Shawn Layden blames publishers and developers for lack of PlayStation crossplay (Up: Wargroove dev Chucklefish responds in thread - "We were told no")

Nov 2, 2017
223
Except in the paragraphs before it you get the same old deflective crap:

This is why Layden shouldn't do PR.
Actually, this is a sign that the media training works. From Sony's perspective, this is Layden showing that he's good at doing this. He's not throwing out a bunch of nonsense because he's scrambling, he's throwing it out because those are the PR-developed defenses and he's employing them.

The whole point is that the company wants him to follow a script, and he's following it to the letter. The real thing on display here isn't that Layden is bad at PR, but that Layden is good at following a bad PR script.

I'm asking you if they were denied access to console cross play or is their request pending?
There's a very good chance that Sony's not denying literally anyone, but instead is just only approving games that are big enough that an outcry could occur. So if they're afraid about you making waves, you get an approval, but if you're not, your application for crossplay will remain pending until such a time that you become too big to ignore.

Saying "well, those applications haven't been denied, they're just pending" is a bad defense.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,874
This is not the case here is it.

Are you sure he's lying? Is there a different procedure of crossplay request?

I'm asking you if they were denied access to console cross play or is their request pending?
They asked year(s?) ago with the Xbone launch. And then several months ago with the launch PSN crossplay “beta.”

They still don’t have crossplay in their games. Is it “pending?” How the fuck so we know?

All we do know is that Hi-Rez have several games that are ready to support crossplay immediately, but Sony won’t let them. The end.
 
Jan 20, 2019
391
They asked year(s?) ago with the Xbone launch. And then several months ago with PSN crossplay “beta.

They still don’t have it. Is it “pending?” How the fuck so we know?

All we do know is that Hi-Rez have several games that are ready to support crossplay immediately, but Sony won’t let them. The end.
Why they dont just remove the games for ps? They could work.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,105
London
what else could that possibly mean in this context? lol

we're in a thread about shawn layden saying that, no, there are no gates to full fat crossplay. just talk to your playstation rep.

I want to see the receipts aka the games that reflect that

that's literally all it could mean

I've gotta stop this back and forth though. tbh I don't know what place you're approaching these discussions from and this is too circular. cheers
Alright, no problem. If/when they ever deny a reasonable request for console cross-play, I won't hold back my disdain.
 
Oct 30, 2017
1,486
Australia
This is Sony we are talking about, nothing is ever so simple for them.

That said, since when did pending equate to denial of service?



We are only 6 months in console cross-play on PlayStation, things are going to change, don't worry.

As for going public, I don't think these devs care.
It is more that pending is at this moment so close in partnership to denial because it shouldn't be this hard to begin with, especially when we've got "pending" titles that have devs publicly shaming Sony for no word of feedback. I definitely agree with you that it will ramp up as we go further down the path, as Nintendo, PC, Microsoft and mobile all openly accept it, and that pressure is huge for just one company even with the success they have standing against it.
 
Oct 28, 2017
3,127
Someone needs to explain to him it's not about filling up lobbies with more players... It's about being able to play with your god damned IRL friends from different platforms.

But then, he already knows this. He knows that wanting to play with your friends is one of the motivating factors behind choosing a platform. He wants to leverage the largest console player base against the competition for an extra 0.001% of revenue.
That sounds familiar.
 
Jan 11, 2018
1,640
I don’t know how easy or difficult it actually is, other than Sony has to explain and/or make excuses whereas Microsoft to the best of my knowledge just makes it happen.

So unless I’m just not understanding this correctly, which is possible because I don’t play multiplayer games much so this isn’t on my personal radar, it seems like it’s somewhere on the spectrum of disingenuous PR speak and really awkward implementation that is inferior to the competition. Even at face value it’s lacking.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,315
Era: “Sony is shit! They are holding back crossplay! Hold em to the fire!”

Shawn Layden: “We’re open for business. Just get with your PS manager and get it set up!”

Era: “You’re lying! You just want specific 3rd parties! Hold em to the fire again!”

Somewhere the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. Sony probably is open to it now, but there’s a lot more to opening up a game for crossplaybfrom 3rd party developers than just flipping a switch and letting everyone play with each other.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,874
Alright, no problem. If/when they ever deny a reasonable request for console cross-play, I won't hold back my disdain.
Refusing to approve might as well be a denial.

This crossplay “beta” bullshit started what, 6 months ago? So Hi-Rez has been waiting for 6 months with no approval? They were ready to flip the switch 6 months ago. What’s the hold up?

Even calling crossplay a “beta” in the first place is disingenuous. Sony is not testing any tech here. The devs have handled everything themselves. Sony is calling it a beta so they can continue to hamstring devs who want to add crossplay to their games. It’s bullshit spin designed to mask the fact that they’re still being shitty.
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,568
When we did turn it on, light it up, we wanted to make sure we had thought out all the different ramifications of cross-play, cross-purchase, cross-progress, Those are all three very discreet aspects of what cross-play is, and there are decisions you make in provisioning those different pieces of it that if you make it quick and hasty, and the wrong decision, you can put yourself in a corner really fast, and that prevents scalability over time and the ability to bring people in in a secure and safe way.
That doesn't explain why they can do cross-play with PC so easily now
 
Jan 20, 2019
391
Refusing to approve might as well be a denial.

This crossplay “beta” bullshit started what, 6 months ago? So Hi-Rez has been waiting for 6 months with no approval? They were ready to flip the switch 6 months ago. What’s the hold up?

Even calling crossplay a “beta” in the first place is disingenuous. Sony is not testing any tech here. The devs have handled everything themselves. Sony is calling it a beta so they can continue to hamstring devs who want to add crossplay to their games. It’s bullshit spin designed to mask the fact that they’re still being shitty.
The beta started in November.
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,228
As ever, just work with your PlayStation account manager, and they will walk you through the steps that we’ve learned through our partnership with Epic on how this works.
I feel like one of those steps might be "wait six months".
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,938
Era: “Sony is shit! They are holding back crossplay! Hold em to the fire!”

Shawn Layden: “We’re open for business. Just get with your PS manager and get it set up!”

Era: “You’re lying! You just want specific 3rd parties! Hold em to the fire again!”

Somewhere the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. Sony probably is open to it now, but there’s a lot more to opening up a game for crossplaybfrom 3rd party developers than just flipping a switch and letting everyone play with each other.
Explain why crossplay with PC is so easily done(and approved) whereas crossplay with Switch and X1 is so "hard".

It's pretty much literally flipping a switch. The PS4 being the ONLY console that still has such problems to get games to crossplay with other platforms means that the problem is with Sony, not the developers.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,818
Explain why crossplay with PC is so easily done(and approved) whereas crossplay with Switch and X1 is so "hard".

It's pretty much literally flipping a switch. The PS4 being the ONLY console that still has such problems to get games to crossplay with other platforms means that the problem is with Sony, not the developers.
Psyonix also literally said it was flipping a switch and that all the work was done, it was just being stopped by sony years ago.

There is not a technical hurdle stopping this.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,938
Psyonix also literally said it was flipping a switch and that all the work was done, it was just being stopped by sony years ago.

There is not a technical hurdle stopping this.
Also the games that had console crossplay enabled "by mistake" on a few games, only to have that feature disabled after Sony realized it was happening. It's fucking insane people are STILL defending Sony on this matter.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,315
Psyonix also literally said it was flipping a switch and that all the work was done, it was just being stopped by sony years ago.

There is not a technical hurdle stopping this.
No, but there is still the regular corporate bureaucracy and buttons they need to be pushed to make that determination. In the end, we’ll see if devs follow Layden’s advice and get in touch with the PS managers to turn it on.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,105
London
There's a very good chance that Sony's not denying literally anyone, but instead is just only approving games that are big enough that an outcry could occur. So if they're afraid about you making waves, you get an approval, but if you're not, your application for crossplay will remain pending until such a time that you become too big to ignore.
This is a peculiar assumption, kind of scummy if true. But I don't buy it.

Saying "well, those applications haven't been denied, they're just pending" is a bad defense.
What am I defending here? Asking questions for the sake of clarity is just that.


They asked year(s?) ago with the Xbone launch. And then several months ago with the launch PSN crossplay “beta.”

They still don’t have crossplay in their games. Is it “pending?” How the fuck so we know?
We know because they've clarified their position. They've asked Sony multiple times but haven't received a clear answer yet = case pending .

All we do know is that Hi-Rez have several games that are ready to support crossplay immediately, but Sony won’t let them. The end.
This isn't true. They're ready when Sony is, let Sony decide first.

It is more that pending is at this moment so close in partnership to denial because it shouldn't be this hard to begin with, especially when we've got "pending" titles that have devs publicly shaming Sony for no word of feedback.
I understand where you're coming from. I just need some clarity on this, devs do too.

I definitely agree with you that it will ramp up as we go further down the path, as Nintendo, PC, Microsoft and mobile all openly accept it, and that pressure is huge for just one company even with the success they have standing against it.
Beta should hopefully end soon. Just open it for everyone.
 

2n2

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,237
It seems painfully obvious Sony is being dragged kicking and screaming towards crossplay, and it's really only the massive games forcing their hand.
Such as:
Following a comprehensive evaluation process, SIE has identified a path toward supporting cross-platform features for select third party content.
At some point they'll have to completely cave, but I think from their perspective, the later it is, the better. I really don't buy their explanations contrary to this.
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,562
they are literally holding the feature till PS5 reveal and its obvious. They want that to be their pro-consumer feature saying "we care about the players, we heard you loud and clear". It's so obvious with all the PR spin they have been throwing they are just holding it for good news.
 
Nov 2, 2017
223
This is a peculiar assumption, kind of scummy if true. But I don't buy it.
What seems more likely?

1) Devs who already have existing cross-play infrastructure that works on everything but PS have been complaining about being unable to do cross-play but just haven't bothered to talk to the people they need to talk to in order to get it done.
2) The devs have done that, but for some reason Sony requires over 6 months of internal bureaucracy before they can give a thumbs up or thumbs down.
3) Sony's afraid of issuing explicit denials and so has simply been sitting on requests rather than denying them.

What am I defending here? Asking questions for the sake of clarity is just that.
I might suggest that you're being a little obvious by clearly invoking "just asking questions" like that.
 
Dec 26, 2017
215
This is news to me. What game?
They're probably thinking of Final Fantasy XI, which did cross play between PS2, PC and Xbox 360.

Though, any discussion of online policies for the PS2 era are a bit disingenuous IMO. Sony had no policies back then. PSN did not exist. Every game needed its own account, and it was every developer for itself at the time. PS3 was the first time you had a unified account, and Sony became more involved in the control aspect.
 
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2n2

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,237
1) Devs who already have existing cross-play infrastructure that works on everything but PS have been complaining about being unable to do cross-play but just haven't bothered to talk to the people they need to talk to in order to get it done.
Maybe the account managers have just been on vacation this whole time.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,874
We know because they've clarified their position. They've asked Sony multiple times but haven't received a clear answer yet = case pending
What is that position, exactly? Allow crossplay in Fortnite (after nearly a year of massive backlash) and no other games? Because that’s what they’ve done. I don’t give a shit what some talking suit says.

This isn't true. They're ready when Sony is, let Sony decide first.
It is true. They were ready last year when the game launched on Xbox. They were literally ready to flip the switch.

As for “They're ready when Sony is, let Sony decide first,” I’m at a loss for words. What a disgusting take.
 
Nov 2, 2017
223
We have no clue what talks have been had between Sony and Hi Rez or where they are in that conversation. It’s obvious they are open to it now, so now it’s the waiting game.
OR:

Sony's not happy with the idea of cross-play, but recognizes that some games are big enough to have a cross-play argument that causes them PR problems. So they create a "beta" for cross-play that allows them to green-light cross-play for the games that are big enough to cause them public headaches while continuing to deny anyone who's small enough that they can be ignored.
 

mazi

Banned
Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,477
lol yeah, that's a garbage excuse that most people, specially devs, won't buy
i'm sure it'll work on certain people tho and they'll reference it the next time another dev complains about cross play being blocked for their game by sony
 
Oct 25, 2017
462
User Warned: Using paid corporate booster / shill rhetoric
This is a peculiar assumption, kind of scummy if true. But I don't buy it.



What am I defending here? Asking questions for the sake of clarity is just that.




We know because they've clarified their position. They've asked Sony multiple times but haven't received a clear answer yet = case pending .



This isn't true. They're ready when Sony is, let Sony decide first.



I understand where you're coming from. I just need some clarity on this, devs do too.



Beta should hopefully end soon. Just open it for everyone.
How much are you getting paid, my dude?
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,105
London
Ah, I see. You learn something new everyday.

What seems more likely?

1) Devs who already have existing cross-play infrastructure that works on everything but PS have been complaining about being unable to do cross-play but just haven't bothered to talk to the people they need to talk to in order to get it done.

2) The devs have done that, but for some reason Sony requires over 6 months of internal bureaucracy before they can give a thumbs up or thumbs down.

3) Sony's afraid of issuing explicit denials and so has simply been sitting on requests rather than denying them.
1. Unlikely
2. Likely
3. Unlikely

I might suggest that you're being a little obvious by clearly invoking "just asking questions" like that.
I don't appreciate your suggestion. I'm not the one sharing far fetched assumptions.

They're probably thinking of Final Fantasy XI, which did cross play between PS2, PC and Xbox 360.
Console cross-play all the way back on PS2, that's something.
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,568
Could have something to do with allowing PC cross play since last gen.
Precisely. They have years of experiences with countless thoughts on "all the different ramifications of cross-play, cross-purchase, cross-progress" on a open platform, yet they are getting leap-frogged by other platforms (such as Nintendo) who have much lesser experiences.