Shenmue 3 Kickstarter Backers will not receive preorder/Deluxe Edition bonuses

ianpm31

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,974
And what has that got to do with it?
Even before the Epic deal nonsense their are people who not only dislike Shenmue but HATE Shenmue. They hates it's existence and bash it at all costs. Never quite understood the hate it gets from mostly the west. Jim Sterling made a video about how Shenmue HD (20 yr old port) was the worst game ever created and even after that he doubled down and mocked Shenmue fans with his "Commentocracy" video. The KS could be ran flawlessly and the guy would find a way to bash it anyways. I hope he's proud of bashing a unique IP while he plays his standard run of the mill recycled games.
 

Lothars

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,148
your arguments in this thread literally amount to "no u". seriously, go back and read them haha.
my argument has always been the treatment of backers is not acceptable and refunds are the bare minimum they need to offer but you came into this thread shitting on backers and your argument continues to be backers don't deserve anything because that's what kickstarter is but it's a nonsense argument that doesn't touch reality. This was a very successful kickstarter and what's being asked from backers is fair.
 

SomaXD

Member
Oct 27, 2017
557
I spent a lot of money on the Kickstarter and this doesn’t bother me at all. A season pass wasn’t part of the campaign.

Why some people are looking for any reason possible to put down Shenmue III is beyond me, and the negativity is becoming toxic.

I can’t wait to just enjoy the game.
This mentality is fucking weird to me. Yeah you backed a game to be made... a complete game... not a broken up into seasons game... but youre okay with the game you backed being broken up and sold to you again... wtf?
 

Resilient

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,149
my argument has always been the treatment of backers is not acceptable and refunds are the bare minimum they need to offer. Your argument continues to be backers don't deserve anything because that's what kickstarter is but it's a nonsense argument that doesn't touch reality. This was a very successful kickstarter and what's being asked from backers is fair.
The game is still coming out. If you read the link I posted you will see that they are still fulfilling their Kickstarter obligations, hence, nothing to see here.

Backers deserve what they backed, which they're getting - the game, and whatever tier rewards are associated with their backing level.
It would be nice to get more, but they aren't obligated to provide it.

"refunds are the bare minimum" are you being serious right now? if refunds are the bare minimum, then what else do they need to be doing here?

Even before the Epic deal nonsense their are people who not only dislike Shenmue but HATE Shenmue. They hates it's existence and bash it at all costs. Never quite understood the hate it gets from mostly the west. Jim Sterling made a video about how Shenmue HD (20 yr old port) was the worst game ever created and even after that he doubled down and mocked Shenmue fans with his "Commentocracy" video. The KS could be ran flawlessly and the guy would find a way to bash it anyways. I hope he's proud of bashing a unique IP while he plays his standard run of the mill recycled games.
Jim Sterling doesn't play games, he just shits on them.
 

CryptiK

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,706
RIP the chances of Shenmue 4. Final nail in the coffin will be when the game turns out complete turd.
 

s_mirage

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,013
Birmingham, UK
Even before the Epic deal nonsense their are people who not only dislike Shenmue but HATE Shenmue. They hates it's existence and bash it at all costs. Never quite understood the hate it gets from mostly the west. Jim Sterling made a video about how Shenmue HD (20 yr old port) was the worst game ever created and even after that he doubled down and mocked Shenmue fans with his "Commentocracy" video. The KS could be ran flawlessly and the guy would find a way to bash it anyways. I hope he's proud of bashing a unique IP while he plays his standard run of the mill recycled games.
I loved Shenmue 1+2, but I think the negative reactions some people have are understandable.

In the ~15 years between their original release on the Dreamcast and the recent re-releases, the games have been overhyped as near-flawless masterpieces. In some ways the games were masterpieces: for the time they were incredibly detailed, atmospheric, had an amazing soundtrack, offered an experience quite unlike anything else available, and for westerners offered a feeling of what Japan and Hong Kong might have been like in the '80s. They were always flawed though, significantly so, and were never universally loved. Shenmue has a special place in my heart due to its uniqueness, its atmosphere, and where I was in my life when the games were released. That being said, even to me the flaws have become more grating over time, and some of those flaws could have been avoided when the games were originally released.

Now imagine for a second that you're someone who's been told of these near-perfect games that most people didn't get to play. For years you've heard all the hype, and now you're finally getting to play them over a decade after their original release. The tech's no longer impressive so you have to judge the games on their own merits. You're met with clunky controls, a lot of waiting around killing time though there isn't much side content (compared to related modern games), repetition, not to mention the meme worthy dialogue and truly horrific voice acting in the English versions. Some gameplay elements that were praised at the time seem dated too; the detail that the game was lauded for is either commonplace now or feels a little superfluous (for example you can open every drawer but there's nothing in most of them).

Yes, I still love the games despite the flaws, and they will click with some new players too, but if they don't the obvious response to something so hyped turning out to be so flawed is going to be mockery.

Shenmue always was polarising, it just seems like a lot of fans have forgotten that over time.
 
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Akira86

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,626
Exactly! Kickstarter is not a “pre-order” system.

It’s about helping them make a game and if they do you get what’s in your Reward Tier.
but what i don't want is a glorified thumbdrive in a box with EGS.exe on it which is what they're giving me.
That's not a reward, that's punishment for trusting Yu Suzuki.
 

Kuma Bear

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,376
Japan
Even before the Epic deal nonsense their are people who not only dislike Shenmue but HATE Shenmue. They hates it's existence and bash it at all costs. Never quite understood the hate it gets from mostly the west. Jim Sterling made a video about how Shenmue HD (20 yr old port) was the worst game ever created and even after that he doubled down and mocked Shenmue fans with his "Commentocracy" video. The KS could be ran flawlessly and the guy would find a way to bash it anyways. I hope he's proud of bashing a unique IP while he plays his standard run of the mill recycled games.
People don't hate Shenmue, there was a lot of misinformation about how the game was being funded which irked people. For example, the belief that Sony was funding development of the game despite a Kickstarter being launched. The people who believed this felt that Yu Suzuki and Sony were cheating fans out of their money by holding the franchise hostage. You and I know that to not be the case but I remember after that particular E3 it was a belief that stuck around for a long time.

Also, I think Yu Suzuki needs to be realistic about his ability to deliver the full Shenmue experience. Shenmue 3 is going to be fairly niche, it looks and plays like a Shenmue game which is great for us fans but quite likely a barrier for many people who want a game that feels more modern. As a result, I can't imagine this game selling enough for Yu Suzuki to make his fourth or fifth installments of the game. He has an opportunity here to provide some closure to fans and finally end the story but he's not doing that.
 

TAJ

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,095
I hated Shenmue so much that I paid $175 for Shenmue 3 at a time when I was broke as fuck.

Exactly! Kickstarter is not a “pre-order” system.

It’s about helping them make a game and if they do you get what’s in your Reward Tier.
If you pay for the game (or just reserve it) one minute before midnight the night before the game goes on sale then you pre-ordered. Jesus Christ.
 

Shaneus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,583
When I pledged my $100 years ago the AUD was above the USD but now the dollerydoo is in the toilet, if I get a refund I get almost double my money back.

I can't wait to cancel!
Just quietly, I'm in the same boat and kinda relieved too. But even if our dollar wasn't in the toilet, I'd still be getting a refund. Fuck this noise.
 

Walnut

Member
Nov 2, 2017
286
Austin, TX
Exactly! Kickstarter is not a “pre-order” system.

It’s about helping them make a game and if they do you get what’s in your Reward Tier.
I'm glad this was perfectly clear to everyone in the infancy of KickStarter, and hindsight plays absolutely zero role into your coming to this conclusion!

Do I need to put the /s i feel like that was already dripping in sarcasm
 

El Crono

Member
Oct 27, 2017
246
Mexico
One day people will understand that Kickstarter is NOT a preorder system. You invest in a project and in the best case you get a return of your investment (the perk you choose for the amount you backed). Like any investment it comes with a risk, and you risk the project falling and never seeing your returns, or the project changes through development and you don't get exactly what you were promised.

In this case, sadly, they'll get exactly what they "paid" for and nothing more.
 

AwesomeSauce

Member
Oct 25, 2017
203
As a kickstarter backer I don’t expect the season pass to come with my copy, but i expect the preorder dlc to be included. If that’s the case it isn’t then i am disappointed.

I have a feeling the preorder stuff is already included since usually first print copies come with all that preorder dlc whether you preorder or not.

Also, i think they should include the season pass to those who pledged $80 and more as a gesture of good faith.
 

Wulfric

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,623
If you pay for the game (or just reserve it) one minute before midnight the night before the game goes on sale then you pre-ordered. Jesus Christ.
This is incorrect. You could have tossed them a bone at the $5 tier. I'm not kidding, that's a tier that gave people access to polls and surveys.
 
Oct 29, 2017
44
This mentality is fucking weird to me. Yeah you backed a game to be made... a complete game... not a broken up into seasons game... but youre okay with the game you backed being broken up and sold to you again... wtf?
You have the wrong perspective on what a Kickstarter is. You view it as a consumer preordering a game. On kickstarter you’re not a consumer, you’re are providing capital to a project - essentially you are micropublishing. This comes with risk and reward (usually you get the game plus some physical reward). This is a really important point about kickstarter: You are not preordering!

While I don’t think I dont think it is especially smart to not include the season pass for backers from a marketing/longterm customer relationship perspective, you are being provided with the rewards you were promised.
 

SomaXD

Member
Oct 27, 2017
557
You have the wrong perspective on what a Kickstarter is. You view it as a consumer preordering a game. On kickstarter you’re not a consumer, you’re are providing capital to a project - essentially you are micropublishing. This comes with risk and reward (usually you get the game plus some physical reward). This is a really important point about kickstarter: You are not preordering!

While I don’t think I dont think it is especially smart to not include the season pass for backers from a marketing/longterm customer relationship perspective, you are being provided with the rewards you were promised.
No, i understand what it is... i never mentioned preordering... im saying backing a project is giving funds to get a complete game made. That theyre offerring seasons or "season pass" makes me feel like they arent delivering that completed game... and instead are trying to sell portions of a project i gave them Money for, back to me later under guise of season pass bullshit.
 

Sayuz

Member
Apr 29, 2019
17
Why does this game even have a season pass?
Probably so they can sell "Kickstarter exclusive" rewards like the international phone card item that lets you call characters from past games to everyone else. I'm sure there will be other things included, but I have no doubt that people that backed the higher tier rewards (like myself) will be getting doubly screwed over when half the season pass consists of things were were entitled to to begin with.

With the way everything else about this game is being handled, I won't be surprised. And I say this as someone who had a ton of faith in the game, and was excited to make my first (and only) project I supported by backiny it day one. But over time my trust in the project had been eroded, and I feel like I would have been better off keeping my money and waiting to pre-order at somewhere like Best Buy. Ironic, considering the game wouldn't even exist if it weren't for backers like me, but I guess they have my money now (along with the other backers + a dozen other funding sources), so I suppose it doesn't matter.
 

Ganado

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,032
This is what Yacht Club had as a stretch goal:



Instead of that, they've basically been working on three new campaigns with remixed music, new level design, stories, hubs, challenges... they've basically been working on delivering that for five years and they would have been justified in charging more, but they didn't. Likewise, Team Cherry set a stretch goal for a "second playable character with their own unique quests and abilities". They're now giving away a full game to all backers instead.
Sure, but they were the one that extended the stretch goal to be something totally different, probably after it sold much more than a million, so that they had a budget to make a spinoff that they could sell. Same with Shovel Knight, if it wasn't successful, I doubt they'd put this much effort into it, but it pumps up the package so that they can set a higher price on it and that's awesome. I mean, it kinda would be weird if they made the Hornet character in Hollow Knight playable in the standard game but then made a seperate game with a new campaign. Better to just make a new game if the game is popular and give it for free to the 2000 or so backers as the promise of a new playable character. It will probably sell much more than that!
 
Oct 29, 2017
44
No, i understand what it is... i never mentioned preordering... im saying backing a project is giving funds to get a complete game made. That theyre offerring seasons or "season pass" makes me feel like they arent delivering that completed game... and instead are trying to sell portions of a project i gave them Money for, back to me later under guise of season pass bullshit.
I see. Usually season pass content is developed after the main game is finished/when development resources steadily become available at the tail end of production. I will give you that season pass is a bit weird in the context of a singleplayer game, so I can understand why you would feel that way. However, I don’t believe they are “removing portions” of the game, just to sell them back to you. I guess its a trust thing: Do you believe that the publisher/dev uses scummy tactics to get every last penny, or is it a case of not having enough resources to include all the ideas that the developer wants to implement? If anything communication could br handled much better.
 

Siresly

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,157
It's fair enough to continue criticizing Ys Net for not looking out for the interests of the people who believed in, supported them and made it possible for them to realize their vision, but this pre-order stuff is purely symbolic.

Even if Deep Silver were to stop being petty, greedy assholes and go "fine, have it", it wouldn't matter or change anything.
If this is pouring salt in the wound, then the wound was a chainsaw cut to the neck.
Giving us the season pass would've been some manner of attempt at gluing our heads back on, but Deep Silver absolutely will not ever do that.

They don't care about repairing the damage they caused to Ys Net's reputation. They have active contempt for us, we're solely an obstacle. They just want to make the most money possible off of our original investment. After screwing backers to secure their revenue, saying "nothing to do with us", dumping the fallout on Ys Net, and not taking responsibility for refunds or any rectifying action at all, they will take that Epic moneybag and put it into whatever they reckon could make them the most money. This will not be Shenmue 4. And if it is, I'm not fucking buying it.

I am hugely disappointed in and bummed out by Ys Net, but Deep Silver can go fuck off a cliff.
Also worth mentioning that Deep Silver is owned by pedophile Nazi terrorist friends THQ Nordic.
 

Taranis

Member
Oct 27, 2017
185
Exactly! Kickstarter is not a “pre-order” system.

It’s about helping them make a game and if they do you get what’s in your Reward Tier.
They should be able to throw in a season pass or preorder bonuses then, right? Especially for higher reward tiers. It's not a preorder system after all. This doesn't have to work like a preorder. These are people who got the game off the ground, they didn't just reserve a copy of the game. Why should people who spent hundreds of dollars have to buy the game again to get content that wouldn't exist if not for them?
 
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Oct 30, 2017
1,387
Can't you usually just buy a season pass or DLC content without buying a game again? I really think the person who responded just doesn't know what they're taking about. Their PR people have been horrible since the first day of the Kickstarter.
 

Maligna

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,871
Canada
I can't believe Oculus gave their development kit backers a free retail version of the Rift worth upwards of $700 as a gesture of good will and thanks, but Ysnet won't give us digital preorder bonuses that cost literally nothing.

Don't they want to try to get back even a little bit of the good will that they've thrown away?
 

Lothars

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,148
I can't believe Oculus gave their development kit backers a free retail version of the Rift worth upwards of $700 as a gesture of good will and thanks, but Ysnet won't give us digital preorder bonuses that cost literally nothing.

Don't they want to try to get back even a little bit of the good will that they've thrown away?
Of course not, they don't care about the backers at all, they got our money and now it's just a formality to put up with people until the game is out.
 
Oct 30, 2017
1,387
I think the number of people willing to play a game where you just walk & talk, and occasionally fight, people is much bigger than it was in 1999/2000, to be fair. I don't think that's gonna be an issue for most people.
 

z1ggy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,390
Argentina
I think the number of people willing to play a game where you just walk & talk, and occasionally fight, people is much bigger than it was in 1999/2000, to be fair. I don't think that's gonna be an issue for most people.
It comes out the same month as:

Pokemon
Death Stranding
Doom eternal
Star Wars

Im pretty sure it will flop harder than in 1999/2000 and i think reviews will destroy the game.
 
Oct 30, 2017
1,387
I didn't claim otherwise. I meant that I'm not worried about people, specifically backers, discovering Shenmue is verrrrrrrrrry slow. It's not that unusual these days for people to get into slow games.
 

RoninZ

Member
Oct 27, 2017
368
Not that it's any reason to defend YSNet but I would assume that their deal with Deep Silver has alot to do with this whole thing. DS most likely doing this to make as much profit as possible. Still YSNet should have known better especially when they did the kickstarter that this backlash would be coming
 

z1ggy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,390
Argentina
Not that it's any reason to defend YSNet but I would assume that their deal with Deep Silver has alot to do with this whole thing. DS most likely doing this to make as much profit as possible. Still YSNet should have known better especially when they did the kickstarter that this backlash would be coming
What makes people believe Ys Net/Yu Suzuki didnt know where they were getting into? I mean, Yu Suzuki launched a fucking KS on a E3 Sony Showcase.
 

OnionPowder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,911
Orlando, FL
Not that it's any reason to defend YSNet but I would assume that their deal with Deep Silver has alot to do with this whole thing. DS most likely doing this to make as much profit as possible. Still YSNet should have known better especially when they did the kickstarter that this backlash would be coming
That's one of my big complaints. They passed off the handling of what is supposed to be a passion project to a corporation that doesn't give a fuck.

The disparity between the 2 ways the projects were handled, from initial crowdfunding to closer to release, is a huge turn off
 

Descendant

Member
Nov 2, 2017
295
If I'm excluded from a few throwaway pre ordered items to get a game that has even more features and content than what was orginally promised based on the funds generated from the Kickstarter, then I'll gladly not take the pre ordered items.

Thanks to extra funding the game has managed to reach goals that were never reached, so essentially we are getting like 90% of the stretch goals without even reaching them, and they didn't need to do that in the first place. They could have just taken the extra money, and release what was promised on the content side, but they opted to make more than what was asked of them.
 

Clive

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,039
Feels like this was backed by a hype train rather than fans. Shenmue fans have always been so humble and passionate and now we're finally seeing the third game and it looks like an amazing evolution of what Shenmue 1 and 2 were and all these threads end up with is bitching and moaning. Refunds? We're getting Shenmue 3 after over 15 god damn years. We dreamed and we begged for 15 years and thanks to the passion of the fans and Yu Suzuki it finally got made. They could switch my copy to a hypothetical 3DS version and I'd still be positively thrilled to play this. It's like people don't even care about the game. I genuinely do not get the pettiness.

Deep Silver? Amazing! More funds to make the game. Epic Games? Maybe this deal can help bring in some millions for Shenmue 4 too?! Keep bringing in the funds, YS. For the sake of Shenmue 3 and Shenmue 4. That's the way I see it. It's a franchise that has struggled immensely to get funded and people whine about how they go about it. Money does not grow on trees.
 

Lakeside

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,864
Feels like this was backed by a hype train rather than fans. Shenmue fans have always been so humble and passionate and now we're finally seeing the third game and it looks like an amazing evolution of what Shenmue 1 and 2 were and all these threads end up with is bitching and moaning. Refunds? We're getting Shenmue 3 after over 15 god damn years. We dreamed and we begged for 15 years and thanks to the passion of the fans and Yu Suzuki it finally got made. They could switch my copy to a hypothetical 3DS version and I'd still be positively thrilled to play this. It's like people don't even care about the game. I genuinely do not get the pettiness.

Deep Silver? Amazing! More funds to make the game. Epic Games? Maybe this deal can help bring in some millions for Shenmue 4 too?! Keep bringing in the funds, YS. For the sake of Shenmue 3 and Shenmue 4. That's the way I see it. It's a franchise that has struggled immensely to get funded and people whine about how they go about it. Money does not grow on trees.
I think it's pretty obvious at this point that the franchise will die with 3 after all these antics.

Either way there are a lot of people that will get PC refunds for a completely valid reason. They don't do business with the Epic store. I'm sure the real fans will play on PS4 if they don't wish to go the PC route after the bait and switch. I know my backer level included both PC and PS4 so I'm eager to get that PC money back.