Yeah, I completely disagree with you. The narrative is not so dramatically tied into YOU personally being the player character. And certainly not on your experiences in past expansions. There are some more minor "Cool" moments, especially a very specific one which I am sure you know I am referring to, that are only as cool as they are because you have a connection with your character, but it is not so vital to the game that it couldn't work without it... and if the exact same effect was desired to be achieved, they could do it with a created character in a single player game anyway. The thing that makes the narrative great isn't you or your character. It's the world, the scenario, the villain, and a few of the supporting characters like Ardbert -- none of which is inherently contingent on you specifically having played a character who went through the stories of ARR, Heavensward, and Stormblood.I disagree that the impact would still be present. The whole of XIV's narrative structure is built around the idea that the player is their character. The cast is only rebooted insomuch as their class roles. Their personalities aren't alien to prior expansions. I don't believe for a second that Shadowbringers would elicit nearly as much regard as a standalone title. For that matter, it would simply be an entirely different game, with a different development approach and likely a different set of minds behind it. It would be similar in concept only. The personal investment you put into your character is part of the narrative's draw - you are the character, and the narrative has treated you this way since ARR. In short it's aimed at you and not at 'the main protagonist'. Yes the idea behind Shadowbringers could be made into a single player RPG. But it would be different from the ground up, with different approaches to narrative and presentation, dialogue, and likely lore. It isn't as simple as taking Shadowbringers, tying some ends, and making it FFXVI. It can only exist as it is because XIV is an MMO with two previous expansions preceding this, that the player has journeyed through and bonded with their character. It is not the same as starting a new game with a fresh protagonist.
How long to beat says just beating it takes 50+ hours. That automatically disqualifies it as being better than my fave FF game.
For just getting through the story playing normally, doing some but not all extra stuff, my usual rounds of grinding, 50+ hours is by far abnormal in the case of jrpgs I generally play. 20-30 hours is average. 40 uncommon, 50 rare, etc. This year first (and last...) time playing Blue Reflection just ta get through it was 18 hours. Ni no Kuni 2 "99%" took only 42 hours despite going all in on its non-main content so just imagine how much shorter it'd have been without that. 7, my fave FF, I can easily clear in around 15 hours just for the story. Even on my earliest playthroughs of 7 of which my ancient save files can attest to, it wasn't taking me 50 hours ta hit the final save point.
Then this topic doesn't make sense. The claim should be "FF14 is better", not the expansion only.
I can't bring myself to agree with your take. It would be executed differently as a single player game not taking the MMO framework into account. Basically an entirely different game. To say nothing of the team working on it. I am all about future FFs taking up the themes in Shadowbringers, though, so we can hope that this serves as influence for future titles.Yeah, I completely disagree with you. The narrative is not so dramatically tied into YOU personally being the player character. And certainly not on your experiences in past expansions. There are some more minor "Cool" moments, especially a very specific one which I am sure you know I am referring to, that are only as cool as they are because you have a connection with your character, but it is not so vital to the game that it couldn't work without it... and if the exact same effect was desired to be achieved, they could do it with a created character in a single player game anyway. The thing that makes the narrative great isn't you or your character. It's the world, the scenario, the villain, and a few of the supporting characters like Ardbert -- none of which is inherently contingent on you specifically having played a character who went through the stories of ARR, Heavensward, and Stormblood.
In regards to the other party members, like I said in my last post, you don't really have to know about any of their prior experiences. The game pretty well establishes who each of these people are and why they're doing what they're doing from this expansion alone. Thancred is potentially the one exception, but you get his whole story, essentially, just by playing through the expansion. Heck, Urianger was, I would argue, barely a character before this expansion -- which is the first time he's been more at the forefront.
As far as eliciting praise, I absolutely believe it would be even wider regarded were it a single player FF and not tied to a MMO that requires you to play several hundred hours first.
As early game goes, spikes of interest at 10 (first pair of guildhests, good xp and teaching), 15 (first dungeon), 20 (first trial and your chocobo mount).Just wanted to say thanks for this thread. I mean, arguments about the "best" FF aside, this got me to reinstall the game and give it another shot after not being able to get into it a couple years ago. Since then I've beaten some of the Xenoblade games, which were kind of an MMO primer for me (literally the only MMO I've played is about 5 hours of FF11), so it's been a comfortable experience so far. Only Lv. 7 and barely out of the first town, but everything is feeling good at the moment, and I absolutely love the soundtrack and fast combat.
Cool! I'm just trying to take my time, learn my bearings, understand my way around menus and such. I don't like having to think about gear degradation, but it seems to happen very slowly, so hopefully it won't get annoying. :)As early game goes, spikes of interest at 10 (first pair of guildhests, good xp and teaching), 15 (first dungeon), 20 (first trial and your chocobo mount).
Yeah there's never really a point where your gear will degrade very quickly, quite forgiving. I forgot to mention that there's also the Hall of the Novice which will also teach things and give rewards (including some gear). That opens at level 15, just look for The Smith in the adventurer's guild in any of the starting cities.Cool! I'm just trying to take my time, learn my bearings, understand my way around menus and such. I don't like having to think about gear degradation, but it seems to happen very slowly, so hopefully it won't get annoying. :)
Is it possible to hire npc mercs to take place of party members like Everquest? Last time I played few years ago with the free trial it took almost a hour to find a party for one of the story dungeons. Quit after the trial was up.
Awesome -- thanks for the tip. It frightens me what this could become if I really get into it, but at the same time, it's exciting to feel like one of these games has finally appealed to me and is holding my interest.Yeah there's never really a point where your gear will degrade very quickly, quite forgiving. I forgot to mention that there's also the Hall of the Novice which will also teach things and give rewards (including some gear). That opens at level 15, just look for The Smith in the adventurer's guild in any of the starting cities.
It can be a hoot, but best enjoyed at your own leisurely pace. There's a lot of content, even side-content.Awesome -- thanks for the tip. It frightens me what this could become if I really get into it, but at the same time, it's exciting to feel like one of these games has finally appealed to me and is holding my interest.
Yeah, I'm enjoying just running around and completing the various sidequests and such. Don't really feel like I've progressed the story at all, and I got to Lv. 10 rather quickly, which is opening up some new things. Very excited to have the weekend ahead of me to dig in deeper! :)It can be a hoot, but best enjoyed at your own leisurely pace. There's a lot of content, even side-content.
I don't doubt Shadowbringers is amazing as I've heard a ton about how good it is, I don't have time anymore to wait several hours for a game to get good or go through a total slog to get through the good parts.
I also have zero desire to suffer through any multiplayer/MMORPG component to get to that good stuff as MMOs really, really aren't my thing. If FF XIV ever introduces a way for solo players to get the full narrative experience while minimizing the grindy elements of base FF XIV, I will very likely play it. Until then, I just can't be bothered even if the story really is that good. :/
EDIT: Sounds like Shadowbringers is locked behind 50 hours of base content that people describe as grindy and formulatic? Yeah, uh, no. I'd love to experience Shadowbringers but I definitely don't have 50 hours to burn to get there.
It's 200+ hours to get to it, not 50 and I was told I was going fast.
But you literally play 3 FF games with the first one being the main issue to get to this one so it's not like you aren't doing anything
"The good stuff" is the entire game.What.
WHAT.
Two hundred hours of grindy MMORPGing to get to the good stuff? Even if the first one is the only really sloggy one... no way. I can't. I don't have anywhere near that kind of time, nor will I probably ever, haha. I'll continue to live vicariously through everyone who loves it and wait patiently for the next single-player FF. :P
Ya, it was like 250 or so for me, I don't remember exactly. Somewhere between 200-300 hours depending on your proclivity to get distracted from the main quest. But it's almost all good stuff.What.
WHAT.
Two hundred hours of grindy MMORPGing to get to the good stuff? Even if the first one is the only really sloggy one... no way. I can't. I don't have anywhere near that kind of time, nor will I probably ever, haha. I'll continue to live vicariously through everyone who loves it and wait patiently for the next single-player FF. :P
Sure, it's a hyperbolic and opinionated title.You know the best way to get people to play a game that you love? Turn it into a pissing contest for no reason other than to be inflammatory.
It is a time investment for sure. Well worth it if you can make the time, but understandably not everyone is in a position to dedicate that or wants to. Grindy isn't the way I'd describe it though. There's just a lot of quests and running around.What.
WHAT.
Two hundred hours of grindy MMORPGing to get to the good stuff? Even if the first one is the only really sloggy one... no way. I can't. I don't have anywhere near that kind of time, nor will I probably ever, haha. I'll continue to live vicariously through everyone who loves it and wait patiently for the next single-player FF. :P
What.
WHAT.
Two hundred hours of grindy MMORPGing to get to the good stuff? Even if the first one is the only really sloggy one... no way. I can't. I don't have anywhere near that kind of time, nor will I probably ever, haha. I'll continue to live vicariously through everyone who loves it and wait patiently for the next single-player FF. :P
What.
WHAT.
Two hundred hours of grindy MMORPGing to get to the good stuff? Even if the first one is the only really sloggy one... no way. I can't. I don't have anywhere near that kind of time, nor will I probably ever, haha. I'll continue to live vicariously through everyone who loves it and wait patiently for the next single-player FF. I'm in the minority who really liked FF XIII and XIII-2 and had a great time with FF XV despite its horrific narrative problems, though, so I don't feel as though I've been going without.
This is where I'm at. I still have a bit to go but I was very taken with the Crystarium, the desaturated eternal light world. The world building, how Eulmore decides to deal with its problems by not dealing with them. The first time thatIt never really takes off. I thought the first half was pretty intriguing, because of the world building, but it leads to absolutely nothing. You can see the twists coming from miles away and everything else was pretty standard rpg-writing.
Again I'm not saying it is bad, I consider it to be the best story ever written in an MMORPG, but it is far away from the best RPGs out there.
I also have zero desire to suffer through any multiplayer/MMORPG component to get to that good stuff as MMOs really, really aren't my thing. If FF XIV ever introduces a way for solo players to get the full narrative experience while minimizing the grindy elements of base FF XIV, I will very likely play it. Until then, I just can't be bothered even if the story really is that good. :/
Pretty much how I feel. If you aren't looking for a heavy narrative and massive multiplayer, it's going to get on your nerves, especially since it likes to lock one behind the other at times.
Soloing in MMOs is boring, but I'm also sick of other people, so I just don't play them anymore.
serious question, because i see a bunch of titles listed in the op, is this better than fft? Zen
It's sublime and now that YoshiP is working on FFXVI apparently ? I'm even more excited for it.
I would say if you love Ivalice and the kind of prose and lore rich storytelling it provides then you'll like XIV. I'd say the quality is on par.serious question, because i see a bunch of titles listed in the op, is this better than fft? Zen
Is there a source for this, I can't find it anywhere? Playing WoW classic is just making me want to play FFXIV...It's sublime and now that YoshiP is working on FFXVI apparently ? I'm even more excited for it.
Is there a source for this, I can't find it anywhere? Playing WoW classic is just making me want to play FFXIV...
Cool, just seems so...early? I can only really compare it to WoW and they've been building off that base game for like foreverI believe we know he is working on a next gen game with the Heavensward team. Not officially confirmed but highly likely it's XVI.
yup its prity clear yoship handed them a lore book/disgin outline and is focusing on that un anounced game. I wont 100% say its ff16, but seems likely.I believe we know he is working on a next gen game with the Heavensward team. Not officially confirmed but highly likely it's XVI.
do pwople think it will be gaas, with mp hocks given yoship background, or pure single players?Cool, just seems so...early? I can only really compare it to WoW and they've been building off that base game for like forever
Yoshi-P is making a new game, and it's far into development
Could it be Final Fantasy XVI?www.tweaktown.com
200 hours to get to the best stuff (which is SHB), the other xpacks are great and ARR has its fair share of greatness (usually the dungeons and trials) amid the good and dull. In no sense imaginable are you waiting 200 hours to get to something good.What.
WHAT.
Two hundred hours of grindy MMORPGing to get to the good stuff? Even if the first one is the only really sloggy one... no way. I can't. I don't have anywhere near that kind of time, nor will I probably ever, haha. I'll continue to live vicariously through everyone who loves it and wait patiently for the next single-player FF. I'm in the minority who really liked FF XIII and XIII-2 and had a great time with FF XV despite its horrific narrative problems, though, so I don't feel as though I've been going without.