Shadowbringers is better than your favorite FF

Lindsay

Member
Nov 4, 2017
1,552
How long to beat says just beating it takes 50+ hours. That automatically disqualifies it as being better than my fave FF game.
 

TDLink

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,133
I disagree that the impact would still be present. The whole of XIV's narrative structure is built around the idea that the player is their character. The cast is only rebooted insomuch as their class roles. Their personalities aren't alien to prior expansions. I don't believe for a second that Shadowbringers would elicit nearly as much regard as a standalone title. For that matter, it would simply be an entirely different game, with a different development approach and likely a different set of minds behind it. It would be similar in concept only. The personal investment you put into your character is part of the narrative's draw - you are the character, and the narrative has treated you this way since ARR. In short it's aimed at you and not at 'the main protagonist'. Yes the idea behind Shadowbringers could be made into a single player RPG. But it would be different from the ground up, with different approaches to narrative and presentation, dialogue, and likely lore. It isn't as simple as taking Shadowbringers, tying some ends, and making it FFXVI. It can only exist as it is because XIV is an MMO with two previous expansions preceding this, that the player has journeyed through and bonded with their character. It is not the same as starting a new game with a fresh protagonist.
Yeah, I completely disagree with you. The narrative is not so dramatically tied into YOU personally being the player character. And certainly not on your experiences in past expansions. There are some more minor "Cool" moments, especially a very specific one which I am sure you know I am referring to, that are only as cool as they are because you have a connection with your character, but it is not so vital to the game that it couldn't work without it... and if the exact same effect was desired to be achieved, they could do it with a created character in a single player game anyway. The thing that makes the narrative great isn't you or your character. It's the world, the scenario, the villain, and a few of the supporting characters like Ardbert -- none of which is inherently contingent on you specifically having played a character who went through the stories of ARR, Heavensward, and Stormblood.

In regards to the other party members, like I said in my last post, you don't really have to know about any of their prior experiences. The game pretty well establishes who each of these people are and why they're doing what they're doing from this expansion alone. Thancred is potentially the one exception, but you get his whole story, essentially, just by playing through the expansion. Heck, Urianger was, I would argue, barely a character before this expansion -- which is the first time he's been more at the forefront.

As far as eliciting praise, I absolutely believe it would be even wider regarded were it a single player FF and not tied to a MMO that requires you to play several hundred hours first.
 

Lindsay

Member
Nov 4, 2017
1,552
wait why, that seems like pretty standard length for a JRPG.
For just getting through the story playing normally, doing some but not all extra stuff, my usual rounds of grinding, 50+ hours is by far abnormal in the case of jrpgs I generally play. 20-30 hours is average. 40 uncommon, 50 rare, etc. This year first (and last...) time playing Blue Reflection just ta get through it was 18 hours. Ni no Kuni 2 "99%" took only 42 hours despite going all in on its non-main content so just imagine how much shorter it'd have been without that. 7, my fave FF, I can easily clear in around 15 hours just for the story. Even on my earliest playthroughs of 7 of which my ancient save files can attest to, it wasn't taking me 50 hours ta hit the final save point.
 

Gamer @ Heart

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,323
Then this topic doesn't make sense. The claim should be "FF14 is better", not the expansion only.
It's not as dramatic as that. Because you are taken to a new world, there is alot of world building that you don't need any prior history for, and for big picture stuff you do, it's explained to you when the time is right. Aside from one reveal and a few character moments, it's very self contained.
 
OP
OP
Zen

Zen

Member
Nov 1, 2017
3,472
Yeah, I completely disagree with you. The narrative is not so dramatically tied into YOU personally being the player character. And certainly not on your experiences in past expansions. There are some more minor "Cool" moments, especially a very specific one which I am sure you know I am referring to, that are only as cool as they are because you have a connection with your character, but it is not so vital to the game that it couldn't work without it... and if the exact same effect was desired to be achieved, they could do it with a created character in a single player game anyway. The thing that makes the narrative great isn't you or your character. It's the world, the scenario, the villain, and a few of the supporting characters like Ardbert -- none of which is inherently contingent on you specifically having played a character who went through the stories of ARR, Heavensward, and Stormblood.

In regards to the other party members, like I said in my last post, you don't really have to know about any of their prior experiences. The game pretty well establishes who each of these people are and why they're doing what they're doing from this expansion alone. Thancred is potentially the one exception, but you get his whole story, essentially, just by playing through the expansion. Heck, Urianger was, I would argue, barely a character before this expansion -- which is the first time he's been more at the forefront.

As far as eliciting praise, I absolutely believe it would be even wider regarded were it a single player FF and not tied to a MMO that requires you to play several hundred hours first.
I can't bring myself to agree with your take. It would be executed differently as a single player game not taking the MMO framework into account. Basically an entirely different game. To say nothing of the team working on it. I am all about future FFs taking up the themes in Shadowbringers, though, so we can hope that this serves as influence for future titles.
 

ghibli99

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,748
USA
Just wanted to say thanks for this thread. I mean, arguments about the "best" FF aside, this got me to reinstall the game and give it another shot after not being able to get into it a couple years ago. Since then I've beaten some of the Xenoblade games, which were kind of an MMO primer for me (literally the only MMO I've played is about 5 hours of FF11), so it's been a comfortable experience so far. Only Lv. 7 and barely out of the first town, but everything is feeling good at the moment, and I absolutely love the soundtrack and fast combat.
 

Sibylus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,793
Just wanted to say thanks for this thread. I mean, arguments about the "best" FF aside, this got me to reinstall the game and give it another shot after not being able to get into it a couple years ago. Since then I've beaten some of the Xenoblade games, which were kind of an MMO primer for me (literally the only MMO I've played is about 5 hours of FF11), so it's been a comfortable experience so far. Only Lv. 7 and barely out of the first town, but everything is feeling good at the moment, and I absolutely love the soundtrack and fast combat.
As early game goes, spikes of interest at 10 (first pair of guildhests, good xp and teaching), 15 (first dungeon), 20 (first trial and your chocobo mount).
 

whiteninja

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
847
Is it possible to hire npc mercs to take place of party members like Everquest? Last time I played few years ago with the free trial it took almost a hour to find a party for one of the story dungeons. Quit after the trial was up.
 

ghibli99

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,748
USA
As early game goes, spikes of interest at 10 (first pair of guildhests, good xp and teaching), 15 (first dungeon), 20 (first trial and your chocobo mount).
Cool! I'm just trying to take my time, learn my bearings, understand my way around menus and such. I don't like having to think about gear degradation, but it seems to happen very slowly, so hopefully it won't get annoying. :)
 

Sibylus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,793
Cool! I'm just trying to take my time, learn my bearings, understand my way around menus and such. I don't like having to think about gear degradation, but it seems to happen very slowly, so hopefully it won't get annoying. :)
Yeah there's never really a point where your gear will degrade very quickly, quite forgiving. I forgot to mention that there's also the Hall of the Novice which will also teach things and give rewards (including some gear). That opens at level 15, just look for The Smith in the adventurer's guild in any of the starting cities.
 

B.K.

Member
Oct 31, 2017
3,837
Is it possible to hire npc mercs to take place of party members like Everquest? Last time I played few years ago with the free trial it took almost a hour to find a party for one of the story dungeons. Quit after the trial was up.
Only in Shadowbringers. They added Trusts for dungeons in Shadowbringers.
 

ghibli99

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,748
USA
Yeah there's never really a point where your gear will degrade very quickly, quite forgiving. I forgot to mention that there's also the Hall of the Novice which will also teach things and give rewards (including some gear). That opens at level 15, just look for The Smith in the adventurer's guild in any of the starting cities.
Awesome -- thanks for the tip. It frightens me what this could become if I really get into it, but at the same time, it's exciting to feel like one of these games has finally appealed to me and is holding my interest.
 

SpokkX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,688
Frankly it cant be the ”best”.. just getting to it you have to suffer through 50 hours of shit.. i managed 20 before i quit

Those 20 hours were some of the most formulaic and boring gaming hours i ever had

Yes, ever

Granted i have never played mmo - this is perhaps the norm?
 

Sibylus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,793
Awesome -- thanks for the tip. It frightens me what this could become if I really get into it, but at the same time, it's exciting to feel like one of these games has finally appealed to me and is holding my interest.
It can be a hoot, but best enjoyed at your own leisurely pace. There's a lot of content, even side-content.
 

ghibli99

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,748
USA
It can be a hoot, but best enjoyed at your own leisurely pace. There's a lot of content, even side-content.
Yeah, I'm enjoying just running around and completing the various sidequests and such. Don't really feel like I've progressed the story at all, and I got to Lv. 10 rather quickly, which is opening up some new things. Very excited to have the weekend ahead of me to dig in deeper! :)

Also, the CG movies are so good. I don't think I ever watched these! Also cool that certain events/cutscenes are voiced, even though I appreciate the text-only approach for the vast majority of the game.