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Oct 27, 2017
39,148
So I guess the story and Lara still sucks?

The only thing I look forward to in this reboot series is the gameplay because it is solid. A shame because Lara and the story was compelling in the original series and the PS2 era reboot so the fact there is a huge downgrade in that department kill me as a fan of Tomb Raider since the originals.

Will get this game down the line for the gameplay.
 

Phonomezer

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,078
Me but the fantastic Tomb Raider 4: The Last Revelation.

Sorry but supposed series pinnacle Tomb Raider 2 cannot be beat

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AdaWong

Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,801
Raccoon City
It's "transparent" to be interested in the reviews for a game but not see any point in participating in a hype thread? Really? That sounds a lot like paranoia. I did participate in the recent hype thread, thoroughly enjoyed Rise on PS4 despite the ongoing issues with Lara as a character and the mediocre storytelling. I am both legitimately interested in and concerned about some of the things the reviews cite as problematic with the game.
It's transparent when people who have never bothered to participate in any of the Shadow threads prior to this, people who kept instituting that "hype is dead", people who defy and discredit any positive preview of the game by saying "hmm, I'll wait and play it for myself!" but then the moment a review thread shows up with multiple positive ones from reputable sources, they decide to quote that one negative review with a snarky comment of "guess I was right! skip." What happened to waiting until you play it?

If you don't fit the mold, then you're not who I mean. And it's not paranoia; let's please stop the gaslighting.
 

Visanideth

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
4,771
Have to disagree with you a bit there. It felt like the actual discussion about the gameplay was just kind of tacked on at the end. Sometimes it feels like Waypoint should have Dr. Nira Cain-N'Degeocello writing for them. I think it just feels a bit forced at times for some people. That said, it's interesting to have a different viewpoint out there.

As I said, I do not necessarily agree with her stance on the game's narrative and themes, even if I completely understand where she comes from and why those flaws that may appear inconsequential to me are absolutely damning for her.

But the review contextualizes every criticism and observation with both the storytelling and gameplay. It's a deep, well thought analysis of the game and even if it's damning, if I was the author of the game I'd be flattered that someone put so much work and attention into examining my game.
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,623
I reallly like the sound of the larger focus on stealth over direct combat. The scrappy brutal feeling of the combat of the new Tomb Raiders are what made the games stand out from Uncharted for me, and the firefights always felt at odds with that. The stories and atmosphere of the combat lent itself to ruthless stealth, not you being a one-woman army rushing headlong into shootouts. This game embracing the stealth and adding some Arkham Predator elements should be really fun if done well
 

bbq of doom

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,606
As I said, I do not necessarily agree with her stance on the game's narrative and themes, even if I completely understand where she comes from and why those flaws that may appear inconsequential to me are absolutely damning for her.

But the review contextualizes every criticism and observation with both the storytelling and gameplay. It's a deep, well thought analysis of the game and even if it's damning, if I was the author of the game I'd be flattered that someone put so much work and attention into examining my game.

Thinking along the lines of Waypoint's criticisms, is a "woke" and/or "fairly representative" Tomb Raider possible within the construct of what most believe Tomb Raider to be?
 
Aug 26, 2018
1,793
SoTR charting well on Amazon, nothing amazing with Spidey dominating #1 but bodes well. Really hope the simultaneous release on PS4, Xbox One and Steam brings it to 5 Million in a month atleast.
 

Robdraggoo

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,455
Anyone mention anything about the HDR implementation on ps4pro? Oh and native resolution?
 

Arklite

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,640
I reallly like the sound of the larger focus on stealth over direct combat. The scrappy brutal feeling of the combat of the new Tomb Raiders are what made the game stand out from Uncharted for me, and the firefights always felt at odds with that. The stories and stmosphere of the combat lent itself to ruthless stealth, not you being a one-woman army rushing headlong into shootouts. This game embracing the stealth and adding some Arkham Predator elements should be really fun if done well
I liked that in the first game, but as other critics have said, it now feels out of place. Lara should animate much more nimbly given her experience, or even just differently as those stumbles sort of betray her apparent prowess. Stealth focus is good too, but it seems like they didn't update the AI to complement it.
 

Fastidioso

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
3,101
I'm still really convinced if the reboot wouldn't be so obsessed to the cinematographic plot and the emotive Lara, would have been received better to the critic.
 

zher.ldg

Member
Nov 29, 2017
26
Ohio
Man, some of these reviews are really disappointing to me. I absolutely loved the game from start to finish, and it felt the strongest to me out of the three reboot games. If you really enjoyed the two previous games and want a greater emphasis on challenge tombs, crypts (basically mini-tombs), exploration, Uncharted-style set pieces, and a dark story, don't skip it based on some negative reviews.
 

AdaWong

Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,801
Raccoon City
The edit changes nothing. The post was originally in agreement with another post knee deep in conspiracy theories.

Oh WOW. So now we getting into people's intentions and what they actually meant by their. own. posts. -- Even after my immediate posts following it apologizing for how it could have been interpreted differently? Asdjklsjfdwjslkfh\sjksd I can't.
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Man, some of these reviews are really disappointing to me. I absolutely loved the game from start to finish, and it felt the strongest to me out of the three reboot games. If you really enjoyed the two previous games and want a greater emphasis on challenge tombs, crypts (basically mini-tombs), exploration, Uncharted-style set pieces, and a dark story, don't skip it based on some negative reviews.
The dark story is the main selling point for me. Do you have a review of your own? I would love to read it.
 

Arklite

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,640
Man, some of these reviews are really disappointing to me. I absolutely loved the game from start to finish, and it felt the strongest to me out of the three reboot games. If you really enjoyed the two previous games and want a greater emphasis on challenge tombs, crypts (basically mini-tombs), exploration, Uncharted-style set pieces, and a dark story, don't skip it based on some negative reviews.
Even lower scoring reviews praise the changes to improved level and tomb design, though. Problem is more people aren't reading the reviews.
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,623
I liked that in the first game, but as other critics have said, it now feels out of place. Lara should animate much more nimbly given her experience, or even just differently as those stumbles sort of betray her apparent prowess. Stealth focus is good too, but it seems like they didn't update the AI to complement it.
Her being nimble and experienced doesn't mean the combat shouldn't be brutal and scrappy. In fact, her being experienced means she should be even more brutal. She's one woman taking on trained soldiers who outnumber and outgun her. Being ruthless and unorthodox in her tactics, using every advantage to throw them off balance and shift odds in your favor, is how she should fight. Like the fact that your "stun" in TR1 was throwing dirt in your enemies' eyes captured that perfectly.

Scrappy doesnt mean clumsy. It means rough and untidy, which contrasts her one-with-the-jungle style with the trained mercenaries she faces.
 

Khalme

Member
Feb 5, 2018
201
Man, some of these reviews are really disappointing to me. I absolutely loved the game from start to finish, and it felt the strongest to me out of the three reboot games. If you really enjoyed the two previous games and want a greater emphasis on challenge tombs, crypts (basically mini-tombs), exploration, Uncharted-style set pieces, and a dark story, don't skip it based on some negative reviews.
Well, that's good to hear.

I was going to get it anyway, since I enjoyed the first two games.
 
Nov 30, 2017
1,563
Well, if you also check for each console version, for instance PS4 doesn't have IGN score, Gamespew score, while X1 version doesn't have Telegraph score

Thanks. I didnt know that either.

Well good scores all around. I'll buy it day 1 but have to finish another game first.

Even if it didnt review well I would have bought it. TR is just one of those franchises I'd buy no matter what.
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,623
Man, some of these reviews are really disappointing to me. I absolutely loved the game from start to finish, and it felt the strongest to me out of the three reboot games. If you really enjoyed the two previous games and want a greater emphasis on challenge tombs, crypts (basically mini-tombs), exploration, Uncharted-style set pieces, and a dark story, don't skip it based on some negative reviews.
A dark story? Like dark through themes and narrative, or by trying to capture horror movie atmosphere like the first game?
 

zher.ldg

Member
Nov 29, 2017
26
Ohio
Even lower scoring reviews praise the changes to improved level and tomb design, though. Problem is more people aren't reading the reviews.

Oh no, they definitely are praising that. I've read through 14 or so additional reviews after doing my own to see what others were thinking, and was just surprised at some of the individual scores. The changes you mentioned are definitely two of the strongest aspects now.
 

bbq of doom

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,606
Oh no, they definitely are praising that. I've read through 14 or so additional reviews after doing my own to see what others were thinking, and was just surprised at some of the individual scores. The changes you mentioned are definitely two of the strongest aspects now.

Any idea as to why the scores are how they are, at least as far as the "surprises"?
 

Arklite

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,640
Scrappy doesnt mean clumsy. It means rough and untidy, which contrasts her one-with-the-jungle style with the trained mercenaries she faces.
That's what I mean, though. She looks clumsy still. She doesn't have to look like a swan, I'd just like to see her jump to a ledge with explosive strength rather than clamber up to it, or jab her axe into enemies with quick brutal efficiency rather than baseball swing it.

This is all minor things, a wish of updated animations. I think what happened was EM chose to focus on expanding the game and improving levels and interaction over re-animation. I'll take the first if I had to choose one.
 

ElBoxy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,135
Thinking along the lines of Waypoint's criticisms, is a "woke" and/or "fairly representative" Tomb Raider possible within the construct of what most believe Tomb Raider to be?
It's complicated. This game chose to incorporate real indigenous people into the narrative unlike a lot of stories of this type. Unfortunately it sounds like it fucks up royally in offensive ways.
 

NullPointer

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,173
Mars
Speaking of collectibles, I always thought it was odd in the previous reboots that my reward for finding hidden things was to have other previously hidden stuff now show up on the mini-map.

I explore because I don't like the playstyle of chasing icons on a mini-map. If I wanted to chase icons on a minimap I wouldn't be blindly exploring. So those felt more like anti-rewards.

Is this how Shadow works too? What are the game's rewards for finding the hardest to find things?
 

Mathieran

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,862
I wasn't gonna but this day 1 anyway but unless it's a lot better than Rise I don't think I'll get it at all. I really enjoyed TR2013 but Rise did nothing at all for me. It was one of the most mediocre games I've ever played.
 

Visanideth

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
4,771
Thinking along the lines of Waypoint's criticisms, is a "woke" and/or "fairly representative" Tomb Raider possible within the construct of what most believe Tomb Raider to be?

I... think not. In truth, Lara should not be raiding tombs. The idea of a british noblewoman traveling the world and collecting artifacts from "primitive" civilizations is... well, unredeemable.

In a "woke" narrative, you'd probably have to reimagine Tomb Raider as a franchise where the titular heroine changes at each game, and you have a character coming from the culture whose tombs are featured in the game recovering artifacts for the goodness of the general public. And you'd still probably find issues there too. And it would probably be the most boring franchise of all times.
There may be a sobering realization that "fairness" and "wokeness" may not be terribly fun at some point. That Indiana Jones is problematic, and Back to Future is problematic, and that probably everything you loved in the past wasn't "right" in some way. The author of the Waypoint review points out (and this is something the people who jump the gun to say "lul waypoint" are absolutely missing) that the very vague and cartoonish premise of Old Lara was better than the New and Depressingly Realistic Lara.

I think this is what probably damns this Tomb Raider. Instead of avoiding the issue, it tackles it pedal to the metal - and fails. I don't want to bring out Uncharted here, but one can't help and think how wise Naughty Dog was in designing a "fantasy archeology" franchise while almost completely avoiding these issues. Drake is generally raiding the tombs of white people, disrespecting the heritage of literal nazis, killing mercenaries and so on. The most "problematic" story may be Uncharted 2, but generally speaking Nathan Drake isn't pillaging other civilizations, he's going after the people who did so. Uncharted would never feature indigenous populations performing mass human sacrifice. It's about a thief stealing from thieves.
 

carlsojo

Member
Oct 28, 2017
33,834
San Francisco
Man, some of these reviews are really disappointing to me. I absolutely loved the game from start to finish, and it felt the strongest to me out of the three reboot games. If you really enjoyed the two previous games and want a greater emphasis on challenge tombs, crypts (basically mini-tombs), exploration, Uncharted-style set pieces, and a dark story, don't skip it based on some negative reviews.

What if I liked the first game, but felt the second one was a slog?
 

Gestault

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,371
I'm going through some more video reviews as I come across them. Especially with their love of the first game (it was basically their favorite, bar none), the MrMattyPlays review makes the game sound excellent. His focus on the "three pillars" of game design from the series was really helpful. There's a lot of criticisms of the wider action-explorer genre that I'm glad they addressed in Shadow. I love that the puzzle difficulty setting also effects the amount of "character talking to yourself" clues.

The "blind spot" in how effective Lara is at close-quarters range in combat gets mentioned, and that sounds like something to be aware of coming in.
 

zher.ldg

Member
Nov 29, 2017
26
Ohio
What if I liked the first game, but felt the second one was a slog?

This is immensely better than Rise. RotTR suffered a lot from poor stage design and pacing issues, whereas this one doesn't have that at all. One of the biggest changes Eidos Montreal did was improve the way the areas and levels flow together, especially when it comes to challenge tombs and the new crypts. How do you feel about the Uncharted games, specifically 4 and Lost Legacy? If you enjoyed those, chances are high you'll love SotTR.
 

AdaWong

Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,801
Raccoon City

VinFTW

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,470
Wow, 83?! Great fuckingscores.

Spiderman, this and AC:Od is previewing really well.

So excited for my copy to come next week now.