Shaming people into voting for an "alleged" rapist is disgusting and shows your privilege (and it doesn't bring people to the polls)

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Village

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,179
Voting for the lesser of two evils is still voting for evil. I choose to vote for good.

But don't worry, I live in Illinois, all EC votes will go to your rapist of choice.
Sure, but IMO in a world where there are quite literally right wing terrorist cells running about the united states. And we are on the verge of a depression due to a global virus that might tip us head first into strait on nazi shit. That will result in people who look like me , being killed in droves. I would argue that inaction in this situation isn't really the moral highground either.
I don't like biden for a multitude of reasons, and him being a creep surprises me none. But as a person of color, noticing these nazi's get more and more bold. I don't see how I can not vote against the guy allowing the nazi's to happen
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
17,665
Is Biden worse than Trump in your opinion? Would 4 years of Biden and a Supreme Court Justice picked by him be worse than 4 more years of Trump and his own SCOTUS nominee? Because that's how I am looking at it. I don't like Biden in the slightest. I don't like his personality, I don't like his opinions on important issues, and I certainly don't like all of the personal statements and issues that surrounds him. But he is still not as bad as Trump and will not do as much damage as Trump.


I know that's a shitty way to look at it, but it's a shit political system in a shit country full of shit people so I don't really have a choice.
Ok but I took issue with you suggesting Biden isn't a racist. If you want to make it about utilitarianism fine but you can do so without whitewashing the fact that Biden is a racist. And honestly has likely done more to push racist policy in this country over his career than Trump will have in 4 years, maybe even 8.
Biden gets a pass on being a racist and a rapist. People just want to look the other way and ignore it. It's absolutely disgusting.
Liberals going full mask off and showing the hypocrisy many of us have been pointing to for years now. These issues they say theyre fighting for are only worth fighting for when its done by republicans. Republicans are the best thing to ever happen to liberals. They can just always point to them as being worse instead of actually having to do better.
 

jay

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,434
The idea of drawing any kind of "both sides" equivalency between the mistakes of the Obama administration and the actual fascist, white supremacist scum in the White House right now is fucking disgraceful.

And this is exactly the type of Trumpian "no angel either" whataboutism that is used by his Republican bootlickers to silence criticism of this administrations unprecedented vile and incredibly damaging actions that an entire generation will have to suffer through for decades.
The refusal to see Dems as anything other than angels is how we have so many liberals in favor of systems and policies that don't actually give a shit about human life.

Also, my actual point was that using images is lazy and manipulative.

Hey maybe the "mistakes" of an administration where the VP is now running for President is relevant to the election. Just a thought. Unless you think it's Trumpian to have an honest discussion about the damage politicians with a D have also done.
It's impossible to have a real discussion further left than Democrats if they shut down criticism as being pro-Trump, and they know this.
 

cagey

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,999
Amazing to not see this moment as a damning indictment of this country and its electoral system and instead a moment to push #VoteBlueNoMatterWho. If so many people are gung ho about electing a rapist, they can do it without me.
As to the latter part of that first sentence, I made no comment on who to vote for and would not make such comments during the workday.

As to the former, you read too much into the absence of words. The absence of my criticism about our electoral system or country at-large doesn't mean I'm A-OK with all of this, or any of this.
 

modestb

Member
Jan 24, 2019
740
Why have literally no news agencies (that I can find) or campaigns picked this up/reported on it?
 
Nov 9, 2017
2,221
If everyone here who would hold their nose and vote for Biden would instead believe the accusuer, rise up, and start campaigns/movements that demand that the DNC essentially force Biden to drop out of the race, things might actually get done that change our country for the better.
 

Shigs

Member
Oct 31, 2017
408
Los Angeles
Voting for the lesser of two evils is still voting for evil. I choose to vote for good.

But don't worry, I live in Illinois, all EC votes will go to your rapist of choice.
It's a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. I don't want to vote for a rapist, but I also don't wanna see more widespread tearing of families by ICE. I don't want to see right-wing "white power" assholes spread their influence even wider than before. I don't want to see our health system go back by decades. I don't want to go on the news and watch someone who calls himself president talk like a selfish, five-year-old child. I can't take it for four more years. I really, REALLY hate this fucking situation.

If you don't want to vote for either then the best thing you can do is vote for Democratic senators in your state and limit Trump's power. Otherwise, we're all fucked.
 

Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
21,722
DFW, Texas
Ok but I took issue with you suggesting Biden isn't a racist. If you want to make it about utilitarianism fine but you can do so without whitewashing the fact that Biden is a racist. And honestly has likely done more to push racist policy in this country over his career than Trump will have in 4 years, maybe even 8.
I never said Biden wasn't racist. I simply called Trump a virulent racist while neglecting to mention Biden own bullshit.
 

Lentic

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,834
Then we need another path toward making society better because we had an entire primary and damn near a year to thin the herd and establish who was good and who wasnt

And it didnt work. The system is broken. Whats the path to fixing it. Ive seen nothing practical suggested to give us hope.

What.. do... We... Do
Hold politicians accountable. The primary is not over and we can avoid having to choose between two rapists. The problem is that people have already accepted Biden. They aren't even willing to challenge him at this point. It's disgusting the lack of energy from a certain "progressive" crowd to hold a rapist accountable.

People should be calling for Biden to drop out, not rationalizing him or shaming others for not wanting to vote for him. The priorities are all out of whack.
 

Serpens007

Member
Oct 31, 2017
3,813
Biden gets a pass on being a racist and a rapist. People just want to look the other way and ignore it. It's absolutely disgusting.
Mental gymnastics to protect their white liberal privileges. You can still support other candidate and stop the "but he wouldn't beat Trump" narrative in order to NOT vote for a racist rapist.

Remember when everyone sided with Warren when Sanders was accused of saying a woman can't win? Yeah, but rape claims are "alleged" (except if it's against someone I don't have an interest in)
 

SoZetaSlow

Member
Sep 20, 2019
1,064
The idea of drawing any kind of "both sides" equivalency between the mistakes of the Obama administration and the actual fascist, white supremacist scum in the White House right now is fucking disgraceful.
They weren't "mistakes" and shouldn't be framed as such. It was very intentional and downright disgusting how Obama tried to cover up all the innocent blood on his hands
 

Josh378

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,695
Man this country really pushed the word picking the Lesser Evil by a lot in 2020. At this point I would rather have Bernie or Warren take a position and run in the General. This is going to be ugly in November because now people are going to think he's just as bad as Trump and sit this one out.
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
17,665
I think most of the shaming comes from people looking at the accusations, and still thinking "Believe Women" means that he is guilty of what she is saying and making a judgement on him. That's not what "believe women" is about. Her claim and accusation should not be discounted, and should be seriously looked into, and not dismissed as a political play or scorned women act of vengeance. It could very well be those things, but jumping to that as the first excuse is just shitty and irresponsible. The accusation should be taken seriously, but to all those saying " I won't vote for him because he is most likely a rapist" is not an appropriate response, yet.

I sincerely hope this accusation is looked into and other people come forward with their stories if it is true. However, I find it suspect that after years of people talking about Biden's overly touchy behavior, none which seems to fit into any sort of sexual predatory category , she is the first and only women to come forward. That sort of behavior, especially of someone of his age and public presence is unlikely to be the only time he has done something of the sort. The man seriously has some boundary issues, but not a single women other than the accuser, has ever said they felt it was some sort of sexual come on to them, and even if it did make them feel uncomfortable it never felt like a sexual intent. This accusation is the first I am aware of, where Biden is accused of malicious sexual behavior.

You couple that with some members here thinking Biden is the devil incarnate, and it seems like some are just looking for anything to throw against him to get him out of the race. More so, they are playing right into the opposing hands, both GOP and alt-right who want you to tear him down over something we frankly don't know much about.

Shaming people into voting for a rapist, or a person with multiple credible accusations is a terrible thing, but that's not what really seems to be happening here. People here seem to be shaming others for rushing to judge him as a rapist, and thus equating him to being "the same as Trump so I just won't vote".

I do want to state, I don't think any of us should be calling this woman a liar or dismissing her claim. It's a serious accusation, and thus it deserves to be seriously looked at, not treated as an already case closed on Biden or dismissed as a political hit.
Disgusting. Absolutely vile and disgusting. Yeah the allegations aren't appropriate enough to disqualify him YET. What with all the numerous incidents of women coming forward about him sexually assaulting them, the video evidence of him doing it and now this, we just simply cant rush to any judgement right now.

If everyone here who would hold their nose and vote for Biden would instead believe the accusuer, rise up, and start campaigns/movements that demand that the DNC essentially force Biden to drop out of the race, things might actually get done that change our country for the better.
Thank you.
 

DrROBschiz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,021
Ok but I took issue with you suggesting Biden isn't a racist. If you want to make it about utilitarianism fine but you can do so without whitewashing the fact that Biden is a racist. And honestly has likely done more to push racist policy in this country over his career than Trump will have in 4 years, maybe even 8.

Liberals going full mask off and showing the hypocrisy many of us have been pointing to for years now. These issues they say theyre fighting for are only worth fighting for when its done by republicans. Republicans are the best thing to ever happen to liberals. They can just always point to them as being worse instead of actually having to do better.
No fuck this

Some of accept the hard fucking fact that we dont have the power to make the world the way we would like it to be

People suck and those with all the power suck even more so to the point that those without have to claw, scratch, grit their teeth and suffer over generations for the most weakest and compromising of changes

Hell some of them dont even last a generation after the battle is won? Voting rights, civil liberties, racism, sexism?

All the victories we were taught about as kids in the history books were fucking fleeting weren't they?

I dont get to shoulder the blame of being a hypocrite and fraud without any true power to make the world what we would all agree would be ideal

this is where some of the divide lies i imagine
 
Jan 11, 2018
3,288
Sure, but IMO in a world where there are quite literally right wing terrorist cells running about the united states. And we are on the verge of a depression due to a global virus that might tip us head first into strait on nazi shit. That will result in people who look like me , being killed in droves. I would argue that inaction in this situation isn't really the moral highground either.
I don't like biden for a multitude of reasons, and him being a creep surprises me none. But as a person of color, noticing these nazi's get more and more bold. I don't see how I can not vote against the guy allowing the nazi's to happen
I hear you. I completely understand anyone voting for Biden over trump even in light of these allegations. And I'm certainly not encouraging inaction, I will still be voting, and doing other things to try and make this world better for everyone. But people need to understand and empathize with people that refuse to vote for old, white, dishonest, racist, misogynistic rapists.
 

N. Tyranno

Member
Nov 6, 2017
2,693
Mental gymnastics to protect their white liberal privileges. You can still support other candidate and stop the "but he wouldn't beat Trump" narrative in order to NOT vote for a racist rapist.

Remember when everyone sided with Warren when Sanders was accused of saying a woman can't win? Yeah, but rape claims are "alleged" (except if it's against someone I don't have an interest in)
There were just as many people calling Warren a snake and a liar during all that, unfortunately.
 

yuoke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,767
4/8 years of Biden will not be progressive.

4 more years of Trump is terrifying.
 

Gigglepoo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,020
Not knocking on you specifically OP, but we really need a politics subforum. Every time I come on this site today there's a new thread about this
Separating political topics from the rest of off-topic would be tougher than any other subject. Politics is a massive part of the world we live, the media we consume, and the decisions we make so cordoning it off would just lead to confusion.
 

MaximumSpider

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,242
Do the working class get abortions?

This just seems disingenuous. Biden can be a shitty person but him being president over Trump changes many things for many people. Especially at a time like this, would Biden have nuked the pandemic response team? Could probably use that right about now.
What is Biden's current stance on abortion? I'm all for it, but I trust neither to be on the same side.
 
Jan 11, 2018
3,288
It's a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. I don't want to vote for a rapist, but I also don't wanna see more widespread tearing of families by ICE. I don't want to see right-wing "white power" assholes spread their influence even wider than before. I don't want to see our health system go back by decades. I don't want to go on the news and watch someone who calls himself president talk like a selfish, five-year-old child. I can't take it for four more years. I really, REALLY hate this fucking situation.

If you don't want to vote for either then the best thing you can do is vote for Democratic senators in your state and limit Trump's power. Otherwise, we're all fucked.
Believe me, I hear you. It really fucking sucks. You are right, and I will absolutely be voting in state and local elections, and encouraging others to do so. This shit has got to stop.
 

Idolvo

The Fallen
Jan 25, 2018
5,261
Amazing to not see this moment as a damning indictment of this country and its electoral system and instead a moment to push #VoteBlueNoMatterWho. If so many people are gung ho about electing a rapist, they can do it without me.
I also love how people who don’t want vote for Biden are told to vote blue no matter what, but if people who are anti Bernie say the same nobody gives a damn.

Nothing wrong with not wanting to vote for a rapist.
Blame the party for putting them on a ticket.
 

DrROBschiz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,021
Hold politicians accountable. The primary is not over and we can avoid having to choose between two rapists. The problem is that people have already accepted Biden. They aren't even willing to challenge him at this point. It's disgusting the lack of energy from a certain "progressive" crowd to hold a rapist accountable.

People should be calling for Biden to drop out, not rationalizing him or shaming others for not wanting to vote for him. The priorities are all out of whack.
The conundrum is that its too late

Its politics. How do you educate the public to separate this as a legitimate reason to alter their view and not view it as a "political tactic"

Did we forget Brett Cavanaugh already?

Can we get the public behind the women and bring down Biden? Maybe but that does not mean a rally behind Bernie

This is an untenable situation. You can't expect this to go the way you think.

It would almost undoubtedly lead to a Trump reelection. Does our conscience reconcile with this as a potential reality?
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
17,665
No fuck this

Some of accept the hard fucking fact that we dont have the power to make the world the way we would like it to be

People suck and those with all the power suck even more so to the point that those without have to claw, scratch, grit their teeth and suffer over generations for the most weakest and compromising of changes

Hell some of them dont even last a generation after the battle is won? Voting rights, civil liberties, racism, sexism?

All the victories we were taught about as kids in the history books were fucking fleeting weren't they?

I dont get to shoulder the blame of being a hypocrite and fraud without any true power to make the world what we would all agree would be ideal

this is where some of the divide lies i imagine
Way to ignore my last response to you after you made a wildly false claim about my post but I'll respond to this as well.

Lets talk about civil rights. Because Joe fucking Biden actively fought against them. Racism? The dude pushed racist policy his entire fucking career and is still reminiscing about the good old days where he worked with Republicans to make it happen, including being the only candidate still defending the most racist piece of legislation he voted for the in the 20th century. Joe Biden didn't fight to make the world ideal. He fought to make it a worse place, and only after being picked as a VP to satiate mid western moderates did he ever even become relevant. Joe Biden is a huge fucking racist and has done more harm in terms of pushing racist policy then Trump could ever dream of in 8 years.
 

krazen

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,014
Gentrified Brooklyn
Ahh, you mean you guys are arguing over having to chose from the least evil candidate?

Welcome to voting as a POC in America! Sit here, stay awhile, have some lemonade. Its been tough being woke all our lives, not necessarily because we are more enlightened but tis a bit wee harder ignoring America’s fucked up ways when its aiming at you. But don’t worry, looking at the world today the times are a’ changin’. You guys are under the gun too now; remember back when you were a kid and you thought objectively politicians were honorable and weren’t huge pieces of shit? I don’t!

So time to weigh that fucked up morality in an America that’s objectively...can I say this now? Evil.
 

Mekanos

Member
Oct 17, 2018
17,725
I was too dumb to understand that you're voting for a hell of a lot more than president when you check that box, but at least I have a clean conscience.
I hope you all enjoy a fully conservative supreme court for the rest of your lives.
So you guys view electing a rapist as acceptable collateral damage and anybody who doesn't fall in line is an idiot?

I just want to understand that this is the viewpoint.
 

Volimar

volunteer forum janitor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,017
Mental gymnastics to protect their white liberal privileges. You can still support other candidate and stop the "but he wouldn't beat Trump" narrative in order to NOT vote for a racist rapist.

Remember when everyone sided with Warren when Sanders was accused of saying a woman can't win? Yeah, but rape claims are "alleged" (except if it's against someone I don't have an interest in)

What? What reality was it that everyone sided with Warren because it certainly wasn't this one? The Sanders supporters in this forum's primary threads and all over the internet called her a liar and a snake and accused her of leaking the event to the press.
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,641
Damn you’re right, Biden has just run THAT good of a campaign!! He truly is charisma personified!! No luck involved, 100% skillz
I think you're misunderstanding me. I'm not stanning for Biden. He was my least favorite choice, other than Bloomberg and Tulsi. His campaign was obviously shit! I am still shocked he won Mass despite having zero people or offices here. But voters also pretty plainly like him way more than Bernie or Warren. Way more. People came out and voted for the first time this year largely for Biden! I live in a bubble but even acknowledging that it is still shocking to me. And I wish that wasn't the case but it was. All I'm saying is, the idea that the DNC and establishment donor class and corporate media were powering his campaign from day one is pretty obviously horseshit given how badly he did with fundraising, how bad his campaign operation was, how often his aides leaked things to the press to run embarrassing or critical stories. He was hardly the establishment's anointed candidate, and as I said, Pete had sucked up a lot more of that oxygen than Biden had until the SC results came in and proved nobody but Biden would be viable to move forward.
 

N. Tyranno

Member
Nov 6, 2017
2,693
If everyone here who would hold their nose and vote for Biden would instead believe the accusuer, rise up, and start campaigns/movements that demand that the DNC essentially force Biden to drop out of the race, things might actually get done that change our country for the better.
For some of us a vote is all we have. You think we can all rise up and start and/or participate in a revolution? The most I can do personally is call and talk to the DNC about how they need to seriously investigate this. I can’t march. I can’t organize. I can’t create a movement. I can’t even leave my house. What more can I do than speak about supporting an alternative on my own meager online platform, and then voting in November?
 

jrush64

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,992
Whew what a passionate topic opening. So passionate. The only thing im going to say on this topic has truly solidified that this site is only for certain liberal internet fake woketivists who are embraced in privilege. The exact same people that truly fail to grasp the concept of lesser evil. The exact same people that didn't say shit when other people who have constantly suffered under previous us presidents had to vote for candidates they don't like.

I can say more but I'd rather not but for certain people, you are not as slick as you think you are.

One thing this fucking forum always always fails to grasp is that life is not black and white and will never be black and white.

Michelle Obama please come and save us.
 

Serpens007

Member
Oct 31, 2017
3,813
What? What reality was it that everyone sided with Warren because it certainly wasn't this one? The Sanders supporters in this forum's primary threads and all over the internet called her a liar and a snake and accused her of leaking the event to the press.
Well okay, I'll change "everyone" with "a lot of people". Wonder how many are now defending Biden
 

yuoke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,767
they will be progressive, they just won't be the perfect uncompromising unrealistic administration some of yall require for the presence of your vote.
Hey I'm not saying me. I'm not a biden fan but have said blue no matter who since forever except bloomberg (then I might have opted out).
 

Malleymal

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,165
Yea trump is a racist, rapist and I have seen what he has done to this country for the last 3 + years. No way that I do not vote him out. Even if the candidate is a rapist. There is no one that will make me not vote and give trump an opportunity to stay in office.
 

Idolvo

The Fallen
Jan 25, 2018
5,261
Also wtf is up with “alleged”, when it was Trump and beery mcbeerface (Cavenough) everyone believed the victims but now suddenly it’s debatable.

Believe the victims you dummies.

And some people wonder why leftists don’t give liberals the benefit of doubt.

Blaming the individual and not the institution is a conservative value on loan to the Democrats from the Republicans.
Ah, makes sense.
 

Leona Lewis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,643
Ahh, you mean you guys are arguing over having to chose from the least evil candidate?

Welcome to voting as a POC in America! Sit here, stay awhile, have some lemonade. Its been tough being woke all our lives, not necessarily because we are more enlightened but tis a bit wee harder ignoring America’s fucked up ways when its aiming at you. But don’t worry, looking at the world today the times are a’ changin’. You guys are under the gun too now; remember back when you were a kid and you thought objectively politicians were honorable and weren’t huge pieces of shit? I don’t!

So time to weigh that fucked up morality in an America that’s objectively...can I say this now? Evil.


TELL IT
 

TaySan

Member
Dec 10, 2018
8,760
I'm surprised the media hasn't picked this up yet? I mean this is a potential president candidate i would think something serious like this would be news worthy and bring some heat to the DNC to act.
 

LegendofJoe

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,543
Arkansas, USA
So you guys view electing a rapist as acceptable collateral damage and anybody who doesn't fall in line is an idiot?

I just want to understand that this is the viewpoint.
The collateral damage of another 4 years of Trump is orders of magnitude greater than electing Biden. He's an abusive dinosaur with mediocre judgment, but he at least lives in the real world. He'll also sign a ton of legislation that will improve the lives of millions of Americans should we be lucky enough to get a DDD trifecta.
 

Zhengi

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
648
You can choose not to vote, but by choosing not to vote, you're choosing to endorse the status quo and the status quo is Trump. *shrug*
 

DrROBschiz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,021
Way to ignore my last response to you after you made a wildly false claim about my post but I'll respond to this as well.

Lets talk about civil rights. Because Joe fucking Biden actively fought against them. Racism? The dude pushed racist policy his entire fucking career and is still reminiscing about the good old days where he worked with Republicans to make it happen, including being the only candidate still defending the most racist piece of legislation he voted for the in the 20th century. Joe Biden didn't fight to make the world ideal. He fought to make it a worse place, and only after being picked as a VP to satiate mid western moderates did he ever even become relevant. Joe Biden is a huge fucking racist and has done more harm in terms of pushing racist policy then Trump could ever dream of in 8 years.
Pointing this out doesnt make Bernir president

Thats the point. I wasnt talking about Biden fighting those battles i was talking about normal people

People who have to think hard about what paths and tools are even reasonably available to create positive change when the deck is hopelessly stacked against it

You wonder how anyone could even consider getting behind someone as flawed as Biden well....
 

Boxxy

Member
Oct 30, 2017
654
He's probably doesn't even finish his term. If I was a betting man, I'd say he goes two years tops before stepping down. And that is another aspect of this. I'm not American and I fucking hate Biden, but at the end of the day, there's a huge chance that voting D this election means you'll be voting for the VP and not the President. Same thing if Bernie somehow won.

Of course, I can't shame or blame anyone for not voting for a rapist. In the last Canadian election, Trudeau's past behavior was certainly a factor in me not voting for him a second time.
I dont mind essentially voting for a VP.

This is all sounding like
"X Scenario > Trump"
 
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