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Shadowbringers is better than your favorite FF

banshee150

Member
Apr 3, 2019
867
Can't really agree with any of that. ShB barely had any padding, busywork, or fetch quest in the main story. And when it had anything even resembling that, it was quick and payed off in spades. The main character still has a lot of personality despite having no VA. I hope you don't play a lot of recent major JRPGs like DQ11, FE:TH, Persona, etc because those protagonist have even less lol
Well, I loved DQ11, FETH, Persona but I hated the silent protagonist in those games as well (although less so in the case of Persona since it didn't bother me as much there. It did bother me in DQ11 and FETH) but these games were solo affairs and a lot of effort was put into making the SP experience of a high quality.

SB on the other hand had a lot of padding, busy work and fetch quests before you could continue with the main quests. I would know because I finished it. You may not have felt that quite as strongly as I did, but this is the one thing that I remember pretty clearly - go convince the village that you are reliable by doing fetch quests, go do this useless errand, go fetch some items, etc. It was padding and it was actively gatekeeping me from progressing the main storyline. In DQ11, FETH and Persona these things are optional and even if I chose to partake in them, it wasn't anywhere near as bothersome as in an MMO like FFXIVI where it clearly wasn't optional because... reasons.

In fact, the expansion itself was fairly short if you just did the main missions.

I am not saying SB was bad, but I didn't enjoy it anywhere near as much as others have, and I definitely don't agree that its the best FF storyline ever.
 

Zacmortar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,216
Im normally a proponent of writing>gameplay

but mmo gameplay is trash, unsatisfying, and unimpactful

so even if the narrative around it is good, mmo gameplay will never be better than even FF15

It's why I still really cant stand FF12
 

Moara

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,624
Im normally a proponent of writing>gameplay

but mmo gameplay is trash, unsatisfying, and unimpactful

so even if the narrative around it is good, mmo gameplay will never be better than even FF15

It's why I still really cant stand FF12
FF15s button mashy and unresponsive gameplay isn't better than anything
 

bounchfx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
927
Muricas
would love to understand why but I can't help but feel these kind of titles are exaggerated. I'm sure it's fantastic. I tried playing the game, got to level 30, but holy shit it was just a slog. There's a lot I like about the game but if it's going to take me 200 hours to even get to the decent parts let alone good I just can't invest that kind of time. I'll certainly try again, but I donno. Can you guys share more about what makes it so good? obviously the music is cool but any specifics about the rest that aren't the story? like is it the world design, dungeons, enemy fighting tactics? does the combat get any more interesting? the class system? etc.

basically just trying to understand how you'd justify it as better than the others - it's not even a remotely similar game so it just seems weird to put it on that kind of pedestal. halp 2 understand
 

Chille

Member
Jan 7, 2018
337
I mean that's nice and all but yeah, I just can't be bothered with everything you need to do when I don't even enjoy the moment-to-moment gameplay much at all? I really tried with A Realm Reborn a few months ago but fell off after 20 hours or so. It's a bummer because I've been told Heavensward has a fantastic story too but I just don't enjoy the act of playing the game enough. I totally believe that there's some fantastic FF content here, I just don't think the game itself is for me.
For everyone with this issue in next few patchs they working on changing the ARR quest structure to make it less ass
 

banshee150

Member
Apr 3, 2019
867
Im normally a proponent of writing>gameplay

but mmo gameplay is trash, unsatisfying, and unimpactful

so even if the narrative around it is good, mmo gameplay will never be better than even FF15

It's why I still really cant stand FF12
I totally agree. For people who can't stand mmo gameplay, SB would not impress no matter how good its story is. I overcame this resistance in me and finished all the expansions to see what the hoopla was about. Its a good story, but it never overcame the unsatisfying combat and the general dislike of mmo conventions.
 
Nov 3, 2017
2,070
Because these threads sound like they're trying to convert us to their faith. It sounds nice and all, but the barrier to entry is just too much and "you just have to suffer through the base game" isn't the most appealing pitch.
Isn’t that an argument against this being cultish behaviour then? No one is trying to ignore or downplay how mediocre the base game experience is.
 

xeecee

Member
Oct 27, 2017
589
I wish FFXIV was a better experience for returning players. I really enjoyed my time with ARR but I bounced after getting tired of raiding CT2 and now the climb is daunting, to say the least. WoW has a lot of problems of its own but one thing it's very good at is making it easy to jump back into the game if you sit an expansion or two out.

looking at the number of hours I'd have to play to even get to shadowbringers content is just. not feasible
 

mutantmagnet

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,070
These superlatives don't cut it for me. If someone puts the effort to do a critical analysis video like super bunny hop or Joseph andersson or mandalore gaming then I'll take this seriously.
 

DNAbro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,213
would love to understand why but I can't help but feel these kind of titles are exaggerated. I'm sure it's fantastic. I tried playing the game, got to level 30, but holy shit it was just a slog. There's a lot I like about the game but if it's going to take me 200 hours to even get to the decent parts let alone good I just can't invest that kind of time. I'll certainly try again, but I donno. Can you guys share more about what makes it so good? obviously the music is cool but any specifics about the rest that aren't the story? like is it the world design, dungeons, enemy fighting tactics? does the combat get any more interesting? the class system? etc.

basically just trying to understand how you'd justify it as better than the others - it's not even a remotely similar game so it just seems weird to put it on that kind of pedestal. halp 2 understand
I wrote a big thing about how I grew to love it like a month ago

It may give you some idea.

These superlatives don't cut it for me. If someone puts the effort to do a critical analysis video like super bunny hop or Joseph andersson or mandalore gaming then I'll take this seriously.
I can't tell if this criteria is serious.
 

Flambe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
223
Excited.

I used the lvl 60 potion and powered through ARR and patches decently quickly. Now am I'm guessing 2/3 through Heavensward and REALLY enjoying it.
There have been some fantastic character moments that have evoked emotion out of nowhere and pretty good set piece battles.

I'm very much looking forward to experiencing the rest of the expansions. Even when those are through I hear there are some pretty great Class storylines to do as well so that's cool.
 

Auxy

Member
Jan 1, 2018
259
Newmarket, UK
Only at Stormblood right now but I'm close and looking forward to it. I found Heavensward to actually live up to the hype my friends set on it—at least aside from some ARR plotlines being too quickly handwaved imo—and if the Dark Knight quests are indicative of the writing quality for ShB I have a lot to be excited for.
 

antitrop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,531
Colorado Springs, CO
Can someone go into more detail about what it is they love about XIV/SB? I see tons of praise but it's always pretty generic praise.
People get too bent out of shape about spoilers to talk about anything specific these days. Generic praise is less likely to offend.

The FFXIV community is particularly sensitive, because of the time investment required to appreciate everything.
 
Oct 27, 2017
9,903
I'm suffering through A Realm Reborn right now just because of how much praise y'all have given this shit. As a huge FF fan, I had to bite the bullet. I HAVE TO KNOW.
 

mutantmagnet

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,070
.



I can't tell if this criteria is serious.
If you took 1 minute to look at the YouTube content of these people you wouldn't be asking this question.

They put out really good content.

Look at any individual response here and they are very bare bones in explaining themselves. It's almost worthless especially with the comparisons to past games made.
 

Gaia Lanzer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,731
If it's so good (I don't doubt it, just saying), give me a offline, single-player FF game with such a story, then I'll care (sorry, I'm not playing any MMORPG).
 
Oct 31, 2017
403
while a lot of the encouragement for people to play shadowbringers is good and well... today i had an experience that made me think, "wow people really need to slow down and not invest if they aren't into this"

Was in holminster switch. leveling my ....5th (?) job to 80 when we had a sprout... which is odd because you lose sprout status when you have a certain amount of hours and get past heavensward.

Clearly, the player bought a skip for everything. Didn't know how to play their job, and didn't even know the basics of the games' mechanics. Never dodged an aoe, never spoke to anyone even when i was being friendly and addressing them directly (a serious problem with lots of sprouts). And i just thought to myself, how is it fun to play a dungeon and die 15-17 times and be down for most of every bossfight because you never learned the basic attack indicators...

Shadowbringers is marvelous and very well written, but if anyone is thinking of buying into it and not bothering with people interactions, i wouldn't recommend it. Especially if you don't wanna learn attack indicators because it means dungeons would be impossible for folks like this person who cannot do trusts because they'd never finish anything.
 

Overture

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,022
Portugal
Man, I've started this fucking MMO 3 times over the years, I just can't stick with it... people keep saying it gets really good, but it's pretty unremarkable for a lot of hours. Someday I'll get through the boring content...
 

StoryofSouls

Member
Oct 27, 2017
223
east coast, usa
final fantasy 1 has more customization in combat than 14 does. i am not cycling the same rotation for 30 hours so I can watch npcs use all the in game emotes for conversation in 90% of the cut scenes
 

Zefah

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,494
FF15s button mashy and unresponsive gameplay isn't better than anything
FF15's combat looked cool, but I never felt like I got a handle on it or was making strategic decisions at any point in my entire play through really. I'm sure some people figured out the combat system, but the game basically played itself for the most part as far as I could tell.
 

steviejd1

Member
Nov 8, 2017
6,342
Look at any individual response here and they are very bare bones in explaining themselves. It's almost worthless especially with the comparisons to past games made.
So we need to make or have someone make hour long videos to be able to discuss what we think is the best FF game we have played?

i am not cycling the same rotation for 30 hours so I can watch npcs use all the in game emotes to conversation in 90% of the cut scenes
You obviously don't know how the combat works for most jobs then. There's reactionary rotations, there's priority rotations. It's certainly not "hit the same buttons in the same order for 30 hours."
 
Oct 31, 2017
4,618
Unfortunately, MMO’s are not my thing.

And I know that this is due to it being an MMO with a shitload of content, but the presentation of the cutscenes suck.

And I hate how the only CG cutscenes in these games are the opening.

So I know I won’t end up enjoying it.
 

ZSJ

Banned
Jul 21, 2019
145
Yea, not with that boring ass MMO gameplay. The game part of XIV is the very definition of cookie cutter. If you like teleporting around talking to NPCs, spamming rotations and avoiding circles on the floor then it's probably a hoot.
 

WetWaffle

Member
Oct 25, 2017
417
All I can say is hang in there to people struggling to get to the expansions. I know how you feel, the entire Company of Heroes feast quest line made me never want to touch the game again but I got over it.
 

mute

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,246
The recurring cost and multiplayer aspects are a tough thing for me to get over.

Closest I have come is a free trial month of XI way back when, it was not my cup of tea.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,027
The FFXIV Protagonist has more personality than most silent protags in recent JRPGs. They seem like a fully fledged character compared to characters like Byleth or DQ11 Hero.
For sure. As much as I love DQ11 the silent protagonist took me out of the cutscenes. All this shit would be happening and he'd basically just stand there with a blank look on his face. At least it wasn't as unintentionally hilarious as that MGSV Jeep ride.

They actually do some cool stuff with the silent protagonist in FF14. That moment right before the final battle especially.
 

BizzyBum

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,621
New York
Okay, how the heck can a XIV expansion be THAT good?

I wouldn't mind playing it but I am in no way starting with a fresh MMO at this point. Maybe I'll just watch a let's play or something. Does anyone have any good ones to watch?
 

antitrop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,531
Colorado Springs, CO
Okay, how the heck can a XIV expansion be THAT good?

I wouldn't mind playing it but I am in no way starting with a fresh MMO at this point. Maybe I'll just watch a let's play or something. Does anyone have any good ones to watch?
So much of it is about the personal connection you've made with your own character, your own Warrior of Light, that it would never all come across in a Let's Play. There is absolutely something in 250-300+ hours of personal investment that can't be replicated without going on the journey yourself.

But like I keep saying, I absolutely understand why someone would say "fuuuuuuuck that" to over 200 hours of MMO gameplay. It has to click. I played the free month at 2.0 launch in 2013 and never thought I would ever play it again. Here I am 6 years later calling it one of the best Final Fantasies, if not the best.
 

Raoh

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,713
saying the game gets better after the slog is no better than digesting the first 45 hours of FFXIII just to enjoy the last 5 when the game "gets good"
 

Flipyap

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,610
Isn’t that an argument against this being cultish behaviour then? No one is trying to ignore or downplay how mediocre the base game experience is.
Well, that depends. The OP is kinda downplaying it, this is a huge time investment and not something you can "just play". Sometimes it sounds like a rite of passage (Just get your thetans calibrated for a few dozen hours and you'll unlock endless bliss!).
 

zMiiChy-

Member
Dec 12, 2017
519
Class balance is worse than ever.
Easily the worst aspect of SHB that negates whatever merit the story has.

Don't just take it from me either, last time I checked it was the consensus in game.
 

BizzyBum

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,621
New York
So much of it is about the personal connection you've made with your own character, your own Warrior of Light, that it would never all come across in a Let's Play. There is absolutely something in 250-300+ hours of personal investment that can't be replicated without going on the journey yourself.

But like I keep saying, I absolutely understand why someone would say "fuuuuuuuck that" to over 200 hours of MMO gameplay.
I'm not against MMO's. I have like 2,000 hours playing ESO for one character, I just ain't starting fresh in a new MMO and playing for hundreds of hours to experience an expansion story. It's no fun to rush, anyway.
 

RustyNails

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,192
Complete newb here, but can you play FF14 and it's expansions offline? I'm shit at mmorpgs and with two small kids I can't dedicate enough time to justify an online pass. I'll maybe finish it over a year.
 

steviejd1

Member
Nov 8, 2017
6,342
Class balance is worse than ever.
Easily the worst aspect of SHB that negates whatever merit the story has.

Don't just take it from me either, last time I checked it was the consensus in game.
Not really? The tanks are quite balanced and so are the healers now. DPS has a few balance issues but it's nothing major outside of Ninja being too weak and DRG/MNK being a little too strong. Either way, any job composition can beat any content if the players are good enough. It's still more balanced than WoW.
 

antitrop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,531
Colorado Springs, CO
I'm not against MMO's. I have like 2,000 hours playing ESO for one character, I just ain't starting fresh in a new MMO and playing for hundreds of hours to experience an expansion story. It's no fun to rush, anyway.
Playing it just to get to Shadowbringers is also the wrong mindset, I think. That would never be worth it. There is much to enjoy in all parts of the game.