Shawn Layden blames publishers and developers for lack of PlayStation crossplay (Up: Wargroove dev Chucklefish responds in thread - "We were told no")

Oct 28, 2017
10,269
I'm not suggesting they're purposefully making it slow. Per my last post's suggestions, I'm suggesting their speed of operation here may be bogged down by a brittle legacy codebase, and they're too embarrassed to communicate that to partners. It would not be the first time that happened to a company.

Of course that is ultimately Sony's fault - but I think that's different to saying that they're insincerely and deliberately holding things up.
There is no process to speed up. Crossplay already works in most cases of the devs complaining, all devs need is permission, a simple "yes" and they make it live. There's no need for Sony to build a new division or spend months of R&D just so someone can say it.
 
Oct 27, 2017
690
Hi Rez have full cross play implemented in Paladins and have repeated numerous times that it will be activated on "other platforms" - not Switch, or Xbox, or PC - when "the opportunity arises". Sony aren't giving developers the chance unless their game is so immesurably large that they will take too much heat for not allowing it.

As for this whole laughable excuse about it being a difficult and time consuming process, how is it that Nintendo - a company with the most pathetic online setup of any game console - can allow crossplay at the flick of a switch? How is it that developers have already turned crossplay on PS4 on by accident and had it work exactly as expected? How is it that Sony aren't adding more games to this sham "beta" when they have developers lining out of the door and Fortnite/Rocket League have worked perfectly fine for months?

Because it's all a bullshit excuse from a company with a backwards policy that is scared they'll lose ground to the competitors if they open up. Developers are not conspiring together to make Sony look bad by pretending that they can't activate crossplay, they aren't able to despite having done all the necessary work on their end.
 

JayBee

Banned
Member
Dec 6, 2018
1,332
Hi Rez have full cross play implemented in Paladins and have repeated numerous times that it will be activated on "other platforms" - not Switch, or Xbox, or PC - when "the opportunity arises". Sony aren't giving developers the chance unless their game is so immesurably large that they will take too much heat for not allowing it.
Which is really fucking stupid because smaller games are the ones that would actually benefit the most off of this
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,450
There is no process to speed up. Crossplay already works in most cases of the devs complaining, all devs need is permission, a simple "yes" and they make it live. There's no need for Sony to build a new division or spend months of R&D just so someone can say it.
If Layden is correct, and they're treating the three features as a monolith then that might not be entirely true. Cross play might be a switch on the developer's side, other things might not.

But yeah, for the sake of speed, Sony should consider dealing with them one at a time. But it sounds like at the moment, from their backend's perspective, they're working through them all together. Or they want to get them all sorted before scaling out.

As for this whole laughable excuse about it being a difficult and time consuming process, how is it that Nintendo - a company with the most pathetic online setup of any game console - can allow crossplay at the flick of a switch?
Not having a large legacy codebase operating at a massive scale would in fact be an advantage in terms of agility. I do think, though, that if cross multiplay is purely a gameside concern, Sony should leave that to developers rather than tying it to a larger project involving cross progression and purchases.

Because it's all a bullshit excuse from a company with a backwards policy that is scared they'll lose ground to the competitors if they open up.
As an explanation that doesn't make sense. The 'damage' is done - the leap has been made - if the biggest games have it. They're not gaining anything by withholding it from smaller stuff.
 
Nov 26, 2017
198
For real. What a bunch of bullshit from Layden. Pretty shameful shit.

“Work with your PlayStation manager.”

How about just allow crossplay on your platform, asshole.
wow man, relax. i did not know your life depended on it. maybe when you have the biggest marketshare of any console you would also think twice before opening things up. its called business, learn to deal with it.
 
Oct 27, 2017
690
As an explanation that doesn't make sense. The 'damage' is done - the leap has been made - if the biggest games have it. They're not gaining anything by withholding it from smaller stuff.
They weren't gaining anything by witholding it from any game at any point in time, they only pivoted because they saw the potential to lose customers (and a lot of face) over Fortnite and Rocket League not supporting crossplay and cooked up this "beta" as a quick way to qwell the mounting criticisms. It's pretty clear Sony still have the attitude that crossplay in general is bad for their business and are putting up enough roadblocks to prevent it from happening without being put in the spotlight again - nobody is really going to kick up a fuss over Smite like they would over Fortnite, for example.
 
Am I the only one who thinks both parties might be right here? I don’t think anyone is lying.

From the full quote it sounds like it is an open process, but a somewhat slow one right now, and Sony is trying to address three components at once rather than just crossplay multiplayer.

A dev in a hurry could easily take that a slow process as being fobbed off and cry foul.

Sony should try to speed the process once they have everything nailed down, if it’s not nailed down already. That’s for sure. But I don’t get the impression that anyone’s trying to be deceptive here, I think it’s a mismatch of expectations of how quickly things will move while Sony is still solidifying their process. There’s a lesson there for Sony in fast response, but I don’t think Layden is being insincere.
I agree.

There's no real benefit to Sony announcing a cross-play beta and plans to open a new process for getting cross-approved by developers and then it all be a lie.

Any deception would come to light eventually and would make Sony look even worse than they would if they just stuck to their prior guns of no-crossplay with consoles allowed.

I think people are just letting their gaming industry cynicism run away with them. Certain individuals also love a good controversy and thrive of it.

I honestly think folks just need to be a little more patient on this.
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,450
They weren't gaining anything by witholding it from any game at any point in time
If they were being protectionist about network effects/Metcalfe's Law - which I think they were - then from that perspective they were potentially giving up something by allowing it.

they only pivoted because they saw the potential to lose customers (and a lot of face) over Fortnite and Rocket League not supporting crossplay
Correct.

and cooked up this "beta" as a quick way to qwell the mounting criticisms. It's pretty clear Sony still have the attitude that crossplay in general is bad for their business and are putting up enough roadblocks to prevent it from happening
This is what I don't buy. If it's in the biggest games, the potential 'loss' of allowing it wrt Sony has been booked.
 
Jan 10, 2019
546
Sony needs to jump on the cross play bandwagon like yesterday.

This is Sony we are talking about....

So receipts please.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,219
Except in the paragraphs before it you get the same old deflective crap:

This is why Layden shouldn't do PR.
That's just silly.

It's typical corporate speak. The point of cross platform play is to allow people regardless of platform to play *the same game* together.

If you play a game like Rocket League it doesn't matter what platform you play it on and disallowing full cross play is just spiteful and harms the people who should be most important, which are players. More importantly, cross play works, as evidenced in this example.

We should be bringing down barriers to people playing with each other, not making up excuses as to why they shouldn't be.
 
Oct 25, 2017
10,243
Long Island
Crossplay at this stage in the game only makes sense, it keeps people in your Eco system. They probably don't want to do it because next gen is coming and that will lower the need to own a PlayStation to play with friends on the same console family.
 
Oct 29, 2017
861
He out here acting like this is some rocket science thing that Epic helped them work out, when PS4 has had crossplay between PC with multiple games before that. Don't believe his lies.

Shawn Layden : Stop being low-level plebs and we might approve you like we have for only some of the biggest games out there.

#4thePlayers
 
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Oct 25, 2017
902
All we need now is Sony fighting with devs on twitter

Then the turnaround from the beginning of this gen when they were incredibly beloved by devs will be complete
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,241
Sony 2018 - We are going to communicate better and be more open about what we are doing.

Sony 2019- - We cancelled our E3 presser, oh and fuck you and fuck you also. Also we ain’t telling you nothing
 

CosmicSea

Alt account
Member
Feb 5, 2019
502
Sony 2018 - We are going to communicate better and be more open about what we are doing.

Sony 2019- - We cancelled our E3 presser, oh and fuck you and fuck you also. Also we ain’t telling you nothing
It's February 12th.....Over reactions as usual. They also never said communicate better and be more open, they said "New ways to engage our fans"
 
Oct 28, 2017
555
Oct 25, 2017
902
lets also not forget that minecraft isn't going anywhere AND THERE IS A BIG REASON FOR THIS EVEN THOUGH THE GAME IS SECOND ONLY TO FORNITE

Sony is speaking and arguing in bad faith - they are protecting their lead and business in consoles
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,422
"As ever..."

I mean, even if this is now true, it's definitely not the way it's always been. It's not 'as ever'.
It seems more like a general "As ever" regarding every process that needs to be taken to said PS account manager. Anyway and since that doesn't matter, I still don't feel they're being openly clear about what the hell is going on with cross-play, yeah, approaching them and mentioning it is one thing, but actually giving the Ok to go forward (even though I know he says permission in the interview) just feels like is the actuall wall for devs. I guess we'll see as more devs start going public with their wish to have cross-play.

It's also interesting that Sony are fine and more than able to cross-play with PC, Android and iOS but not their direct competitors.

This has always been a business decision and the only reason Fortnite got cross-play was because the complaints got through to mainstream media and news outlets.
This is how I feel about this topic as well.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,084
Oh I must've missed this thread while I was sleeping what did I mi-

Oh. Oh dear.

And it's not like what this was in response to was completely without basis either.

*Shrugs*
That’s being disingenuous. I didn’t see a problem with the points he made before he worked himself up.
 

CosmicSea

Alt account
Member
Feb 5, 2019
502
Poor Equanity was bullied man lol. I did not agree with what he was saying but he was entitled to his opinion....not sure why people are allowed to be treated like that here.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,966
It really doesn't refute that at all, Sony has literally always been claiming they're open for crossplay discussion for the past three years every time they've been asked... Big difference between being open to hear someone talk and it actually happening.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,232
Crossplay at this stage in the game only makes sense, it keeps people in your Eco system. They probably don't want to do it because next gen is coming and that will lower the need to own a PlayStation to play with friends on the same console family.
Thats incredibly shitty because there's always a new console generation coming and now we're doing mid-gen hardware refreshes too. So the window to do this essentially will never exist.
 
Chucklefish CEO chimes in

Tiy

CEO of Chucklefish
Verified
Feb 12, 2019
4
Hi all,

CEO Of Chucklefish here, we just launched Wargroove with crossplay between PC, Switch and Xbox so I wanted to chime in.

We made many requests for crossplay (both through our account manager and directly with higher ups) all the way up until release month. We were told in no uncertain terms that it was not going to happen.

From our side, we can *literally* toggle a switch and have it working. Of course policy work might be more complicated for Sony.

Just wanted to provide some balance on the issue and say that it certainly isn't a question of developers having not contacted their account managers or having dropped the ball. We were told no.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,084
Hi all,

CEO Of Chucklefish here, we just launched Wargroove with crossplay between PC, Switch and Xbox so I wanted to chime in.

We made many requests for crossplay (both through our account manager and directly with higher ups) all the way up until release month. We were told in no uncertain terms that it was not going to happen.

From our side, we can *literally* toggle a switch and have it working. Of course policy work might be more complicated for Sony.

Just wanted to provide some balance on the issue and say that it certainly isn't a question of developers having not contacted their account managers or having dropped the ball. We were told no.
That’s a shame. Congrats on releasing Wargroove, it’s a great game, and I hope cross play with Sony gets sorted soon.
 
Oct 29, 2017
1,703
Just wanted to provide some balance on the issue and say that it certainly isn't a question of developers having not contacted their account managers or having dropped the ball. We were told no.
Always nice to have confirmation and more info and congrats on the game. It was pretty obvious from how Psyonix talked about bugging Sony constantly until they finally allowed them to flip the switch on Rocket League recently. Whatever the problem is it doesn't look good for them to allow Fortnite this huge feature advantage while dragging their feet with smaller developers trying to compete for players' time and money.
 
Oct 27, 2017
426
Hi all,

CEO Of Chucklefish here, we just launched Wargroove with crossplay between PC, Switch and Xbox so I wanted to chime in.

We made many requests for crossplay (both through our account manager and directly with higher ups) all the way up until release month. We were told in no uncertain terms that it was not going to happen.

From our side, we can *literally* toggle a switch and have it working. Of course policy work might be more complicated for Sony.

Just wanted to provide some balance on the issue and say that it certainly isn't a question of developers having not contacted their account managers or having dropped the ball. We were told no.
First, Wargroove is an excellent game and you deserve all the success.

Second, its nice to know that Sony is spewing BS.
 
Nov 8, 2017
4,286
Hi all,

CEO Of Chucklefish here, we just launched Wargroove with crossplay between PC, Switch and Xbox so I wanted to chime in.

We made many requests for crossplay (both through our account manager and directly with higher ups) all the way up until release month. We were told in no uncertain terms that it was not going to happen.

From our side, we can *literally* toggle a switch and have it working. Of course policy work might be more complicated for Sony.

Just wanted to provide some balance on the issue and say that it certainly isn't a question of developers having not contacted their account managers or having dropped the ball. We were told no.
Thank you for the clarification, great game btw!
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,683
Hi all,

CEO Of Chucklefish here, we just launched Wargroove with crossplay between PC, Switch and Xbox so I wanted to chime in.

We made many requests for crossplay (both through our account manager and directly with higher ups) all the way up until release month. We were told in no uncertain terms that it was not going to happen.

From our side, we can *literally* toggle a switch and have it working. Of course policy work might be more complicated for Sony.

Just wanted to provide some balance on the issue and say that it certainly isn't a question of developers having not contacted their account managers or having dropped the ball. We were told no.
Thanks for the update, also Wargroove is great!
That is egregious cherry-picking on your part. Here are parts of his answer you purposely edited out:

And
Yeah, the context really changes those huh? Your reply to my post makes no sense, never mind this crap "you purposely edited out." My post says right at the top "you get the same old deflective crap", quoting the same old Sony PR lines Shawn threw in. Don't be so quick to blindly protect your favourite CEO who was clearly lying.
 
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Ahri

Lying PR
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
203
Hi all,

CEO Of Chucklefish here, we just launched Wargroove with crossplay between PC, Switch and Xbox so I wanted to chime in.

We made many requests for crossplay (both through our account manager and directly with higher ups) all the way up until release month. We were told in no uncertain terms that it was not going to happen.

From our side, we can *literally* toggle a switch and have it working. Of course policy work might be more complicated for Sony.

Just wanted to provide some balance on the issue and say that it certainly isn't a question of developers having not contacted their account managers or having dropped the ball. We were told no.

Congrats to all of you for Wargroove.

As for Shawn's words... It's a bit unfortunate to see PlayStation keeping this stance. They have been making excuses for months now.
But hey, "For the Players!" I guess.