Shaming people into voting for an "alleged" rapist is disgusting and shows your privilege (and it doesn't bring people to the polls)

Cipherr · Mar 26, 2020

Serpens007 said:
Mental gymnastics to protect their white liberal privileges. You can still support other candidate and stop the "but he wouldn't beat Trump" narrative in order to NOT vote for a racist rapist.

Remember when everyone sided with Warren when Sanders was accused of saying a woman can't win? Yeah, but rape claims are "alleged" (except if it's against someone I don't have an interest in)

No... I don't.

CNN: Bernie Sanders told Elizabeth Warren in private 2018 meeting that a woman can't win, Bernie denies(Update: NYT & Buzzfeed Confirming)

The description of that meeting is based on the accounts of four people: two people Warren spoke with directly soon after the encounter, and two people familiar with the meeting. I'm interested to see if Warren responds to this. A simple yes or no to "did he say this?" should be sufficient.

www.resetera.com

I remember not initially believing it. Then when Warren came out herself and confirmed it I remember going "Waaaait, that changes things" and slowing my role to hoping maybe they would settle it behind closed doors and not publicly for the good of the progressive movement. But I do not remember these posters on this forum believing Warren at all. In fact I remember them calling her a liar wholesale after she said it happened. And especially after the debate.

Warren Refuses to Shake Bernie’s Hand After Debate, Bernie Throws Up Hands After They Speak

SEE THREADMARK FOR AUDIO AND TRANSCRIPT OF THE EXCHANGE --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- https://www.mediaite.com/election-2020/watch-warren-refuses-to-shake-bernies-hand-after-debate-bernie-throws-up-hands-after-they-speak/

www.resetera.com

Reuters: “I thought a woman could win; he [Sanders] disagreed,” Warren, a U.S. senator from Massachusetts, said in a statement.

Reuters has reported that Elizabeth Warren confirmed that Bernie Sanders indeed disagreed with her regarding if a woman could become POTUS against Trump...

www.resetera.com

Polymerization said:
"Obama had cages too!" is a common alt right talking point. Y'all need to check yourselves.

We have talked about this before too. A lot of the group that makes up this contingency hated Obama to pieces. Its obvious with ridiculous and completely absurd parallels they try to draw between him and Trump. Meanwhile on the left IRL Obama while imperfect like all Presidents is held as one of the best Presidents in the last 60 years easily. There's a huge disconnect there. And its really why I wasn't shocked to see how many people were surprised after ST.

thefit · Mar 26, 2020

Biden isn't the entire presidency he'll have an entire cabinet that isn't him people that are there looking out for everyone and then there's his VP whoever that may be. I'm not going to not vote for him just based on that and the down ticket. The world isn't this internet bubble and there's to much at stake like literally the continued existence of humanity is at stake. Sorry not sorry I'm a POC that's has kids with way to much on the line.

rashbeep · Mar 26, 2020

Blue Skies said:
The dnc didn't force anyone down your throat
The voters did

so can we blame the voters then

Blue Skies · Mar 26, 2020

Mekanos said:
My overall cause is actually the abolition of the state and the capitalist system that we live in, but for the time being I was willing to settle for a compromise candidate as an olive branch to the liberals and moderates.

good luck with that.

what happens if people don't want that tho?

Instro · Mar 26, 2020

Serpens007 said:
Mental gymnastics to protect their white liberal privileges. You can still support other candidate and stop the "but he wouldn't beat Trump" narrative in order to NOT vote for a racist rapist.

Remember when everyone sided with Warren when Sanders was accused of saying a woman can't win? Yeah, but rape claims are "alleged" (except if it's against someone I don't have an interest in)

I don't really have a dog in this fight, but I'd be hard pressed to say that "everyone" sided with Warren given how she was treated on the internet by Bernie fans. We are like a month removed from her being called a snake, not a progressive, a secret Republican, etc., for not stepping down and supporting Sanders. Similarly I distinctly remember folks shitting all over her for the comments Bernie supposedly made, because "Bernie wouldn't do that".

This situation is very terrible, and people can rightfully choose what they want to do, and hopefully the DNC steps in or whatever, but a lot of the discussion surrounding this just seems to be the usual shit with some camouflage. Some folks are using it as an excuse to browbeat leftists, and some leftists/Bernie-bros are using it as their out to not vote because their guy isn't getting the nod.

Advance.Wars.Sgt. · Mar 26, 2020

MagicDoogies said:
Imagine having 5 fucking months to change course on Biden being replaced and instead of holding the DNC accountable and FORCING their hand to chose someone else than Joe people are spending significantly MORE TIME getting pissed off at people not voting for Biden online.

The general isn't 2 fucking weeks away. We have MONTHS to course correct this, but for some fucking reason in the PRIMARY for gods sakes you all think it's a fucking binary choice. You all knowingly went behind a fucking trash candidate. You all KNEW he had insanely invasive videos of him violating personal space of women. You still backed him.

You've all whole heartedly trash Sanders the moment you didn't have to pretend like him because he called out the DNC specifically for THIS kind of shit that runs rampant in the organization and turned that into 'attacking your allies'. There is no ally ship with this crap. Not me. No way. You had so many different candidates that had less skeletons than fucking Biden. Pete's only downside is what? Bread price fixing? That's so much easier to manage than Joe Bidens shit.

Can people just admit that they only treat these issues as 'win cards' in online arguments? This week especially time and again the most hated users and politicians on this site are those who have a shred of fucking dignity to not compromise on their morals to vote 'against the other guy'. Now the same site that propped 'believe women' because it gave them win points against GAF and MAGAs are making threads and browbeating users who cannot stand to vote for Rapist 1 or Rapist 2 as being no better than Trump voters. Disgusting. Shameful. I'm never going to let this site live this down.

They utilize the pain of minorities and the affected like Yu-gi-oh trap cards. It's goddamn shameful and was already called out when these arguments were targeted towards black era users in the Primary OT/other political discussions.

Masterz1337 · Mar 26, 2020

jviggy43 said:
How cool to downplay sexual assault.

Agar25 said:
I'm not gonna touch the majority of your post that I really don't like or find "brilliant" at all but I'm just gonna say pulling the " well she's the only woman who ever said anything other women were OK with it or didn't find it a big deal" when it comes to a powerful man making women feel uncomfortable, when it comes to what it would take for a woman to come and accuse a powerful man of such a thing ...that's not it, not at all

I suggest you both go back to my previous post to get greater context of what is being said. I've already gone over how his behavior is not okay, but does not constitute sexual assault. Nor did other women who were subject to his behavior. If other women have stories, they absolutely should speak up and people should not dismiss those either. In this case, it is just this one women. And there is always one woman who speaks up and it encourages other women to speak up too. Props to this women for speaking up about her expierence, but as of now, it is the only one that constitutes an example of sexual assault under the law, and considered sexual assault by women who have interacted.

The behavior in the past is wildly inappropriate for any elected official, and especially unnerving for women.

jay · Mar 26, 2020

A system that has us choose every few years how many Nazis we want in power surely isn't broken and terrible, right?

Blue Skies said:
good luck with that.

what happens if people don't want that tho?

Advocate until they do.

Mekanos · Mar 26, 2020

Blue Skies said:
good luck with that.

what happens if people don't want that tho?

I guess we'll find out!

rashbeep said:
so can we blame the voters then

Enough voters saw those pictures and footage of Biden's inappropriate touching and still decided he should be President, so sure.

Amnixia · Mar 26, 2020

Mekanos said:
My overall cause is actually the abolition of the state and the capitalist system that we live in, but for the time being I was willing to settle for a compromise candidate as an olive branch to the liberals and moderates.

Problem is centrists and liberals would rather have 4 more years of Trump then actual progress.

"vote blue no matter what" is their way of telling leftists to fall in line cause they know leftists have nowhere to go in the US.

Coyote Starrk · Mar 26, 2020

Lentic said:
No it isn't.

If people stop being shitty and dismissing sexual assault, then it wouldn't be so hard.

If it's an untenable situation as you say, then Trump has already won. Biden is not going to win with these allegations along with the other stuff.

Trump won despite being caught on tape admitting that he regularly sexually assaulted women. Nothing is for certain.

Zed · Mar 26, 2020

It seems for some people "believe women" only applies when the alleged rapist is a Republican.

TyraZaurus · Mar 26, 2020

emag said:
The primary contest isn't over. Biden only has 1100 of the 1900 delegates he needs to get a majority. Over 1700 delegates have yet to be determined (by future primaries). If enough people care, someone else will be elected as the Democratic nominee.

Then do that. Every bit of pressure we can put on the DNC, the media, Biden, and remaining primary voters counts.

I *have*. But at the same time I also have to look ahead to November.

LegendofJoe · Mar 26, 2020

MagicDoogies said:
Imagine having 5 fucking months to change course on Biden being replaced and instead of holding the DNC accountable and FORCING their hand to chose someone else than Joe people are spending significantly MORE TIME getting pissed off at people not voting for Biden online.

The general isn't 2 fucking weeks away. We have MONTHS to course correct this, but for some fucking reason in the PRIMARY for gods sakes you all think it's a fucking binary choice. You all knowingly went behind a fucking trash candidate. You all KNEW he had insanely invasive videos of him violating personal space of women. You still backed him.

You've all whole heartedly trash Sanders the moment you didn't have to pretend like him because he called out the DNC specifically for THIS kind of shit that runs rampant in the organization and turned that into 'attacking your allies'. There is no ally ship with this crap. Not me. No way. You had so many different candidates that had less skeletons than fucking Biden. Pete's only downside is what? Bread price fixing? That's so much easier to manage than Joe Bidens shit.

Can people just admit that they only treat these issues as 'win cards' in online arguments? This week especially time and again the most hated users and politicians on this site are those who have a shred of fucking dignity to not compromise on their morals to vote 'against the other guy'. Now the same site that propped 'believe women' because it gave them win points against GAF and MAGAs are making threads and browbeating users who cannot stand to vote for Rapist 1 or Rapist 2 as being no better than Trump voters. Disgusting. Shameful. I'm never going to let this site live this down.

The large majority of this forum voted for Sanders or Warren. You are conflating people that understand political reality (i.e. that Biden is likely going to win) and are trying to make the best of it with support of him and his actions.

Mekanos · Mar 26, 2020

Idolvo said:
Problem is centrists and liberals would rather have 4 more years of Trump then actual progress.

"vote blue no matter what" is their way of telling leftists to fall in line cause they know leftists have nowhere to go in the US.

A fellow anarchist suddenly appears!

Yeah, leftists are viewed as either expendable or guaranteed by the DNC. The most important thing we should be doing right now is rebuilding local power in our communities.

Touchdown · Mar 26, 2020

TaySan said:
I'm surprised the media hasn't picked this up yet? I mean this is a potential president candidate i would think something serious like this would be news worthy and bring some heat to the DNC to act.

This is what makes me scratch my head about this whole thing. So far we just have a soundcloud link?

ZealousD · Mar 26, 2020

If Joe Biden is the nominee, I will vote for him.

Biden and Trump are not equally bad.

Exercise harm reduction.

Deleted member 42055 · Mar 26, 2020

Masterz1337 said:
I suggest you both go back to my previous post to get greater context of what is being said. I've already gone over how his behavior is not okay, but does not constitute sexual assault. Nor did other women who were subject to his behavior. If other women have stories, they absolutely should speak up and people should not dismiss those either. In this case, it is just this one women. And there is always one woman who speaks up and it encourages other women to speak up too. Props to this women for speaking up about her expierence, but as of now, it is the only one that constitutes an example of sexual assault under the law, and considered sexual assault by women who have interacted.

The behavior in the past is wildly inappropriate for any elected official, and especially unnerving for women.

This is certainly better than calling it "suspect" at least

PawPrints · Mar 26, 2020

thefit said:
Biden isn't the entire presidency he'll have an entire cabinet that isn't him people that are there looking out for everyone and then there's his VP whoever that may be. I'm not going to not vote for him just based on that and the down ticket. The world isn't this internet bubble and there's to much at stake like literally the continued existence of humanity is at stake. Sorry not sorry I'm a POC that's has kids with way to much on the line.

Yeah, how I feel

jviggy43 · Mar 26, 2020

Masterz1337 said:
I suggest you both go back to my previous post to get greater context of what is being said. I've already gone over how his behavior is not okay, but does not constitute sexual assault. Nor did other women who were subject to his behavior. If other women have stories, they absolutely should speak up and people should not dismiss those either. In this case, it is just this one women. And there is always one woman who speaks up and it encourages other women to speak up too. Props to this women for speaking up about her expierence, but as of now, it is the only one that constitutes an example of sexual assault under the law, and considered sexual assault by women who have interacted.

The behavior in the past is wildly inappropriate for any elected official, and especially unnerving for women.

You blatantly lied about no women claiming sexual assault against Biden, when they did. Second, telling people that this incident isn't something worthy of making a judgement on this situation is fucking disgusting, as if this woman's story and the numerous other stories and incidents of women coming forward about him weren't enough already to make that judgement in the first place. "If other women have stories", youre literally either incredibly ignorant about those other stories or are straight up trying to gas light whats been happening with him over the years. And in either case is a major fuck you to survivors of sexual assault and rape on this site who have to sit here and read your bullshit.

ArrogantBastard · Mar 26, 2020

Touchdown said:
This is what makes me scratch my head about this whole thing. So far we just have a soundcloud link?

I think a huge and potentially understandable portion of it is the fact that the entire country has basically forgotten about the primaries due to the coronavirus.

Starshine · Mar 26, 2020

Coyote Starrk said:
I'm looking at it as voting AGAINST Trump rather than FOR Biden. And yes it's complete shit that it's come to this, but 4 more years of Trump will literally destroy this country and it's laws because he will likely get to replace at least one other Supreme Court Justice. And that cannot be allowed to happen.

This election is for alot more than just the President of the United States. It's for our legal system for the foreseeable future.

Sometimes when one evil is much greater than the other, you do have to vote against one evil in favor of the lesser one.

Not always, and not in every election, but sometimes, some elections, are just that: Shitty Choice The Game: Welcome to Reality.

It's a shitty position to find yourself in but life can be filled with shitty decisions that have to be stomached for the sake of a better future reality.

But for those that can't stomach that choice I can't hold it against them.

But if they are not voting for the lesser evil to enable the greater evil, then I can hold it against them.

Amnixia · Mar 26, 2020

Mekanos said:
A fellow anarchist suddenly appears!

Yeah, leftists are viewed as either expendable or guaranteed by the DNC. The most important thing we should be doing right now is rebuilding local power in our communities.

Hopefully people are gonna wake up and start looking out for everyone's interest outside of their own!

Reformation is needed.

stressboy · Mar 26, 2020

I'll vote for his running mate.

Cantaim · Mar 26, 2020

I honestly do not care who anyone votes for. I don't participate in this forums election primary threads but on occasion I'll pop into political threads to state my mind on some subjects. But other than that it ain't worth it. I'm the only democrat in my family so I'm used to just having to block out random jabs lol

Mekanos · Mar 26, 2020

Touchdown said:
This is what makes me scratch my head about this whole thing. So far we just have a soundcloud link?

A claim of sexual assault against the Democratic frontrunner - who is also the VP of Barack Obama - will not be handled lightly. It's surely being rigorously and thoroughly investigated as we speak.

Also corona.

Lentic · Mar 26, 2020

Coyote Starrk said:
Trump won despite being caught on tape admitting that he regularly sexually assaulted women. Nothing is for certain.

Trump is an unapologetic shithead. The people who supported him knew what they were getting. That's not the case with Biden who is running for the supposed progressive party.

MagicDoogies · Mar 26, 2020

ApatheticDolphin said:
Republicans have no problem falling in line and that's why they win

They also consistently field candidates most of the various bases have no issues supporting.
if you want people to 'fall in line' for Democratic candidates than stop backing moderates that reach across the aisle constantly to play patsy with some of the worst Republicans.

Turin · Mar 26, 2020

I'll vote to cut our losses and try to salvage the court. One gross piece of shit winning will result in greater human suffering than the other gross piece of shit.

That said, I have zero confidence in Trump being defeated in November. The Democratic Party really fucked this up.

TyraZaurus · Mar 26, 2020

Idolvo said:
Hopefully people are gonna wake up and start looking out for everyone's interest outside of their own!

Reformation is needed.

A fine thing to say when you're not one of the people that revolution and anarchy tends to chew up and spit out, even in the best of scenarios.

Orb · Mar 26, 2020

Polymerization said:
"Obama had cages too!" is a common alt right talking point. Y'all need to check yourselves.

So we should just accept all of Obama's flaws (like, y'know, war crimes)?

We absolutely have to stop giving people a pass because they have a D next to their name. This system is broken.

B-Dubs · Mar 26, 2020

We currently have 3 threads on the same discussion, with different framings. We have rebooted the topic in a new thread, please continue discussion here: https://www.resetera.com/threads/on-the-merits-of-voting-ot-discussion-guidelines-in-op.177436/

Shaming people into voting for an "alleged" rapist is disgusting and shows your privilege (and it doesn't bring people to the polls)

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