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Loudninja

Member
Oct 27, 2017
42,207
The importance of deadlines
Smith: I want to talk about management style for a bit. Do you feel like your approach with the studios is more hands on or hands off? How important are deadlines to you?

Layden: You know, we've been at this for over 25 years now. And I think we are understanding better the power of unleashing the creative — and really being able to speak with individuals, or with teams, that have a vision for a game they wanna bring forward.

Having done it so often over so many years, I think we're just getting better at it. We're more experienced at it. We understand what the real cost, time and money, for a great scope is, and prepare ourselves to deliver that.

Deadlines are important, but they're not an end unto themselves. Deadlines, or milestones, are ways that you measure your progress across a trajectory. They're check-in points. Are we achieving this level of artistic quality? If the story works, what are the beats? Are the animations executed? And more often than not, if we feel that we need to spend a little more time in any one of those categories, we've made provisions, and we're prepared to move a date if it's in service of achieving a greater result.

And I know in the game community, people are disappointed to find out that, "Hey! What do you mean you're moving it up 30 days, or 60 days, or 90 days?" But once we've come to market, everyone says, "Oh my God, I'm so glad you did." (laughs) Because we can only answer that disappointment by delivering an awesome result.
https://www.businessinsider.com/shawn-layden-interview-sony-playstation-4-success-2019-2

Felt this was important to highlight
Smith: The PlayStation 4 has been a huge success, but do you find there's anything over this past cycle that you think PlayStation whiffed on? Was there anything you thought you guys could have done better, or just didn't do it at all — and want to do better on the next cycle?

Layden: For all of the advances we've made, and the high bar we've focused on in storytelling. I mean, I dare anybody to experience something like "The Last of Us" and not feel emotional about it; and with "God of War," that story of a father and son; and "Horizon [Zero Dawn]," and the power of Aloy, the protagonist.

All of these things, I believe we've done quite well. I'm very happy with the "Spider-Man" game that went out last year. And looking forward, "Days Gone" is coming in a couple months. That's not only compelling and gripping, but it will emotionally try you very hard. I think all those things we do really well.

What we don't do so much in is multiplayer.


Smith: Do you mean local multiplayer, where two people can play in the same room next to each other, or online multiplayer games?

Layden: Couch co-op — I mean that's a whole category I think the industry needs to look back at. We have that with sports titles, and some racing titles, but not with much else. And I think that speaks to the power of the internet on the one hand, but otherwise we might wanna revisit that to get more family engagement in the gaming experience.

But, no, I was referencing more with the things like "GTA 5 Online," or you look at "Call of Duty," or "Fortnite," or any of those experiences. Worldwide Studios, like I say, we've been going really heavy into story-driven gaming. The power of the narrative. Big, spectacular experiences. But not a whole lot in the multiplayer side of things, I think. That's an area where you will likely see us start to make more noise in the new term.
https://www.businessinsider.com/shawn-layden-interview-sony-playstation-4-success-2019-2
 

i-hate-u

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,374
TL;DR:
hjdxD7q.jpg
 

MrCarter

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,509
Nice. That's, again, a good interview and Shawn seems to really know his stuff. Very articulate too.
 

i-hate-u

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,374
Square Enix has spent this generation assuring us that this quote is not always true.

In all seriousness you are right, but Square spent so much to salvage FF14, and success stories of those aren't the majority. And I would say that patches won't salvage story-focused games like they would with online based ones.

Making a good first impression is important
 

Mesoian

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
26,503
None of those were BAD games.

They had major issues, but their foundations were solid.

I think the bigger thing here is, if all of those games had been delayed a year, they likely wouldn't have had the year one fallout they did and wouldn't have had to rebuild clout in the first place. Same with Street Fighter 5. Same with Final Fantasy 14 (and 15 in a different way).

If you're going to be slavish to a hard deadline, you better hope you have the ability and budget to fix the game on the back end, or else you're still screwed. Not everyone is going to be able to do what Siege or NMS or SF5 or FF14 did, which is essentially releasing that game twice and hoping people would come back for the apology tour.
 

TheZodiacAge

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
1,068
Warfarme, Siege, NMS and Sea of Thieves are disagreeing with you.

Game as a Service Titles designed to get worked on for years after Release - Most people especially today accept that by now.
Mostly Multiplayer focused too and cheaper than the typical full price title.


Nintendo and Sony mostly do Single Player Games inhouse where there is mostly no second chance if they release a broken game with low quality because the first appearance counts here far more.

GaaS Titles have the advantage that you can get customers back with added content and a complete overhaul like SquareEnix did with FF14.
Can't change The Last of Us 2 that much if it gets released in a bad state especially not if the Story is spoilered everywhere by the time they fix it.
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,687
They had major issues, but their foundations were solid.

I think the bigger thing here is, if all of those games had been delayed a year, they likely wouldn't have had the year one fallout they did and wouldn't have had to rebuild clout in the first place. Same with Street Fighter 5. Same with Final Fantasy 14.

If you're going to be slavish to a hard deadline, you better hope you have the abliity and budget to fix the game on the back end, or else you're still screwed. Not everyone is going to be able to do what Siege or NMS or SF5 or FF14 did, which is essentially releasing that game twice and hoping people would come back for the apology tour.
Even then, those are all games that can be salvaged by patches. A game like Metroid prime 4 or even FF7R can't be. If capcom fucked up RE2, could they have just patched it up to fix it? As in like they made bad level design, story, etc.
 

Deleted member 23046

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
6,876
I bought both Siege and NMS, and at launch they were bad, Siege was unplayable.
Yup but it's interesting that three years later Ubisoft placed Siege it in the top 5 of the most played game on Steam.

Ubisoft having a (paid) tactical fps between CSGO, DOTA and LOL, I am not sure we would had believed it in 2015.
 

Mesoian

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
26,503
Even then, those are all games that can be salvaged by patches. A game like Metroid prime 4 or even FF7R can't be. If capcom fucked up RE2, could they have just patched it up to fix it? As in like they made bad level design, story, etc.

I'd argue the case of DmC, which is a narrative game that actually was fixed posthumously. Sales can be the decider on whether or not it was worth it.

And FF15 was patched to be better, in that all of the patches that came out didn't make the game worse, and added more things...which arguably made the experience better...while not actually tackling the real problems of the game. But it did expound upon the things that made FF15 fun...so...you can fix single player modes, it's just a different process.

Ubisoft having a (paid) tactical fps between CSGO, DOTA and LOL, I am not sure we would had believed it in 2015.
Siege and For Honor doing as well as they have is amazing to me. I'm not interested in Siege, but I remember season 1 of For honor and it was brutally terrible. They turned it around completely and are doing a great job in keeping that thing alive and healthy.
 

JayBee

Alt-account
Banned
Dec 6, 2018
1,332
Not a fan of this deadline talk. Target seems like the better word. No company wants their devs to work on something forever like what's happened with Dreams I understand that but what if they don't get the opportunity at all?
 

Mesoian

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
26,503
Not a fan of this deadline talk. Target seems like the better word. No company wants their devs to work on something forever like what's happened with Dreams I understand that but what if they don't get the opportunity at all?

Then presumably...you get the issue with the EA star wars games.
 

Deleted member 40133

User requested account closure
Banned
Feb 19, 2018
6,095
You can't patch a game to become good?



Of course you can. Look at No Man's Sky, Warframe, Sea of Thieves etc.

Bad game is not the same as a barebones or even underdeveloped. No man's Sky, Warframe, Sea of thieves all had the core (potential?) Of a good game. Nothing in those games were fundamentally broken.
They just needed more time to be improved. Which could be argued, if they had waited longer to release the game it would have released in the "it's good!" State
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,687
I'd argue the case of DmC, which is a narrative game that actually was fixed posthumously. Sales can be the decider on whether or not it was worth it.

And FF15 was patched to be better, in that all of the patches that came out didn't make the game worse, and added more things...which arguably made the experience better...while not actually tackling the real problems of the game. But it did expound upon the things that made FF15 fun...so...you can fix single player modes, it's just a different process.


Siege and For Honor doing as well as they have is amazing to me. I'm not interested in Siege, but I remember season 1 of For honor and it was brutally terrible. They turned it around completely and are doing a great job in keeping that thing alive and healthy.
Okay, even then. I bring up the prime 4 example because that's clearly a case where just patching stuff up as dlc after the game is out wouldn't fix the game being fundamentally bad. Other m had a few game breaking things, but the game was also just fundamentally bad.
 

Deleted member 268

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,611
Let developers take all the time they need within reason, but please quit announcing games too early. Sony doing it all gen and still have 3 big ones coming for years now.
  • Death Stranding officially announced at E3 2016.
  • The Last of Us Part II officially announced with trailer December, 2016.
  • Ghost of Tsushima officially announced October, 2017.
How much longer are we going to have to wait for just one of these games? Launching 12-18 months from announcement/reveal should be the standard.
 

Much

The Gif That Keeps on Giffing
Member
Feb 24, 2018
6,067
"Layden: Couch co-op — I mean that's a whole category I think the industry needs to look back at. We have that with sports titles, and some racing titles, but not with much else. And I think that speaks to the power of the internet on the one hand, but otherwise we might wanna revisit that to get more family engagement in the gaming experience"

This is interesting in particular to me. It had sort of died off, but it could make a return?
 

Falconbox

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,600
Buffalo, NY
Give me an awesome TLOU2 online experience.

(Semi-related, but I swear to God a year or two ago a Naughty Dog employee asked on /r/PS4 if anyone would be interested in TLOU battle royale. Nobody noticed or knew at the time it was a ND employee until the user did an AMA a while later on /r/IAMA.

I can't remember who it was, and I cant find the thread anymore despite searching extensively for it. Probably deleted, but even that doesn't totally prevent the ability to find old threads on Reddit )
 

funky

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,527
Guerrilla Games had a entire MP team I have to assume didnt get wiped off the face of the earth during Horizon Development.


I can totally see them releasing a F2P GAAS game.
 
OP
OP
Loudninja

Loudninja

Member
Oct 27, 2017
42,207
Let developers take all the time they need within reason, but please quit announcing games too early. Sony doing it all gen and still have 3 big ones coming for years now.
  • Death Stranding officially announced at E3 2016.
  • The Last of Us Part II officially announced with trailer December, 2016.
  • Ghost of Tsushima officially announced October, 2017.
How much longer are we going to have to wait for just one of these games? Launching 12-18 months from announcement/reveal should be the standard.
Then what do you want them to do cancelled the game shove out of the door?

You cannot say something like this needs to be standard when there million of variables.