Shenmue 3 Kickstarter Backers will not receive preorder/Deluxe Edition bonuses

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,544
mate, you did not even answer my question.
can you try again?

you're saying I haven't understood anything you've said, so when I ask you to clarify...you answer with something I already know.
Kinda feels like you don't want to understand anything unless I just say "Ys Net are infallible and should never ever be criticised".

you think it's fair that even if you backed PS4 and you are entirely unaffected by the transition from Steam to EGS, that you should still be entitled to a refund, even though you are going to get what you backed?
I think if Ys Net want to put out the PR fire that they created, they should attach as few strings as possible to refunds.

It makes no sense to restrict refunds to a given platform when platforms have not been locked it.

They don't have to offer anyone refunds, but they've made the correct decision that to best salvage what is left of their reputation they should offer them.
 

Lain

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,041
I can't wait to get my money back. Backing this game was a mistake.

At 69 crowdfunded projects, I finally feel like stopping lending money.
Unless it is for a porn/lewd game. Seems like those are the ones that keep delivering, so I might keep funding the Subverse of the world. And devs like Larian who showed constant respect for their backers.
 

Resilient

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,149
Kinda feels like you don't want to understand anything unless I just say "Ys Net are infallible and should never ever be criticised".



I think if Ys Net want to put out the PR fire that they created, they should attach as few strings as possible to refunds.

It makes no sense to restrict refunds to a given platform when platforms have not been locked it.

They don't have to offer anyone refunds, but they've made the correct decision that to best salvage what is left of their reputation they should offer them.
You need to re-evaluate your understanding of Kickstarter.

They promised a Steam key, and aren't delivering on it. They don't owe a refund globally (based on the way Kickstarter works) but they really, really should (I've not once suggested otherwise). In the end, they've offered it to those impacted i.e. those who backed for a Steam key and now aren't getting it. Pretty open and shut. Done.

If you backed a PS4 copy, you're still getting a PS4 copy. So if you changed your mind, don't own a PS4 anymore, or don't agree with some of their practices...that is stiff, you need to deal with it. Because that's how Kickstarter works. Is it right? Fair? Unfair? Not really up for discussion. Those are the terms and when you back something on KS you agree with it. It's ludicrous to then suggest 3-4 years down the track when the project is still on track to deliver what you backed, that you can suggest refunds should be available to ALL backers, no questions asked. That = financial loss for the project creator. What happens if everyone asks for a refund then? All 7mil? Because you changed your mind and they'll be right coz EGS and Deep Silver are there! Uh...come on man. That is nuts.

Seems like you'd want a refund so you can pre-order the game and get all of the content.
On what grounds considering those additional pre-order items were never included as part of any KS backer package? Because "you want the pre-order stuff" ?

What happens if everybody asks for a refund and then just buys it from a different store?
 

ParsnipForest

Member
Oct 27, 2017
314
Australia
Ys Net signed the contracts seemingly ceding complete control of their own game to Deep Silver, did this after the funding campaign, and either didn't consider how this might affect backers or didn't care. That's the most generous case for them too; we really have no idea whether Deep Silver have complete control.
I think they very much cared about the backers, but their focus first and foremost was delivering the type of game those backers expect and deserve. Without Deep Silver, Shenmue III would've probably came out years ago as an unfinished/barebones mess. It's not as if YS Net had the luxury of being picky -- it's a game not even the IP holder wanted to take the risk on. For over a decade no one wanted to make Shenmue III. It had to be Kickstarted, and it was always going to need more than $5M (the usable % of the crowd-funding) to be what the fans want and deserve.

It sucks Deep Silver do not take backers into account when making their Shenmue III plans, but I would still take the Shenmue III we're getting today over the Shenmue III we would've got without them. It's not even a contest, because the game is most important to me, not the money I put down.

And we do have an idea about whether YS Net have a say in these decisions, because Adam Koralik, prominent SEGA-related YouTuber and all-round nice guy, went to E3 and spoke to people very close to the project, including Yu Suzuki's daughter, and someone revealed that Yu Suzuki had nothing to do with the Epic decision. So if he has no say in what storefront the game appears on, why would he have a say in preorder bonuses? This is how developer/publisher relationships work: they provide millions in funding, they make the decisions about publishing. To Deep Silver, the Kickstarter is an afterthought -- a side case they didn't want to get involved in -- that's what is causing these issues.
 

Lindsay

Member
Nov 4, 2017
1,477
Wait theres preorder bonuses now? Geez! Shenmue is no longer Shenmue. It is become generic modern videogame. Seems like every other week some garbage news about this game comes out.
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,544
I think they very much cared about the backers, but their focus first and foremost was delivering the type of game those backers expect and deserve. Without Deep Silver, Shenmue III would've probably came out years ago as an unfinished/barebones mess. It's not as if YS Net had the luxury of being picky -- it's a game not even the IP holder wanted to take the risk on. For over a decade no one wanted to make Shenmue III. It had to be Kickstarted, and it was always going to need more than $5M (the usable % of the crowd-funding) to be what the fans want and deserve.

It sucks Deep Silver do not take backers into account when making their Shenmue III plans, but I would still take the Shenmue III we're getting today over the Shenmue III we would've got without them. It's not even a contest, because the game is most important to me, not the money I put down.

And we do have an idea about whether YS Net have a say in these decisions, because Adam Koralik, prominent SEGA-related YouTuber and all-round nice guy, went to E3 and spoke to people very close to the project, including Yu Suzuki's daughter, and someone revealed that Yu Suzuki had nothing to do with the Epic decision. So if he has no say in what storefront the game appears on, why would he have a say in preorder bonuses? This is how developer/publisher relationships work: they provide millions in funding, they make the decisions about publishing. To Deep Silver, the Kickstarter is an afterthought -- a side case they didn't want to get involved in -- that's what is causing these issues.
And where exactly would it be without backers?
 

chumshot

Member
Jun 15, 2019
7
You need to stop assuming people don't know how kickstarter works.
Based on the responses I've seen here, it's not an assumption that people don't know how kickstarter works. A lot of people here don't know how kickstarter works. It's not preordering anything. You're not buying anything. You're giving money to someone to work on a project. As an incentive to donate to the project, they give you rewards based on how much you give them.
If you donated $30, you got access to the game; if you donated $160, then they give you digital items when the project is completed. Not a single one of those tiers mention a season pass. That content is considered outside of what was promised to you as a result of donating to the project. You will not be getting the retail version of the game. You will be getting a physical copy that is exclusive to certain backers.

Backers will be getting their own bonuses similar to the retail version of the pre-order bonuses. Backers will be receiving both Steam copies and EGS copies of the game.

The only thing that people could argue is that a disc with the EGS launcher is not a copy of the game, but people are largely complaining about things that they were not promised when they gave money to fund the project.
 

SteveWinwood

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,006
USA USA USA
it's amazing how so many people can pass the buck

it's not their fault! it's these other people's fault! yeah the first people hired them but ignore that!
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,544
Based on the responses I've seen here, it's not an assumption that people don't know how kickstarter works. A lot of people here don't know how kickstarter works. It's not preordering anything. You're not buying anything. You're giving money to someone to work on a project. As an incentive to donate to the project, they give you rewards based on how much you give them.
If you donated $30, you got access to the game; if you donated $160, then they give you digital items when the project is completed. Not a single one of those tiers mention a season pass. That content is considered outside of what was promised to you as a result of donating to the project. You will not be getting the retail version of the game. You will be getting a physical copy that is exclusive to certain backers.

Backers will be getting their own bonuses similar to the retail version of the pre-order bonuses. Backers will be receiving both Steam copies and EGS copies of the game.

The only thing that people could argue is that a disc with the EGS launcher is not a copy of the game, but people are largely complaining about things that they were not promised when they gave money to fund the project.
Hey maybe you should tell Ys Net this, because if that's true then they don't actually need to offer refunds.

Of maybe your post is reductive, and ignores other significant elements of what is happening here.
 

chumshot

Member
Jun 15, 2019
7
Hey maybe you should tell Ys Net this, because if that's true then they don't actually need to offer refunds.

Of maybe your post is reductive, and ignores other significant elements of what is happening here.
They don't need to offer refunds. They're doing it out of good will for people who assumed certain things were going to be given alongside their reward.

E: Also, please let me know what people are upset about other than the PC physical copy, the pre-order bonus, and EGS/Steam store split. I'd very much like to know.
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,544
They don't need to offer refunds. They're doing it out of good will for people who assumed certain things were going to be given alongside their reward.
I think that's a slight misreading, they didn't initially want to offer refunds, it was only in the face of massive backlash that they were shamed into offering refunds.

But you're right that these discussions exist to test the bounds of the extremely limited desire within Ys Net to foster goodwill from their backers.

That offering backers the preorder bonus is beyond their desire to foster goodwill with their backers is exactly what people are reacting negatively to.
 

Zafir

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,800
Based on the responses I've seen here, it's not an assumption that people don't know how kickstarter works. A lot of people here don't know how kickstarter works. It's not preordering anything. You're not buying anything. You're giving money to someone to work on a project. As an incentive to donate to the project, they give you rewards based on how much you give them.
If you donated $30, you got access to the game; if you donated $160, then they give you digital items when the project is completed. Not a single one of those tiers mention a season pass. That content is considered outside of what was promised to you as a result of donating to the project. You will not be getting the retail version of the game. You will be getting a physical copy that is exclusive to certain backers.

Backers will be getting their own bonuses similar to the retail version of the pre-order bonuses. Backers will be receiving both Steam copies and EGS copies of the game.

The only thing that people could argue is that a disc with the EGS launcher is not a copy of the game, but people are largely complaining about things that they were not promised when they gave money to fund the project.
Did you even continue reading the rest of the post which you cut off? Did you even read the rest of the thread?

At least read this.
I don't think you really get why this was an issue. This is more than just people being annoyed at not getting the pre-order bonus. I don't think anyone here actually cares about the shitty jacket, or the rubbish scroll, the reason people are pissed off because of the sheer lack of care they have for their backers. They poured salt into an already large wound.

People are already pissed off after what happened with the EGS debacle. I backed for a PC physical copy which I'm not going to properly get anymore because EGS doesn't support installing from disk(and before you ask, I don't have fast internet, so yes I like disk copies thank you very much). The trial ended up being a lie too, they specified "be the first of anyone to play it", tell that to all the press people who played it at e3. Now they don't even care enough to give said backers a measily code for a scroll and a jacket?

The fact it's such a tiny insignificant pre-order bonus if anything just proves the point, it wouldn't even cost them much to give it to backers, but they just don't care at all.

People are tired of being walked all over by Deep Silver.
This isn't just people complaining they aren't getting some dumb pre-order rewards, and I don't even know why you're mentioning the season pass because the majority of people here are acknolwedging that they don't need to offer it.
 

ParsnipForest

Member
Oct 27, 2017
314
Australia
And where exactly would it be without backers?
No where, of course -- like I said, the game needed to be Kickstarted to exist -- but with backer support alone the game would've sucked -- that's just a fact. Do you honestly think the situation would've been better for backers if Shenmue III just came out when YS Net ran out of money? Again, no one wanted to publish this game. Sometimes you've got to accept the good with the bad, and if "the bad" is not getting some throwaway preorder content, I'll happily take it (yes yes, the Epic stuff -- for those people there are refunds).
 

chumshot

Member
Jun 15, 2019
7
That offering backers the preorder bonus is beyond their desire to foster goodwill with their backers is exactly what people are reacting negatively to.
And I think this is the reason people are misplacing their outrage. Kickstarter backers and Slacker backers will both be getting unique in game bonuses for helping fund the game.
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,544
By 505 I meant Deep Silver. I was thinking of Bloodstained for some reason. Point still stands though.
It doesn't.

If Ys Net cared about their backers, they would have ensured that any deal they signed with any publisher or partner would have provisions to ensure that their backers would be fully taken care of.
 

morningbus

Member
Oct 31, 2017
196
it's amazing how so many people can pass the buck

it's not their fault! it's these other people's fault! yeah the first people hired them but ignore that!
I have it on authority that Deep Silver hired a SHADOW TEAM of ELITE CODERS to infiltrate the YSnet offices, create the preorder assets, and program them in the game.

Then, whenever a doe-eyed YSnet employee stumbles upon their handiwork, SLEEPER AGENTS disguised as OFFICE FURNITURE tranquilize them and bring them to a FACILITY to have their short term memory WIPED.

This process inadvertently delayed the game a year or so, but I think we can all agree it was worth it to have inconsequential digital items hung just outside our grasp for no other reason than fuck you, I'm Mr. Business and this is how capitalism works and pay no attention to my pedophile cousin.
 

bsigg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,230
It doesn't.

If Ys Net cared about their backers, they would have ensured that any deal they signed with any publisher or partner would have provisions to ensure that their backers would be fully taken care of.
I mean, you're just adding to my point. The backers are not considered revenue in Deep Silver's eyes and clearly Ys Net is being forced to deal with that fact. Pre-order incentives are meant to bring more people in at the full priced product, something the majority of backers are coming in under.

There could easily be an argument for backers over X amount as something Ys Net covers but again, none of those backers are money to the publisher of this product.
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,544
I'm going to need some help understanding this. I thought everyone was upset that people weren't getting a preorder bonus
If you're not going to read my posts I'm not sure why you want me to explain anything else.

I mean, you're just adding to my point. The backers are not considered revenue in Deep Silver's eyes and clearly Ys Net is being forced to deal with that fact. Pre-order incentives are meant to bring more people in at the full priced product, something the majority of backers are coming in under.

There could easily be an argument for backers over X amount as something Ys Net covers but again, none of those backers are money to the publisher of this product.
"Forced"?

Are you suggesting that Deep Silver made Ys Net sign the publishing deal at gunpoint? Or was it a publishing contract that they voluntarily entered into?
 
Oct 30, 2017
1,387
I have it on authority that Deep Silver hired a SHADOW TEAM of ELITE CODERS to infiltrate the YSnet offices, create the preorder assets, and program them in the game.

Then, whenever a doe-eyed YSnet employee stumbles upon their handiwork, SLEEPER AGENTS disguised as OFFICE FURNITURE tranquilize them and bring them to a FACILITY to have their short term memory WIPED.

This process inadvertently delayed the game a year or so, but I think we can all agree it was worth it to have inconsequential digital items hung just outside our grasp for no other reason than fuck you, I'm Mr. Business and this is how capitalism works and pay no attention to my pedophile cousin.
“Pedophile cousin”?
 

bsigg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,230
"Forced"?

Are you suggesting that Deep Silver made Ys Net sign the publishing deal at gunpoint? Or was it a publishing contract that they voluntarily entered into?
They very clearly signed a deal with either conceding backers don't get those incentives or simply didn't care to figure it out.
 
Oct 30, 2017
1,387
This legitimately made me lol.
I'm the same as you mate. It's hard to tell what people are really angry about in here when posts like that are getting thrown about.
He also said PS4 backers deserve refunds because the game was delayed and maybe those backers have since bought a PC and want to play it on the PC, but can’t enjoy the game because of Epic. They’re not really arguing in good faith at this point.
 

Jebusman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,307
Halifax, NS
Said Jebusman, as he posted on a video game forum himself.
Because I'm currently sitting at a desk at home with the time to type something. The first thing I typed in this very thread in fact.

They might not be.

I'm not sure what's so difficult to understand about that?

But sure, repeatedly claiming they're arguing in bad faith is "definitely" the reason they stopped posting.

Like, you just seem like you want to be an asshole here
 

Resilient

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,149
Because I'm currently sitting at a desk at home with the time to type something. The first thing I typed in this very thread in fact.

They might not be.

I'm not sure what's so difficult to understand about that?
lmao what is happening rn?

check the time stamps #582 and #583

thank you for your absolutely fantastic contribution to this thread so far. getting involved in the discussion of 3 other posters with such amazing content. truly, thanks. lmao.🤡
 

Demacabre

Member
Nov 20, 2017
2,001
If you learned anything from this thread it is that a kickstarter is not a pre order but buying into an idea that may or may not happen and you should feel lucky that something materialized. In other words, Kickstarter is like a prayer that you pay for, and the opposite side could answer and you only get exactly what you paid for.... maybe. Unless Epic gets involved. Then all bets are off. Smart people knew this already and everyone else is a rube. But if you are a true fan, you don't care about being a rube and just happy with anything... and that is also smart. Stop being entitled. Drink your milk. Stay in school.

(yes, sarcasm. I mean plain milk sucks. #chocolatemilk4life)
 
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Lothars

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,148
This legitimately made me lol.
I'm the same as you mate. It's hard to tell what people are really angry about in here when posts like that are getting thrown about.
Its because you refuse to comprehend but your sure like to accuse backers of being entitled.
you think it's fair that even if you backed PS4 and you are entirely unaffected by the transition from Steam to EGS, that you should still be entitled to a refund, even though you are going to get what you backed?
Yes because i don't have any faith in them, if I want a refund I should get it especially after they have treated backers. your points continue to be nonsense.

He also said PS4 backers deserve refunds because the game was delayed and maybe those backers have since bought a PC and want to play it on the PC, but can’t enjoy the game because of Epic. They’re not really arguing in good faith at this point.
you haven't argued in good faith at all but you sure want to blame backers.
 

TrojanAg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,030
As a backer, I gave them my money just to help make this game happen. I never expected anything beyond just the game.
 

Resilient

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,149
Its because you refuse to comprehend but your sure like to accuse backers of being entitled.

Yes because i don't have any faith in them, if I want a refund I should get it especially after they have treated backers. You seem not to know what your talking about and your points continue to be nonsense.
what am I failing to comprehend exactly?

faith in them for what? the game is still coming out. just because you want a refund doesn't mean you are gonna get it lol that's not how Kickstarter works. I know exactly what I'm talking about. I think you are a bit misguided on this topic and it'd be worth doing a bit more reading.

here, let me help you:

"At the same time, backers must understand that Kickstarter is not a store. When you back a project, you’re helping create something new — not ordering something that already exists. "


What is a creator obligated to do once their project is funded?

When a project is successfully funded, the creator is responsible for completing the project and fulfilling each reward. Their fundamental obligation to backers is to finish all the work that was promised. Once a creator has done so, they’ve fulfilled their obligation to their backers.
Creators are also expected to regularly update backers on their project’s progress and to notify them of any delays or roadblocks that may impact on their estimated delivery time. We expect creators to be open and honest with their backers.
Once a creator has finished all the work that was promised, they’ve fulfilled their obligation to their backers.
At the same time, backers must understand that Kickstarter is not a store. When you back a project, you’re helping create something new — not ordering something that already exists. There’s a chance something could happen that prevents the creator from being able to finish the project as promised. If you have specific questions about the status of a project, please don't hesitate to reach out to the project creator. To message them:
  1. Visit the project page
  2. Click on the creator's profile image, found to the left of the project’s name
  3. This will open up their bio page where you can click the "Contact me" link and send them a message.
If a creator is absolutely unable to complete the project and fulfill rewards, they must make every reasonable effort to find another way of bringing the project to a satisfying conclusion for their backers. For more information, see Section 4 of our Terms of Use.