Shenmue 3 Kickstarter Backers will not receive preorder/Deluxe Edition bonuses

Descendant

Member
Nov 2, 2017
295
Which content are you talking about? The preorder bonus, the season pass, or something else?
I'm talking stretch goals that weren't reached, are now being created in the base game. They didnt need to add any content in the stretch goals that weren't reached, but instead they added nearly 90% of the stretch goals.

Also they originally stated there would only be 50 NPCs to interact with, and then increased it to 500. Stuff like that they have added to the game that was never part of the early plans.
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,544
I'm talking stretch goals that weren't reached, are now being created in the base game. They didnt need to add any content in the stretch goals that weren't reached, but instead they added nearly 90% of the stretch goals.

Also they originally stated there would only be 50 NPCs to interact with, and then increased it to 500. Stuff like that they have added to the game that was never part of the early plans.
Which of that stuff is backer exclusive? Because you're just describing stuff that is in the game for any customer (including customers of the Deep Silver retail version), not stuff that they have done specifically for backers.
 
Oct 30, 2017
1,387
You're free to ignore this thread if you feel there's nothing else to be discussed or it's to "toxic" for you.
Well, the premise of the thread is false and has led to false stories being published to outlets like Destructoid. What purpose does a thread with a false message serve this website?

I’ll happily continue to engage this thread I never called toxic because I’m a backer and have a vested interest in this game. Thanks for the invitation to do otherwise, but I’ll pass.

Everyone in here, including Shaneus, is assuming something and presenting it as fact. Until Ys Net clarifies the situation, you’re spinning your wheels and spreading an unconfirmed narrative far and wide. I invite everyone to reread the message that was sent via private message to a backer and find where it suggests you must purchase two copies of the game to obtain a move scroll and a special outfit.
 

Descendant

Member
Nov 2, 2017
295
Which of that stuff is backer exclusive? Because you're just describing stuff that is in the game for any customer (including customers of the Deep Silver retail version), not stuff that they have done specifically for backers.
I never said it was backer exclusive, the backer exclusives would be whatever tier those backers ended up in, and they should get the stuff they were promised by release.

I'm referring to you saying they are doing the bare minimum, but the base game being well beyond what was initially promised should prove that isnt the case. YSnet could have easily just released the game with less areas and the 50 NPCs, and they would have legally met their obligations, but they decided to make the game more expansive than originally planned.
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,544
I never said it was backer exclusive, the backer exclusives would be whatever tier those backers ended up in, and they should get the stuff they were promised by release.

I'm referring to you saying they are doing the bare minimum, but the base game being well beyond what was initially promised should prove that isnt the case. YSnet could have easily just released the game with less areas and the 50 NPCs, and they would have legally met their obligations, but they decided to make the game more expansive than originally planned.
You responded to me saying they are doing the bare minimum for backers by describing stuff that all players will get. I am well aware that they are not doing the bare minimum to satisfy Deep Silver, I said that they are doing the bare minimum for backers.
 

morningbus

Member
Oct 31, 2017
196
So now that we’ve established their communication mentions nothing about DLC, what are we arguing about? Aren’t there a dozen other Shenmue Kickstarter threads?
We've been told that we need to be hyper literal with what is promised with this Kickstarter lest we get a lecture about late stage capitalism.

We're just taking what they say at face value. They've made a distinction between Deep Silver-backed preorders and YSnet-obligated Kickstarter and slacker backer copies.
 

Descendant

Member
Nov 2, 2017
295
You responded to me saying they are doing the bare minimum for backers by describing stuff that all players will get. I am well aware that they are not doing the bare minimum to satisfy Deep Silver, I said that they are doing the bare minimum for backers.
But again I ask how is putting in even more content than what was originally promised in the base game doing the bare minimum for backers? They didnt need to make the game any more expansive, but they did it anyways.
 

SomaXD

Member
Oct 27, 2017
557
But again I ask how is putting in even more content than what was originally promised in the base game doing the bare minimum for backers? They didnt need to make the game any more expansive, but they did it anyways.
Because... giving perorder customers dlc/season pass but not backers is bare minimum. Youre entire argument is moot, this whole thread is about them giving preorder customers a bunch of shit but not the backers... what does extra content being made have anything to with that?
 

Resilient

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,149
Then report it instead of dismissing people's real concerns over multiple shenmue 3 threads.
resorting to the report button is better than engaging with people on a discussion forum?
...how about no scotty.

if the premise of the thread is false and that is being pointed out ... that's not dismissing peoples concerns. that's explaining that those concerns are unfounded!
 

Walnut

Member
Nov 2, 2017
286
Austin, TX
resorting to the report button is better than engaging with people on a discussion forum?
...how about no scotty.

if the premise of the thread is false and that is being pointed out ... that's not dismissing peoples concerns. that's explaining that those concerns are unfounded!
The problem is is he came in with an attitude, "well I can't believe that nobody has seen this yet!!! everyone is probably going to ignore this though haha", had the reasoning behind why people are interpreting the message the way they are explained to him, ignored it, then proclaimed "well I don't see anything about that now that we have established that this entire thing is false can we stop discussing this now?"

It's the actual opposite of discussion; an active attempt to make people stop posting.
 

Resilient

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,149
The problem is is he came in with an attitude, "well I can't believe that nobody has seen this yet!!! everyone is probably going to ignore this though haha", had the reasoning behind why people are interpreting the message the way they are explained to him, ignored it, then proclaimed "well I don't see anything about that now that we have established that this entire thing is false can we stop discussing this now?"

It's the actual opposite of discussion; an active attempt to make people stop posting.
bell wood has been posting in this thread for a while now.
every time somebody addresses these "genuine concerns" they get told to shut up, or that they're wrong. no matter how much information you present to explain otherwise. it's tiring. i know from experience. people should not be advocating reporting posts like those. that is just weak.
 

Lothars

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,148
bell wood has been posting in this thread for a while now.
every time somebody addresses these "genuine concerns" they get told to shut up, or that they're wrong. no matter how much information you present to explain otherwise. it's tiring. i know from experience. people should not be advocating reporting posts like those. that is just weak.
Whats weak is exactly what you and bell wood have done this entire thread present less than valid information and accuse anyone you disagree with as being entitled and that backers should just roll over and take it.
 

Resilient

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,149
Whats weak is exactly what you and bell wood have done this entire thread present less than valid information and accuse anyone you disagree with as being entitled and that backers should just roll over and take it.
I have presented you with valid information regarding the way Kickstarter works from their very website and you still refute it. Refer to post #605 in this very thread. A post which you IGNORED because it proved you wrong. Yet here you are coming at me again telling me I am spreading less than valid information? PLEASE.

You completely lack the ability or willingness to understand what I am saying and you continue to spread false information. How you are not banned for trolling at this point, I will never know.

You have presented nothing except your opinion and I have pointed out to you multiple times, that your perception of the situation does not match the reality of it. That is your problem. You've added absolutely nothing productive to this thread except the continuous spread of false information.
 

Walnut

Member
Nov 2, 2017
286
Austin, TX
Ok so, from the top, since some people still don't seem to understand.

Here is the relevant line from customer service that has people antsy:
Standard and deluxe versions released through retail sales are not affiliated with the crowdfunding campaign, so will not be included with backer pledges, however, they will be available for sale separately.
So what we can factually deduce from this statement without any degree of uncertainty (save for a representative being misinformed) is that the Kickstarter version of the game and the retail version of the game are two separate versions. The representative also says in no uncertain terms that the Kickstarter versions have exclusive content that is not available in the retail versions (not quoted above but available in the OP)

What has people on edge is a certain piece of that statement.
however, they will be available for sale separately
Why would the representative even bother to mention this if there weren't some reason for backers to purchase the retail version? You can chalk it up to the representative being misinformed, or just plain poor wording where maybe they meant to highlight the fact that the Kickstarter version won't be available for sale on the open market, but the use of the word "however" leaves a lot of room to interpret the statement as the retail version has content that backer versions won't have. That's a far cry from "false information." I'd say it's more like "everyone is jumpy about Shenmue right now and a representative of Ys Net released a vague statement that added fuel to the fire." Call it what it is, you know?
 

Akumasama

Member
Nov 8, 2017
476
Italy
Gotta love how this is evolving lol
I mean I dunno, I can see the Season Pass being left out. Not happy about it but I can sorta condone that.
Preorder bonus though is really stupid. What's more "preorder" than paying 3 years in advance through a kickstarter?

Do we know what exactely the preorder bonus will be btw?
 

Ingueferroque

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
10,318
resorting to the report button is better than engaging with people on a discussion forum?
...how about no scotty.

if the premise of the thread is false and that is being pointed out ... that's not dismissing peoples concerns. that's explaining that those concerns are unfounded!
So you are saying that backers will get the preorder bonus?
 

thefro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,510
I realize that lots of companies/individuals do Kickstarters and can't keep their promises because they underestimate costs/time (sometimes vastly) but anyone doing a Kickstarter is going to be better off overdelivering and pleasantly surprising their backers versus doing things that'll be bad PR and make backers feel like they should have just pre-ordered instead.

I think it's reasonable to expect to get "preorder DLC" when you've backed a game at a significant level years ago.
 

Openrob

Member
Nov 5, 2017
480
I think really this points all points to how having a good publisher/distributor is vital, but also how toxic the video game market can be.

From the PC exclusivity - vividly reminding me of retail store exclusives (e.g GameStop exclusive), to multiple versions of games for the purpose of trying to make more money from one product, to season passes for unannounced content - Shenmue should not have aligned itself with a publisher who is introducing the game to these shoddy market practices.

What happened when people questioned piece meal selling of products, when we laughed at Horse DLC, when Watch Dogs had more versions than Dr Strange had visions of the future.

The practices are simply not ethical and are mostly down to the publisher. I'm almost certain that these decisions did not develop internally at YsNet, but were presented to them by Deep Silver.

A lot of 'controversy' about the game has mostly been down to them. The game itself is generally, impression wise, what people expected and generally backers are happy with how the game is shaping out, minor niggles aside (e.g some animations, that stupid title font, etc), yet it's sometimes labelled as synonymous with examples of the worst Kickstarter projects, which it is not. The game taken by itself is looking to deliver - which sets it above most bloody Kickstarter projects, and additionally is looking to deliver quite well on what it set out to achieve.

I've been excited for the game for over 15 years, and am no less excited than when it was announced at E3 a few years ago. Despite a lot of negative press, every screenshot, or in particular hearing just the first few bars of music, gives me goosebumps.

However, it just seems like a lot of unethical practices are now being embroiled in a Kickstarter project, which by nature really should be the avenue to do away with these practices in the instance.
 

Hucast

Member
Mar 25, 2019
1,987
I hate everything about how the game was handled and stand by my principles for not having myself be treated unfairly, so they lost me with that

But the game looks great and I can't wait to buy the game when it meets what we had initially agreed to.
 

Iwao

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,240
And if they cared about backers, when they were negotiating with their publisher, they would have said "now that we are doing a season pass, can we give our biggest fans and the people that made this game possible the season pass at no extra charge (perhaps only at higher reward tiers), since these are the people that made the game possible in the first place, and we didn't offer them a season pass reward tier".
How do you they didn't try and negotiate things like this with Deep Silver? You can't possibly know, and it's definitely a problem that you're directing blame at people you don't even know are responsible for certain actions. Is a studio inherently responsible for every decision that comes about through publisher support?
 

EloKa

GSP
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
413
Is a studio inherently responsible for every decision that comes about through publisher support?
If you as, an independent studio, decide to add that publisher to your project ... kinda? It's also a misconcept that a developer has no say in a relation with their publisher.
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,544
How do you they didn't try and negotiate things like this with Deep Silver? You can't possibly know, and it's definitely a problem that you're directing blame at people you don't even know are responsible for certain actions. Is a studio inherently responsible for every decision that comes about through publisher support?
Yes of course they are responsible for the outcome of decisions that they voluntarily made. Who else would be responsible?

I know that they did not negotiate these things because the outcome has not been these things. The deal that they negotiated did not result in them taking care of their backers in the ways I mentioned.

Unless you are just denying the reality of the outcome....
 

ianpm31

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,974
Season pass won't be free bc it wasn't planned until DS jumped in with funds and extended the dev of the game but I would wait for an official KS update about retail DLC bonuses.
 

PaulLFC

Member
Oct 27, 2017
763
The season pass not being included I can understand, unless it had been specifically noted in one of the tiers.

The pre-order DLC however - a Kickstarter backer has clearly pre-ordered the game, and committed money to it much earlier than most. Therefore the DLC should be included.

Very poor show once again from YsNet and Deep Silver.
 

Bate

Member
Oct 31, 2017
152
It would be the smart move to include all Shenmue 3 content in the backer version. When people give their money to fund a project on kickstarter, it is suggested that you will receive the whole experience in return for your pledge. It shouldn't matter if Ys.net decided to expand on the scope of the game in the following years. The original backers are the core of what made the game possible in the first place. They deserve the whole thing. Even if that means that same people get it for a bargain because they only paid 29$. They paid a couple of years ago. And since the fullfillment is digital, it won't cost Ysnet a dollar. True, they won't make any extra money of the backers anymore, but they shouldn't have to do that anyway.
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,544
It would be the smart move to include all Shenmue 3 content in the backer version. When people give their money to fund a project on kickstarter, it is suggested that you will receive the whole experience in return for your pledge. It shouldn't matter if Ys.net decided to expand on the scope of the game in the following years. The original backers are the core of what made the game possible in the first place. They deserve the whole thing. Even if that means that same people get it for a bargain because they only paid 29$. They paid a couple of years ago. And since the fullfillment is digital, it won't cost Ysnet a dollar. True, they won't make any extra money of the backers anymore, but they shouldn't have to do that anyway.
Yep. I presume this came about because part of their deal with Deep Silver was predicated on being able to sell season passes/DLC to backers, which Ys Net agreed to without hesitation. Because they see backers as a piggy bank rather than as the very people who made the entire game possible.
 

elyetis

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,640
Yes of course they are responsible for the outcome of decisions that they voluntarily made. Who else would be responsible?

I know that they did not negotiate these things because the outcome has not been these things. The deal that they negotiated did not result in them taking care of their backers in the ways I mentioned.

Unless you are just denying the reality of the outcome....
"At best" we can imagine Deep Silver acting like a con man which lied throught their teeth when making that deal with YSnet. Not that it would exempt YSnet from any fault, but that would make them "victims" too ( for a lack of better word, thought I know the superlative will trigger some ).
But since no communication from them is there to support that theory, official or unofficial ( like say, to a journalist but "protected" by anonymity ), why should we think it's what happened ?
 

morningbus

Member
Oct 31, 2017
196
The inability to present a clear and concise message has really, really hurt the game in the last month or so.

The season pass was stealth announced with the Epic store exclusivity and they obviously had no intention of saying anything about either until their hand was forced. What kind of content does it include? Additional chapters to the story?

I half expect the next announcement to just say, "We hope you're excited to finally have your kangaroo shipped to your home," then radio silence for six weeks.
 

Resilient

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,149
"My post are better than yours."

Now I know for sure you guys are just in these threads to look for a fight against anyone saying anything negative about the topic.
While I never said that, it's true! You've added nothing to this thread so far. You came in just to quote + backseat mod me. and sadly I'm getting sucked into that conversation!

Not out to look for a fight, don't think any of my posts have come across that way. Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they're looking for a fight.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,312
Brooklyn
While I never said that, it's true! You've added nothing to this thread so far. You came in just to quote + backseat mod me. and sadly I'm getting sucked into that conversation!

Not out to look for a fight, don't think any of my posts have come across that way. Just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they're looking for a fight.
Lmao I didn't talk to you till you quoted me, much less backside mod you.

You don't get to decide who is and who isn't adding to the topic. I also don't count dismissing people's concerns as adding to the topic and has as much value as drive by posts. But we're both off topic now.
 
Oct 30, 2017
1,387
I apologize for my arrogant tone. You are more than likely correct the difference between retail and Kickstarter copies implies a difference in content. I just wanted to urge caution since the bad news keeps piling on and I hate to see something spiral out of control based on one message from Ys Net's woeful PR person.
 
Last edited:
Oct 30, 2017
1,387
For what it's worth, this is how they replied to me when I asked for clarification:

Thank you very much for your question. We hope to have more information regarding DLC details in forthcoming updates.

Sincerely,
The Shenmue III Team
Basically, a non-answer. I can either interpret that as they're again going to have to reverse course or they're just buying time and not planning on responding.
 

Resilient

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,149
Lmao I didn't talk to you till you quoted me, much less backside mod you.

You don't get to decide who is and who isn't adding to the topic. I also don't count dismissing people's concerns as adding to the topic and has as much value as drive by posts. But we're both off topic now.
Dismissing the KickStarter FAQ as false information (literally happened in this thread) and claiming YsNet are trying to screw over backers isn’t adding to the topic, which is what I’ve been posting about this whole time...so, how are posters denying the truth adding to this thread? Because they’re not. And it’s causing a lot of negative discourse around shenmue 3 for no good reason. Which fucking blows. You know I can point that out right? Ya need to look up what the word dismissing means. When someone is wrong and you can prove it, they should be called out for it. It’s to the detriment of everybody (them including) to let them keep spreading it just cause.