Shawn Layden blames publishers and developers for lack of PlayStation crossplay (Up: Wargroove dev Chucklefish responds in thread - "We were told no")

[Deleted member 2145]

Hi all,

CEO Of Chucklefish here, we just launched Wargroove with crossplay between PC, Switch and Xbox so I wanted to chime in.

We made many requests for crossplay (both through our account manager and directly with higher ups) all the way up until release month. We were told in no uncertain terms that it was not going to happen.

From our side, we can *literally* toggle a switch and have it working. Of course policy work might be more complicated for Sony.

Just wanted to provide some balance on the issue and say that it certainly isn't a question of developers having not contacted their account managers or having dropped the ball. We were told no.

Click to shrink...

figured as much, the absence of a day and date PS4 version while yall were hard pushing the connectivity and user created content between platforms was a pretty big sign but thank you for the confirmation

makes this interview pretty slimy all things considered. certainly not how I would want higher ups at Sony treating the development community.

also Wargroove is fucking amazing!

 

[Philly Cheesesteak]

Hi all,

CEO Of Chucklefish here, we just launched Wargroove with crossplay between PC, Switch and Xbox so I wanted to chime in.

We made many requests for crossplay (both through our account manager and directly with higher ups) all the way up until release month. We were told in no uncertain terms that it was not going to happen.

From our side, we can *literally* toggle a switch and have it working. Of course policy work might be more complicated for Sony.

Just wanted to provide some balance on the issue and say that it certainly isn't a question of developers having not contacted their account managers or having dropped the ball. We were told no.

Click to shrink...

Well there you have it. Sony is providing crossplay only for games they deem big enough to get people off their back. I'd imagine Kotaku or someone is going to pick this up fairly soon and write about it since we have an actual dev confirmation.

 

[Bunkles]

Why don't they just take the L on this one? I'm not sure what Sony has to gain from lying like this.

 

[ChaosZeroX]

Hi all,

CEO Of Chucklefish here, we just launched Wargroove with crossplay between PC, Switch and Xbox so I wanted to chime in.

We made many requests for crossplay (both through our account manager and directly with higher ups) all the way up until release month. We were told in no uncertain terms that it was not going to happen.

From our side, we can *literally* toggle a switch and have it working. Of course policy work might be more complicated for Sony.

Just wanted to provide some balance on the issue and say that it certainly isn't a question of developers having not contacted their account managers or having dropped the ball. We were told no.

Click to shrink...

Jeez. Sony needs to get their head out of their ass.

 

[TheGhost]

Thats incredibly shitty because there's always a new console generation coming and now we're doing mid-gen hardware refreshes too. So the window to do this essentially will never exist.

Click to shrink...

Of course it's shitty but that's what business people do

 

[Deleted member 2145]

Why don't they just take the L on this one? I'm not sure what Sony has to gain from lying like this.

Click to shrink...

their gain is that not only do they not give a fuck about crossplay they are actively against it. they're giving themselves some PR leeway while not actually changing anything behind the scenes and because they flipped for Fortnite it's probably enough for now. as unfortunate as it is them blocking smaller indie titles isn't going to get them on the news or have actual effects on their stock price like the Fortnite fiasco did. scummy shit, basically.

 

[gofreak]

Hi all,

CEO Of Chucklefish here, we just launched Wargroove with crossplay between PC, Switch and Xbox so I wanted to chime in.

We made many requests for crossplay (both through our account manager and directly with higher ups) all the way up until release month. We were told in no uncertain terms that it was not going to happen.

From our side, we can *literally* toggle a switch and have it working. Of course policy work might be more complicated for Sony.

Just wanted to provide some balance on the issue and say that it certainly isn't a question of developers having not contacted their account managers or having dropped the ball. We were told no.

Click to shrink...

Well that's very poor - if you were simply told no, then there's no question about a 'slow process' or whatever.

Either Layden is unaware of what's going on, or people in dev relations are. Either way they need to sort this out ASAP.

 

[I KILL PXLS]

Hi all,

CEO Of Chucklefish here, we just launched Wargroove with crossplay between PC, Switch and Xbox so I wanted to chime in.

We made many requests for crossplay (both through our account manager and directly with higher ups) all the way up until release month. We were told in no uncertain terms that it was not going to happen.

From our side, we can *literally* toggle a switch and have it working. Of course policy work might be more complicated for Sony.

Just wanted to provide some balance on the issue and say that it certainly isn't a question of developers having not contacted their account managers or having dropped the ball. We were told no.

Click to shrink...

Can we stop with the "They're not being turned down, they're just in the queue and the queue takes time" bs now?

Congrats on the game release btw.

 

[TheGhost]

Hi all,

CEO Of Chucklefish here, we just launched Wargroove with crossplay between PC, Switch and Xbox so I wanted to chime in.

We made many requests for crossplay (both through our account manager and directly with higher ups) all the way up until release month. We were told in no uncertain terms that it was not going to happen.

From our side, we can *literally* toggle a switch and have it working. Of course policy work might be more complicated for Sony.

Just wanted to provide some balance on the issue and say that it certainly isn't a question of developers having not contacted their account managers or having dropped the ball. We were told no.

Click to shrink...

Well that sucks but thank you for a wonderful game I got to enjoy while recovering from surgery.

 

[Deleted member 2145]

Well that's very poor - if you were simply told no, then there's no question about a 'slow process' or whatever.

Either Layden is unaware of what's going on, or people in dev relations are. Either way they need to sort this out ASAP.

Click to shrink...

the thing to note here is that for Sony they did sort it out. this is what sorting it out is for them, using their beta program and the fact that they flipped on Fortnite as a shield to any crossplay criticism while actively blocking everything else. they never intended to actually support crossplay or else they would have just actually supported crossplay.

 

[Bunkles]

their gain is that not only do they not give a fuck about crossplay they are actively against it. they're giving themselves some PR leeway while not actually changing anything behind the scenes and because they flipped for Fortnite it's probably enough for now. as unfortunate as it is them blocking smaller indie titles isn't going to get them on the news or have actual effects on their stock price like the Fortnite fiasco did. scummy shit, basically.

Click to shrink...

They are losing the PR game though. By lying and holding back on this they are making a mountain out of a molehill. They literally lose nothing by letting games like, say Wargroove, on crossplay. They've lost this battle and just need to move forward.

 

[RoninChaos]

Shawn is fucking lying. Nothing more to it.

 

[Deleted member 2145]

They are losing the PR game though. By lying and holding back on this they are making a mountain out of a molehill. They literally lose nothing by letting games like, say Wargroove, on crossplay. They've lost this battle and just need to move forward.

Click to shrink...

they would actually gain by allowing games like Wargroove to have crossplay because despite having an install base advantage over their competition a game like Wargroove would no doubt sell better on other platforms so it'd actually let PS4 owners have access to a larger player pool

it's mind boggling how they're treating this issue

 

[Azerth]

cant wait for the ps5 reveal where they announce that there will be no barrier for devs wanting to have cross-play #fortheplayers /s

just let the devs flip the switch already.

 

[kiguel182]

Hi all,

CEO Of Chucklefish here, we just launched Wargroove with crossplay between PC, Switch and Xbox so I wanted to chime in.

We made many requests for crossplay (both through our account manager and directly with higher ups) all the way up until release month. We were told in no uncertain terms that it was not going to happen.

From our side, we can *literally* toggle a switch and have it working. Of course policy work might be more complicated for Sony.

Just wanted to provide some balance on the issue and say that it certainly isn't a question of developers having not contacted their account managers or having dropped the ball. We were told no.

Click to shrink...

Not sure if it's confidential (or if you can share) but how does that crossplay "switch" work? Does the game use third party multiplayer stuff that handles that or are the PSN/XBOX/SWITCH online APIs already easy so integrate with each other?

I'm always curious when people toggle cross-play and how that process works in the back end.

 

[Deleted member 2840]

He's saying if anyone wants to have cross-play they need to get in touch with the PlayStation account managers. So hmm. We'll see what the devs say in response to this lol.

Click to shrink...

So hm... What now?!?!?! Are you gonna say those Devs are lying now?

 

[Ryan_MSF]

I look forward to the "who cares about crossplay" discourse that's about to ensue

 

[gofreak]

the thing to note here is that for Sony they did sort it out. this is what sorting it out is for them, using their beta program and the fact that they flipped on Fortnite as a shield to any crossplay criticism while actively blocking everything else. they never intended to actually support crossplay or else they would have just actually supported crossplay.

Click to shrink...

Well obviously it's very publicly not sorted out now, is it?

For the moment I'm still in the '"don't ascribe to malice that which can be stupidity" camp - that is, I'm more inclined to think there's some big miscommunication going on either between Layden and what's happening on the ground, or within dev relations about what policy is, rather than there being some big conspiracy to deliberately say different things to different parties as if they can somehow keep it a secret from each. To the extent that crossplay could be damaging to Sony, the damage is already done in its presence in the large games... it makes little sense to allow it there, let that damage be done, and then trifle over the smaller stuff. If that conspiracy was true about 'not really supporting it', they're doing a bad job by allowing it in the biggest games where it could have the most impact on exclusive network effects...

 

[zedox]

Wow. SMH Sony.

 

[Jaded Alyx]

The response from the Wargroove dev is extremely similar to the experience of the Rocket League devs, right down to it being as easy as flipping a switch to enable it.

There's no need to lie about this, Sony. Time for that has long gone.

 

[LordBaztion]

Hi all,

CEO Of Chucklefish here, we just launched Wargroove with crossplay between PC, Switch and Xbox so I wanted to chime in.

We made many requests for crossplay (both through our account manager and directly with higher ups) all the way up until release month. We were told in no uncertain terms that it was not going to happen.

From our side, we can *literally* toggle a switch and have it working. Of course policy work might be more complicated for Sony.

Just wanted to provide some balance on the issue and say that it certainly isn't a question of developers having not contacted their account managers or having dropped the ball. We were told no.

Click to shrink...

That's a shame, hope Sony makes up its mind.
btw, I just wanted to thank you for making your game play anywhere.

 

[Deleted member 2145]

Well obviously it's very publicly not sorted out now, is it?

For the moment I'm still in the '"don't ascribe to malice that which can be stupidity" camp - that is, I'm more inclined to think there's some big miscommunication going on either between Layden and what's happening on the ground, or within dev relations about what policy is, rather than there being some big conspiracy to deliberately say different things to different parties as if they can somehow keep it a secret from each. To the extent that crossplay could be damaging to Sony, the damage is already done in its presence in the large games... it makes little sense to allow it there, let that damage be done, and then trifle over the smaller stuff.

Click to shrink...

every single move Sony has made in regards to crossplay has been a move of a company that does not want to fully support crossplay. I'm viewing this situation through that lens. makes much more sense than a giant corporation and their higher ups being incompetent.

 

[Deleted member 5596]

Hi all,

CEO Of Chucklefish here, we just launched Wargroove with crossplay between PC, Switch and Xbox so I wanted to chime in.

We made many requests for crossplay (both through our account manager and directly with higher ups) all the way up until release month. We were told in no uncertain terms that it was not going to happen.

From our side, we can *literally* toggle a switch and have it working. Of course policy work might be more complicated for Sony.

Just wanted to provide some balance on the issue and say that it certainly isn't a question of developers having not contacted their account managers or having dropped the ball. We were told no.

Click to shrink...

So Sony is lying

pretendstobeshocked.gif

 

[SnatcherHunter]

Hi all,

CEO Of Chucklefish here, we just launched Wargroove with crossplay between PC, Switch and Xbox so I wanted to chime in.

We made many requests for crossplay (both through our account manager and directly with higher ups) all the way up until release month. We were told in no uncertain terms that it was not going to happen.

From our side, we can *literally* toggle a switch and have it working. Of course policy work might be more complicated for Sony.

Just wanted to provide some balance on the issue and say that it certainly isn't a question of developers having not contacted their account managers or having dropped the ball. We were told no.

Click to shrink...

This is why I love this place.

 

[Deleted member 16876]

Man why can't they just be honest about this? At the very least find some better excuse.

It is about time they overturned their policy because this is getting silly now.

 

[GhostTrick]

I think the right way to handle this for developers is to just treat the PlayStation platform as a 2nd class customer.

Either ignore the platform altogether or just serve it last and worse.

 

[Deleted member 873]

sony lying and putting the blame for their shitty policies on indie devs?

 

[Deleted member 45414]

Hi all,

CEO Of Chucklefish here, we just launched Wargroove with crossplay between PC, Switch and Xbox so I wanted to chime in.

We made many requests for crossplay (both through our account manager and directly with higher ups) all the way up until release month. We were told in no uncertain terms that it was not going to happen.

From our side, we can *literally* toggle a switch and have it working. Of course policy work might be more complicated for Sony.

Just wanted to provide some balance on the issue and say that it certainly isn't a question of developers having not contacted their account managers or having dropped the ball. We were told no.

Click to shrink...

Thank you for posting this, recently bought WarGroove on switch and I'm looking forward to playing it :)

 

[Deleted member 249]

Hi all,

CEO Of Chucklefish here, we just launched Wargroove with crossplay between PC, Switch and Xbox so I wanted to chime in.

We made many requests for crossplay (both through our account manager and directly with higher ups) all the way up until release month. We were told in no uncertain terms that it was not going to happen.

From our side, we can *literally* toggle a switch and have it working. Of course policy work might be more complicated for Sony.

Just wanted to provide some balance on the issue and say that it certainly isn't a question of developers having not contacted their account managers or having dropped the ball. We were told no.

Click to shrink...

Wargroove is fantastic, congratulations on the successful launch!
And thank you for the update!

 

[kiguel182]

Sony is really messing this. From the refuse to implement, then implementing but just for Epic and now with this "we are open, they are the ones not asking".

I get they have their marketshare and all of this but cross-play and cross-progress benefits every user. They are hindering their users.

A world where you can move platforms freely and play with whoever you want is what I want for this industry. They can compete on other stuff but this should be figured out.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

They could've just said "we're exploring this on a title by title basis to maintain the best experience for PS users" and it would be technically true, instead of just flat out lying about it.

 

[Altair]

Sony continues to dig its own grave. What do you have to gain from flat out lying and blaming the devs for this shit?

 

[Noodle]

So he lied.

Will Gameinformer follow him up on this or just let it slide?

 

[gofreak]

every single move Sony has made in regards to crossplay has been a move of a company that does not want to fully support crossplay. I'm viewing this situation through that lens. makes much more sense than a giant corporation and their higher ups being incompetent.

Click to shrink...

You may be right, but in either case, it's not sustainable to keep two different messages going at the same time. That miscommunication needs to be sorted out, it looks ridiculous otherwise. If, for some reason, Sony is OK with crossplay in the huge games' communities, but not in the tiny communities - again I don't grok why that would make sense, but let's say that is the case - Sony will have to align their message so that execs aren't walking into a booby trap in interviews. Otherwise they do just look either shady or incompetent, and whatever about the reality of the policy, I don't think Sony would be happy about that look from a PR perspective. So there is definitely 'something' to sort out here still, whether that involves just messaging or both action and messaging.

 

[Klobrille]

 

[Camonna Tong]

It's funny calling something a "beta" when there was already crossplay with PC. Let's get real, it's called a "beta" because Sony is purposely selective in what gets through and doesn't just for the sake of "Oh, we listened". Their policy is still nearly the same except the ones they let through they only do because of PR. There doesn't need to be a beta. It's as simple as Sony holding out until the PS5 so they can sell more PS4s.

 

[Umbrella Carp]

Hi all,

CEO Of Chucklefish here, we just launched Wargroove with crossplay between PC, Switch and Xbox so I wanted to chime in.

We made many requests for crossplay (both through our account manager and directly with higher ups) all the way up until release month. We were told in no uncertain terms that it was not going to happen.

From our side, we can *literally* toggle a switch and have it working. Of course policy work might be more complicated for Sony.

Just wanted to provide some balance on the issue and say that it certainly isn't a question of developers having not contacted their account managers or having dropped the ball. We were told no.

Click to shrink...

Cheers for the full disclosure. Arrogant Sony is alive and well.

 

[Splader]

Yeah, I had my doubts when I read the OP. Didn't really make much sense considering the number of devs that have spoken out about it.

Not sure what Layden was thinking here.

 

[Deleted member 4976]

Caught straight lying lmao

 

[Gunny T Highway]

Hi all,

CEO Of Chucklefish here, we just launched Wargroove with crossplay between PC, Switch and Xbox so I wanted to chime in.

We made many requests for crossplay (both through our account manager and directly with higher ups) all the way up until release month. We were told in no uncertain terms that it was not going to happen.

From our side, we can *literally* toggle a switch and have it working. Of course policy work might be more complicated for Sony.

Just wanted to provide some balance on the issue and say that it certainly isn't a question of developers having not contacted their account managers or having dropped the ball. We were told no.

Click to shrink...

Well there it is.gif

Congrats on the wonderful game that is Wargroove. Sony is just not willing to play ball.

 

[Carolina Reaper]

Bad guy Sony. They can fuck off.

 

[TheGhost]

I think all that will come from this is chuckle fish getting crossplay for their game. Which will be awesome but won't address the real issue. That he is lying or is not fully aware of what is really going on behind the scenes.

 

[Zappy]

So he lied.

Will Gameinformer follow him up on this or just let it slide?

Click to shrink...

It seems like a straight up lie. As others have said the sort of nonsense MS came up with in 2012/13......

 

[Deleted member 51266]

PlayStation community is so large it's not like you couldn't fill up a lobby if you wanted to fire up a game.

Click to shrink...

This guy is apparently the CEO and he's a huge fucking idiot. Does he legitimately believe that all PS4 games don't suffer from low playercount and it's just an Xbox/PC Switch issue?


Amazing, bodes well for the PS5.

 

[Weebos]

Hi all,

CEO Of Chucklefish here, we just launched Wargroove with crossplay between PC, Switch and Xbox so I wanted to chime in.

We made many requests for crossplay (both through our account manager and directly with higher ups) all the way up until release month. We were told in no uncertain terms that it was not going to happen.

From our side, we can *literally* toggle a switch and have it working. Of course policy work might be more complicated for Sony.

Just wanted to provide some balance on the issue and say that it certainly isn't a question of developers having not contacted their account managers or having dropped the ball. We were told no.

Click to shrink...

Thanks for weighing in.
Also, Wargroove is excellent.

 

[Oregano]

Even before the crossplay Beta Sony never came out and said they didn't support it, in fact they repeatedly talked about how they were the pioneers with crossplay.

The reason they continue to do so is evident in this thread; fanboys lap it up.

 

[Soprano]

You may be right, but in either case, it's not sustainable to keep two different messages going at the same time. That miscommunication needs to be sorted out, it looks ridiculous otherwise. If, for some reason, Sony is OK with crossplay in the huge games' communities, but not in the tiny communities - again I don't grok why that would make sense, but let's say that is the case - Sony will have to align their message so that execs aren't walking into a booby trap in interviews. Otherwise they do just look either shady or incompetent, and whatever about the reality of the policy, I don't think Sony would be happy about that look from a PR perspective.

Click to shrink...

Don't listen to those people. They think they're on some james bond shit and have all Sonys evil tactics figured out. There's an obvious miscommunication somewhere.

 

[Dabanton]

As I said in another thread if MS and fricken Nintendo can get it done there is no reason other than not wanting to that Sony is holding out.

Whether they like it or not the walls are falling down on this issue.

How many devs now have said its easy peasy to get this done they just need the go ahead.

 

[Armaros]

Even before the crossplay Beta Sony never came out and said they didn't support it, in fact they repeatedly talked about how they were the pioneers with crossplay.

The reason they continue to do so is evident in this thread; fanboys lap it up.

Click to shrink...

They were the pioneers of talking about crossplay when Microsoft also did not wanting crossplay. Now that everyone is up for it besides them, they show their true colors.

 

[Deleted member 2145]

You may be right, but in either case, it's not sustainable to keep two different messages going at the same time. That miscommunication needs to be sorted out, it looks ridiculous otherwise. If, for some reason, Sony is OK with crossplay in the huge games' communities, but not in the tiny communities - again I don't grok why that would make sense, but let's say that is the case - Sony will have to align their message so that execs aren't walking into a booby trap in interviews.

Click to shrink...

the Fortnite fiasco actually affected their business. it made mainstream news, execs from their competition were giving interviews on cable news networks, their stock dipped, etc. as Layden made clear it was not a vocal minority online, it was making the rounds. that's why they flipped on that. I'm assuming Rocket League was a similar decision where it would have been an awful look not to let possibly the biggest and most successful PS+ collaboration have crossplay. even then those devs had to work to get it added, I remember them also going to twitter to pressure Sony to let them into the beta program. and that's it, those are the games that Sony allowed to have crossplay. all two of them. basically if blocking a game is going to negatively affect Sony's PlayStation business they'll add it to their beta program. that's why they have a beta program instead of actually supporting crossplay with no asterisk.

this whole situation is actually really easy to decipher if you infer from the actions that are being made by Sony