rather than a good-looking game will make a big difference. A major reason CD's games failed was that they focused on looking cool rather than being cool. They couldn't really stand up to the classics and they didn't have the marketing push to convince gamers to buy them anyway.

Yeah coz SE is not making games to please small handful of old school TR audience. They're here to make money like everyone, action and killing appeals to majority of gaming audience and walking and searching shit doesn't, it's simple. Name one pure exploration and puzzle based game sold 5 to 8m copies like TR Reboot did in its life time?. Old school TR will not work today trust me .

I remember someone created a thread here that they don't want guns in RDR 2, I mean what? Lol Game based on crime drama should not have guns? Lol Seriously? RDR 2 is such a expensive game and will not even make half of its money if there's no action in the game .

My problem is the some handful of members pushing their nonsense social agendas here. If you have problem with violence and white guy killing non whites then boycott all such games which do that for example - Uncharted ,Cod and gta nd all. Don't target TR franchise and Lara character alone .

Talk about the game and it's features as this is a gaming section of the forum and not off topic section. Also posting such things on a gaming forum will not bring any change in violence in games or society mindset. Change comes when you go out there and come in power .

That's all I have to say .

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The assumption that a well-made Tomb Raider game that focuses on Tomb Raiding would fail is faulty, especially since it seems to be the chief complaint even amongst fans of the reboot. Games need to sell so that they can continue to be made, but if they do it at the cost of losing their identity then they really aren't being made, anyway. They're just a generic homogenized mess of trends wearing the series' name.

 

[Dremorak]

Where's the gameplay though? Why are devs still doing this nowadays?

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Because devs are too busy working on the actual game in the way that makes the most sense instead of creating a section of faked gameplay for the public?

CG trailers are more easily outsourced. It actually makes more sense 9 times out of 10

 

[RevenantAxe]

Many issues with this.

First up, Eidos gravely mismanaged the series. They required Core to produce a game every year. This flooded the market and strained the staff. Core needed more time for the jump to PS2, but Eidos forced them to make a 5th yearly game for PS1: Chronicles. This game turned out very poorly because Core was just phoning it trying to get it done in time so they could focus on Angel of Darkness. This split in their workforce caused development of Angel of Darkness to suffer and that also turned out to be shit as a result. This hurt the brand significantly.

Another issue plaguing Angel of Darkness was the shift in focus from gameplay and great level design to overdramatic characterization and story. Fans were greatly turned off by this. When Eidos took the series away from core and gave it to Crystal Dynamics, rather than correct the series back a focus on gameplay they instead continued doing what fans didn't like about Angel of Darkness. They took inspiration from the awful Angelina Jolie Tomb Raider movies and gave Lara a support team, had her constantly talking, ramped up the cinematics, made her driven by a desire to live up to her Father and find her missing mother. The gameplay was more streamlined, action was increased, and they added QTEs. The intro to Legend is sums up this awful change in direction for the series: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPi7xz_UV9o

They tried harder with Anniversary and did pretty well, however in marketing the game they instead decided to focus on things that made the game look awful like QTEs. One of the biggest things they focused on when previewing the game was The Lost Valley level, but all they managed to show was that they didn't get it. Instead of just wandering into the valley and suddenly being attacked by dinos with no transitions just right there in the game world, you fight them in a very poorly done QTE and then you fight the T-Rex in a boss arena. The game had a very poor marketing campaign, was mainly touted for PSP, and came out in 2007 when everyone wanted PS3 games.

Underworld was rushed to market by Eidos. It was released unfinished with many bugs. It reviewed terribly and Eidos fired a large chunk of CD's staff.

So while that chart does show a dip in sales for those games, it doesn't account for the dip in quality those games represent and the mitigating circumstances surrounding their release.

The 2013 reboot, however, had an INSANE marketing budget. Like you could probably sell anything with the kind of marketing they put behind it.

Another issue is the idea that a game needs to be AAA or that a AAA game needs to focus on expensive realistic graphics. A smaller budget focusing on making a good game rather than a good-looking game will make a big difference. A major reason CD's games failed was that they focused on looking cool rather than being cool. They couldn't really stand up to the classics and they didn't have the marketing push to convince gamers to buy them anyway.


The assumption that a well-made Tomb Raider game that focuses on Tomb Raiding would fail is faulty, especially since it seems to be the chief complaint even amongst fans of the reboot. Games need to sell so that they can continue to be made, but if they do it at the cost of losing their identity then they really aren't being made, anyway. They're just a generic homogenized mess of trends wearing the series' name.

Click to shrink...

New TR made more money than all classic TR games. SE have seen the numbers and did their research . Majority of people prefer new TR and haters are in minority .

Let me share one personal example with you . My friend is huge TR fan and she was very excited when Underworld was added to BC with Gold. She immediately downloaded the game and then uninstalled it after 30 mins. She hated the game and said to me I hope they never go all puzzles and platforming route again. This sucks and boring.

You have to understand RESET Era members opinion of TR is not representative of current market trend. Most of us old school gamers with family nd all. SE is not checking era threads to see what's popular or not .

Old TR games will not work anymore and it's a fact.

 

[Dr. Caroll]

Another issue plaguing Angel of Darkness was the shift in focus from gameplay and great level design to overdramatic characterization and story. Fans were greatly turned off by this. When Eidos took the series away from core and gave it to Crystal Dynamics, rather than correct the series back a focus on gameplay they instead continued doing what fans didn't like about Angel of Darkness. They took inspiration from the awful Angelina Jolie Tomb Raider movies and gave Lara a support team, had her constantly talking, ramped up the cinematics, made her driven by a desire to live up to her Father and find her missing mother. The gameplay was more streamlined, action was increased, and they added QTEs. The intro to Legend is sums up this awful change in direction for the series: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPi7xz_UV9o

Click to shrink...

The shift in direction for the series wasn't inherently bad. You may not like the Angeline Jolie films, but that doesn't make them a poor source of inspiration. A lot of people still like those movies. Remember that Lara Croft's creator and TR1's main designer, Toby Gard, returned to the series for the first time since TR1 to consult on Legend/Anniversary/Underworld. What "the fans" didn't like about Angel of Darkness is that it was a buggy, broken piece of rubbish. The "I hate story in muh Tomb Raider" contingent are not a significant demographic for AAA videogames.

They tried harder with Anniversary and did pretty well, however in marketing the game they instead decided to focus on things that made the game look awful like QTEs. One of the biggest things they focused on when previewing the game was The Lost Valley level, but all they managed to show was that they didn't get it. Instead of just wandering into the valley and suddenly being attacked by dinos with no transitions just right there in the game world, you fight them in a very poorly done QTE and then you fight the T-Rex in a boss arena. The game had a very poor marketing campaign, was mainly touted for PSP, and came out in 2007 when everyone wanted PS3 games.

Click to shrink...

For what it's worth, Tomb Raider was firmly an Xbox oriented series by that point.

Underworld was rushed to market by Eidos. It was released unfinished with many bugs. It reviewed terribly and Eidos fired a large chunk of CD's staff.

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It didn't review terribly. All the games are around the ~80MC mark. It's not like the older games did much better. And nobody ever got fired over reviews, anyway. People got laid off because 2.5 million copies sold is a terrible result. And remember that a "faithful" Tomb Raider game would have sold even worse. Tomb Raider: Underworld was Eric Lindstrom and Toby Gard trying to find a balance between something faithful to Gard's idea of Tomb Raider with something that would actually sell.

Another issue is the idea that a game needs to be AAA or that a AAA game needs to focus on expensive realistic graphics. A smaller budget focusing on making a good game rather than a good-looking game will make a big difference. A major reason CD's games failed was that they focused on looking cool rather than being cool. They couldn't really stand up to the classics and they didn't have the marketing push to convince gamers to buy them anyway.

Click to shrink...

People did buy them. Just not in large enough numbers to stay abreast of rising AAA development costs. And mainline Tomb Raider MUST be AAA. There is no alternative. You either go big, or you go home.

 

[takriel]

Because devs are too busy working on the actual game in the way that makes the most sense instead of creating a section of faked gameplay for the public?

CG trailers are more easily outsourced. It actually makes more sense 9 times out of 10

Click to shrink...

Come on, the game is out in a few months...

 

[Dremorak]

Come on, the game is out in a few months...

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It doesnt change the fact that making a playable demo takes a lot of time and effort, and no one in games development likes making them.

 

[Dussck]

Come on, the game is out in a few months...

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And often only coming together in the last few months. If you want to make a demo that somehow represents the quality of the end product you often have to make a seperate vertical slice.

 

[Schopenhauerian]

In relation to the concerns mentioned earlier in the thread:

Just to be clear: the concerns expressed about the CG trailer's depiction of the Maya culture/people (see above) are distinct from concerns about who/how Lara may or may not kill. As noted in relation to the 2006 movie, Apocalypto:

https://www.northwestern.edu/newscenter/stories/2007/02/apocalypto.html
...As researchers who have spent our lives studying and teaching about the Maya, we cannot help but be disappointed, and even outraged, by the movie... Stereotypes of bloodthirsty savagery and moral degeneracy have been used to vilify indigenous peoples for 500 years - by every government that has sought to justify the denial of civil rights to native peoples.

During the first 200 years after the Spanish conquest of the New World - beginning in the 1500s - an estimated 75 million indigenous people were killed. But the genocide of Maya peoples is not merely a thing of the past. Some 200,000 Maya were killed in Guatemala's 36-year civil war, which ended only a decade ago. These "entertaining" images affect ordinary people too...

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And again, the hope is simply that the devs have hired (or will hire) Cultural Consultants, as Polish developer CDPR (for example) chose to do, for their upcoming game, Cyberpunk 2077:

[In December 2016, in relation to Cyberpunk 2077]… CDPR has posted some new positions on their website, among them: Cultural and Linguistic Consultant

This individual will play a part in designing the cultural/linguistic aspects of the game world. They will also be called upon to provide various references and source materials/knowledge about the melting pot that is American culture (California in particular) to be used in game design, implementation and dialogue writing…

[1] Working closely with the Story, Quest and Localization teams to catch cultural misconceptions and errors.
[2] Providing various references to the melting pot that is American culture (California in particular) to be used in game design, implementation and dialogue writing.
[3] Deep understanding of American society and culture.

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[...]I actually live in a country where the Mayans still live. Plenty of people of this and other countries are direct descendants of them, and it has nothing to do with not thinking a civilization in history couldn't be "bad" or "villainous", or treating them like aliens [...] The problem is the tired and overused portrayal of them as "mystical savages" by this particular tired and overused imagery of the human sacrifice tied to astronomical events.

Yes, there were "bad" Mayans, duh, because they are people. Everywhere in the world there has been violent conflict and "bad" people. A lot of mesoamerican civilizations were also conquerors and slavers like the Aztecs, and many other oppressed indigenous groups like the Tlaxcaltecas actually helped the Spanish conquistadores against them because of this fact. But there were are also mathematicians, astronomers, linguists, herbalists, artists, architects, storytellers, etc. Using the tropiest of their rituals (the human sacrifices) in the trailer is the most egregious form of white colonialist shock value is not showing them as "bad guys", it's reducing them to barbaric savages, whose methods and understandings have not evolved to "European standards". And having Lara desperately reaching to stop it by via of murder is just the culmination of that outdated idea. Even the reluctance of the guy who is being used as an offering is a common portrayal of the savages "rejecting" salvation from the white colonialist, due to their lack of enlightened understanding.

They are not showing the complexity of the Mayan people (perhaps the game will do better, it wouldn't be the first Tomb Raider game with an indigenous sidekick who probably doesn't approve of the mystical "villain" gone rogue, probably to show both sides), but this is not it, this is just the same old white colonialist idea of using the exoticism and barbarism to develop a white character. While they continue to underplay her own psychopathic tendencies, by the way, trying to still play her as some sort of redeemable, curious, relatable human being. Which she is not and has not been for 2 games now.

So forgive me for not being amazed by the most tired portrayal of this ancient people again to sell me this awful, derivative product. If there is anything patronizing here, it's this trailer.

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Eidos-Montreal's David Anfossi ('Head of Studio') made some additional remarks, in an April 30 Newsweek piece:

http://www.newsweek.com/shadow-tomb-raider-explores-emotional-toll-becoming-icon-906412

"We wanted Lara to experience extreme situations, and the Mayan culture is very extreme in the sense that they have this cult around death. It's a very brutal civilization, but a very educated civilization at the same time," said Anfossi. "But also, there's a mythology around the gold temples … something unreachable. Lara is, at the beginning of the game, very driven by revenge. But she will learn through the game—sorry, spoiler!—that it's totally unreachable. She will live with Maya and Inca civilizations throughout the game, so she will learn that brutality is not the only answer, but there is something other than that."

Immersion is key to the success of Shadow of the Tomb Raider and the team at Eidos Montréal wanted its portrayal of the Mayan and Incan culture to be both historically accurate and respectful. The team worked with professors and cultural consultants to ensure its treatment of myth, tradition and daily life was precise.

"[The story is] linked to the end of the Mayan calendar, so we have to understand that perfectly: the purpose of this calendar and the prophecy and everything. You will spend a lot of time living with them to understand what school was like at this time, fishing, the market," Anfossi told Newsweek. "Also, there is a purpose on the story side: Lara will understand her true nature and what she's meant to be through this contact with the civilization, because of their culture and how they live every day. If you're not true to that, it's difficult to justify how Lara will evolve throughout the game."​

 

[AztecComplex]

Underworld was rushed to market by Eidos. It was released unfinished with many bugs. It reviewed terribly and Eidos fired a large chunk of CD's staff.

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So fucking true. Underworld was just my second TR game ever (first one being Legends which I liked well enough) and I never finished it because of a game breaking bug on the PS3 version. I was in an underground tunnel on a motorcycle and something happened that I was lacking a ramp or something to make a jump making it impossible and since the game autosaved behind me I couldnt reload my game before the bug. This must've been halfway into the game.

TR Underworld continues to be my first and only game I've ever played that had me suffer through a progress impairment bug that made it impossible for me to continue unless I restarted. And I know for a fact there was at least a second progress hindering bug, one which I knew about and managed to avoid but little did I know there was another bug that I'd fall into.

By 2009 Uncharted 2 was out and I almost forgot Underworld existed. I still tend to forget it.