Shawn Layden blames publishers and developers for lack of PlayStation crossplay (Up: Wargroove dev Chucklefish responds in thread - "We were told no")

Oct 27, 2017
3,774
Why do people insist on trying to explain the business reasons Sony wouldn’t want crossplay as thought they invalidate the consumer’s interests? Like obviously Sony don’t want to put themselves in a position where they may sell less software, everyone knows that. But it’s still a consumer driven industry and you, as the consumer, should always put what’s best for you ahead of rationalising why any company would make any decision based around profit and market share
THANK YOU
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,774
I mean, MS still charges for F2P and that hasn't changed. That's a fact there too. That's a discussion for a different day.

Epic RE: Crossplay and how it's inevitable.
His point was that it’s a deflection though. Whatever is going on with mS and their policy with playing f2p games, has absolutely nothing to do with crossplay. Talking about it just draws attention away from the topic and is just used as an example for another conglomerate with another unfavorable business practice that affects their consumers in a way they don’t appreciate.
 
Oct 26, 2017
411
Why do people insist on trying to explain the business reasons Sony wouldn’t want crossplay as thought they invalidate the consumer’s interests? Like obviously Sony don’t want to put themselves in a position where they may sell less software, everyone knows that. But it’s still a consumer driven industry and you, as the consumer, should always put what’s best for you ahead of rationalising why any company would make any decision based around profit and market share
Incredibly well said.
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,577
They haven't specified, but they've both gone to Twitter to publicly call Sony out on not giving them the go ahead. So either they said no, or they've not been responding.

No clear rules? Wow, that’s big because this means ultimately at the moment, devs have no idea how to meet the requirement for crossplay, and reinforce that its not the dev’s fault in anyway.
 
Fuck what Sony says about how crossplay works. They are a conglomerate that makes hardware, and their software is 1st party which doesn’t concern crossplay at all.

On the other hand, 3rd party developers, y’know, the people who actually make crossplay a reality...HAVE said it is the flip of a switch. It’s been said here about Wargroove from the CEO himself, it’s been said by Psyonix, and it’s literally been done unofficially with Fortnite. So yes. It is that easy and Sony is just making it sound complicated COZ THEY DONT WANNA DO IT.
Exactly.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,294
The more logical conclusion is that Fortnite and Rocket League were able to satisfy Sony's requirements.
Then tell us. What is it that Sony wanted from chuckle fish? For all of us to laugh at Sony, if that were the case.
not that your antics are news to anyone who remembers your name, but I just thought it was funny how you pushed this narrative and then vanished into the night the moment reality challenged it.

Which I guess makes this the punchline:

I think it is pretty obvious that some people do not want to know the why behind certain happenings. Nothing terribly wrong with that though.
Can anyone say 'lawl'?
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,774
I, as a forum goer, am interested in these details. While they are not obliged to divulge the details, I have every right to be curious about the requirements that the developer did not want to fulfil, which may or may not have been reasonable. We can only be grateful to the degree that chuckle fish is willing to share.
You’re still a consumer, though. We’re also all forum goers here, so that point is irrelevant.

You’re almost making it sound like you’re entitled and haven’t gotten enough disclosure over why Chucklefish was rejected. And yes, we should be grateful that Tiy decided to post to shed any light at all in the situation.

Now, as far as you asking for details go, what exactly are you looking for? Do you want him to write out the dialogue that went by in the phone conversation between him and the AM or something? Because as far as I’m concerned in my seat here as a gamer, all the details needed to explain the situation have been shared. Chucklefish expressed interest in having the Ps4 version of their game share crossplay with the other platforms, but Sony won’t allow it.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,774
I really, really don't appreciate selective quoting. What's follows it directly is "As ever, just work with your PlayStation account manager, and they will walk you through the steps that we’ve learned through our partnership with Epic on how this works. " So you do need to talk to an account manager and go though the steps they've laid out for it to happen.
??? That is exactly what Chucklefish did! Wtf with this thread man and even if he quoted out of context, if whatever preceded or followed that like in Layden’s statement implied something different, then he would be contradicting himself.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,774
What obligation does Sony have to reveal sensitive and proprietary partnership information to appease a bunch of people in niche enthusiast circles? I'd be far more interested in seeing how the studios making the claims that Sony won't play ball are approaching the topic with their AMs.
If Sony is under no obligation to share more information then the developers are under no such obligation either.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,774
not gonna lie, disappointed in the mods for changing the title to fan the flame wars currently going on in here right now

EDIT: since common sense is less common than i thought, the disappointment is from the redundant changing of a particular word, which only seemed to have made the fighting *even* worse. it has nothing to do with mentioning the developers reaction. as for people who think i "wanted the thread to go a certain way" the OP is literally just shawn's quote and the entire direction and premise of this thread was already refuting what Shawn was saying all the way from Page 1, so not exactly sure what "direction" i was aiming for lmao
What was the previous title?
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,774
If they have no way to backup their claims, they shouldn't be making them. Once again, the nuance that's missing is critical for passing judgement here if you're actually trying to be fair, which most people aren't. They're just siding with the smaller side because reasons.
Yeah, I’m siding with the smaller side because “reasons”

My reasons are:
-I want crossplay. I want to be able to to play Minecraft and Black ops 4 with my friends who have Xbones. That would make my experience playing my Ps4 online more enjoyable.
-Sony in the past said because of their player base who are extremely young, they don’t want to crossplay with other networks. This was a Jim Ryan comment. Yet, they allow that exposure with their extremely young children and those who play on PC.
-Sony in the past said their player base should not want crossplay because Ps4 is the “best place to play”. Well right now, XBL has something that PsN doesn’t, and that is the ability to play with those on Switch. So, how could Ps4 be the best place to play if it’s lacking something that the competition has?
-Lastly and most recently this thread. My final reason with siding with the smaller side is because Layden said something that contradicts all the other points I made in this post, AND it contradicts what Chucklefish said.

So yeah. Every single step Sony has taken with crossplay is of a company that does not want to do it in the first place.
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,056
Yeah, I’m siding with the smaller side because “reasons”

My reasons are:
-I want crossplay. I want to be able to to play Minecraft and Black ops 4 with my friends who have Xbones. That would make my experience playing my Ps4 online more enjoyable.
-Sony in the past said because of their player base who are extremely young, they don’t want to crossplay with other networks. This was a Jim Ryan comment. Yet, they allow that exposure with their extremely young children and those who play on PC.
-Sony in the past said their player base should not want crossplay because Ps4 is the “best place to play”. Well right now, XBL has something that PsN doesn’t, and that is the ability to play with those on Switch. So, how could Ps4 be the best place to play if it’s lacking something that the competition has?
-Lastly and most recently this thread. My final reason with siding with the smaller side is because Layden said something that contradicts all the other points I made in this post, AND it contradicts what Chucklefish said.

So yeah. Every single step Sony has taken with crossplay is of a company that does not want to do it in the first place.
Yesterday, I got to play Rocket League with my son, on a NOT-Split screen for the first time ever - he used the PC, I was on PS4 - it was SOOO nice.

Honestly, if PS5 still has a general air of bullshittery around cross play, I'll go to MS for the first time, Cross play is going to be a standard feature I think though.

(I also am curious about cross play and 'esports / competitive play', and if it is 100% implemented, will this bring out "Factory" teams (using an F1 / Racing term) - I think its a really cool potential outcome).
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,450
Yeah, I’m siding with the smaller side because “reasons”

My reasons are:
-I want crossplay. I want to be able to to play Minecraft and Black ops 4 with my friends who have Xbones. That would make my experience playing my Ps4 online more enjoyable.
-Sony in the past said because of their player base who are extremely young, they don’t want to crossplay with other networks. This was a Jim Ryan comment. Yet, they allow that exposure with their extremely young children and those who play on PC.
-Sony in the past said their player base should not want crossplay because Ps4 is the “best place to play”. Well right now, XBL has something that PsN doesn’t, and that is the ability to play with those on Switch. So, how could Ps4 be the best place to play if it’s lacking something that the competition has?
-Lastly and most recently this thread. My final reason with siding with the smaller side is because Layden said something that contradicts all the other points I made in this post, AND it contradicts what Chucklefish said.

So yeah. Every single step Sony has taken with crossplay is of a company that does not want to do it in the first place.
I was banned for "conspiracies against developers" over this shit so I'm out of discussing any more industry stuff on ERA for the rest of my stay.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,774
Layden's quote is dumb, misleading and uninformed, but if you're willing to give it a calm look, he's indeed not "blaming" dev in any way. That title is really inflammatory and not a single decent journalist so far used a similar wording to report the story. Era was never exactly the best place if you want to have sensible and moderate talk about cross-play, but still I wasn't expecting mods to take this angle.

As an example, Sal used this one for Gematsu : Sony’s Shawn Layden says PS4 “open for business” on cross-play, but Wargroove developer says, “we were told no”

Here is how you highlight objectively the profound contradiction (that Sony need to explain) without injecting useless evil intentions into Layden's words.

And to quote Finn Brice himself (Chucklefish CEO) whose interventions have been excellent and necessary :
He reason the word “blame” is there the way I see it, is because Layden is making it seem like it is the developer’s fault for no crosssplay. Interviewer asks, “why isn’t there more Ps4 to Xbone and Switch play?” And he basically says “I don’t see why not, so if they want it, all they gotta do is reach out.”
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,774
Is it wrong I want Sony to fix this more to get people to STFU than for the actual reasons I should want it fixed?
Yes. If people complaining about this is bothering you, all you have to do is not visit threads that talk about it or not go to YouTube videos or video game news articles that are covering it. It doesn’t have to concern you if it bothers you but if you come into the thread to see what people who care about it are saying then you’re basically just asking for it.
 
Nov 10, 2017
1,424
Reading the tea leaves here but I wouldn’t be surprised if Sony has a poor showing next gen. The higherups seem to be pretty disconnected from the consumer, which is the total opposite of the ps4 launch.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,413
NYC
What was the previous title?
The topic was originally aimed with the intention of putting Sony in a positive light and adding the Wargroove CEO comment in the title changed that. The OP you're quoting seemed upset because he mentioned the title change a few times, leading some people to ask if that was because the topic direction was different (which is the reason for his added edit in your quote).
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,394
Reading the tea leaves here but I wouldn’t be surprised if Sony has a poor showing next gen. The higherups seem to be pretty disconnected from the consumer, which is the total opposite of the ps4 launch.
I doubt it. They're still nailing the biggest things that matter for most people, such as a lot of quality exclusives and good hardware. They also have a lot of prominent association with plenty of multiplatform franchises and top notch marketing
 
Oct 27, 2017
237
??? That is exactly what Chucklefish did! Wtf with this thread man and even if he quoted out of context, if whatever preceded or followed that like in Layden’s statement implied something different, then he would be contradicting himself.
Dude, how do you know what Chucklefish did? It's normal for an account manager to provide reasoning if a request is denied. I'll give you an example. Pocketwatch Games developed Tooth and Tail which supports cross-play between PS4 and the PC. They are using Trello for project management and it's public somehow which you can see here, https://trello.com/c/ZMeZ07cj. Apparently they missed their target date for launching the cross-play feature because one region failed QA. My point is "failed QA" is the reason behind no cross-play for Pocketwatch at the time. It's pretty clear that there should be a reason behind why Chucklefish was told "No", and we have no insights into what Chucklefish did and what Sony said to them beside a resounding "NO".
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,153
Dude, how do you know what Chucklefish did? It's normal for an account manager to provide reasoning if a request is denied. I'll give you an example. Pocketwatch Games developed Tooth and Tail which supports cross-play between PS4 and the PC. They are using Trello for project management and it's public somehow which you can see here, https://trello.com/c/ZMeZ07cj. Apparently they missed their target date for launching the cross-play feature because one region failed QA. My point is "failed QA" is the reason behind no cross-play for Pocketwatch at the time. It's pretty clear that there should be a reason behind why Chucklefish was told "No", and we have no insights into what Chucklefish did and what Sony said to them beside a resounding "NO".
That's the thing though. It's not clear to anyone including publishers/devs.

 
Oct 27, 2017
3,774
Yesterday, I got to play Rocket League with my son, on a NOT-Split screen for the first time ever - he used the PC, I was on PS4 - it was SOOO nice.

Honestly, if PS5 still has a general air of bullshittery around cross play, I'll go to MS for the first time, Cross play is going to be a standard feature I think though.

(I also am curious about cross play and 'esports / competitive play', and if it is 100% implemented, will this bring out "Factory" teams (using an F1 / Racing term) - I think its a really cool potential outcome).
See, this should be the future. Competition is good, but in some ways, cross play is a collaboration among competition too. But I don’t see how that’s a bad thing for the platform conglomerates though.

I still have to have a Ps4. I still have to buy the Ps4 version of the game. I still have to pay for psplus to play online.

I get that crossplay gives those who usually don’t buy playstations one less incentive to buy one to play with their friends who do, but there are so many other things that factor into a consumer’s decision in purchasing a console, that Sony should just give into the benefits of crossplay rather than just fucking worrying about their petty ass opportunity cost.
I was banned for "conspiracies against developers" over this shit so I'm out of discussing any more industry stuff on ERA for the rest of my stay.
Well okay then.
The topic was originally aimed with the intention of putting Sony in a positive light and adding the Wargroove CEO comment in the title changed that. The OP you're quoting seemed upset because he mentioned the title change a few times, leading some people to ask if that was because the topic direction was different (which is the reason for his added edit in your quote).
Oh I see. Well the thing with that is, even if Chucklefish’s edited in title and highlighted post weren’t here, Layden’s comment would still be questionable, based off of everything else Sony had done and said about crossplay. It still would have come off as contradictory. Or it did, since it was changed and it still is, just with proof now.
Dude, how do you know what Chucklefish did? It's normal for an account manager to provide reasoning if a request is denied. I'll give you an example. Pocketwatch Games developed Tooth and Tail which supports cross-play between PS4 and the PC. They are using Trello for project management and it's public somehow which you can see here, https://trello.com/c/ZMeZ07cj. Apparently they missed their target date for launching the cross-play feature because one region failed QA. My point is "failed QA" is the reason behind no cross-play for Pocketwatch at the time. It's pretty clear that there should be a reason behind why Chucklefish was told "No", and we have no insights into what Chucklefish did and what Sony said to them beside a resounding "NO".
I’ve been an account manager before, just not in the video game industry. I trust what Chucklefish is saying because Sony already is acting like a company that doesn’t want to do crossplay. The Fortnite beta seems like it’ll be the biggest crossplay announcement Ps4 will ever have.

Btw, still reading through the thread...I think I made it up to page 27
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,413
NYC
Oh I see. Well the thing with that is, even if Chucklefish’s edited in title and highlighted post weren’t here, Layden’s comment would still be questionable, based off of everything else Sony had done and said about crossplay. It still would have come off as contradictory. Or it did, since it was changed and it still is, just with proof now.

I’ve been an account manager before, just not in the video game industry. I trust what Chucklefish is saying because Sony already is acting like a company that doesn’t want to do crossplay. The Fortnite beta seems like it’ll be the biggest crossplay announcement Ps4 will ever have.

Btw, still reading through the thread...I think I made it up to page 27
Agreed, which is why most of the posts were doubtful and calling Shawn out even before it was proven he was straight up lying for PR purposes. The original post still led to people defending them and attacking the credibility of the devs who were vocal about this, though, on here and other sites. Now that the truth came to light, these same people are nowhere to be found and hoping it dies off, and Sony assuredly hoping for the same thing.
 
Oct 27, 2017
492
Agreed, which is why most of the posts were doubtful and calling Shawn out even before it was proven he was straight up lying for PR purposes. The original post still led to people defending them and attacking the credibility of the devs who were vocal about this, though, on here and other sites. Now that the truth came to light, these same people are nowhere to be found and hoping it dies off, and Sony assuredly hoping for the same thing.
Yeah but Resetera is a place where a tweet from Mike Ybarra has more discussion going on than something as important as cross play. We've had numerous threads on cross play buried and dismissed, fact is until some people are told cross play is a good thing from the company they support then they couldn't give a fuck.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,084
Midwest
User Banned (3 Days) - Inflammatory Generalizaions
Yeah but Resetera is a place where a tweet from Mike Ybarra has more discussion going on than something as important as cross play. We've had numerous threads on cross play buried and dismissed, fact is until some people are told cross play is a good thing from the company they support then they couldn't give a fuck.
If Sony said fk it, and allowed it today, most of yall still wouldn't be satisfied. First it was for Fortnite xplay. You got Fortnite xplay and the replies were: 'watch it only be xplay with switch' or "watch how they blatantly exclude xbox".. and that wasn't the case.

If SL were maliciously lying about something (I'm leaning towards more misconstrued than anything) then that's messed up. But if the core playstation fans are saying they dont give a shit, then they just don't. They (we, as I am a fan) like single player games and RPGs and the thought of some 1000 players multiplayer game makes em wanna puke.

These threads die off quick because they are filled one sided drive bys. There is no discussion to be had. As soon as you oppose any of the comments or try, you get hammered 'corporate apologists' 'fanboy', 'bootlicker' and get reported by mods who'd you think would play it fair, but sadly dont... so, whatever there is /was to talk about, yall won.
 
Oct 27, 2017
492
If Sony said fk it, and allowed it today, most of yall still wouldn't be satisfied. First it was for Fortnite xplay. You got Fortnite xplay and the replies were: 'watch it only be xplay with switch' or "watch how they blatantly exclude xbox".. and that wasn't the case.

If SL were maliciously lying about something (I'm leaning towards more misconstrued than anything) then that's messed up. But if the core playstation fans are saying they dont give a shit, then they just don't. They (we, as I am a fan) like single player games and RPGs and the thought of some 1000 players multiplayer game makes em wanna puke.

These threads die off quick because they are filled one sided drive bys. There is no discussion to be had. As soon as you oppose any of the comments or try, you get hammered 'corporate apologists' 'fanboy', 'bootlicker' and get reported by mods who'd you think would play it fair, but sadly dont... so, whatever there is /was to talk about, yall won.
State of this shit. Posting like you are involved in some kind of hard hitting war. It's not us v you it's fucking people wanting what is best for us as consumers. If you can't see that and only care about your single players games then good for you but don't try and play that off as ''core fans'' because it's embarrassing.
 
Oct 27, 2017
716
If Sony said fk it, and allowed it today, most of yall still wouldn't be satisfied. First it was for Fortnite xplay. You got Fortnite xplay and the replies were: 'watch it only be xplay with switch' or "watch how they blatantly exclude xbox".. and that wasn't the case.

If SL were maliciously lying about something (I'm leaning towards more misconstrued than anything) then that's messed up. But if the core playstation fans are saying they dont give a shit, then they just don't. They (we, as I am a fan) like single player games and RPGs and the thought of some 1000 players multiplayer game makes em wanna puke.

These threads die off quick because they are filled one sided drive bys. There is no discussion to be had. As soon as you oppose any of the comments or try, you get hammered 'corporate apologists' 'fanboy', 'bootlicker' and get reported by mods who'd you think would play it fair, but sadly dont... so, whatever there is /was to talk about, yall won.
There are plenty of discussions to be had. This thread has plenty. It's just once devs confirmed Sony was talking shit they scattered as they knew the jig was up. They can speak up all of the "Business" reasons they want.

I'm a consumer not beholden to a corporate company. And crossplay is something that is coming whether you and other 'core' PlayStation fans hate it.

And let's be upfront here third party dominate the 10 best selling games on PS4. Spiderman and GoW are the only showings for SP only games. You think Sony pays for CoD marketing because those people are coming to play SP games? That's a bonus.

Sports and guns and the so-called 'Dudebro' market powers all that.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,084
Midwest
State of this shit. Posting like you are involved in some kind of hard hitting war. It's not us v you it's fucking people wanting what is best for us as consumers. If you can't see that and only care about your single players games then good for you but don't try and play that off as ''core fans'' because it's embarrassing.
No I'm in no war at all. But have been through all of this in the first crossply thread. Nothing you are saying is new. You're the one acting like this is some life or death situation.. or some type of civil rights movement about video games. I explained to you why these threads die off, and your last post proves it.

There are plenty of discussions to be had. This thread has plenty. It's just once devs confirmed Sony was talking shit they scattered as they knew the jig was up. They can speak up all of the "Business" reasons they want.

I'm a consumer not beholden to a corporate company. And crossplay is something that is coming whether you and other 'core' PlayStation fans hate it.

And let's be upfront here third party dominate the 10 best selling games on PS4. Spiderman and GoW are the only showings for SP only games. You think Sony pays for CoD marketing because those people are coming to play SP games? That's a bonus.

Sports and guns and the so-called 'Dudebro' market powers all that.
I get that. But first, I'm explaining why the vocal 'core' minority, here on era are not filling these threads to talk about this. You're totally right, and those casual players outnumber the core players, but are not vocal here on era. That is the whole point. Obviously their apprehension comes from wanting put their core base first before dipping g into unknown waters. No excuses on their behalf, just how I see this situation.
 
Oct 26, 2017
7,387
Madrid
and get reported by mods who'd you think would play it fair, but sadly dont...
"Am I out of touch? No, it's the people that reported me and the mods that warned me that are wrong.
Hell, I bet they're all the same person!".

When you need to hold onto anything after it's been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that you were wrong.

There are plenty of discussions to be had. This thread has plenty. It's just once devs confirmed Sony was talking shit they scattered as they knew the jig was up. They can speak up all of the "Business" reasons they want.
Yeah, it was kind of hilarious to see them quietly crawl back under their rocks once enough devs backed up Chucklefish that their concern trolling and smear attempts weren't going to cut it anymore. Either that, or...

No I'm in no war at all. But have been through all of this in the first crossply thread. Nothing you are saying is new. You're the one acting like this is some life or death situation.. or some type of civil rights movement about video games. I explained to you why these threads die off, and your last post proves it.
... moving the goalposts from "any indie can get crossplay!" to "nobody cares about crossplay!".