Shawn Layden blames publishers and developers for lack of PlayStation crossplay (Up: Wargroove dev Chucklefish responds in thread - "We were told no")

Oct 27, 2017
4,105
London
What is that position, exactly? Allow crossplay in Fortnite (after nearly a year of massive backlash) and no other games? Because that’s what they’ve done. I don’t give a shit what some talking suit says.
I'm not sure. I don't expect you to give a shit.


It is true. They were ready last year when the game launched on Xbox. They were literally ready to flip the switch.
And Sony wasn't. Now the feature is in beta. Give it more time, if they start denying devs then we'll talk.

As for “They're ready when Sony is, let Sony decide first,” I’m at a loss for words. What a disgusting take.
I don't share your rage, what you find "disgusting" is not my concern.
 

mazi

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Oct 27, 2017
14,477
but there’s a lot more to opening up a game for crossplaybfrom 3rd party developers than just flipping a switch and letting everyone play with each other.
there really isn't, sony have just decided to flip the switch only twice so far (for cross play between consoles).
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,105
London
Precisely. They have years of experiences with countless thoughts on "all the different ramifications of cross-play, cross-purchase, cross-progress" on a open platform, yet they are getting leap-frogged by other platforms (such as Nintendo) who have much lesser experiences.
Companies act strange in position of leadership. They'll fix this.
 
Nov 2, 2017
571
Okay, reading the while article gives better context on their position on crossplay. That quote on the OP just tells half the story. People reacting immediately over the quote probably didn't read the article.

It seems sony, Layden specifically is aware of how this crossplay thing made them look tone deaf. Reading more into it, there are factors they considered as to why they didn't easily allowed crossplay. Most are business decisions of "sharing the playpen" when you have enough kids to play already and how will the flow of money from transactions work if every kid is in the playpen. Really sensible business questions if you ask me.

Now they are caving to the community pressure but they have hoops to go through before getting there. It's a good start for now. From what I see is they are calling it a beta so that they can learn about the ramifications of this new feature. The best way to learn towards a business decision in this case is from the biggest sample size and use case you have.
 
Oct 25, 2017
462
Companies act strange in position of leadership. They'll fix this.
There's nothing strange about it. Sony doesn't want to do it because they feel like they don't have to and that there's no benefit to them and only helps their competitors. What's truely strange is people going out of their way to defend a multi-billion dollar company's anti-consumer practices.
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,683
This is all bullshit. We had a thread about a developer reaching out multiple times, even after the "beta" was announced, and Sony had yet to work with them. Worse yet, this will just give defenders here talking points to cling to, despite all of the evidence pointing to Sony being the problem.

We literally have multiple developers calling them out on this. When does that ever happen in this industry?
 

steviejd1

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Nov 8, 2017
4,062
Okay, reading the while article gives better context on their position on crossplay. That quote on the OP just tells half the story. People reacting immediately over the quote probably didn't read the article.

It seems sony, Layden specifically is aware of how this crossplay thing made them look tone deaf. Reading more into it, there are factors they considered as to why they didn't easily allowed crossplay. Most are business decisions of "sharing the playpen" when you have enough kids to play already and how will the flow of money from transactions work if every kid is in the playpen. Really sensible business questions if you ask me.

Now they are caving to the community pressure but they have hoops to go through before getting there. It's a good start for now. From what I see is they are calling it a beta so that they can learn about the ramifications of this new feature. The best way to learn towards a business decision in this case is from the biggest sample size and use case you have.
Umm...we all know that their stance is based on a business decision. I'm not sure what makes you think otherwise or that we don't know Sony's position on cross-play?

Is it a good business decision to be anti-consumer and anti-developer though?
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,874
I'm not sure. I don't expect you to give a shit.
So how can you act like you know what’s going on? You’re literaly taking corporate PR speak at face value.

And Sony wasn't. Now the feature is in beta. Give it more time, if they start denying devs then we'll talk.
No shit. That’s the entire point.

Fuck “giving it more time.” They’ve had plenty, and now they’re dragging their feet because deep down they don’t want to support this.

There’s no “beta,” nothing to test. Just corporate douchebags trying to delay the inevitable for as long as possible. And you seem happy to lick their boots and believe everything they say. Why?

I don't share your rage, what you find "disgusting" is not my concern.
I find corporate apologism disgusting. Most people do.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,254
Last December, in the Fail Of The Year thread, I said something like "Sony might have finally backed down on Fortnite but now it seems that Paladins is being held up. Sony has to go through a lengthy process to approve every game whereas every other platform, even protective companies like Apple and Nintendo, are fine with it on day one."

Two months later, little's changed.
 
Dec 11, 2017
1,025
Sony's not happy with the idea of cross-play, but recognizes that some games are big enough to have a cross-play argument that causes them PR problems. So they create a "beta" for cross-play that allows them to green-light cross-play for the games that are big enough to cause them public headaches while continuing to deny anyone who's small enough that they can be ignored.
^Bingo
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,105
London
There's nothing strange about it. Sony doesn't want to do it because they feel like they don't have to and that there's no benefit to them and only helps their competitors. What's truely strange is people going out of their way to defend a multi-billion dollar company's anti-consumer practices.
I'm not going to dignify this post with an actual response.

I have reported your previous post aimed at me, hope the mods are watching.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,515
Canada
Era: “Sony is shit! They are holding back crossplay! Hold em to the fire!”

Shawn Layden: “We’re open for business. Just get with your PS manager and get it set up!”

Era: “You’re lying! You just want specific 3rd parties! Hold em to the fire again!”

Somewhere the truth is probably somewhere in the middle. Sony probably is open to it now, but there’s a lot more to opening up a game for crossplaybfrom 3rd party developers than just flipping a switch and letting everyone play with each other.
So Psyonix are liars now. Huh.
And Sony wasn't. Now the feature is in beta. Give it more time, if they start denying devs then we'll talk.
And when they simply say nothing to the devs one way or another? How many months of nothing from Sony is acceptable to you before we’re allowed to call them out on this? Because your statements indicate that Sony could be silent indefinitely and that would be acceptable, since it’s still “pending” without an explicit denial.
 

mazi

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Oct 27, 2017
14,477
lol, i see a certain poster is back at it it again, totally not defending sony, with multi quote posts every two minutes
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,040
So Psyonix are liars now. Huh.

And when they simply say nothing to the devs one way or another? How many months of nothing from Sony is acceptable to you before we’re allowed to call them out on this? Because your statements indicate that Sony could be silent indefinitely and that would be acceptable, since it’s still “pending” without an explicit denial.
No they are not liars but I have no doubt it's something in the middle.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,105
London
User Warned: Hostility and personal attacks
So how can you act like you know what’s going on?
I'm not posting absolute statements or condemning either side. You are.

You’re literaly taking corporate PR speak at face value.
I wouldn't be here asking questions if this was the case.


No shit. That’s the entire point.

Fuck “giving it more time.” They’ve had plenty, and now they’re dragging their feet because deep down they don’t want to support this.
You're stating the obvious, we know they intend to support console cross play.

There’s no “beta,” nothing to test. Just corporate douchebags trying to delay the inevitable for as long as possible.
What kind of nonsense argument is this?

And you seem happy to lick their boots and believe everything they say. Why?
You just had to be a dick didn't you. Fuck off.

I find corporate apologism disgusting. Most people do.
I'm tired of this nonsense, as if neutrality doesn't exist.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,040
The only middle here is the one Sony artificially created for its own benefit.
No, that's not the case at all and they have said they will do cross play but you have people yelling in here about arrogant sony and how sony is doing it all wrong and not allowing crossplay when we have an executive saying something different. So yeah I question both sides of it.
 

mazi

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Oct 27, 2017
14,477
I'm tired of this nonsense, as if neutrality doesn't exist.
what reason do you have to go for neutrality in this case where everything is so clear cut?
sometime when the right side of an argument is super obvious, going for "neutrality" is the same as defending the wrong side
 
Oct 25, 2017
610
No, that's not the case at all and they have said they will do cross play but you have people yelling in here about arrogant sony and how sony is doing it all wrong and not allowing crossplay when we have an executive saying something different. So yeah I question both sides of it.
And we have actual devs saying that Sony isn;t playing ball. Therefore, sony is lying. This isn't hard
 
Nov 2, 2017
571
Umm...we all know that their stance is based on a business decision. I'm not sure what makes you think otherwise or that we don't know Sony's position on cross-play?

Is it a good business decision to be anti-consumer and anti-developer though?
As he said in the article. Its not a flick of a switch. There are pros and cons to them as a business entity. What they are doing is testing the waters and opening up by just a little to see the effects. He is saying "fortnite seems to be doing well" which sounds like they are trying to learn and see how this featyre works.

People who quick to say anti consumerism is annoying really. Sony is running a business and they need to see how this, frankly, huge decision will affect them. I know I am not looking at this as a consumer and more into how a business works.

If a factor outside your business plan suddenly takes more attention, you try to test and learn what will happen if you consider it.

A child can stomp their feet and cry out but that does not mean that the parents must give in immediately to the demands of the child. Some things just take time.

The only mistakes they are making from what I see here is their messaging they have and they need to react much faster. I may sound like I am defending sony but I just don't enjoy seeing little kids throwing a tantrum and sounding like a spoiled brat.
 
Oct 25, 2017
610
As he said in the article. Its not a flick of a switch. There are pros and cons to them as a business entity. What they are doing is testing the waters and opening up by just a little to see the effects. He is saying "fortnite seems to be doing well" which sounds like they are trying to learn and see how this featyre works.

People who quick to say anti consumerism is annoying really. Sony is running a business and they need to see how this, frankly, huge decision will affect them. I know I am not looking at this as a consumer and more into how a business works.

If a factor outside your business plan suddenly takes more attention, you try to test and learn what will happen if you consider it.

A child can stomp their feet and cry out but that does not mean that the parents must give in immediately to the demands of the child. Some things just take time.

The only mistakes they are making from what I see here is their messaging they have and they need to react much faster. I may sound like I am defending sony but I just don't enjoy seeing little kids throwing a tantrum and sounding like a spoiled brat.
Fuck off with this shit diminishing the intelligence and capability of devs. They are not children compared to the smart adults of Sony. They're both businesses
 

mazi

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Oct 27, 2017
14,477
lol @ anyone thinking even a single dev will buy that. if you think that, shawn's response was designed specifically for you

“Just asking questions” this time.
just trying to get edumacated on the issue, over a series of multi quote posts trying to tell people how wrong they are
 

steviejd1

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Nov 8, 2017
4,062
As he said in the article. Its not a flick of a switch. There are pros and cons to them as a business entity. What they are doing is testing the waters and opening up by just a little to see the effects. He is saying "fortnite seems to be doing well" which sounds like they are trying to learn and see how this featyre works.

People who quick to say anti consumerism is annoying really. Sony is running a business and they need to see how this, frankly, huge decision will affect them. I know I am not looking at this as a consumer and more into how a business works.

If a factor outside your business plan suddenly takes more attention, you try to test and learn what will happen if you consider it.

A child can stomp their feet and cry out but that does not mean that the parents must give in immediately to the demands of the child. Some things just take time.

The only mistakes they are making from what I see here is their messaging they have and they need to react much faster. I may sound like I am defending sony but I just don't enjoy seeing little kids throwing a tantrum and sounding like a spoiled brat.
Are you really calling developers spoilt children?

And yes it is anti-consumerism and yes you are defending Sony and being a corporate apologist. Sony are making the most revenue and profit they have ever made, perhaps they could adjust their "business plan" a little better and pay some of that forward to the developers that support their platform and the consumers who do likewise.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,105
London
So you are saying that this shouldn't happen, but it did?
Yup, they should enable for all parties involved like how Microsoft and Nintendo are currently doing it.

And when they simply say nothing to the devs one way or another? How many months of nothing from Sony is acceptable to you before we’re allowed to call them out on this? Because your statements indicate that Sony could be silent indefinitely and that would be acceptable, since it’s still “pending” without an explicit denial.
I think 6 months is already a long time, but this doesn't seem like a small issue for Sony. I can't say for certain but hope things change soon.

what reason do you have to go for neutrality in this case where everything is so clear cut?
Because the devs in question have not been outright denied. But I understand that it has been over 6 months of waiting for War Thunder.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,040
Yeah I'm sure the devs are lowering the quality of their own product for absolutely no reason and blaming sony because ???

Occam's razor
I don't think they are lieing either but I don't think we are seeing the full story. Maybe it is sony rejecting the devs but that's not been said either.
 
Nov 2, 2017
571
Fuck off with this shit diminishing the intelligence and capability of devs. They are not children compared to the smart adults of Sony. They're both businesses
I'm more talking about the demanding customers though?

I have a lot of respect for developers. They do need to act professional regarding this. As you say, developers are also a business.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,105
London
Sorry, I had no other reaction to give. Sure they’ll fix it, after enough shit is slung their way for being so pig headed in the first place. There is literally nothing to defend or question here.
Alright, I get that some just like opposing arguments. But the sort of stuff I have to deal with in these type of threads is just wrong.