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Shadow of the Tomb Raider |OT| That Belongs in My Manor
- Thread starter GrrImAFridge
- Start date
I have to agree with what you wrote about Rise, but i disagree that Shadow couldn't match it.
They are two different games when it comes environments. Developers explained it very well, when they said that Rise was more about ascending and going up, while Shadow is more about descending and going underground. I will remember many of the amazing parts from Rise, but Shadow was just as good if not even better.
So this is the best way to do it?
Started on launch deadly obsession got through super long intro then stopped. Wanted to finish up Spiderman.
Going back in today guess I'll try this instead. How many hours did it take?
Most of the Shadow was in the forest which swayed from good to great to sometimes average.I have to agree with what you wrote about Rise, but i disagree that Shadow couldn't match it.
They are two different games when it comes environments. Developers explained it very well, when they said that Rise was more about ascending and going up, while Shadow is more about descending and going underground. I will remember many of the amazing parts from Rise, but Shadow was just as good if not even better.
It did have some beautiful areas and I absolutely consider Shadow to be a beautiful looking game.
But I'm looking at a trilogy as a whole and in terms of environments, Rise was the peak.
I love dark atmospheric places and nowhere my complain was that Rise was more beautiful than Shadow. It was certainly more magnificent and awe inspiring than Shadow and that has naught to do with ascension and bright warm colours.
Dark decaying environments can be just as equally awe inspiring and even more impressionistic because the sense of dread and fear from a colossal ruin nestled in a deep dark pit can be a deeply awe inspiring feeling that I really wanted but I didn't get that in Shadow most of the time.
They didn't go all the way in terms of striking visual design, I felt like, and it felt like a step back when it should have been a step forward considering this is a culmination of three games all leading upto this point.
Problem is, like someone else said few posts back Rise was much less consistent compared to Shadow. 3 out of 4 screenshots that you posted are from first 2 hours of the game. Once you reach Soviet Installation and then Geothermal Valley there is really nothing that makes you say "wow" there.
Shadow pacing is just so, so much better. I love how they are balancing linear parts (which are the best imo.) with more open areas. Rise failed to do this.
Also there were only few really memorable tombs in Rise, i am barely remembering The Red Mine, House of Afflicted, The Pit of Judgement, Bath of Kitezh and Catacomb of Sacred Waters. Because there was nothing really memorable about them.
Shadow pacing is better than Rise and I mentioned it. I love that there is a buildup to each tomb in Shadow and that's what gives it a good pacing and it makes each tomb grounded in its environment because it's not the case of a secret tomb just lying there after a short tunnel passage. But actually feels like you traverse a considerable distance and hurdles to get to it. That's a great part that Shadow did better than Rise.
But my main point is besides that. Now this is a matter of preference to a degree but my question is if the spectacle at the end doesn't live up to the great buildup that preceded it then is it a better adventure than the one where the buildup is brief but the end wonder that's truly breathtaking?
I wish we could have both, a great buildup and a great payoff, but as it's a matter of one or the other in these games, I prefer the latter approach.
Thank you for this. It's interesting that the merchant's spawn position is different for every player.
In general, I'm having so much fun exploring Paititi. It takes me time to reach certain areas because initially I wouldn't be able to figure out how to get there, and that's something I wasn't expecting from this game, it's refreshing and it adds to the exploration aspect of the game.
In the end, this is a hard one to recommend to other people. I like 2013 and Rise, but each time it was "look, this game has a tonne of problems, but it does x, y and z really well!" — and now it's like "you know those games you only *kind of* liked three years ago? Do you want to play another one, but it's marginally worst in most ways? No? Wait come ba —"
It's hard to identify one thing that brings it down. It's a death by a thousand cuts. I really liked the write up on Waypoint re: the setting and story. Also, I think it's still too soon to set a game like this in a jungle and have it unfavourably compare to the rose-tinted memory of the better Uncharted games. Even the challenge tombs are competing against the fond memories I have of the tombs in Rise.
I worry for Eidos Montreal, because they are clearly so talented, but this game just isn't quite there. And it sucks because there isn't some fatal flaw to point to. They just need some more time and practise, and this game was that. I hope they get another chance with something soon.
It's hard to identify one thing that brings it down. It's a death by a thousand cuts. I really liked the write up on Waypoint re: the setting and story. Also, I think it's still too soon to set a game like this in a jungle and have it unfavourably compare to the rose-tinted memory of the better Uncharted games. Even the challenge tombs are competing against the fond memories I have of the tombs in Rise.
I worry for Eidos Montreal, because they are clearly so talented, but this game just isn't quite there. And it sucks because there isn't some fatal flaw to point to. They just need some more time and practise, and this game was that. I hope they get another chance with something soon.
I think I like the idea of a Tomb Raider centered around more platforming and puzzles...you know, like old Tomb Raider...but the platforming is so low stakes that it's getting really boring to me. It's not at all challenging; it's Uncharted's sorbet platforming but you have whole sections of the game based around it. How many cavernous linear tombs do you go through where Lara is obviously gated by streaming of the next environment (crawling through small holes or gaps) and then the game tells you exactly what you need to do? Why does it tell you, like, 50-60% of the way through the game, how to rappel?
I think I'm done with autoplatforming in 2018. I used to really like it but now it's become an entree of its own instead of a side dish.
I also think the complete lack of likable characters in this trilogy is utterly confounding. I hope they go back to the Tomb Raider Legend style of talkative Lara if you need to have a talkative Lara; she had a wit about her that made the chatting fun. This Lara talks to herself a ton and most of her talking is didactic. It's almost like she knows there's a video game camera following her.
I think I'm done with autoplatforming in 2018. I used to really like it but now it's become an entree of its own instead of a side dish.
I also think the complete lack of likable characters in this trilogy is utterly confounding. I hope they go back to the Tomb Raider Legend style of talkative Lara if you need to have a talkative Lara; she had a wit about her that made the chatting fun. This Lara talks to herself a ton and most of her talking is didactic. It's almost like she knows there's a video game camera following her.
I'm not quite done with the game yet, but I love it. It has some less than polished moments but overall I think it destroys the last two.
Yep. Paititi alone makes this game worth playing. I just love the overall vibe in this.
Call me crazy but i start to think that i like this trilogy more than the Uncharted 1-3 trilogy.
Shadow of the Tomb Raider has so much balls, i mean a triple AAA game focused so much on exploration and so little shoot bang bang is very very rare.
For me Shadow is a great Tomb Raider game.
And my first playthrough on deadly obsession is a memorable/unique gaming experience.
The problem with Shadow of the Tomb Raider is that their balls weren't big enough instead of half committing to making it a proper exploration and tomb raiding game.
Should be, I mean it's on X. But character-wise? Spidey is much better, even Rise, iirc, has better facial animation or more if it on that matter. I guess SE just cheap this one out I feel, feels like a cheaper made game than Rise at least
I'm currently playing through both and I'm more impressed all around with tomb raider.
However, Spider-Man is a much more fun game to play.
I just got past the oil field and I think this is my favorite of the trilogy but man is it weird. It's like they really wanted to make a TR all about exploring and climbing, yet felt obligated to include all the modern Western games crap like crafting, tons of collectables, constant xp, etc. You can especially tell on the hardest default difficulty where almost all of the upgrades and Lara-vision are worthless, like it makes you wonder why they even included this stuff only to complete some kind or checklist. But on the opposite end I kinda wish they leaned way in more on the stealth systems and tools you have...
As for the story, it's definitely my favorite in the trilogy but it's definitely only "okay". It shows that they got a new writer, but I think by this point making her into an interesting character was impossible lol. They did their best but the foundation was so poor it wasn't possible to fix.
I think with a reboot to a Lara with a more classic personality and a refinement of the good parts of this game they could make something really cool. But I have a hard time believing that TR won't just get Deus Ex'd and SE's Western studios won't just become Marvel game factories.
This is motivating me to check out the classic games though. I really liked Legend but that's the only one I've beaten.
As for the story, it's definitely my favorite in the trilogy but it's definitely only "okay". It shows that they got a new writer, but I think by this point making her into an interesting character was impossible lol. They did their best but the foundation was so poor it wasn't possible to fix.
I think with a reboot to a Lara with a more classic personality and a refinement of the good parts of this game they could make something really cool. But I have a hard time believing that TR won't just get Deus Ex'd and SE's Western studios won't just become Marvel game factories.
This is motivating me to check out the classic games though. I really liked Legend but that's the only one I've beaten.
I finished the game last night and it was okay. Some parts were pretty weird, but overall, it's a solid game. The only major issue for me was the way Jonah is completely mishandled this time around, like why the hell was he even in the game? He literally did fuck all except finding increasingly contrived reasons to stay behind.
If you plan on getting the season pass and haven't yet, try finding one on ebay that came from the croft edition. That's what I did, because I preferred the standard edition artwork, but wanted everything that came with the croft one.
So after finally finishing it (it takes a while for me now having a one year old at home) I'm landing at a 8/10 for Shadow. Just like Rise.
Shadow is better in some areas and Rise holds the crown in others. Shadow has better tombs (although the tombs in Rise were better than in TR2013), better stealth and I think the interaction with the locals are pretty good. Rise on the other hand had more exciting environments. I so much enjoyed running around doing small missions or chasing animals just to see more of the landscapes. In Shadow I never quite had that excitement of exploring anything except the tombs and crypts.
The jungle is extremely well made and almost feels like a character of its own at times, but I would've preferred some completely different locations after a while. There's nothing here that compares to Geothermal Valley.
I was glad to see the heavy combat being scaled down in favor of more exploration. That was the biggest drawback of the gameplay in Rise. The stealth segments works really well and are fun as hell and the underwater sections almost feel like in the old days. Great work there. The developers have obviously listened to the feedback from a lot of fans.
So in many ways Shadow is a better game. But it's been three years since Rise, and with time we expect more. In a way Shadow feels a bit like Uncharted 4 for me. I have seen it before. It's not bad, it's just very familiar. In the third game of a trilogy they should've dared more. Especially with the story, which is pretty dull and completely lacks any surprise elements at all. I saw numerous missed opportunities to take the story in another direction or at least send some emotion my way.
Even though Rise was better than TR2013 and Shadow is a tiny bit better than Rise on the whole, none of them is a homerun. Very solid adventure games, though, and certainly some of my favourites these past five years.
Shadow is better in some areas and Rise holds the crown in others. Shadow has better tombs (although the tombs in Rise were better than in TR2013), better stealth and I think the interaction with the locals are pretty good. Rise on the other hand had more exciting environments. I so much enjoyed running around doing small missions or chasing animals just to see more of the landscapes. In Shadow I never quite had that excitement of exploring anything except the tombs and crypts.
The jungle is extremely well made and almost feels like a character of its own at times, but I would've preferred some completely different locations after a while. There's nothing here that compares to Geothermal Valley.
I was glad to see the heavy combat being scaled down in favor of more exploration. That was the biggest drawback of the gameplay in Rise. The stealth segments works really well and are fun as hell and the underwater sections almost feel like in the old days. Great work there. The developers have obviously listened to the feedback from a lot of fans.
So in many ways Shadow is a better game. But it's been three years since Rise, and with time we expect more. In a way Shadow feels a bit like Uncharted 4 for me. I have seen it before. It's not bad, it's just very familiar. In the third game of a trilogy they should've dared more. Especially with the story, which is pretty dull and completely lacks any surprise elements at all. I saw numerous missed opportunities to take the story in another direction or at least send some emotion my way.
Even though Rise was better than TR2013 and Shadow is a tiny bit better than Rise on the whole, none of them is a homerun. Very solid adventure games, though, and certainly some of my favourites these past five years.
Man, if they released the game in Early August. I feel it would have done better in terms of Sales and mindshare.
I just completed the Cenote and I feel this team just have a wayyy better grasp on what makes a Tomb Raider a game a Tomb Raider game than CD has shown in the last two entries. The exploration, environments and atmosphere absolute blow Rise out of the water.
I feel the reboot was tainted in the mind of a lot of people since the timed exclusivity with MS, it sucks because Shadow is incredibly beautiful, the exploration and puzzles are amazing, even better if you play on hard.
So I finished the main playthrough of Shadows this weekend. Really enjoyed it. Final boss battle was also better than in Rise, less gimmicky.
The weakest parts were probably some of the shootout, especially near the end of the game, the best parts the adventuring and the tombs.
The weakest parts were probably some of the shootout, especially near the end of the game, the best parts the adventuring and the tombs.
I just beat it. I'm a HUGE fan of the first two and a longtime player of the series. Shadow was good but I'm not satisfied with how it ended and how things were tied up. I can't post much because I'm on my phone but maybe I'll post my thoughts on it in the morning.
Having to pop into a menu to hear Lara y'all aboutan artifact is super annoying. Let me explore while listening to the voice overs
Lara's commentary on artifacts has been an underrated feature of each game, and Shadow hides it even more as it doesn't automatically play the voice over anymore (but I guess its an improvement for the game flow?)
It's weird because she shows clear enthusiasm towards the artifacts she finds, which could dispel a lot of the criticism that people have regarding her character having no interest in actual tomb raiding. She clearly does... but the game kinda hides that fact.
Think I need to avoid using survival instinct and map as much as possible. Messes up the pacing of the game.
Just got to the first town in Peru. Two old lady npcs with the exact same facial model talking to each other lol
Gonna pretend they are just supposed to be twins.
edit: Damn there are a lot of this same npc model in the same town lol
Gonna pretend they are just supposed to be twins.
edit: Damn there are a lot of this same npc model in the same town lol
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I just finished the PC version, took my time with it and did all the challenge tombs and side missions while finding most of the collectibles, I think there's less than 10 left on my map that I'm probably not going to grab because... on to the next game.
Anyway, I really enjoyed this game from start to finish. The only thing it lacked was two or three of the big combat scenario levels from the original - I really would have liked a little more combat even if the exploration of the levels is the main draw of these games for me. Everything else about this game makes it the best in the series for me. But with that said it's time for games like this and Uncharted to move on from auto-platforming, as there simply has to be a more compelling and fun alternative - like proper platforming. I didn't use to mind auto-platforming, but after so many Uncharted and Tomb Raider games it is the one thing I think it's time to get a tomb of its own.
I must say that this is an extremely well crafted AAA game. The visuals are amazing and the sound design nails it. It is clear that a lot of talent and effort went into this game. I didn't even mind the story, while clearly the weakest aspect of the game. It was inoffensive to me and served its purpose and there were a few well done bits. I thought that the second, largest world hub would be the last, so I was pleasantly surprised by the great third hub which I really loved, including the story aspects happening there.
Overall a very good game, where the positives far outweigh the negatives in my humble opinion.
Anyway, I really enjoyed this game from start to finish. The only thing it lacked was two or three of the big combat scenario levels from the original - I really would have liked a little more combat even if the exploration of the levels is the main draw of these games for me. Everything else about this game makes it the best in the series for me. But with that said it's time for games like this and Uncharted to move on from auto-platforming, as there simply has to be a more compelling and fun alternative - like proper platforming. I didn't use to mind auto-platforming, but after so many Uncharted and Tomb Raider games it is the one thing I think it's time to get a tomb of its own.
I must say that this is an extremely well crafted AAA game. The visuals are amazing and the sound design nails it. It is clear that a lot of talent and effort went into this game. I didn't even mind the story, while clearly the weakest aspect of the game. It was inoffensive to me and served its purpose and there were a few well done bits. I thought that the second, largest world hub would be the last, so I was pleasantly surprised by the great third hub which I really loved, including the story aspects happening there.
Overall a very good game, where the positives far outweigh the negatives in my humble opinion.
Paititi is amazing. It is so buzzing and diverse in terms of scale and there is always another worthwhile location to discover - just last night a path to the left of a side mission goal led me to a temple of the cult in beautiful scenery.
My major gripes with the game so far (I've just met up with Jonah in the Skull Cave and did some of the side missions that pop up after that) is definitely the wonky platforming, sometimes spotty voice acting and the stupid temple creatures. I don't know why Uncharted and Tomb Raider always have to pull off something of that sort but it always leaves a bad taste for me. I hope that one chapter was the only time you encounter them...
My major gripes with the game so far (I've just met up with Jonah in the Skull Cave and did some of the side missions that pop up after that) is definitely the wonky platforming, sometimes spotty voice acting and the stupid temple creatures. I don't know why Uncharted and Tomb Raider always have to pull off something of that sort but it always leaves a bad taste for me. I hope that one chapter was the only time you encounter them...
I'm gonna try and keep this brief but here's some thoughts having beaten it:
Bring on the Season Pass tombs!
I know most people said the plot wasn't great but I mean it was okay I guess. What I really didn't like was how disconnected it felt imo to the themes of the past two games. With 2013 and Rise both of the supernatural hooks were tied with souls or infinite life, etc. The box was about remaking/destorying the world. Trinity was clearly looking for a form of immortal rule but in this game suddenly they just wanted to end everything. Yes, I know they could remake it the way they saw fit but to just drop the immortality thread seems off to me. I assume the change in staff meant a change in direction for the story.
Dominguez was a lame villain and I expected a lot more from the ~leader~ of Trinity. They just drop this tidbit so casually and Trinity really fizzled out at the end. "Everyone dies in the volcano, Trinity is gone!" It all ended up too clean and nicely tied off. At the end of Rise, with Ana's assassination, I was expecting a huge conspiracy with some sort of twist and turn situation and I got nothing. I was expecting Rourke to fuck Dominguez over or something. Nope, nothing. He's ~misguided but wants Lara to do the right thing by Paititi~ at the end. Yuck.
While more consistent, I preferred the varied locations of 2013 and Rise. I was very sick of jungle by the end and (i hate to make Uncharted comparisons) but I feel like the jungle was just too similar to UC1 even though I think it was better here. The villages were cool and nice though. And the Oil Outpost was neat. I loved the mud mechanics and the focus on puzzles. I still think there could have been more combat while still retaining puzzle focus. The tombs and crypts were lots of fun!
All the artifacts and map markers were overwhelming. It's all useless collecting which is sad because I enjoy the VOs/background info but they felt inconsequential. "Oh this is the bastard who shot Ana!" ....just some random mook.
I know it reads as negative but I did enjoy it. I'm just posting what I didn't like, lol. I'll do a new game plus in a few months and see how that goes.
Dominguez was a lame villain and I expected a lot more from the ~leader~ of Trinity. They just drop this tidbit so casually and Trinity really fizzled out at the end. "Everyone dies in the volcano, Trinity is gone!" It all ended up too clean and nicely tied off. At the end of Rise, with Ana's assassination, I was expecting a huge conspiracy with some sort of twist and turn situation and I got nothing. I was expecting Rourke to fuck Dominguez over or something. Nope, nothing. He's ~misguided but wants Lara to do the right thing by Paititi~ at the end. Yuck.
While more consistent, I preferred the varied locations of 2013 and Rise. I was very sick of jungle by the end and (i hate to make Uncharted comparisons) but I feel like the jungle was just too similar to UC1 even though I think it was better here. The villages were cool and nice though. And the Oil Outpost was neat. I loved the mud mechanics and the focus on puzzles. I still think there could have been more combat while still retaining puzzle focus. The tombs and crypts were lots of fun!
All the artifacts and map markers were overwhelming. It's all useless collecting which is sad because I enjoy the VOs/background info but they felt inconsequential. "Oh this is the bastard who shot Ana!" ....just some random mook.
I know it reads as negative but I did enjoy it. I'm just posting what I didn't like, lol. I'll do a new game plus in a few months and see how that goes.
Bring on the Season Pass tombs!
What the fuck were they thinking when they put piranhas in the game? Seriously, once they see you, you're fucked. On Deadly Obsession, I've had to go through an enemy encounter and a puzzle five times because of a shitty underwater segment, where I'm powerless when I'm spotted. It's so infuriating. Dominguez is no match for these damn piranhas.
I've come across a game breaking bug where I'm unable to use the grappling axe to proceed further in the main storyline. Anyone aware of this? It's right after
.
Edit: nvm, I got it.
Unaratu gets captured
Edit: nvm, I got it.
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Is this when you're scaling the cliffs to the prison cell and the rock starts to break away?
It's the most I've had to restart on Deadly Obsession >_>
On another note, how come some cutscenes can't be skipped? Some instantly have the touch pad icon appear but some can go the entire cutscene without giving a skip option, even if it's 30 seconds long and you don't change areas? It's so frustrating when having to re-do sections and the game won't let you skip.
I just finished this and have some thoughts.
I definitely agree with the sentiments along the lines of "It's good, just not as good as the previous two."
I liked the production values, music, VO and even the story. Graphics on X look amazing. Sound is fantastic (probably the one area that this game did better over Spiderman- which I beat just before starting this) More platforming and less combat sounds good in theory but I enjoyed the combat in the previous games and this made the same mistake as Uncharted 4 in mostly making combat a punishment for failing a stealth section. I did find the brief pause in camera cuts when transitioning in and out of interactive sections distracting.
I loved the 'flashback' sequences. I found the puzzles way more obtuse in this. Some would say they're challenging, I would say, somewhat badly designed.
Overall a mixed bag but Worth a play if you've played the previous two, though Rise is still my favourite of the Trilogy.
I definitely agree with the sentiments along the lines of "It's good, just not as good as the previous two."
I liked the production values, music, VO and even the story. Graphics on X look amazing. Sound is fantastic (probably the one area that this game did better over Spiderman- which I beat just before starting this) More platforming and less combat sounds good in theory but I enjoyed the combat in the previous games and this made the same mistake as Uncharted 4 in mostly making combat a punishment for failing a stealth section. I did find the brief pause in camera cuts when transitioning in and out of interactive sections distracting.
I loved the 'flashback' sequences. I found the puzzles way more obtuse in this. Some would say they're challenging, I would say, somewhat badly designed.
Overall a mixed bag but Worth a play if you've played the previous two, though Rise is still my favourite of the Trilogy.
If I replay on new game plus... do i have to wear the native outfit through paititi?
That's really the only thing keeping me from replying it at the moment.
Well, that and holding off for more dlc tombs.
That's really the only thing keeping me from replying it at the moment.
Well, that and holding off for more dlc tombs.
yeah im hoping they will add an option to just wear whatever you want.
Welp... that sucks.
Yeah, that'd be nice.
Especially as they're selling costumes.
I agree with your overall assessment of the game except this part haha. Did you really feel that Uncharted 4 was more of the same? I respect your personal opinion ofcourse but let me state an opposing view.
I've been a fan of tomb raider for way before Uncharted existed but man I wish Shadow had been a tenth of what Uncharted 4 was.
Not only did Uncharted 4 elevated the whole series as a whole with the most engaging fleshed out story, I can go on and on about just one aspect of the story which is how beautifully it put Nate's motivation and obsession of adventure into question without it being a constant melodramatic tear-fest that was Lara in Shadow.
But apart from story, U4 also elevated the series in terms of combat, level design, fluidity of interaction and scope and magnificence of the environments.
On top of that, Uncharted 4 didn't abandon the characters it created in previous games but actually used them to create a convincing narrative conflict with Nate.
While at the same time introduction new characters that made the story more personal for Nate.
I mean Rafe was ten times more fleshed out as a villain than the entirety of trinity which is a villain of THREE games. And they managed to wrap Nate's story in a deeply satisfying conclusion which Shadow couldn't do. Nate is a fundamentally different character at the end of Uncharted 4 while Lara is exactly the same at the end of Shadow as she started in Tomb Raider, only perhaps now less reckless in picking up ancient artifacts before she reads them.
Maybe I should've been more clear about what I meant. I really like the storytelling in Uncharted 4. Naughty Dog are best in the industry. But I felt the gameplay was very much the same as in the other Uncharted games. The Uncharted formula worked well for three games but felt very "done" in UC4. I got bored, tbh. Push that box, climb, climb. Oh, another cliff and look, a box. Push it. And climb. Some sequences were even re-used from earlier UC games. UC4 is not a bad game, not at all (I'd say it's 8/10 mainly thanks to the story and the amazing graphics). But I rarely had much fun with it.